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 LYN Christian Fellowship Thread Ver 15

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aral3005
post Mar 15 2020, 11:47 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Feb 24 2020, 10:50 AM)
The correct perspective is to look to God and not to anyone or any organization be it political or non political.

God is always the "Right" focus for Hope for the future because He is God after all, the one with real powers no Man can defy. In God we can dare to dream and to hope for our lives and for our families or friends.

Doesn't matter what political party rules the country.

We are not suppose to put our hopes or trust in Man, this goes with saying anything that has to do with "Man".

Man can scheme all they want...through deceit or by force but our life, our breath and our destiny is in the hands of the Almighty.

Strengthen your resilient Faith in God the Father.

God Bless Ya'll.
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So the father is the only true god now?
aral3005
post Mar 15 2020, 12:17 PM

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QUOTE(pehkay @ Mar 15 2020, 12:05 PM)
Your question ah? Why so weird one? smile.gif
You want ”Strengthen your resilient Faith in God the Father in Christ as the Spirit.” ?
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Usually only heard christian people mention 'god' or ' jesus'

But rarely emphasize 'the father'
aral3005
post Mar 16 2020, 01:34 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Feb 13 2020, 11:10 AM)
Where did Jesus says He is God?

John 8:58 (NIV) - "Very truly I tell you," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I AM!"

I am here is the reference to how God refers to Himself.

Exodus 3:14 (NIV) - God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'I AM has sent me to you.'"
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I would suggest one to read entire chapter which the specific verse come from to get better view of the meaning/context, especially popular verse which always come out to highlights something

Then proceed to read explanation from christian scholar to get better understanding

Reading only a verse will not give better explanation, and usually it can mislead the true meaning of the chapter, especially when one relate a verse with another verse to strengthen the perspective

In this case, it is advisable to read john 8 to get the full story, what's the issue happen in the chapter, and the story

I realized u bold the 'i am' part. Is it applicable to every 'i am' in the bible?
aral3005
post Mar 16 2020, 12:29 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Mar 16 2020, 09:05 AM)
Read the verse before that, "before Abraham was born. What does that tell you?
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Before all prophet born into this world, they already know each other

This is also applicable in Jeremiah 1:5

John 8 telling us the story of conversation between jesus and Israelites
And the best interpretation is how the people react to jesus after that?
In john 8:59, the people picked up stone to stone jesus.

They are following Deuteronomy 18:20 that false prophets must be killed.

The jews cannot accept jesus as the messiah, or someone sent by god.
They even accused jesus as demon-possessed while jesus try to explain and comparing himself with earlier prophet abraham.

Or do i need to paste some john 8 verses here like lurkingaround
aral3005
post Mar 16 2020, 02:09 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Mar 16 2020, 01:21 PM)
When you say before all prophets born into this world, they already know each other..I'm sorry but that is not supported in scripture.

Jeremiah 1:5 just proved this can only be said from God. Hence Christ is God.

Jesus also said, anyone who seen me (Jesus) has seen the Father. That is another statement proving Jesus is God.
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Then exodus 3:14 is said by god, john 8:58 is said by jesus

John 8 is an issue of prophecy of jesus as jesus being asked by the Jews. That verse "Very truly I tell you, before Abraham was born, I am!" is jesus answer to jews asking "You are not yet fifty years old, and you have seen Abraham!" as in john 8:57

They question jesus already seen abraham when jesus is not even 50 years old and already seen abraham which was already dead.


aral3005
post Mar 16 2020, 02:17 PM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Mar 16 2020, 01:27 PM)
.
Are you a Protestant Christian.?

I usually ignore non-Protestants on this thread.

All teachings must be backed by the Word of God, as recorded by His prophets and apostles in the Bible.

Afaik, Jesus Christ was God-in-the-flesh in 1st-century AD, was also the God of Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, King David, Elijah, the 12 apostles, early Christians and is also the God of today's Christians. Jesus Christ will also be the God of raptured/resurrected believers when He physically returns to earth for the 2nd time to begin His Millennial/1,000-years rule on a new earth. In Him, we see God the Father who art in heaven, ie not on earth - JOHN.14:7-9.

If you are a Protestant, I will post the relevant Bible quotes.
.
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I am more to protestant

The reason i tag u is, sometimes i accept the way u post so many verses here, as actually people even outside this thread can read other verses, not just the popular ones. And we can know the context of certain verses by knowing reading the previous verses and how it related.

I do not prefer cherry picking certain verses and force it to fit to our own explanation.

John 8 jesus mentioning many times how he is comparable to previous prophet, and he was sent by god. And see how the jews reacting to him, by accusing him as false prophet, not god or godhood.

To have good discussion, set aside our emotions by sticking to the bible and being objective as much as we can. Expalanation follow the bible, not bible that have to follow our explanation.
aral3005
post Mar 16 2020, 02:22 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Mar 16 2020, 02:18 PM)
So, that should answer you why Jesus is God.

As what you quoted in John 8.
42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on My own, but He sent Me.

All the more proving Jesus is God.
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"for I have come here from God.
I have not come on My own,
but He sent Me."

U mean he is a messenger?

Try to quote all related verses in john 8 where jesus comparing him to previous prophet, and what god have give him including the glory from god
aral3005
post Mar 16 2020, 02:31 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Mar 16 2020, 02:24 PM)
Exodus 3:14 is the affirmation of the title of God, John 8.58 affirms Jesus calling himself with the title of God because it would not make any sense to mean it's Him because He is born from virgin birth after Abraham yet preexisted with God the Father.
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59 verses in john 8 and suddenly u picked up 58 mentioning about godhood?

What is the question that lead to that statement?
And how the jews react to it?

When the heard jesus answer, it comes to their knowledge jesus claiming to be a prophet hence they picked up the stones.

Better we understand the story in john 8 alone before relate it to other verses.

And why u highlight 'i am'? Do u know how many 'i am' actually mentioned in bible? I do not think it is only between john 8:58 and exodus 3:14 right?
aral3005
post Mar 16 2020, 03:01 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Mar 16 2020, 02:47 PM)
Which is why I've asked you to think about this. If Jesus was merely a human prophet (using your argument of the reference statement to define himself as a prophet by using i am), he cannot have existed before Abraham.

The only way for this to be true, is that Jesus is God.
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The Jews did not ask jesus about his godhood or is he god.

The best way to interpret is how the jews react to it.

Why dont u discuss previous verses that lead to 58 so that we know the context?
aral3005
post Mar 16 2020, 03:56 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Mar 16 2020, 03:03 PM)
of course they didn't. They don't believe that He is God.

That is why Jesus made that declaration by using the phrase I AM.
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Bro, john 8 never mention about godhood of jesus.
The issue arise is about jesus claiming to be sent by god as the previous prophets and jews find it hard to accept it.

Actually, have u read john 8 completely?cz the way u reply here seems u are not reading it.

How can we have a healthy discussion when u only stick to 1 verse and i try to explain its context taken from same chapter?i can accept if we agree to disagree but now u are telling things different from what jesus said that lead to 58. Jesus repeatedly mentioned god sent him to jews.

To me, john 8 is a special chapter where here jesus explains about himself as u can find the coversation between jesus and Pharisees, eith the Jews after that.

Jesus make it clear in 42:
Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on My own, but He sent Me.
aral3005
post Mar 16 2020, 04:06 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Mar 16 2020, 03:59 PM)
I think it does, look at your last sentence.
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I will stick to my understandings, and you can keep yours.

To me john 8 from verse 1 to 59 contain important details about jesus.

The Jews accepts the father as the god and previous prophets when jesus carry the same teaching and even do miracles to prove he is sent by god, but the issue is jews still dont believe him and even accused him to be demon-possessed as what he mentioned in 49:
“I do not have a demon,” Jesus replied, “but I honor My Father, and you dishonor Me"
aral3005
post Mar 16 2020, 04:10 PM

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Aa long as we can have healthy discussion by sticking to the bible not our emotions, i dont mind to discuss even for long time.

Cz the reader of this thread will judge it by their own understanding. That's more important.
aral3005
post Mar 16 2020, 04:12 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Mar 16 2020, 04:08 PM)
You agree only God can forgive sin? Did he do that in very chapter you asked me to read?

Does that not speak of his Godhood?
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Which verse are u referring to in john 8 if u dont mind?
So we can diacuss it
aral3005
post Mar 16 2020, 06:58 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Mar 16 2020, 04:16 PM)
He forgave the woman who was about to be stoned?

Verse 11?
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From john 8:7 until 11, is there anyone stone the woman?

John 8:6 mentioned the people accusing the woman and and use it as a trap.

Jesus ask them to stone her as in john 8:7
When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her."

But no one stone her, it's an accusation, and jesus doing just to the woman.
aral3005
post Mar 16 2020, 07:16 PM

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QUOTE(tipuism @ Mar 16 2020, 05:00 PM)
Firstly, i am unsure you are really a believer in Christ but i will try answer your query anyway.

the deity of Jesus is a core tenent of Christianity.

take that away, everything crumbles because His death on the cross would be insufficient for the forgiveness of sins according to God's law given to Moses.

Jesus did not come to do away with the law but to fulfill it.

scripture is clear that
All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God (Rom 3:23)

and unless one without sin is offered as a subsitute sacrifice , the payment for sin (which is death) is not satisfied. Read Romans 3 for a clearer picture.

Now the question on how Jesus declared himself to be the Son of God.

Apart from John 8 : 58 where Jesus said before "Abraham, I AM" there are several other instances that come to mind.

the healing of the paralytic man lowered through the roof
Mark 2:7 onwards

Jesus implied His divinity with the ability to forgive sins.

when Caiphas questioned Jesus

Mark 14:61-64
Matt 26:62 onwards

in these passages Jesus' answer was clear.

going back to John 8.

contrary to what you say, the  chapter is actually about Jesus declaring His divinity.

consider His statements.

I am the Light of the world.

you are from below and I am from above

I tell the things that I have seen at My Father’s side

etc etc.

Pls read John chapter 1 to understand what Jesus meant by being Light of the world

and like UW stated.
there is no scriptural basis on your assertion that all prophets know each other

we can disagree on many things but the divinity of Christ is not one of them.
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U touch on many topics

U said jesus implied, but in several verses jesus clearly stated it's the father who forgive the sin.

aral3005
post Mar 16 2020, 07:19 PM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Mar 16 2020, 05:26 PM)
aral3005 Please refer to Issue#10 - What is the Holy Trinity.? at my thread https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/4886095 . To me, your confusion about JOHN.8:58 stems from your lack of understanding about who God is, wrt His Fatherhood, Sonhood and Spirithood.

An Old Testament prophecy about Jesus the Prophet. .......

DEUT.18: (NKJV) = A New Prophet Like Moses

15 “The Lord your God will raise up for you a Prophet like me from your midst, from your brethren. Him you shall hear, 16 according to all you desired of the Lord your God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, ‘Let me not hear again the voice of the Lord my God, nor let me see this great fire anymore, lest I die.’

17 “And the Lord said to me: ‘What they have spoken is good. 18 I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among their brethren, and will put My words in His mouth, and He shall speak to them all that I command Him. 19 And it shall be that whoever will not hear My words, which He speaks in My name, I will require it of him.

20 But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in My name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die.’ 21 And if you say in your heart, ‘How shall we know the word which the Lord has not spoken?’— 22 when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the thing does not happen or come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him.
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JOHN.1: = 19 Now this is the testimony of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, “Who are you?”

20 He confessed, and did not deny, but confessed, “I am not the Christ.”

21 And they asked him, “What then? Are you Elijah?”

He said, “I am not.”

“Are you the Prophet?”

And he answered, “No.”
.

JOHN.7: = Who Is He?

40 Therefore many from the crowd, when they heard this saying, said, “Truly this is the Prophet.” 41 Others said, “This is the Christ.”

But some said, “Will the Christ come out of Galilee? 42 Has not the Scripture said that the Christ comes from the seed of David and from the town of Bethlehem, where David was?” 43 So there was a division among the people because of Him. 44 Now some of them wanted to take Him, but no one laid hands on Him.

.
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The translation from greek septuagint of 'i am' in john 8:58 and exodus 3:14 is not the same if u study it. That's why u can relate it between those 2 verses.
aral3005
post Mar 16 2020, 11:46 PM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Mar 16 2020, 07:40 PM)
.
New Testament Greek = Christos = Christ in today's English.
Old Testament Hebrew = Mashich = Messiah in today's English.

Does that mean Christ is not the same as Messiah.?

Similarly, your family at home may call you by a certain name. Your school mates or work colleagues may call you by a different name. Does this mean you were not the same person when with your family and in school or at work.?
.

P S - Hence, we should study the Bible in our 1st language, eg English, and not in its original language like ancient Hebrew in the OT, Greek, Aramaic, etc in the NT. Any difficulties or controversies which are few, we should consult the opinion and commentaries of the expert translators who understood both or all 3 languages of the Bible well.
....... Why make life needlessly difficult for ourselves when Jesus Christ has stated that His yoke is easy and burden light.?
.
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What we read now is the translation of the bible.

If got issue especially regarding translation, i will try to study it from its original language, and the history involving the verse so i can understand it better.

In previous discussion regarding 'i am', the original language of that particular 'i am' is different between that 2 verses. How 2 different phrases translated into same word in english 'i am'?

I wish the misinterpretation in translating the bible as simple as u gave early such as messiah word.
aral3005
post Mar 16 2020, 11:53 PM

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QUOTE(tipuism @ Mar 16 2020, 07:42 PM)
Can you quote these verses ?
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Sure bro

Luke 23:34
Then Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.”e And they divided up His garments by casting lots.

Mark 11:25
And when you stand to pray, if you hold anything against another, forgive it, so that your Father in heaven will forgive your trespasses as well.

Luke 6:36
Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.

Sorry I'm a bit slow cz i hv the tendency to read the whole chapter.
aral3005
post Mar 16 2020, 11:59 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Mar 16 2020, 09:23 PM)
The reason why I asked you is to explain to you..... only God is qualified to forgive sinners.
Jesus did that when he said..."neither do I condemn you" that is to counter what the pharisee stake claim in saying according to the Law of Moses, she need to be stoned.

Hence John 8 has a lot of verses that support Jesus being God.

Look I think you're fighting for the sake of fighting here, if you're keen to learn, we can learn together.  smile.gif
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Jesus counter them by saying to them to cast stone starting with those without sin. But what happen the people began to leave jesus one by one until only jesus n the woman left.

Full story as in John 8 from 7 to 11

7When they continued to question Him, He straightened up and said to them, “Let him who is without sin among you be the first to cast a stone at her.”

8And again He bent down and wrote on the ground.

9When they heard this,b they began to go away one by one, beginning with the older ones, until only Jesus was left, with the woman standing there.

10Then Jesus straightened upc and asked her, “Woman, where are your accusers?d Has no one condemned you?”

11“No one, Lord,” she answered.
“Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Now go and sin no more.”

I do emphasize the way i read bible, not the truth in it. Most of bible verses are as clear without even need to explain or add anything, only some that need interpretation from the expert/christian scholar.
aral3005
post Mar 17 2020, 12:01 AM

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Sorry if i am a bit slow, i do need to study even a short verse as i like to read most or all verses in the chapter.

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