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 Beware of insurance "savings plans"

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ckdenion
post Aug 25 2019, 09:57 AM

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QUOTE(RigerZ @ Aug 24 2019, 02:06 PM)
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Hi RigerZ, check with your agent to reduce some of the insurance commitments especially those with not much insurance benefits (not for life insurance/CI/medical purpose). Also if you will like to see an overview of your financial position, that will be better as you can see the whole picture and works towards your financial goal.
ckdenion
post Aug 26 2019, 09:24 PM

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QUOTE(RigerZ @ Aug 25 2019, 11:02 AM)
What about A and B?
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QUOTE(RigerZ @ Aug 25 2019, 12:02 PM)
A - Vantagecare (RM170,000 death/critical illness/TPD/policy maturity)
B - Wealth Accumulator 2 (RM75,000 death/TPD/maturity)
C - Smartprotect Max (RM800,000 death/TPD, RM200,000 critical illness)
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hi RigerZ, from the plan stated above
A is a whole life life insurance plan whereby it is more for protection purpose (i see that it has good amount of benefit payout especially for CI)
B is basically just the normal endowment plan
C is a investment linked life insurance (this is the one whereby i will suggest you lower down your premium and see whether can maintain its benefits or not)

A and B premium can be adjusted as well. Of course plans above can be consolidated but you need to let go one plan (maybe). if we are just talking about protection, of course you don't need to commit RM30k for that. you might wanna discuss with your agents to revised the premiums above and try to keep the benefits as much as possible. btw what's your age and occupation? smoker/no smoker?
ckdenion
post Aug 26 2019, 09:28 PM

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QUOTE(RigerZ @ Aug 25 2019, 03:24 PM)
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"cash value sustains the insurance plan" meaning to say whenever you reach a certain age, your premium paid might not be enough to cover the insurance charges. Company will use your premium + whatever value to cover the insurance charges.

sorry to say that, insurance is not for wealth growth/gain purpose. perhaps you can plan 2 scenarios below and compare
1. consolidate your plans (might lose out) and save and invest the balance into other vehicles)
2. continue with all your insurance plans.

see whether in a long run which one has better results.
ckdenion
post Aug 27 2019, 10:25 AM

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QUOTE(RigerZ @ Aug 27 2019, 08:46 AM)
Then why would the plan such be that after 20 years I stop contirbuting premium? If the plan makes me stop contributing but in the later years it uses my cash value to cover the charges, that sounds a bit wrong...

I was thinking of reducing B and C to the minium premium. My agent didnt tell me what is that minimum (evethough I asked him straight) so I would presume it's RM100/month.
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Hi RigerZ, you can actually check the details in policy contract document. Definitely when you stop paying premium after 20th year (for C), there will be insurance charges that will be deducted from your cash value because you are still insured with the benefits.

For B, the minimum sum assured is RM10,000. So you can calculate based on the sum assured and premium you are paying now.

For C, it is kinda impossible to make is 100/month due to the minimum needed 500k sum assured. So you might wanna tell your agent how much coverage you actually want (so he can reduce based on sum assured then give you the minimum premium needed for the revised sum assured)

QUOTE(kbandito @ Aug 27 2019, 08:57 AM)
Don’t forget he started paying for the plan only in the last 5 years, when most fund managers lost your money, and the insurance agent finished claiming his commission.
He will be lucky to see much value left in the plan.
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Hi kbandito. Thanks for mentioning that. For me I will always focus on buying insurance because of the protection. Yea i'm aware of many agents selling it as a return in the future. I guess this needs to be corrected to gain market's trust and confidence again.

QUOTE(Tsukasa @ Aug 27 2019, 09:51 AM)
One more thing. Dont trust those insurance investment plan too much. PLease diversify it to gold, share market, house and etc.

I got a friend who buy insurance investment and pay RM100k for installment. When mature he get back RM50k . Reason the insurance say.. not confirm the P + I and recession. Its like wtf palm face .

Please diversify to a few portfolio and different instrument of investment.
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Hi Tsukasa. I'm eager to know what your friend bought. 100k instalment for how many years? 50k maturity benefit is unacceptable (or maybe the protection is super high?).
ckdenion
post Aug 28 2019, 04:16 PM

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QUOTE(RigerZ @ Aug 28 2019, 09:43 AM)
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Glad to hear that RigerZ. at least things are working out. honestly, i have no hard questions for you to throw. i guess the best is you judge whether he stands at your best interest or not. you yourself can feel it within his conversation with you. so yea... im also not in the best place to ask you to cancel everything off because i don't know your financial position and don't know your financial needs and goals.
ckdenion
post Aug 29 2019, 09:38 AM

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QUOTE(RigerZ @ Aug 28 2019, 10:53 PM)
I've gone through the policy books and found:

Plans A and B can be converted to paid-up assurance plans (stop paying premium, no more savings value, purely protection only) at a reduced sum assured. I guess if I'm going to stop any further losses this will be my option.
Plan C has the Critical Illness rider (RM200,000 payout) and Premium Waiver rider in case of TPD/CI. For protection sake these look like worth keeping? The insurance charge reaches a maximum of RM1420 in the final policy year

The basic insurance charge reaches a maximum of RM3087 (!!) in the final year. It doesnt say what is the minimum allowed sum assured except for "as determined by the Company".
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There are many choices that you can do with your plan. A more concern issue for me is because we are just discussing on these 3 plans you have now without knowing other details (your regular monthly expenses, asset liabilities, any other existing investment and etc). Best is to discuss this with your agent because i believe your agent knows more details than us. Good thing is that adjustment can still be made. biggrin.gif

QUOTE(ytan053 @ Aug 29 2019, 07:40 AM)
Why not u look for a proper advice and direction on how to move forward with your financial?

Having emergency fund is good, but placing it in a better return (other than amanah saham fixed price) can be a better option

No more buying saving plan and try not to touch it , else u lose a fair bit. Getting a professional to advise you based on your overall situation may shed a better light to you, rather than hunting from ppl who r doing from their own experience . Anyway it's free analysis and no selling of products involved if the person is a real professional
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Licensed advisors don't give free analysis. Those that give free mostly are not licensed (saying me myself as I'm not licensed yet tongue.gif ) so long can give advise and not from product perspective, clients actually can sense that.
ckdenion
post Aug 29 2019, 03:02 PM

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QUOTE(kbandito @ Aug 29 2019, 10:39 AM)
I have a self-built mechanism within myself to not trust everything that an agent says, be it insurance agents, property agents or fund managers.
Consistently I find 50% of their opinions are BS and not aligned to your best interest, even my best friend who is my insurance agent and is also one of the top ranked agents in GE.
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Most people won't fully trust what agents say. That's y can see more discussions about insurance whether in forums or Facebook. It's good to always do own homework reason being to make the best decision for ourselves. I prefer my clients to be smarter than agents as well. biggrin.gif

QUOTE(ytan053 @ Aug 29 2019, 02:09 PM)
I am full fledged independent financial advisor with full license. Free analysis is only on the surface. To go deeper, then need to pay fee and do a thorough analysis. We always offer free second opinion / free consultation, for the first time. If there is value, then client move forward. Like u said, client can sense it. That's why I don't sell products and more from personal finance perspective.
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Ah okay then I understand where you come from. Yea normally free analysis are simple ones. In depth one it takes discussions to finalize things out. Hope got chance to learn from you notworthy.gif
ckdenion
post Sep 10 2019, 11:24 PM

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QUOTE(RigerZ @ Sep 7 2019, 03:28 PM)
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hi RigerZ. Indeed a good update from you. For GE Fixed Income fund, the average expected annual return is between 4.5%-5%.
ckdenion
post Apr 29 2020, 12:00 AM

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QUOTE(RigerZ @ Apr 28 2020, 08:47 PM)
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Hi RigerZ, I can't comment much on this specifically to your needs as I have no idea how's your financial status. in general, i will make sure medical and critical illness (plan for 3-5 years of income protection/replacement during the recuperation period) is enough first. then for life insurance, in general, 8-10 years of income protection. there are various ways. btw, your premium is how much % of your gross income?
ckdenion
post Apr 29 2020, 04:34 PM

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QUOTE(RigerZ @ Apr 29 2020, 08:50 AM)
Hi, how much detail would you need to know about my financial status?
Currently earning RM4k per month.
My monthly expenses is about half of my net income, the balance would now go to investing/savings.
My critical illness cover now is RM172k
Life insurance is as per A, B and C.

However, policy C automatically closes at age 55 and pays out cash value only

Combined with my medical insurance it's about 12%.
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okay, what is the current insurance plan you have. i remember you mentioning Plan B you are paying 12k and Plan C paying 15k. what are the changes that you have made so far to your Plan A,B, and C? and for your medical plan it is a separate one (not in A,B, and C) right?
ckdenion
post Apr 29 2020, 08:27 PM

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QUOTE(RigerZ @ Apr 29 2020, 05:12 PM)
Hi Denion, the changes are below:

A - convert to paid-up assurance (RM72,000 death/critical illness/policy maturity at age 85)
B - convert to paid-up assurance (RM40,000 death/maturity at age 65)
C - reduce to RM2,400 per year minimum premium (RM500,000 death OR cash value payout at age 55, whichever first)
I have medical policy a (Smartmedic Xtra with Extender) which is totally separate from plans A, B and C, and another life policy that my dad bought for me after I was born, but not too sure how much is the sum insured. I only know that he made the yearly cash bonus pay for the premium.
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ok RigerZ, I'd chart out things that you'd provided. so far i dont see difficulty for you to retain what you have at the moment. if you were to maintain what you currently have at your current lifestyle and expenses, your insurance will be enough to cover you for 3-5 years recuperation period in the event of critical illness. TPD payout can cover you 10 years of your living expenses too. (I'm assuming that you are paying RM480 per month for your Plan C and Medical plan), your premium is 12% of your income sounds okay for me too at the moment. whatever balance you have now, you can diversify and invest.
ckdenion
post Apr 29 2020, 10:13 PM

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QUOTE(RigerZ @ Apr 29 2020, 08:43 PM)
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ok. for the death payout and TPD will be the same coverage. so it will be like this:
Total death payout: RM712,000 (before age 55) / RM212,000 (after age 55) / RM172,000 (after age 65)
Total TPD: RM712,000 (before age 55) / RM212,000 (after age 55) / RM172,000 (after age 65)

smile.gif
ckdenion
post Apr 30 2020, 09:50 AM

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QUOTE(RigerZ @ Apr 29 2020, 10:30 PM)
I should clarify that policies A & B no longer have TPD benefits after I converted to paid-up assurance.
Whereas policy C states it will calculate the TPD cover as:
(Sum assured + supplementary sum assured) - (total investment value)

But in any case, is it about time we mentioned EPF as a worthy additional cover ?
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ok, i missed out the paid-up assurance part. yeap, EPF can consider as part of the asset to cover in case of disability/critical illness event.
ckdenion
post Dec 1 2020, 11:16 PM

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QUOTE(RigerZ @ Dec 1 2020, 08:14 AM)
Do you think this will help my case?
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hi Rigerz, based on this chat log, the most mis-leading info is the one mentioning save 15k for 20 years = 300k and the profit per year part (this is how most insurance agent misled customers to buy plans like this). it is misleading BUT since it is shown to you the illustration, it is also assumed that you look through and agree with the illustration. so if really wanna complain, the chance is 50/50. if can settle this issue, try to settle direct with the agent first. because the plan is bought for like 3 years+? so kinda tough though.
ckdenion
post Dec 1 2020, 11:23 PM

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QUOTE(RigerZ @ Dec 1 2020, 11:20 PM)
exactly thats the problem, he keeps on delaying his promises and giving excuses. now I cant tell if he's for real or not.
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if keep delaying, next thing you can do is bring this to GE then if GE cant solve then only to BNM. hope that by giving your agent this "trouble" he will do something. oh ya, about the 15k, is it ILP? if yes then actually cant really use the term "saving". and the way the agent put it "average profit over 30 years" is wrong too. so you can use these few statements from him to complain to GE first. no need to go till needing lawyer first (if can dont spend this cost), try to solve it within GE and BNM first.
ckdenion
post Dec 1 2020, 11:53 PM

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QUOTE(RigerZ @ Dec 1 2020, 11:35 PM)
The thing is, he threatens to engage his lawyer if I escalate this to GE.

Yes the 15k was an ILP - Smartprotect Max
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trust me, he wont do so. it is your right to bring this to GE also. worst case scenario also GE will explain to you and call this matter off then only you bring this to BNM with all the conversation you have with GE.

SmartProtect Max isn't a saving plan. the grey area is that it isn't a saving plan BUT you can treat it as a plan to save PROVIDED you know the TnC well (knowing what are the charges incurred). It is more to an investment-linked life insurance. Chances of getting the "compensation" back from agent/company is kinda difficult though because it is already 3 years. Usually, company will use this reason stating something like this "the policy contract is already with you for years and you didn't bring this up until few years later". I know it sounds harsh, anyway you can still try.

To me I will just say that you spend money to know that the agent isn't that trustworthy. at least if your agent dont escape from this responsibility, then i think things can still be discussed.

 

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