QUOTE(jagjag @ Dec 17 2019, 06:56 PM)
OK..good clarification..but oso mean that Malaysian muslim is more sensetive lah..others country's muslim is more open...
is all about politics. here people like to use race card
Muslims and dog, Can or cannot hold / touch dog
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Dec 17 2019, 11:12 PM
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867 posts Joined: Feb 2017 |
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Dec 17 2019, 11:13 PM
Show posts by this member only | IPv6 | Post
#62
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All Stars
15,182 posts Joined: Jan 2003 From: Damansara Heights |
Anjing itu indah
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Dec 17 2019, 11:21 PM
Show posts by this member only | IPv6 | Post
#63
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Junior Member
227 posts Joined: Feb 2019 From: Cherasboy |
QUOTE(aliesterfiend @ Dec 17 2019, 09:52 PM) Of course they use soap. Actually the romans adopted them from the conquered gallic/germanic tribes, not greeks. Unlikely because the Gauls and Goths were considered barbariansMore likely the Greeks as the Greeks were considered the educated and classy people of the time and the model of civilisation to be emulated QUOTE The bedouins live near deserts. They were not muslims during the prophet's time. The Arabs live in cities/towns where there are water sources. The process of sertu or cleasing is by using water where 1 out of 7 times is water mix with soil. But possibly the tradition arose from conditions when there was lack of water?Arabs never uses sands for cleansing. On the event there are no water, dust can be use for tayammum before prayer. Not related to dogs and sertu. There would have been times where people went travelling around outside the cities and near the desert also and possibly this is why there are allowances given? |
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Dec 17 2019, 11:22 PM
Show posts by this member only | IPv6 | Post
#64
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Junior Member
227 posts Joined: Feb 2019 From: Cherasboy |
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Dec 18 2019, 01:27 AM
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Senior Member
1,193 posts Joined: Mar 2008 |
QUOTE(genecode @ Dec 17 2019, 10:05 PM) No need to find reason other than God commanded it. There're reasons for every God's command. Quran does not only ask to do this and that or dont do this and that but puts responsibility on every individual to personally question, analyse and verify (39:18, 17:36, 5:105), calls not to accept or follow anything mindlessly, warning that doing so would lead to eventual interrogation by the course of nature (17:36), describes unquestioning minds as polluted (10:100), demands substantiating arguments with hard evidence to validate a conventional belief (2:111, 4:174, 5:104-105, 8:42, 10:100, 11:17, 17:36, 37:156-157), insists that believing in a ready-made proposition or accepting a popular hypothesis, without deep observation and reasoning, is misguiding (2:170, 5:104, 10:100-101, 31:21, 33:67, 37:69-71) and so on.If you layan these ktards, u will end up sinning due to questioning Islamic ways. |
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Dec 18 2019, 01:31 AM
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#66
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Junior Member
611 posts Joined: Jun 2008 |
QUOTE(xarmx @ Dec 17 2019, 06:55 PM) This one. And its not that hard to clean as per Islam's req. My pants got smelled by a dog before while working, I thought the dog was friendly that's why I did not shoo her off. Later see her nose kinda wet, I went back and dip my pants in some muddy puddle near my house, then wash back with water. Settle. dog's nose is wet , cannot dry, sometimes they will lick their noseas the nose need to keep moisture to function, i guess |
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Dec 18 2019, 01:37 AM
Show posts by this member only | IPv6 | Post
#67
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Junior Member
611 posts Joined: Jun 2008 |
QUOTE(bukankhadam @ Dec 17 2019, 11:08 PM) Dogs are cool. yeah i followed some animal sheltersConsidered special kind of dirty in islam, but never prohibit interaction with it. Just need to cuci if got interaction and some DUMB n confusing rule kenot keep as pet. Everything bout dogs n pigs is just confusing af in islam. Got some say like dis, some say like dat. Even the cuci name oso not rly known which one lol. Sertu or samak. Donno y some muslim so anti dogs until kecam all ppl dat have interaction with dogs, even just a lil bit. Even vet doktot oso kena in mesia. Bodo gila. usually can see some malays posting dog photos asking for help, definitely will say the malays at their area dislike dogs, and want to report to catch them away i dont know why believe in god created all things but end up they hating dogs just because of laws the worse one is some Malays lazy to do cleaning then they choose to hate dog .. understand if you may not touch, but you can wear gloves or what, dont like but dont harm This post has been edited by daimon: Dec 18 2019, 01:41 AM |
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Dec 18 2019, 01:42 AM
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Senior Member
1,193 posts Joined: Mar 2008 |
QUOTE(KLthinker91 @ Dec 17 2019, 11:21 PM) Unlikely because the Gauls and Goths were considered barbarians Greeks considers Romans barbarians and Roman considers Greeks as toga lifting faggots. Romans actually considers everyone not Greek or Romans as barbarians including the eastern civilizations like Persia. More likely the Greeks as the Greeks were considered the educated and classy people of the time and the model of civilisation to be emulated But possibly the tradition arose from conditions when there was lack of water? There would have been times where people went travelling around outside the cities and near the desert also and possibly this is why there are allowances given? Romans actually staryed using their ultimate weapon, the gladius after encountering them when fighting the 'barbarians' in Spain and using chainmail armour after encountering them against the 'barbarians' in Gaul. You were right about the allowance. That is why in case of tayammum you can use dirt if there is water to be found. Main purification is still water. My argument is regarding the claim of the scarcity of water in Arabia which is not the case at all. Regarding the thing with dog's saliva, requirement still to use water with 1/7 time is water mix with soil. I've read somewhere that the method can kill germs that comes from dog's saliva bit I'm really not familiar with scientific journals (not my favorite subject) so I cant guve you the actual source. |
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Dec 18 2019, 01:45 AM
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Senior Member
1,193 posts Joined: Mar 2008 |
QUOTE(howszat @ Dec 17 2019, 10:12 PM) Soil is full of germs - trust me. What is religion to you? Sets of rituals or way of life?But let's say soil is protective. But nowadays, we have all sorts of medication that are far better. So, "don't touch dog", and "use soil" are not longer relevant. So, it is religion? or just practice back then which is no longer relevant to today's world? |
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Dec 18 2019, 02:22 AM
Show posts by this member only | IPv6 | Post
#70
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Junior Member
20 posts Joined: Aug 2019 |
QUOTE(howszat @ Dec 17 2019, 08:27 PM) So nobody really knows whether this is just the normal practice because of conditions back then, but is no longer relevant today? I believe on that era.. the dog looks like this.So what is it? Religion? Culture? Best practice back then, but no longer applicable today? Human beings make up a lot of rules over time. It is not clear what is supposed to be religion vs what human being made up. Anjing kurap. ![]() And because of that, its dirty to touch. And if u touch u need to wash your hand, since on that era their is no dettol handwasher. The prophet said to use dirt instead. But come on, why still need to use dirt if we already have dettol handwasher? Also nowadays most of the dog that we touch have no ringworm (ajing kurap). Even if we touch, and if we try to wash our hand with dirt, then see our hand through telescope or something, i believe we still can see bunch of germ or ring worm. Unless we use this... ![]() But sometimes.. or most of the times.. muslim are too "lurus bendul" or too "naive". If the prophet suddenly alive now, i believe he also laugh. This post has been edited by Gyazo: Dec 18 2019, 02:25 AM |
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Dec 18 2019, 02:43 AM
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Senior Member
4,523 posts Joined: Apr 2006 |
Dogs also scared to touch. Lelz.
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Dec 18 2019, 02:45 AM
Show posts by this member only | IPv6 | Post
#72
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Junior Member
227 posts Joined: Feb 2019 From: Cherasboy |
QUOTE(aliesterfiend @ Dec 18 2019, 01:42 AM) Greeks considers Romans barbarians and Roman considers Greeks as toga lifting faggots. Romans actually considers everyone not Greek or Romans as barbarians including the eastern civilizations like Persia. Bit of a stereotype, although true in some situationsRomans in general had a strong appreciation for Greek knowledge, philosophy and technology, even arts and culture. The upper class Romans were often educated by Greeks. QUOTE Romans actually staryed using their ultimate weapon, the gladius after encountering them when fighting the 'barbarians' in Spain and using chainmail armour after encountering them against the 'barbarians' in Gaul. Well, yes, but that didn't stop them from regarding most Gaulish practices as barbarical So on balance, it is more likely the Romans copied Greek soap-using practices rather than barbarians. QUOTE You were right about the allowance. That is why in case of tayammum you can use dirt if there is water to be found. Main purification is still water. My argument is regarding the claim of the scarcity of water in Arabia which is not the case at all. It's just ritual cleansing in this day and ageRegarding the thing with dog's saliva, requirement still to use water with 1/7 time is water mix with soil. I've read somewhere that the method can kill germs that comes from dog's saliva bit I'm really not familiar with scientific journals (not my favorite subject) so I cant guve you the actual source. Soap works better for any practical purpose |
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Dec 18 2019, 03:38 AM
Show posts by this member only | IPv6 | Post
#73
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Junior Member
392 posts Joined: Jul 2019 |
QUOTE(aliesterfiend @ Dec 18 2019, 01:27 AM) There're reasons for every God's command. Quran does not only ask to do this and that or dont do this and that but puts responsibility on every individual to personally question, analyse and verify (39:18, 17:36, 5:105), calls not to accept or follow anything mindlessly, warning that doing so would lead to eventual interrogation by the course of nature (17:36), describes unquestioning minds as polluted (10:100), demands substantiating arguments with hard evidence to validate a conventional belief (2:111, 4:174, 5:104-105, 8:42, 10:100, 11:17, 17:36, 37:156-157), insists that believing in a ready-made proposition or accepting a popular hypothesis, without deep observation and reasoning, is misguiding (2:170, 5:104, 10:100-101, 31:21, 33:67, 37:69-71) and so on. 👏🏻👏🏻This post has been edited by ladytarot99: Dec 18 2019, 03:40 AM |
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Dec 18 2019, 05:53 AM
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Junior Member
351 posts Joined: Dec 2006 From: Selangor |
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Dec 18 2019, 05:58 AM
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4,602 posts Joined: Nov 2017 |
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Dec 18 2019, 05:58 AM
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Senior Member
758 posts Joined: Aug 2008 |
anjirrrrrrr
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Dec 18 2019, 06:06 AM
Show posts by this member only | IPv6 | Post
#77
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Junior Member
223 posts Joined: Oct 2015 |
for all my understand..dog is a big test for muslim..smart creature but cannot touch..for heaven of course..if touch need to wash with water+soil water..7:1..
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Dec 18 2019, 06:22 AM
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4,602 posts Joined: Nov 2017 |
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Dec 18 2019, 06:25 AM
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1,006 posts Joined: Sep 2014 |
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Dec 18 2019, 06:26 AM
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4,602 posts Joined: Nov 2017 |
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