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 Beware of insurance "savings plans"

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TSRigerZ
post Aug 28 2019, 10:53 PM

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QUOTE(ckdenion @ Aug 28 2019, 04:16 PM)
Glad to hear that RigerZ. at least things are working out. honestly, i have no hard questions for you to throw. i guess the best is you judge whether he stands at your best interest or not. you yourself can feel it within his conversation with you. so yea... im also not in the best place to ask you to cancel everything off because i don't know your financial position and don't know your financial needs and goals.
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I've gone through the policy books and found:

Plans A and B can be converted to paid-up assurance plans (stop paying premium, no more savings value, purely protection only) at a reduced sum assured. I guess if I'm going to stop any further losses this will be my option.



Plan C has the Critical Illness rider (RM200,000 payout) and Premium Waiver rider in case of TPD/CI. For protection sake these look like worth keeping? The insurance charge reaches a maximum of RM1420 in the final policy year

The basic insurance charge reaches a maximum of RM3087 (!!) in the final year. It doesnt say what is the minimum allowed sum assured except for "as determined by the Company".

This post has been edited by RigerZ: Aug 28 2019, 10:58 PM
ytan053
post Aug 29 2019, 07:40 AM

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QUOTE(RigerZ @ Aug 24 2019, 02:06 PM)
I started working when I was 21 and now 26.

My first job of 4 years had performance incentives and commission. Times were good and I started 3 savings plans introduced by my insurance agent (the plans are from the insurance company itself). The plans are as follows:

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


After I changed jobs last year (New job dont have incentives and commission. Admittedly this was a financial mistake), I did not get the increment and bonus I expected due to "below average company performance". It looks like it may be the same next year.

Long story short, I predict my total income next year to be just barely enough to cover living costs (and I live quite minimally) and contribute to my savings plans. There may not be surplus (or very little) for emergency funds and unforseen expenses.

I have about RM50,000 in F.D and thinking of putting a portion of them in other investment options.
I am looking around for a better paying job.

In case of a serious emergency I can still withdraw from any of the above savings plans but the lost amount will have a compounded effect on the future cash-out value unless I return the money soon enough.
Hint: mum is 63y.o, dad is 68.

Would appreciate your advice and feedback on my situation.
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Why not u look for a proper advice and direction on how to move forward with your financial?

Having emergency fund is good, but placing it in a better return (other than amanah saham fixed price) can be a better option

No more buying saving plan and try not to touch it , else u lose a fair bit. Getting a professional to advise you based on your overall situation may shed a better light to you, rather than hunting from ppl who r doing from their own experience . Anyway it's free analysis and no selling of products involved if the person is a real professional
ckdenion
post Aug 29 2019, 09:38 AM

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QUOTE(RigerZ @ Aug 28 2019, 10:53 PM)
I've gone through the policy books and found:

Plans A and B can be converted to paid-up assurance plans (stop paying premium, no more savings value, purely protection only) at a reduced sum assured. I guess if I'm going to stop any further losses this will be my option.
Plan C has the Critical Illness rider (RM200,000 payout) and Premium Waiver rider in case of TPD/CI. For protection sake these look like worth keeping? The insurance charge reaches a maximum of RM1420 in the final policy year

The basic insurance charge reaches a maximum of RM3087 (!!) in the final year. It doesnt say what is the minimum allowed sum assured except for "as determined by the Company".
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There are many choices that you can do with your plan. A more concern issue for me is because we are just discussing on these 3 plans you have now without knowing other details (your regular monthly expenses, asset liabilities, any other existing investment and etc). Best is to discuss this with your agent because i believe your agent knows more details than us. Good thing is that adjustment can still be made. biggrin.gif

QUOTE(ytan053 @ Aug 29 2019, 07:40 AM)
Why not u look for a proper advice and direction on how to move forward with your financial?

Having emergency fund is good, but placing it in a better return (other than amanah saham fixed price) can be a better option

No more buying saving plan and try not to touch it , else u lose a fair bit. Getting a professional to advise you based on your overall situation may shed a better light to you, rather than hunting from ppl who r doing from their own experience . Anyway it's free analysis and no selling of products involved if the person is a real professional
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Licensed advisors don't give free analysis. Those that give free mostly are not licensed (saying me myself as I'm not licensed yet tongue.gif ) so long can give advise and not from product perspective, clients actually can sense that.
kbandito
post Aug 29 2019, 10:39 AM

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I have a self-built mechanism within myself to not trust everything that an agent says, be it insurance agents, property agents or fund managers.
Consistently I find 50% of their opinions are BS and not aligned to your best interest, even my best friend who is my insurance agent and is also one of the top ranked agents in GE.
ytan053
post Aug 29 2019, 02:09 PM

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QUOTE(ckdenion @ Aug 29 2019, 09:38 AM)
There are many choices that you can do with your plan. A more concern issue for me is because we are just discussing on these 3 plans you have now without knowing other details (your regular monthly expenses, asset liabilities, any other existing investment and etc). Best is to discuss this with your agent because i believe your agent knows more details than us. Good thing is that adjustment can still be made. biggrin.gif
Licensed advisors don't give free analysis. Those that give free mostly are not licensed (saying me myself as I'm not licensed yet tongue.gif ) so long can give advise and not from product perspective, clients actually can sense that.
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I am full fledged independent financial advisor with full license. Free analysis is only on the surface. To go deeper, then need to pay fee and do a thorough analysis. We always offer free second opinion / free consultation, for the first time. If there is value, then client move forward. Like u said, client can sense it. That's why I don't sell products and more from personal finance perspective.
ckdenion
post Aug 29 2019, 03:02 PM

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QUOTE(kbandito @ Aug 29 2019, 10:39 AM)
I have a self-built mechanism within myself to not trust everything that an agent says, be it insurance agents, property agents or fund managers.
Consistently I find 50% of their opinions are BS and not aligned to your best interest, even my best friend who is my insurance agent and is also one of the top ranked agents in GE.
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Most people won't fully trust what agents say. That's y can see more discussions about insurance whether in forums or Facebook. It's good to always do own homework reason being to make the best decision for ourselves. I prefer my clients to be smarter than agents as well. biggrin.gif

QUOTE(ytan053 @ Aug 29 2019, 02:09 PM)
I am full fledged independent financial advisor with full license. Free analysis is only on the surface. To go deeper, then need to pay fee and do a thorough analysis. We always offer free second opinion / free consultation, for the first time. If there is value, then client move forward. Like u said, client can sense it. That's why I don't sell products and more from personal finance perspective.
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Ah okay then I understand where you come from. Yea normally free analysis are simple ones. In depth one it takes discussions to finalize things out. Hope got chance to learn from you notworthy.gif
TSRigerZ
post Sep 7 2019, 03:28 PM

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QUOTE(RigerZ @ Aug 25 2019, 12:02 PM)
A - Vantagecare (RM170,000 death/critical illness/TPD/policy maturity)
B - Wealth Accumulator 2 (RM75,000 death/TPD/maturity)
C - Smartprotect Max (RM800,000 death/TPD, RM200,000 critical illness)
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Update: I've met my agent and revised as follows:

A - convert to paid-up assurance (RM72,000 death/critical illness/TPD/policy maturity)
B - convert to paid-up assurance (RM40,000 death/TPD/maturity)
C - reduce to RM2,400 per year minimum premium (RM500,000 death/TPD, RM200,000 critical illness)

Add:

QUOTE(kbandito @ Aug 25 2019, 02:42 PM)
Great Eastern uses 7-8% for their investment return, but the fact is
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I was given this by my agent:

user posted image

This post has been edited by RigerZ: Sep 8 2019, 10:03 PM
ckdenion
post Sep 10 2019, 11:24 PM

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QUOTE(RigerZ @ Sep 7 2019, 03:28 PM)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «
hi RigerZ. Indeed a good update from you. For GE Fixed Income fund, the average expected annual return is between 4.5%-5%.
MUM
post Sep 10 2019, 11:33 PM

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QUOTE(RigerZ @ Sep 7 2019, 03:28 PM)
.....
Add:
I was given this by my agent:
...........
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from Bloomberg....

Great Eastern LION Fixed Income Fund
https://www.bloomberg.com/quote/GELNFIF:MK


Attached thumbnail(s)
Attached Image
kbandito
post Sep 11 2019, 09:11 AM

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Yes the Fixed Income Fund averages about 5% in the last 5 years, but the Progressive and Balanced Funds made nothing or lost money.
I doubt many chose the fixed income fund thou.

This post has been edited by kbandito: Sep 11 2019, 09:11 AM
TSRigerZ
post Sep 11 2019, 09:29 AM

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QUOTE(ckdenion @ Sep 10 2019, 11:24 PM)
hi RigerZ. Indeed a good update from you. For GE Fixed Income fund, the average expected annual return is between 4.5%-5%.
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Thanks for your advice biggrin.gif



QUOTE(MUM @ Sep 10 2019, 11:33 PM)
from Bloomberg....

Great Eastern LION Fixed Income Fund
https://www.bloomberg.com/quote/GELNFIF:MK
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QUOTE(kbandito @ Sep 11 2019, 09:11 AM)
Yes the Fixed Income Fund averages about 5% in the last 5 years, but the Progressive and Balanced Funds made nothing or lost money.
I doubt many chose the fixed income fund thou.
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Yup I did research all the funds that were linked to my policy. 2 of them averaged 6%, another 2 about 1-2%, and the other 2 were negative.

But then how come the PHS that my agent showed is so high? Did GE manipulate the numbers or something?
kbandito
post Sep 11 2019, 09:47 AM

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QUOTE(RigerZ @ Sep 11 2019, 09:29 AM)
Thanks for your advice biggrin.gif
Yup I did research all the funds that were linked to my policy. 2 of them averaged 6%, another 2 about 1-2%, and the other 2 were negative.

But then how come the PHS that my agent showed is so high? Did GE manipulate the numbers or something?
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I don't think anyone manipulated the numbers.
But it is obvious that your agent was trying to only show you the 'positive news', i.e. showing 1-year return instead of a long-term 10-year which makes more sense because your policy will be decades long. Also I bet you do not know what's the % allocation of your funds, maybe the Fixed Income is only 10% of your total fund while the rest goes to the negative ones.
rapple
post Sep 11 2019, 09:49 AM

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QUOTE(RigerZ @ Sep 11 2019, 09:29 AM)
But then how come the PHS that my agent showed is so high? Did GE manipulate the numbers or something?
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He showed you the past return.

Past return doesn't indicate you will get the same in the future.
SUSyklooi
post Sep 11 2019, 09:50 AM

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QUOTE(RigerZ @ Sep 11 2019, 09:29 AM)
Thanks for your advice biggrin.gif
Yup I did research all the funds that were linked to my policy. 2 of them averaged 6%, another 2 about 1-2%, and the other 2 were negative.

But then how come the PHS that my agent showed is so high? Did GE manipulate the numbers or something?
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is this number as in the PHS as per your just posted image in post # 107? the one you made a RED circle over the 8.8%?
if yes,...I think your agent did not manipulate it....it is just returns of that fund.
your plan may consists of a few funds....
if you happens to select just that fund.....then good
but if your selection was consisted of a few funds....then it averages out.
(Past performance is not an indicative of future or continuous performance of the fund)

This post has been edited by yklooi: Sep 11 2019, 09:54 AM
neverfap
post Sep 11 2019, 09:51 AM

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QUOTE(kbandito @ Sep 11 2019, 09:47 AM)
I don't think anyone manipulated the numbers.
But it is obvious that your agent was trying to only show you the 'positive news', i.e. showing 1-year return instead of a long-term 10-year which makes more sense because your policy will be decades long. Also I bet you do not know what's the % allocation of your funds, maybe the Fixed Income is only 10% of your total fund while the rest goes to the negative ones.
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Second this too
Btw is the return post management/fund fees?
Dratini
post Sep 11 2019, 10:50 AM

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It's good that you started investing for retirement when you are still so young.

IMHO:
Insurances are good for 2 things, insure your life, and insure your health.

Never go for Investment/Savings plan offered by Insurances, because the moment you pay your 'monthly contribution', a portion of your contribution will be the fees for insurances/agent.
and the worst part is, the return is not even that good.

Apart from EPF, there are other tools for investments, invest wisely.
TSRigerZ
post Sep 11 2019, 11:36 AM

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QUOTE(kbandito @ Sep 11 2019, 09:47 AM)
I don't think anyone manipulated the numbers.
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QUOTE(rapple @ Sep 11 2019, 09:49 AM)
He showed you the past return.
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QUOTE(yklooi @ Sep 11 2019, 09:50 AM)
it is just returns of that fund.
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Then what does the Bloomberg report show since the returns % is so different? confused.gif

QUOTE(Dratini @ Sep 11 2019, 10:50 AM)
IMHO:
Insurances are good for 2 things, insure your life, and insure your health.

Never go for Investment/Savings plan offered by Insurances, because the moment you pay your 'monthly contribution', a portion of your contribution will be the fees for insurances/agent.
and the worst part is, the return is not even that good.
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Yup I've learned it the unpleasant way. Luckily I asked here for advice.

In fact my agent still tried to brainwash me to maintain the plans when I went to see him.

MUM
post Sep 11 2019, 11:38 AM

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QUOTE(RigerZ @ Sep 11 2019, 11:36 AM)
Then what does the Bloomberg report show since the returns % is so different?  confused.gif
...
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compare the date to date ?
compare the start date to end date of compilation?
neverfap
post Sep 11 2019, 11:44 AM

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QUOTE(RigerZ @ Sep 11 2019, 11:36 AM)
Then what does the Bloomberg report show since the returns % is so different?  :confused:
Yup I've learned it the unpleasant way. Luckily I asked here for advice.

In fact my agent still tried to brainwash me to maintain the plans when I went to see him.
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Red flag, he's been sucking so much from you but still wanna keep on doing so even after you told him you have challenges in maintaining the plan and sustain your daily expenses.

Had a similar agent before this, I just drop the plan and get a new one from another company.

budang
post Sep 11 2019, 12:08 PM

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QUOTE(Ramjade @ Aug 24 2019, 02:18 PM)
Forget about it. Use EPF instead.
A. Contribute RM3,600 per year indefinitely. By age 65 I would have contributed around RM150,000 but the plan's cash-out value would be around RM450,000. Will be higher if I let it sit longer.
EPF will give you 588,475.70 at 65 years old

B. Contribute RM12,000 per year for 20 years (total RM240,000). By my mid 40s I will stop contributing but the cash value continues to grow until whenever I close the account. By age 65 the cash-out value is around RM900,000, RM1.1mil at age 70.
EPF will give you 1,532,158.60 at 65 years old

C. Contribute RM15,000 per year for 20 years (total RM360,000). By my mid 40s I will stop contributing but the cash value continues to grow until age 55 where the account matures and closes. Cash-out value is around RM700,000
EPF will give you 1,915,198.22 at 65 years old

Assuming 6% return from EPF.
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Eye opener. Thanks for sharing!

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