Please bear with me. Will be quite a long thread. Thanks for taking the time to read it.

I just finished reading the "Chinaman' companies thread, and boy, I'm having a very mild migraine and stomach upset just by reading all the horror stories from the first page till the end.

Took me 2 hours.

I used to think my company is crap, but now my view has changed 360°.

I'm actually preparing to leave my current job (trying to aim another MNC - but actually now my company is also a MNC), but after reading the thread, I thought to myself, "man, will this be a wrong decision?".

I saw one poster replied like this:



So, now the company I'm at is the latter one - excluding the job performance review, which is the "Chinaman" company and I'm worried that I can't cope with the job expectation and pressure and lastly need to go back to a Chinaman company for easier life in future.

But still I think it's not really ideal to stay in any company for too long (I'm at the 4th year now). I really want to experience/explore different things. Nevertheless, I feel like I've made decision earlier and I should try it out no matter what.

So, now my questions:

1. How to avoid "Chinaman" company?
What questions we can ask during the interview to determine the work culture so that we don't end up with such company? What are the red flags?

2. Can I email the company before I apply to their job posting? I mean asking questions such as working hours etc.? Or you think that it's best not to do so, especially when I'm desperate for a job and this might hinder them from inviting me to their interview session?



This post has been edited by coolbuddha91: Nov 3 2019, 10:48 AM

Cannot avoid liao. Its everywhere.

Chinaman style mentality can be happen at MNCs too.

If you own a business, you want to run it Chinaman way or GLC/MNC way?

actually that style isn't unique to a particular race. it is similar across businesses where competition is great, margin is low and funding doesn't come in big pots

as a business, u need to do all u can to survive - minimize cost, maximize productivity.

after u understand this, then what u want to try to avoid isn't 'çhinaman' but particular industry which characteristics u don't like

In Malaysia every company is a Chinaman company so it's not a good idea to work here.

Go overseas to US or Europe then you can avoid Chinaman company.

Best of luck to you.

I suppose you can directly ask the company whether they are Chinaman company or not.

Nothing stopping you.

An employee isnt a 'chinaman' until he becomes an employer.

Inb4 360° = back to square, it shd be 180°....


1. How to avoid "Chinaman" company?
What questions we can ask during the interview to determine the work culture so that we don't end up with such company? What are the red flags?
- You can get some clue during interview session, especially when interviewer told you that they got special holiday during Chinese festival, like Dong Zhi, Mooncake fastival, etc., or even got special holiday during CNY and need to open the office at specific time, then confirm it is Chinaman style company.
- Management, if lots old people in the management, then you got 50% chance that is a typical Chinaman Style, especially if the founder \ top management is building their business from sketch. To know this info, you may do some research before interview \ applying the position
- Company target market, and customer base, this can give you some hint on the company characteristic.



2. Can I email the company before I apply to their job posting? I mean asking questions such as working hours etc.? Or you think that it's best not to do so, especially when I'm desperate for a job and this might hinder them from inviting me to their interview session?
- Usually if you are not even a candidate, they wont reply your questions, just because it is waste of their time + afraid of "spy" (for those typical mindset), but if they reply your email, meaning to say that they are confident on themselves and there is SOP to reply even a stranger email, then you can start to consider on job application.

MNCs getting more chinaman , best is just those just setup MNCs

Through interview perhaps you can access the way the interviewee interviews you.

I hav a theory
If the company number of staff less than 500, chinaman
If company more than 1000, likely to b non chinaman
If too little staff, they tend to micromanage

This post has been edited by taiping...: Jan 12 2020, 01:57 PM

Yes, that's true, I don't think that style is subjected to any race. Well, after govt change le, things also becomes different for the company. I think it's a type of company culture instead.

Paiseh, bad math concept. 1. Then my company fits this criteria, good thing they is allow us the off day on CNY eve using our own AL. Some don't even let you off during CNY eve.
2.

If they admit. I think they don't even realize that this term existed. I only knew about this term yesterday.

Ang moh way, Denmark way but still have to suit the local culture

I suppose companies don't care whether you label them Chinaman or not.

As long as they pay you a salary and they expect a certain level of performance or return.

If you want to suit local culture, then it's the Chinaman way already.

Haha, true also. Oh well, what do I know. Only when I work for in a German company in Germany then I will know...

But to be more specific what I mean is if I ever hire a Malay employee, I'd like them to be able to go for Friday prayer something like that. Mindset/concept still based on Germany style.

Errrr... Letting Muslims perform their prayers, that's the culture here, Chinaman company or otherwise.

You want 100% Germany style, you need to have the following:

1. Pay RM 10k starting salary for fresh grads.
2. 5 day work week.
3. No work or staying back after 5, absolutely no OT.
4. No WhatsApp/ email after 5pm. It's against the law.
5. Absolutely no pressuring the employee.
6. 30 to 45 days annual leave.
7. 6 months maternity leave
8. 2 months paternity leave
9. Free snacks tea for morning and afternoon.
10. Subsidised lunch.
11. Free 15 minute massage once a day.

Do the above and I salute you.

Anything less, you're still a Chinaman company.

Good luck.

Imagine if you have a project to hang a picture on a wall, you need to do this:


1. Get a civil engineer to survey the wall strength c/w calculations to prove that the wall can safely withstand the weight of the picture.
2. Purchaser to buy DIN and TUV compliant hammer and nails.
3. Buy helmet, coverall, gloves, safety shoes, safety glasses, mask, ear plugs.
4. One person to hold the nail.
5. One person to strike with hammer
6. One person to hang the picture
7. Standby ambulance, nurse and paramedic on site in case anyone get injured.
8. Civil engineer to sign off on project.

Anything short of the above is Chinaman style.

Good luck!

Wow, a dream environment. Looks like it's going to be impossible in Malaysia. but who knows kan...

No it's not impossible.

Waiting for you to start the first internationally certified non Chinaman company.

Hire me as General Manager with salary of RM120K a month together with:

2 months annual leave
4 day work week
Daily 9am until 4pm (to beat the jam)
Free overseas travel and holiday
Business class air travel (no need private jet)
Free medical
No performance target.
Free meals.
Lifetime pension
Bodyguards.
Company car (minimum Mercedes) with driver
Company house with piapable maid.
Free education for my children.
Free daily massage
That's all.

After you start the company, let me know and you'll receive my earnest application and CV.

Anything less, you're still called a Chinaman company.

Cheers.

If there's actually something like that I bet everybody would apply lol.

Well said, well said.

The employee doesn't know what sacrifices, challenges and risks it takes to become an employer. It is so easy for the employee to label his employer as "Chinaman" when he himself cannot fit in to work culture, cannot take criticism, cannot perform and cannot overcome challenges.

Hey TS is going to start the first internationally certified non Chinaman company in Malaysia.

I'm first to apply. You get in line behind me.

choose to join huge MNCs, then you should be relatively safe from china-man culture

Huge MNCs are also Chinamans in disguise.

true, it's a virus spreading to any company include euro MNC now

but a lil advantages of working in MNC is that you get more training

MS office, statistics, accounting tools are all free

local chinamen? on job training

This post has been edited by spring onion: Nov 3 2019, 05:55 PM

Whew, chill. TS is just asking for opinions, slow down the fire...

The "chinaman" label and description of a profit-focused organization (well, literally most companies because nobody does it for free) went a little overboard. Every company is different in their management and operations. Just like how everybody is different. So I guess different people is suited to different environments.