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> Muslims and dog, Can or cannot hold / touch dog

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Red_rustyjelly
post Dec 17 2019, 11:12 PM

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QUOTE(jagjag @ Dec 17 2019, 06:56 PM)
OK..good clarification..but oso mean that Malaysian muslim is more sensetive lah..others country's muslim is more open...
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is all about politics. here people like to use race card
zeist
post Dec 17 2019, 11:13 PM

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Anjing itu indah
KLthinker91
post Dec 17 2019, 11:21 PM

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QUOTE(aliesterfiend @ Dec 17 2019, 09:52 PM)
Of course they use soap. Actually the romans adopted them from the conquered gallic/germanic tribes, not greeks.
Unlikely because the Gauls and Goths were considered barbarians

More likely the Greeks as the Greeks were considered the educated and classy people of the time and the model of civilisation to be emulated

QUOTE
The bedouins live near deserts. They were not muslims during the prophet's time. The Arabs live in cities/towns where there are water sources. The process of sertu or cleasing is by using water where 1 out of 7 times is water mix with soil.

Arabs never uses sands for cleansing. On the event there are no water, dust can be use for tayammum before prayer. Not related to dogs and sertu.
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But possibly the tradition arose from conditions when there was lack of water?

There would have been times where people went travelling around outside the cities and near the desert also and possibly this is why there are allowances given?
KLthinker91
post Dec 17 2019, 11:22 PM

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QUOTE(Gyazo @ Dec 17 2019, 10:24 PM)
Ok this is weird.
This explaination post got reported 4x times.

Its clearly somebody use his dupe accounts to report the post. tf
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/k are like that

Explanations also they report

Malaysians... one time I was caned in school for explaining too
aliesterfiend
post Dec 18 2019, 01:27 AM

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QUOTE(genecode @ Dec 17 2019, 10:05 PM)
No need to find reason other than God commanded it.
If you layan these ktards, u will end up sinning due to questioning Islamic ways.
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There're reasons for every God's command. Quran does not only ask to do this and that or dont do this and that but puts responsibility on every individual to personally question, analyse and verify (39:18, 17:36, 5:105), calls not to accept or follow anything mindlessly, warning that doing so would lead to eventual interrogation by the course of nature (17:36), describes unquestioning minds as polluted (10:100), demands substantiating arguments with hard evidence to validate a conventional belief (2:111, 4:174, 5:104-105, 8:42, 10:100, 11:17, 17:36, 37:156-157), insists that believing in a ready-made proposition or accepting a popular hypothesis, without deep observation and reasoning, is misguiding (2:170, 5:104, 10:100-101, 31:21, 33:67, 37:69-71) and so on.
daimon
post Dec 18 2019, 01:31 AM

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QUOTE(xarmx @ Dec 17 2019, 06:55 PM)
This one. And its not that hard to clean as per Islam's req. My pants got smelled by a dog before while working, I thought the dog was friendly that's why I did not shoo her off. Later see her nose kinda wet, I went back and dip my pants in some muddy puddle near my house, then wash back with water. Settle.
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dog's nose is wet , cannot dry, sometimes they will lick their nose

as the nose need to keep moisture to function, i guess
daimon
post Dec 18 2019, 01:37 AM

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QUOTE(bukankhadam @ Dec 17 2019, 11:08 PM)
Dogs are cool.
Considered special kind of dirty in islam, but never prohibit interaction with it.
Just need to cuci if got interaction and some DUMB n confusing rule kenot keep as pet.

Everything bout dogs n pigs is just confusing af in islam.
Got some say like dis, some say like dat.
Even the cuci name oso not rly known which one lol. Sertu or samak.

Donno y some muslim so anti dogs until kecam all ppl dat have interaction with dogs, even just a lil bit.
Even vet doktot oso kena in mesia. Bodo gila.
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yeah i followed some animal shelters

usually can see some malays posting dog photos asking for help, definitely will say the malays at their area dislike dogs, and want to report to catch them away

i dont know why believe in god created all things but end up they hating dogs just because of laws


the worse one is some Malays lazy to do cleaning then they choose to hate dog .. doh.gif

shakehead.gif

understand if you may not touch, but you can wear gloves or what, dont like but dont harm

This post has been edited by daimon: Dec 18 2019, 01:41 AM
aliesterfiend
post Dec 18 2019, 01:42 AM

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QUOTE(KLthinker91 @ Dec 17 2019, 11:21 PM)
Unlikely because the Gauls and Goths were considered barbarians

More likely the Greeks as the Greeks were considered the educated and classy people of the time and the model of civilisation to be emulated
But possibly the tradition arose from conditions when there was lack of water?

There would have been times where people went travelling around outside the cities and near the desert also and possibly this is why there are allowances given?
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Greeks considers Romans barbarians and Roman considers Greeks as toga lifting faggots. Romans actually considers everyone not Greek or Romans as barbarians including the eastern civilizations like Persia.

Romans actually staryed using their ultimate weapon, the gladius after encountering them when fighting the 'barbarians' in Spain and using chainmail armour after encountering them against the 'barbarians' in Gaul.

You were right about the allowance. That is why in case of tayammum you can use dirt if there is water to be found. Main purification is still water. My argument is regarding the claim of the scarcity of water in Arabia which is not the case at all.

Regarding the thing with dog's saliva, requirement still to use water with 1/7 time is water mix with soil. I've read somewhere that the method can kill germs that comes from dog's saliva bit I'm really not familiar with scientific journals (not my favorite subject) so I cant guve you the actual source.


aliesterfiend
post Dec 18 2019, 01:45 AM

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QUOTE(howszat @ Dec 17 2019, 10:12 PM)
Soil is full of germs - trust me.

But let's say soil is protective. But nowadays, we have all sorts of medication that are far better.

So, "don't touch dog", and "use soil" are not longer relevant.

So, it is religion? or just practice back then which is no longer relevant to today's world?
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What is religion to you? Sets of rituals or way of life?


Gyazo
post Dec 18 2019, 02:22 AM

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QUOTE(howszat @ Dec 17 2019, 08:27 PM)
So nobody really knows whether this is just the normal practice because of conditions back then, but is no longer relevant today?

So what is it? Religion? Culture? Best practice back then, but no longer applicable today?

Human beings make up a lot of rules over time. It is not clear what is supposed to be religion vs what human being made up.
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I believe on that era.. the dog looks like this.
Anjing kurap.

user posted image

And because of that, its dirty to touch.

And if u touch u need to wash your hand, since on that era their is no dettol handwasher.

The prophet said to use dirt instead.

But come on, why still need to use dirt if we already have dettol handwasher?
Also nowadays most of the dog that we touch have no ringworm (ajing kurap).

Even if we touch, and if we try to wash our hand with dirt, then see our hand through telescope or something, i believe we still can see bunch of germ or ring worm.

Unless we use this...

user posted image


But sometimes.. or most of the times.. muslim are too "lurus bendul" or too "naive".
If the prophet suddenly alive now, i believe he also laugh.

This post has been edited by Gyazo: Dec 18 2019, 02:25 AM
SSJBen
post Dec 18 2019, 02:43 AM

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Dogs also scared to touch. Lelz.
KLthinker91
post Dec 18 2019, 02:45 AM

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QUOTE(aliesterfiend @ Dec 18 2019, 01:42 AM)
Greeks considers Romans barbarians and Roman considers Greeks as toga lifting faggots. Romans actually considers everyone not Greek or Romans as barbarians including the eastern civilizations like Persia.
Bit of a stereotype, although true in some situations

Romans in general had a strong appreciation for Greek knowledge, philosophy and technology, even arts and culture. The upper class Romans were often educated by Greeks.

QUOTE
Romans actually staryed using their ultimate weapon, the gladius after encountering them when fighting the 'barbarians' in Spain and using chainmail armour after encountering them against the 'barbarians' in Gaul.

Well, yes, but that didn't stop them from regarding most Gaulish practices as barbarical

So on balance, it is more likely the Romans copied Greek soap-using practices rather than barbarians.

QUOTE
You were right about the allowance. That is why in case of tayammum you can use dirt if there is water to be found. Main purification is still water. My argument is regarding the claim of the scarcity of water in Arabia which is not the case at all.

Regarding the thing with dog's saliva, requirement still to use water with 1/7 time is water mix with soil. I've read somewhere that the method can kill germs that comes from dog's saliva bit I'm really not familiar with scientific journals (not my favorite subject) so I cant guve you the actual source.
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It's just ritual cleansing in this day and age

Soap works better for any practical purpose
ladytarot99
post Dec 18 2019, 03:38 AM

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QUOTE(aliesterfiend @ Dec 18 2019, 01:27 AM)
There're reasons for every God's command. Quran does not only ask to do this and that or dont do this and that but puts responsibility on every individual to personally question, analyse and verify (39:18, 17:36, 5:105), calls not to accept or follow anything mindlessly, warning that doing so would lead to eventual interrogation by the course of nature (17:36), describes unquestioning minds as polluted (10:100), demands substantiating arguments with hard evidence to validate a conventional belief (2:111, 4:174, 5:104-105, 8:42, 10:100, 11:17, 17:36, 37:156-157), insists that believing in a ready-made proposition or accepting a popular hypothesis, without deep observation and reasoning, is misguiding (2:170, 5:104, 10:100-101, 31:21, 33:67, 37:69-71) and so on.
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👏🏻👏🏻

This post has been edited by ladytarot99: Dec 18 2019, 03:40 AM
bonedragon
post Dec 18 2019, 05:53 AM

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QUOTE(Gyazo @ Dec 17 2019, 10:24 PM)
Ok this is weird.
This explaination post got reported 4x times.

Its clearly somebody use his dupe accounts to report the post. tf
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Lipoted
Theoutspokenguy
post Dec 18 2019, 05:58 AM

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QUOTE(bangaubagus @ Dec 17 2019, 06:42 PM)
Can touch dog, kena sertu afterward. But cannot eat la of course

Not advisable cuz byk issue with dog for muslim.

Honestly i dont mind dog, they are cool
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try use a cat to guard your house or cat-9 unit use cat to sniff drugs or search and rescue
mousqy
post Dec 18 2019, 05:58 AM

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anjirrrrrrr
mrdokok
post Dec 18 2019, 06:06 AM

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for all my understand..dog is a big test for muslim..smart creature but cannot touch..for heaven of course..if touch need to wash with water+soil water..7:1..
Theoutspokenguy
post Dec 18 2019, 06:22 AM

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QUOTE(mrdokok @ Dec 18 2019, 06:06 AM)
for all my understand..dog is a big test for muslim..smart creature but cannot touch..for heaven of course..if touch need to wash with water+soil water..7:1..
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more like test for your mind.
Satori 14118a
post Dec 18 2019, 06:25 AM

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QUOTE(Theoutspokenguy @ Dec 18 2019, 05:58 AM)
try use a cat to guard your house or cat-9 unit use cat to sniff drugs or search and rescue
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Fit for purpose lah.

Even then there are dogs suited for such roles.
Theoutspokenguy
post Dec 18 2019, 06:26 AM

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QUOTE(Satori 14118a @ Dec 18 2019, 06:25 AM)
Fit for purpose lah.

Even then there are dogs suited for such roles.
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u dont see they use cat to guide the blind?

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