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 Beware of insurance "savings plans"

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Red_rustyjelly
post Aug 24 2019, 08:02 PM

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insurance is insurance, saving plans from insurance are usually just to offset what you pay for your premium, so it make it looks like u don't pay alot, and in return u Might get back some of it in cash value.


neverfap
post Aug 24 2019, 08:07 PM

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QUOTE(Red_rustyjelly @ Aug 24 2019, 08:02 PM)
insurance is insurance, saving plans from insurance are usually just to offset what you pay for your premium, so it make it looks like u don't pay alot, and in return u Might get back some of it in cash value.
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I think the saving plan mentioned here is pure saving plan for retirement?

Edit: Just that the plan is provided by an insurance company
The offset one is called investment linked insurance/plan (ILP) iirc biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by neverfap: Aug 24 2019, 08:09 PM
MUM
post Aug 24 2019, 08:09 PM

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QUOTE(kbandito @ Aug 24 2019, 07:32 PM)
Saving plans or unit trust does not guarantee performance and there is HIGH chance for them to underperform the market, yet they charges you a HIGH upfront sales charge and annual management fees.

ETF and EPF are better bets to me.

A. Contribute RM3,600 per year indefinitely. By age 65 I would have contributed around RM150,000 but the plan's cash-out value would be around RM450,000. Will be higher if I let it sit longer.
Average return over 40+ years for this plan is 4.0-4.5%. Slightly over inflation and underperform EPF.

B. Contribute RM12,000 per year for 20 years (total RM240,000). By my mid 40s I will stop contributing but the cash value continues to grow until whenever I close the account. By age 65 the cash-out value is around RM900,000, RM1.1mil at age 70.
Again this 4.5% return over 40 years, and chances are return is not guaranteed.

C. Contribute RM15,000 per year for 20 years (total RM360,000). By my mid 40s I will stop contributing but the cash value continues to grow until age 55 where the account matures and closes. Cash-out value is around RM700,000.
Same as B

Inflation will kill all the millions that you seemingly obsessed to. At 4% inflation per year until your are 65, RM1 mil at that time is equivalent to RM200k today.
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is the variance of 6% EPF rate - 4~4.5% (= about 1.5~2% pa) equivalent to the cost of insurance paid?
can it be calculated as 3,600 pa x 2% = RM 72 pa?

unsure of the amount of insurance coverage and benefits that comes with that plan.....thus can RigerZ pls tell more so that an almost apple to apple comparison can be made to the above comparison?
(the insurance coverage & benifits are needed to find an alternative almost similar term insurnace plan and its cost pa)

This post has been edited by MUM: Aug 24 2019, 08:12 PM
yenchex
post Aug 24 2019, 08:13 PM

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QUOTE(Ramjade @ Aug 24 2019, 03:01 PM)
Go for those pure FD promos and not those step up/enmark 10-20% into savings account as it will lower your nett interest.

Oh there's unit. 3x a year when they additional units is given to members. That time most people will sell. Can buy during that time. More info are found on asnb link. I like ASNB as it behaves exactly like FD but give higher returns.
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What do u mean "3x a year they additional units..." When 3x in a year happens?
neverfap
post Aug 24 2019, 08:16 PM

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QUOTE(yenchex @ Aug 24 2019, 08:13 PM)
What do u mean "3x a year they additional units..." When 3x in a year happens?
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I think Ramjade meant by the dividend payout date of the 3 fixed priced fund that open for bumis and non bumis

This post has been edited by neverfap: Aug 24 2019, 08:17 PM
TOMEI-R
post Aug 24 2019, 08:25 PM

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This post has been edited by TOMEI-R: Aug 24 2019, 08:26 PM
FutureBuilder
post Aug 24 2019, 08:39 PM

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QUOTE(RigerZ @ Aug 24 2019, 07:59 PM)
How long have you been contributing and if i may ask, how much would you lose?
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Around 5 years, GE wealth accumulator. Had pay around 2Xk if surrender only 5k+. Then I decided to just keep it for future retirement fund and not expected decent earning.
Ramjade
post Aug 24 2019, 08:50 PM

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QUOTE(yenchex @ Aug 24 2019, 08:13 PM)
What do u mean "3x a year they additional units..." When 3x in a year happens?
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One fund paid put once a year. If you hold 3 funds you received, payout 3x a year. Date is found in that thread. Lazy to dig. ASNB I amylaking about is for non bumi. Fixed price version.
TSRigerZ
post Aug 24 2019, 10:15 PM

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QUOTE(MUM @ Aug 24 2019, 08:09 PM)
unsure of the amount of insurance coverage and benefits that comes with that plan.....thus can RigerZ pls tell more so that an almost apple to apple comparison can be made to the above comparison?
(the insurance coverage & benifits are needed to find an alternative almost similar term insurnace plan and its cost pa)
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A. RM170,000 death/critical illness/TPD/policy maturity
B. RM75,000 death/TPD/maturity
C. RM800,000 death/TPD, RM200,000 critical illness
kbandito
post Aug 24 2019, 11:16 PM

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QUOTE(RigerZ @ Aug 24 2019, 10:15 PM)
A. RM170,000 death/critical illness/TPD/policy maturity
B. RM75,000 death/TPD/maturity
C. RM800,000 death/TPD, RM200,000 critical illness
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Check how much is the actual medical premium out of the contribution. Mixing both investment and medical coverage is just a trick to confuse the average person IMO.
neverfap
post Aug 24 2019, 11:35 PM

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QUOTE(kbandito @ Aug 24 2019, 11:16 PM)
Check how much is the actual medical premium out of the contribution. Mixing both investment and medical coverage is just a trick to confuse the average person IMO.
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Second this

Also, make sure you are not over insured.

Ask yourselves, do you need to insure yourself with this amount of money?
If something happened, is the amount really needed by your dependents?
TSRigerZ
post Aug 25 2019, 12:06 AM

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QUOTE(kbandito @ Aug 24 2019, 11:16 PM)
Check how much is the actual medical premium out of the contribution. Mixing both investment and medical coverage is just a trick to confuse the average person IMO.
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The policy books really show the savings/medical premium as combined

QUOTE(neverfap @ Aug 24 2019, 11:35 PM)

Ask yourselves, do you need to insure yourself with this amount of money?
If something happened, is the amount really needed by your dependents?
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Yes RM800,000 is too much. But on the other hand funeral & medical costs keep increasing too.
adele123
post Aug 25 2019, 12:25 AM

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QUOTE(RigerZ @ Aug 24 2019, 10:15 PM)
A. RM170,000 death/critical illness/TPD/policy maturity
B. RM75,000 death/TPD/maturity
C. RM800,000 death/TPD, RM200,000 critical illness
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Actually not all of them looks like savings plan. Maybe got hope. Need to study a bit on it. How to use the money inside your insurance plan to cover. This could be your best shot. If not, then you might need a slight expert to help.

The last one does not look like savings plan. Then again, your premium very expensive.

All hope is not lost, although i do think cut loss might be easier. Buying insurance should not need FD money to cover.


Holocene
post Aug 25 2019, 08:08 AM

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QUOTE(adele123 @ Aug 25 2019, 12:25 AM)
Actually not all of them looks like savings plan. Maybe got hope. Need to study a bit on it. How to use the money inside your insurance plan to cover. This could be your best shot. If not, then  you might need a slight expert to help.

The last one does not look like savings plan. Then again, your premium very expensive.

All hope is not lost, although i do think cut loss might be easier. Buying insurance should not need FD money to cover.
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Second this. Please share with us the policy name and we might be able to assist you with your predicament.

Best,
Jiansheng
toos99
post Aug 25 2019, 08:24 AM

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This post has been edited by toos99: Jan 29 2023, 03:44 PM
TSRigerZ
post Aug 25 2019, 09:40 AM

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QUOTE(adele123 @ Aug 25 2019, 12:25 AM)
How to use the money inside your insurance plan to cover. This could be your best shot. If not, then  you might need a slight expert to help.

The last one does not look like savings plan. Then again, your premium very expensive.

All hope is not lost, although i do think cut loss might be easier. Buying insurance should not need FD money to cover.
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I'm not sure what is meant by "use the money inside the plan to cover"

Yes the last one I see it as a life insurance, hence the big payout upon death. My agent stressed on the savings part when he sold me this.


QUOTE(Holocene @ Aug 25 2019, 08:08 AM)
Please share with us the policy name and we might be able to assist you with your predicament.

Best,
Jiansheng
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I'm sorry but what does exposing the name have to do with anything?

QUOTE(toos99 @ Aug 25 2019, 08:24 AM)
Not sure why some plan to have so many insurance cum savings plan at such an age. Age * risk * dependents are relatively low for a person your age. At your age, the plan is to grow wealth.

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My agent sold me these as retirement plans and all the insurance payouts were brushed aside. Again, he saw someone naive who knew nothing about finances and took the opportunity.

ckdenion
post Aug 25 2019, 09:57 AM

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QUOTE(RigerZ @ Aug 24 2019, 02:06 PM)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «
Hi RigerZ, check with your agent to reduce some of the insurance commitments especially those with not much insurance benefits (not for life insurance/CI/medical purpose). Also if you will like to see an overview of your financial position, that will be better as you can see the whole picture and works towards your financial goal.
SUSyklooi
post Aug 25 2019, 10:13 AM

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QUOTE(RigerZ @ Aug 24 2019, 02:06 PM)
..........
After I changed jobs last year (New job dont have incentives and commission. Admittedly this was a financial mistake), I did not get the increment and bonus I expected due to "below average company performance". It looks like it may be the same next year.

Long story short, I predict my total income next year to be just barely enough to cover living costs (and I live quite minimally) and contribute to my savings plans. There may not be surplus (or very little) for emergency funds and unforseen expenses.

I have about RM50,000 in F.D and thinking of putting a portion of them in other investment options.
I am looking around for a better paying job.

In case of a serious emergency I can still withdraw from any of the above savings plans but the lost amount will have a compounded effect on the future cash-out value unless I return the money soon enough.
Hint: mum is 63y.o, dad is 68.

Would appreciate your advice and feedback on my situation.
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hmm.gif after 2 pages of postings and comments by forummers for the past 2 days...
what is your take on all these? what is your next moves?

seems like you can still enough to covers your expenses and insurance premium...just that the topping of saving for emergency fund of RM50k and investment fund is lagging and hard to come by .....

btw,...does yr aged parents has any sort of medical protection or risk mitigation plans?

if you ask me, about your query...
YES, you are overly committed to retirement saving with these almost similar kind of retirement plans with these kind of projected future payout rate at your current age and liabilities.


TSRigerZ
post Aug 25 2019, 10:25 AM

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QUOTE(yklooi @ Aug 25 2019, 10:13 AM)

what is your take on all these? what is your next moves?


btw,...does yr aged parents has any sort of medical protection or risk mitigation plans?


if you ask me, about your query...
YES, you are overly committed to retirement saving with these almost similar kind of retirement plans with these kind of projected future payout rate at your current age and liabilities.
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I'm strongly considering to cancel one/some/all these policies.

No my parents were never financially educated and dont have any medical coverage/protection. My dad has life insurance but I'm not sure how much

SUSyklooi
post Aug 25 2019, 10:33 AM

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QUOTE(RigerZ @ Aug 25 2019, 10:25 AM)
I'm strongly considering to cancel one/some/all these policies.

No my parents were never financially educated and dont have any medical coverage/protection. My dad has life insurance but I'm not sure how much
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ok....
unless you have other siblings to chip in,
unless if things happens, that thing can wait for it longer, Govt hospital is a good choice for most people

else that RM50K in FD as emergency fund for yr current situation is sweat.gif


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