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 Beware of insurance "savings plans"

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kbandito
post Aug 25 2019, 02:42 PM

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1. Remember insurance company charges about 150% of your annual contribution as distribution cost in the first five years, of which about 100% goes to the insurance agent's commission.
2. In any insurance quote, check the 'Illustration of Expected Benefits' table, it tells you how much exactly your contribution goes to - distribution cost, premium charges, insurance charges, management fees and balance fund for 'investment'. Also check what is the return % assumption, that's the favorite part of insurance agent when they tell you that you will get RMx mil 50 years later.
3. For example, Great Eastern uses 7-8% for their investment return, but the fact is
QUOTE(kbandito @ Jun 13 2019, 10:50 AM)
This is Great Eastern's latest fund performance.
On a 5-year CAGR basis, the Fixed Income Fund made 5.2% average per year, the Balance Fund made 3.4%/year, and the Progressive Fund made -0.8%/year (negative).

They need to sack the fund managers for not able to outperform idiot-proof fixed income fund. I know last year was tough but 5-year CAGR performance of that is abso-effing-lutely unacceptable.

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beLIEve
post Aug 25 2019, 02:49 PM

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QUOTE(RigerZ @ Aug 25 2019, 02:29 PM)
I do want to go for ASNB but I read here that:
Unless if you can enlighten on when are there units for newbies to buy...
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the word you should bold is Usually. once you try, you'll know.

This post has been edited by beLIEve: Aug 25 2019, 03:06 PM
neverfap
post Aug 25 2019, 02:59 PM

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QUOTE(beLIEve @ Aug 25 2019, 02:49 PM)
the word you should bold is Usually. once you try, you'll know.
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Sup elder.
beLIEve
post Aug 25 2019, 03:07 PM

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QUOTE(neverfap @ Aug 25 2019, 02:59 PM)
Sup elder.
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7 Up

don't know la. he quoted me here. I also confused.
TSRigerZ
post Aug 25 2019, 03:24 PM

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QUOTE(neverfap @ Aug 25 2019, 02:37 PM)
If u pay the minimum, how long will the cash value sustain the insurance plan? And if the money left over still be the same? Iinm, the cash value is not guaranteed one. Do ask the agent whether how much is the guaranteed amount. Later if found out that there's no more cash value when you wanna withdraw for your retirement then it's too late.
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I'm not sure what is meant by "cash value sustain the insurance plan"...

If I totally cancel my ILPs now I would lose about 50k upfront.

If I continue at RM1200 per year x 2 policies x 20 years I would lose also about RM50k, in worst case scenario.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the second option looks better. Assuming that I can reduce my premium to this little
beLIEve
post Aug 25 2019, 03:42 PM

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QUOTE(RigerZ @ Aug 25 2019, 02:29 PM)
I do want to go for ASNB but I read here that:
Unless if you can enlighten on when are there units for newbies to buy...
*
ohhh now I understand.

if you want easy buy and have spare money lying around :
1. ASM 2 aka Wawasan giving dividend on Sept 1 and reopen for trading on Sept 3. A lot of rich people should be cashing out them dividends. it should be easier to buy on Sept 3 and gets more difficult as days go by.

2. ASM 3 giving dividend on Oct 1. Should be easier to buy on Oct 1 over the same reason.

Newbies get to buy when oldies sell or when ASN adds more units for sale.

not familiar with insurance savings plan. you can try see if can renego for lower commitment. what I've learned from rich people is, they cancelled it once they got rich. It means that you'll probably still need it now. the net amount of money you lose upon maturity is what you pay to get yourself insured (just my opinion).
TSRigerZ
post Aug 25 2019, 04:08 PM

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QUOTE(beLIEve @ Aug 25 2019, 03:42 PM)
ohhh now I understand.

if you want easy buy and have spare money lying around :
1. ASM 2 aka Wawasan giving dividend on Sept 1 and reopen for trading on Sept 3. A lot of rich people should be cashing out them dividends. it should be easier to buy on Sept 3 and gets more difficult as days go by.

2. ASM 3 giving dividend on Oct 1. Should be easier to buy on Oct 1 over the same reason.

Newbies get to buy when oldies sell or when ASN adds more units for sale.

not familiar with insurance savings plan. you can try see if can renego for lower commitment. what I've learned from rich people is, they cancelled it once they got rich. It means that you'll probably still need it now. the net amount of money you lose upon maturity is what you pay to get yourself insured (just my opinion).
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Aaaahhhh 5x thanks for the clarification. Time to run to the bank and register.
beLIEve
post Aug 25 2019, 05:55 PM

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QUOTE(RigerZ @ Aug 25 2019, 04:08 PM)
Aaaahhhh 5x thanks for the clarification. Time to run to the bank and register.
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Forgotten to say. If pay no good, change job
tweakity
post Aug 26 2019, 11:19 AM

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What about removing some riders in the insurance policy? Leave the bare minimum u feel that you need to sleep better at night

And ya, ASN might be a better choice but u need to spend some time re-re-re-rerying to get units
ckdenion
post Aug 26 2019, 09:24 PM

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QUOTE(RigerZ @ Aug 25 2019, 11:02 AM)
What about A and B?
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QUOTE(RigerZ @ Aug 25 2019, 12:02 PM)
A - Vantagecare (RM170,000 death/critical illness/TPD/policy maturity)
B - Wealth Accumulator 2 (RM75,000 death/TPD/maturity)
C - Smartprotect Max (RM800,000 death/TPD, RM200,000 critical illness)
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hi RigerZ, from the plan stated above
A is a whole life life insurance plan whereby it is more for protection purpose (i see that it has good amount of benefit payout especially for CI)
B is basically just the normal endowment plan
C is a investment linked life insurance (this is the one whereby i will suggest you lower down your premium and see whether can maintain its benefits or not)

A and B premium can be adjusted as well. Of course plans above can be consolidated but you need to let go one plan (maybe). if we are just talking about protection, of course you don't need to commit RM30k for that. you might wanna discuss with your agents to revised the premiums above and try to keep the benefits as much as possible. btw what's your age and occupation? smoker/no smoker?
ckdenion
post Aug 26 2019, 09:28 PM

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QUOTE(RigerZ @ Aug 25 2019, 03:24 PM)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «
"cash value sustains the insurance plan" meaning to say whenever you reach a certain age, your premium paid might not be enough to cover the insurance charges. Company will use your premium + whatever value to cover the insurance charges.

sorry to say that, insurance is not for wealth growth/gain purpose. perhaps you can plan 2 scenarios below and compare
1. consolidate your plans (might lose out) and save and invest the balance into other vehicles)
2. continue with all your insurance plans.

see whether in a long run which one has better results.
yourinfohere
post Aug 27 2019, 01:25 AM

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Ramjade,

If RigerZ in year 2015 is 21 year old, after 44 years, RigerZ 65 year old in year 2058.
If every year RigerZ contributor RM 3600 with yearly 6% dividen.

The RM 3600 when obtain dividen impact the result, so my calculation is RM 715528.91 or RM 677523.60

Can you teach me, how you can get RM 588475.70

I really no what of you, because I thank you always willing share your info and how you do of your money.
Just if I know my wrong, myself not count wrong of my calculation.
Thank you.

QUOTE(Ramjade @ Aug 24 2019, 02:18 PM)
Forget about it. Use EPF instead.
A. Contribute RM3,600 per year indefinitely. By age 65 I would have contributed around RM150,000 but the plan's cash-out value would be around RM450,000. Will be higher if I let it sit longer.
EPF will give you 588,475.70 at 65 years old
neverfap
post Aug 27 2019, 07:11 AM

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QUOTE(yourinfohere @ Aug 27 2019, 01:25 AM)
Ramjade,

If RigerZ in year 2015 is 21 year old, after 44 years, RigerZ 65 year old in year 2058.
If every year RigerZ contributor RM 3600 with yearly 6% dividen.

The RM 3600 when obtain dividen impact the result, so my calculation is RM 715528.91 or RM 677523.60

Can you teach me, how you can get RM 588475.70

I really no what of you, because I thank you always willing share your info and how you do of your money.
Just if I know my wrong, myself not count wrong of my calculation.
Thank you.
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I think Ramjade calculate it from age 26 smile.gif

TSRigerZ
post Aug 27 2019, 08:46 AM

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QUOTE(ckdenion @ Aug 26 2019, 09:28 PM)
"cash value sustains the insurance plan" meaning to say whenever you reach a certain age, your premium paid might not be enough to cover the insurance charges. Company will use your premium + whatever value to cover the insurance charges.

sorry to say that, insurance is not for wealth growth/gain purpose. perhaps you can plan 2 scenarios below and compare
1. consolidate your plans (might lose out) and save and invest the balance into other vehicles)
2. continue with all your insurance plans.

see whether in a long run which one has better results.
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Then why would the plan such be that after 20 years I stop contirbuting premium? If the plan makes me stop contributing but in the later years it uses my cash value to cover the charges, that sounds a bit wrong...

I was thinking of reducing B and C to the minium premium. My agent didnt tell me what is that minimum (evethough I asked him straight) so I would presume it's RM100/month.
kbandito
post Aug 27 2019, 08:57 AM

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QUOTE(ckdenion @ Aug 26 2019, 09:28 PM)
"cash value sustains the insurance plan" meaning to say whenever you reach a certain age, your premium paid might not be enough to cover the insurance charges. Company will use your premium + whatever value to cover the insurance charges.

sorry to say that, insurance is not for wealth growth/gain purpose. perhaps you can plan 2 scenarios below and compare
1. consolidate your plans (might lose out) and save and invest the balance into other vehicles)
2. continue with all your insurance plans.

see whether in a long run which one has better results.
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Don’t forget he started paying for the plan only in the last 5 years, when most fund managers lost your money, and the insurance agent finished claiming his commission.
He will be lucky to see much value left in the plan.
kbandito
post Aug 27 2019, 09:06 AM

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QUOTE(RigerZ @ Aug 27 2019, 08:46 AM)
Then why would the plan such be that after 20 years I stop contirbuting premium? If the plan makes me stop contributing but in the later years it uses my cash value to cover the charges, that sounds a bit wrong...

I was thinking of reducing B and C to the minium premium. My agent didnt tell me what is that minimum (evethough I asked him straight) so I would presume it's RM100/month.
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Yes you might be losing a lot of money for discontinuing the plan now, mainly due to 1) Insurance agent & company has already claimed 30% of what you paid over the last 5 years as commission & distribution cost, and 2) fund managers not performing and earned less than FD over the last 5 years.

You can also bite the bullet and straight up cancel the plan, and buying the online life insurance instead if you are perfectly healthy.
The Etiqa’s online life insurance is the cheapest that I’ve came across - about RM100/ month for RM1 mil life coverage.
https://www.etiqa.com.my/getonline/ezylife

Then buy EPF, ASNB or ETF. You don’t have to pay 1.0-1.5% of your portfolio as fees annually to fund managers that don’t maximize your money during bull market as they don’t want to take additional risk, yet lose money when market is bad.

This post has been edited by kbandito: Aug 27 2019, 09:06 AM
aspartame
post Aug 27 2019, 09:48 AM

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QUOTE(beLIEve @ Aug 25 2019, 03:42 PM)
ohhh now I understand.

if you want easy buy and have spare money lying around :
1. ASM 2 aka Wawasan giving dividend on Sept 1 and reopen for trading on Sept 3. A lot of rich people should be cashing out them dividends. it should be easier to buy on Sept 3 and gets more difficult as days go by.

2. ASM 3 giving dividend on Oct 1. Should be easier to buy on Oct 1 over the same reason.

Newbies get to buy when oldies sell or when ASN adds more units for sale.

not familiar with insurance savings plan. you can try see if can renego for lower commitment. what I've learned from rich people is, they cancelled it once they got rich. It means that you'll probably still need it now. the net amount of money you lose upon maturity is what you pay to get yourself insured (just my opinion).
*
I thought the dividends are pro rated? Meaning that it does not matter when u withdraw but they still calculate for u the period u invested...

Tsukasa
post Aug 27 2019, 09:51 AM

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One more thing. Dont trust those insurance investment plan too much. PLease diversify it to gold, share market, house and etc.

I got a friend who buy insurance investment and pay RM100k for installment. When mature he get back RM50k . Reason the insurance say.. not confirm the P + I and recession. Its like wtf palm face .

Please diversify to a few portfolio and different instrument of investment.
neverfap
post Aug 27 2019, 10:09 AM

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QUOTE(aspartame @ Aug 27 2019, 09:48 AM)
I thought the dividends are pro rated? Meaning that it does not matter when u withdraw but they still calculate for u the period u invested...
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Yes, it's pro rated and it's calculate based on the minimum amount we have for that month.

Ermm. But which sentence that raise this concern for you? Haha. Might have a lil bit misunderstanding here.


QUOTE(Tsukasa @ Aug 27 2019, 09:51 AM)
One more thing. Dont trust those insurance investment plan too much. PLease diversify it to gold, share market, house and etc.

I got a friend who buy insurance investment and pay RM100k for installment. When mature he get back RM50k . Reason the insurance say.. not confirm the P + I and recession. Its like wtf palm face .

Please diversify to a few portfolio and different instrument of investment.
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This. The agent just explain the best case scenario. When asked about the worse case, they just briefly mention a lil bit and back to the best case scenario or sometime ignore completely.


xcxa23
post Aug 27 2019, 10:20 AM

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» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

I kinda got duped into such investment linked scheme
The so called promised return, read carefully the t&c.
Mine got changed few times, citing economy condition
And yes, no gain but loss by at least 20%

I would suggest you, reduce the amount or duration of the installment.

Reason is, based on my experience, the installment you paying, not 100% of the money being invested. Probably only 50%-70% only, varies among policy and company.

And those policies you purchased are until 65-70, why don't you just put in EPF? Capital guarantee and average of 5.5% interest(more or less). And have the flexibility of withdrawal for house purchase.

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