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 LYN Christian Fellowship Thread Ver 15

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aral3005
post Mar 24 2020, 12:26 AM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Mar 23 2020, 01:06 PM)
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How did God/Jesus reached out to the Gentiles who mostly knew nuts about His Word and Law in the Old Testament.? = He used a Pharisee Jewish zealot and Roman citizen who had both feet or experience and knowledge in Judaism/Christianity and Roman Gentilism, ie apostle Paul. 
....... Similarly we have a number of Christian converts who were ex-Muslims = have both feet in Islam and Christianity; and a number of Christian converts who were ex-Buddhists, ex-Taoists, ex-Hindus, ex-atheists/communists, ex-Jews, ex-etc.

People like you and me are likely not equipped by the Spirit of God to reach out to Muslims. Instead, we should heed the warning of 1PET.5:8, eg avoid breaking the local laws(MATT..22:21) by not proselytizing to Muslims in Malaysia like aral3005 = may end up like Pastor Raymond Koh. If Malaysian Muslims are interested to convert, there are ways, though quite difficult, eg Lina Joy who emigrated or escaped from Malaysia.
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Why dont u see christianity globally?especially in europe?
U need to know ur info from multiple sources to get better understandings, not just interpret something by yourself.
aral3005
post Mar 26 2020, 04:18 PM

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QUOTE(thomasthai @ Mar 24 2020, 03:50 AM)
Hi again friend,

I find your reading of the bible verses seriously biased against the plain meaning of the text.
Re-read the text again.

The plain meaning here:
1) Jesus did not say He is NOT good
2) Jesus did not say He is NOT God.

If you say Jesus was denying His divinity in these verses, you are putting your own interpretation into it.

You see how biased one can be in reading a text?

We call this eisegesis. Reading your own interpretation into the text.
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It's a bit difficult when I'm replying to a person specific post then suddenly someone else replying to my response.

Someone here say jesus is good, but in the bible jesus question those who called him good.

As i say before, most verses have clear meaning, and some may have various way to interpret it.
U can prove to me if jesus say something contradict to what I'm saying, and i can show it to u if what u said may contradict with what the bible stated.
aral3005
post Mar 26 2020, 04:24 PM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Mar 24 2020, 08:33 AM)
Read properly.  cool2.gif
Your little god died. My God Almighty has no beginning and no end. To die is human. To shed blood is human.
Hi. Have you heard of Jewish style of discourse? Its answering a question with a question.
In fact, Jesus was indicating that the ruler was right. He was right to call him God.
Please do not read everything in Hellenistic English understanding. The scriptures were written with a Jewish culture with lots of Hebraism and idioms.

The triune compositon of God is already found in the old testament. Lots of it. IF you seek to understand it in the Hebrew context.
Also, the multipilicity of the God found in the old testament has always astonished Jewish teachers.
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Why u called jesus as 'little god'.

Yes, it's written in jewish culture/language, as i try to state that 'son of god' does not mean literally the god have son, or daughter, it's an expression of a believer.

The surely u can show me where the god manifest as 1 person/being from the scripture?
aral3005
post Mar 26 2020, 04:28 PM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Mar 24 2020, 12:03 PM)
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Imagine a Christian like yourself, going into a Muslim Fellowship forum thread and starts alluding to the Muslim forummers there that Muhammad was a false prophet by quoting the Quran and ignores most of the Muslims' arguments, points and quotes from the Quran.

To me, such a Christian is being self-righteous, impulsive, disrespectful and disruptive, and the same for a Muslim doing something similar in a Christian Fellowship forum thread.
....... And in Malaysia, the Christian will likely be arrested and charged in court for proselytizing to Muslims and for insulting Prophet Muhammad and Islam, but not the same for a Muslim who has proselytized to Christians and insulted Prophet Jesus Christ and Christianity, ie unlikely to be charged in court.
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True.

I do believe if u approach any human with manner and knowledge, surely there will be a good discussion and sharing.

But if u do approach with emotion, own interpretation without even csn give an evidence, let alone try to listen to others expalanation, the discussion will just be a bashing place.

I think the best if we compare our nation with indonesia.

In your opinion, do i look like try to proselytizing in this thread?
aral3005
post Mar 26 2020, 04:29 PM

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QUOTE(popcorneater @ Mar 24 2020, 12:12 PM)
its actually to be able to answer them when they come to places like this
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Thanks bro for your kind words, and no double standard.
aral3005
post Mar 26 2020, 04:32 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Mar 24 2020, 12:20 PM)
Simple Answer, A Human prophet are never given "ALL" Authority. They are only given partial as evident in the Old Testament. They exhibited part of God's miracle..whichever that is granted.

But only Christ Jesus time and time again recorded in the Bible has been given complete Glory and Authority.

Only God has "ALL Authority. smile.gif

Read the verses as stated.
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When u claim something, i tried to bring jesus words to make it as a proof to u that ur claim is clearly wrong.

Jesus was given authority to perform miracles, to bring back and make Moses teachings firm and to uphold the commandments.

But as stated by jesus himself, it's clear not all authority was given to him.
aral3005
post Mar 26 2020, 04:38 PM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Mar 24 2020, 12:24 PM)
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It's pointless and fruitless for a Christian like yourself, to answer a Muslim like aral3005, who comes to a Christian Fellowship forum thread to insult Prophet Jesus Christ and Christianity, and to proselytize to Christians(by trying to show they are wrong in their beliefs).

Also, such a Muslim is not interested in your answers because you have inferior knowledge in the Quran and hadiths.
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I didn't bring war to this thread.

In my previous post, I've already make it clear how i came to this thread recently.

Again, do my words sounds like proselytizing someone here by stating my interpretation of the translation of the bible?

The thing is when someone make a claim, and i bring jesus word from the bible forward as an evidence, there is a different interpretation or approach to the verse.

How can u accuse your own friend to have inferior knowledge in quran and hadith?do u use ur emotion-based answer?
aral3005
post Mar 26 2020, 04:40 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Mar 24 2020, 12:37 PM)
Because that young Rich ruler asked Christ Jesus what must one do to enter Heaven? Christ has repeatedly spread the Gospel, He is the only way to God. (John 14:6)

The young rich rule thought by doing something (own performance), one gets to enter Heaven.

The Gospel is that one has to believe Jesus is the Son of God..ie God and is the saviour of Mankind.
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Jesus is a way, not the destination.

Again, 'son of god' is not alwys translated as the only true god in the bible.
aral3005
post Mar 26 2020, 04:45 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Mar 24 2020, 12:39 PM)
This place is a fellowship and gathering of Christians. Here we share scripture believes to encourage one another. Yes it is Church. Church does not mean the building, it means a gathering of Christians. Yes in a way it is an online church.

I believe you are here to try to convince us Christians, our scripture is wrong according to your teacher Zakir Naik. smile.gif

I know this in the spirit.
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Again, u bring something out of topic into our discussion.

I've never mention zakir naik, and i already stated there are verses in the bible with clear meaning, and some with ambigous interpretation.

What happened here when u make a claim, i show u how jesus stated in the bible and to have different meaning, and u can show verses from the bible as ur evidence too.

I've never ever claim the bible is wrong.

Please dont twist my words to your liking.

As u can see, i never once edited my posts in this thread.
aral3005
post Mar 26 2020, 04:47 PM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Mar 26 2020, 12:27 PM)
Not everything seemingly bad is from the devil.

It may be judgement from the Lord. Looking at the world and even so called Christian churches, holiness and righteousness has gone out of the window.
Its a wake up call to all of us, Christian groups included.
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True.

aral3005
post Mar 29 2020, 10:28 PM

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popcorneater

Thanks for your academically approach answer.
But the way u answer seems to me u are the moderator here.

Most christians assume one need to put jesus as god in their heart/as a belief the can u only read the bible. However, with this approach, more trouble can arise as bias can happen. Even as basic as using semantics when approaching bible verses seems not being used, if at all.

I prefer bible scholar approach such as Bart D. Ehrman when discussing about bible. No emotion, purely academic, seeking the truth.

Need time to read all post within past 2 days.
aral3005
post Mar 29 2020, 10:33 PM

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QUOTE(popcorneater @ Mar 26 2020, 04:58 PM)
This is why when i taught my youths in bible class, i always challenged them to know what they actually believe in and not swallow everything the teacher says wholesale.

aral is here asking questions and we perceive him as challenging our beliefs.

we should be able to provide clear answers and when we cannot we must not be ashamed to say so.

this is also why we should learn to understand where his thinking is coming from and by doing so, aral can decide for himself which source is actually correct.

we can discuss all things in a mutually respectful manner.
that too is fellowship.
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Challenge your own belief, rather than blindly follow.

My primary source is the niv bible, and i prioritize jesus' words compared to others.

Thank you for your academical approach.

aral3005
post Mar 30 2020, 02:46 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Mar 26 2020, 11:28 PM)
John 8:23 (NIV) - Then He told them, "You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world.

John 17:14 (NIV) - I have given them Your word and the world has hated them; for they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.
Jesus Christ repeated tell us He is not of this world. So question to ask, What world is He from?
Another indication He is God.
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You are implying. Then from what evidence can we conclude anything from above can be considered as god?does that include angels?

'Your word' - jesus act as a messenger/middle man conveying the father's word to the people, and it's not even jesus' words.
aral3005
post Mar 30 2020, 02:48 AM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Mar 27 2020, 08:37 AM)
I did not. You did. I called Him the Almighty God.
Exactly. Son of God is to show the relationship between the two persons as you would understand a human father and son relationshsip.
Its nothing biological. 

God is 3 persons but one entity. The Hebrew word for the oneness in Hebrew is echad. Echad is a compound unity, meaning more than one.
Its also used to describe the marriage where the man and woman become one(echad).
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Then give evidence where these 3 manifest as 1 'entity'. If no verse to support this then i conclude u are assuming.
aral3005
post Mar 30 2020, 02:55 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Mar 27 2020, 10:29 PM)
I believe he's trying to sway Christians to believe in his religion POV on the Bible.

That Jesus is only a human prophet, is not God, did not die on the cross, etc etc.

And He is asking us to read the Bible for what it is, problem is, he is not reading what the Bible is saying.

A very good example.

We know All Authority in Heaven and on Earth has been given to Jesus, that is in Scripture and yet he says Not all is given.

he is contradicting what the Bible says. Problem is, he doesn't want to admit it, keeps shifting the goal post.
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Again i will not repeating myself.
Thanks to someone here compiling all my posts so u can find the evidence of so called accusation of me trying to sway believers here.

And it's true not all authority given to jesus. Do u know jesus didn't know the hour?do u not consider that as an authority?

I won't bombard my post with multiple bible verses as i prefer to go slow in understanding the bible.

aral3005
post Mar 30 2020, 03:07 AM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Mar 27 2020, 10:33 PM)
Yes you are correct the Holy Bible is both coherent and consistent.

Anyone who is born again will understand immediately every word that is recorded in the Holy Bible and that there is no contradiction whatsoever. If there is any contradiction at all even the slightest one, it is simply because one has not been born again.

This discourse from the very beginning was destined to end in nothing but futility. To what can I draw the concept of the Holy Trinity on ... human beings are made of flesh and blood and of the spirit. 3 elements put together and what you have is a human being. Likewise it with the Holy Trinity ie God the Father, God the Son and God the Spirit, together they make 1 God. Every Christian understands this easily and readily accepts it but to him it is impossible for God the Spirit has been permanently removed from the equation and that's where contradiction comes in. The worst of all are attempts to undermine God the Son as the rightfull Teacher, just so that personal teachings can inputed either unknowingly or worse still knowingly.

We can talk till the cows come home, it ain't going to make no difference simply because we Christians have our Lord Jesus Christ, God the Son as our cornerstone, our Teacher and our Master, while others don't. Undertaking Sacred Scripture reading for him as a scholar project, in my opinion he has too much time on his hands.
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So what is your main point?

I prefer not to touch about bible being coherent and consistent as u said. Many version of bible and even it splits the follower to several factions according to their concept in christianity and the bible is the proof of it. Yet here u make the claim the bible is consistent.

Any bible verse to support your claim these 3 gods manifest as 1 'God'?
It is not a simple question, in fact if i try to ask 10 Christian followers and
I get 10 different answers, i won't be surprised.

Read the bible and understand it takes a long time, especially when it comes to language difference, translations, and to understand semantics of the jews at that time. U read, then u will have the knowledge, then u will have the belief. Not the other way around where some Christian followers assume one needs to have faith first then he can only read the bible.

Do u know how simple is the concept of god as explained by jesus?
It's even shorter than the one in your reply.
aral3005
post Mar 30 2020, 03:09 AM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Mar 28 2020, 12:00 PM)
Unfortunately they aren't allowed to ask questions within their community. In a previous case, legal action was taken against a man for persistently asking his religious authorities questions BECAUSE his questions weren't answered.
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U mean in islam?
Is this a case or from islamic teachings?
aral3005
post Mar 30 2020, 03:11 AM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Mar 28 2020, 12:05 PM)
You believe in dispensation of grace. I don't.

Grace has been in operation forever, including the times of the patriachs. However, God's nature of holiness does not change. Grace does not mean anything goes. Grace without holiness/righteousness results in lawlessness. There is always a tension between God's grace/love and His holiness. Therefore you will see God dishing out judgement or discipline now and then. However His final judgement will come later. That's what you are referring to. The judgement day. Rev 20
Psalms 96
3 Let all creation rejoice before the LORD, for he comes, he comes to judge the earth. He will judge the world in righteousness and the peoples in his faithfulness.
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True.
aral3005
post Mar 30 2020, 03:15 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Mar 28 2020, 12:23 PM)
Well I don't.

The thing you need to know, he is being deceitful. Aral conveniently ignore scipture when it's so clear. So what is really happening is that, he's just cherry picking certain parts of Jesus's own words and ignore parts that doesn't benefit his religion POV.

He's here not to learn but to vehemently attack with the purpose to lead Christians astray. That is his only intention.
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I'm here not asking to be respected.
Again i wont repeat my post answering same statement/accusation from u.
Unless u want to discuss about verses in bible, i will respect it by giving a proper reply.

So, any verse in bible showing anyone/anything greater/more authority than the father?
aral3005
post Mar 30 2020, 03:17 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Mar 28 2020, 12:38 PM)
I'll give 1 more Scripture verse that is with a doubt Jesus is God.
John 20

26 A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” 27Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”

28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”

29Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
Jesus accepts this title of God. smile.gif He didn't reject it. If he was just a mere human, he would be afraid and would say "Worship God only, do not call me God".
Case Close.
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Some christian scholar give opinion of it was an expression. Just like when u are surprised and u shout "jesus!".




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