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This post has been edited by geekystef: Nov 21 2020, 06:30 PM

Not a sifu here, but from a normal guy perspective.

Sub sale need 10% deposit, SNP fees, sum up around 15% of house price.

New development no need. With HOC, now people still got 10% discount.

Seems like gov try very hard to push sales for developer.

If I am looking for house, I will look for new development instead of subsale on the market unless the price is really attractive to cover the 15% difference.

This post has been edited by joey2000: Jul 20 2019, 12:57 PM

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This post has been edited by geekystef: Nov 21 2020, 06:14 PM

Likely asking price is unrealistically high, that's why few if any are interested.

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This post has been edited by geekystef: Nov 21 2020, 06:14 PM

Mainly because the market had softened a bit and everyone knows it, especially the buyers. They want to flex their muscles now knowing that the stagnant market offers them plenty of choices and so the market stagnates even further. This is a waiting game by the buyers hoping to catch a property bubble and pick up cheap prices if it happens.

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This post has been edited by geekystef: Nov 21 2020, 06:14 PM

How much loan interest, maintenance fees has incurred since you put up for sale? How much loan interest, maintenance fees you prepare to pay before it is sold?

If no one ask mean no buyer is interested e.g price too high.

This post has been edited by icemanfx: Jul 20 2019, 02:14 PM

Bubble won't happen in prime areas(Klang Valley, Jalan Kuching, Damansara etc),yes it could happen but the impact is not significant as developers are more cautious about the situation.

It is not smart move if buyers keep waiting for the price goes down. If you have opportunities to grab good location with decent price and offers just buy sooner or later the price will goes up

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This post has been edited by geekystef: Nov 21 2020, 06:15 PM

Unfortunately, I hate to tell you that there is no bubble at this point in time.

This is a normal market cycle which goes up and down. The long term trend is always up. If you can hold on, hold longer.

A lot of people feel that a bubble has formed because of the rapid growth of property prices from 2009 - 2013. But property prices have more than doubled since the financial crisis in 98.

What if let's say this theoretical "bubble" pops. How much of correction are we looking at? 10%? 20%? Will this be overnight?

Realistically, this will not happen. Since 2014 - 2019 there has been a drop in prices of about 20% but that is a slow gradual landing. (Mostly in the secondary market).

Because anything more than 30% drop will cause a recession in Malaysia that will take many years to get out of. BNM and the government in charge will intervene and drop interest rates to keep the economy growing and get it out of the rut (so to speak).

If you really observe, developers are selling at more affordable prices now (We are seeing 3xxk, 4xxk launches, the norm in 2014 was about 5xxk and above) but that comes with a cost of higher density and smaller sizes.

There is a softer demand for sub-sale properties because of the HOC. There is, of course, plenty of deals now in the secondary market because of this.

If you are selling, I recommend you hold your horses and wait it out. My 2 cents.

You may consider rent out your unit instead, kuchai lama should have the demand

Or you can wait few more years until mrt complete then see if your property got demand or not

Unless buyer has enough cash on hand to get subsale or urgently in need of a house to stay, else most of the buyer will rather go for rumahwip or new launch, and there is quite are quite a few new launch in kuchai lama recently

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This post has been edited by geekystef: Nov 21 2020, 06:15 PM

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This post has been edited by geekystef: Nov 21 2020, 06:15 PM

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This post has been edited by geekystef: Nov 21 2020, 06:16 PM

Not likely, over the middle, long term input costs will go up. My guesstimate would be that it would be hard for the next 5 years or so. But the next boom will likely come after that.

The world has gone crazy with the outlook that growth will be slower in the next few years. Central banks in the region and the United States (US talking about dropping interest rates by a quarter or half a point. ) have dropped their interest rates. This will stimulate a short term growth in spending by offering cheaper credit.

Don't be surprised if we end up with another rate cut. Although that is only a bandaid and not the long term solution. In a healthy economic cycle, a recession must come every few years to sustain long term growth. Debt paydown occurs during recessions.

What should be happening is that governments should encourage a recession to prevent a harder landing when it will hits.

However, since central banks are lowering interest rates. They are essentially selling their "insurance policy" for when a recession hits. In these scenarios, don't be surprised if QE happens during the next recession (which might be a depression at the rate things are going).

In simple terms, if banks print more money. Values will go up. Whether it will happen or not is anyone's guess. If you're not getting the desired price and not in a rush for money. Hold and collect rental income.

Alternatively, you may wish to refinance for cash instead. Example, if you are collecting a rental of 1500, you can refinance about 330k).

If anyone has got a more comprehensive view on the current situation feel free to chime in. I may be wrong as learning is a lifelong process.

Cheers.

This post has been edited by vckc: Jul 20 2019, 02:56 PM

Property is illiquid, price takes years to bottom. Until property overhang is reduced substantially, price remain depressed. Subsale overhang is believed to be >3 times of developers/primary market.

As most bought property with bank loan and is incurring loan interest daily; price need not drop e.g stagnant to incur financial losses. Many may not able to sustain monthly negative cash flow.

For ownstay, whether home price rise or drop has no material effect. Gomen and bnm have no obligation to protect subsale vendors. Subsale property price dropped by over 30% wouldn't cause economic recession as people buy cars and regularly depreciate by 50%.

Exactly. The bubble wont happen in prime areas within KV. It could go up though if the economy picks up.

Rate cut mean negative economy outlook. How could negative outlook be good for property market?

By about 2030, Malaysia will become a ageing nation. Property price is more likely on long downtrend.

Bank interest is normally rise and fall inline with inflation rate. Rise in inflation rate also mean higher loan interest rate.

Price accordingly or wait for 4-6 years.

alot of scams are being enrolled by developers and supported by Pakatan Harapan(PH/Mahathir cronisym): giving rebate up to 30% to inflate Malaysian property bubble.

secondary properties are taking the toll.

ask him to sell at lower price, if market demand is lower than supply: price should drop.

This post has been edited by powerlinkers: Jul 20 2019, 03:16 PM

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This post has been edited by geekystef: Nov 21 2020, 06:16 PM

Yes, but just try.

I have been looking at some condos in Bangsar (Sri Penaga, Casa Vista, Bangsar Puteri and Tivoli) and the agents tell me prices are now about 20% lower than what they were 18 months ago.

My wife also has 2 apartments in MK and they (i feel) also have come down about 20% (compared to before) looking at the prices sellers are asking in iproperty.

This post has been edited by Garysydney: Jul 20 2019, 03:37 PM

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This post has been edited by geekystef: Nov 21 2020, 06:16 PM

The market is indeed soft for secondary market real estate. Does not matter which condo it is but unless you are willing to sell it cheap then be prepared to hold on to it.

Am in the same boat. Have a unit at Desa Parkcity that's been on the market for 3 years. Had enquiries the first 2 months then no calls other than a bunch of useless agents. This year had 2 enquiries and 1 booking fee but it came to nothing.

The other condo I have on the market is a unit at Mont Kiara. Been on the market for 18 months. Get 2-3 enquiries each month but not had any booking fees on it.

Not that different when it comes to landed houses whether strata or individual titled.

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This post has been edited by geekystef: Nov 21 2020, 06:17 PM

You have to look at things from a bigger picture and from an economic point of view.

They have every interest to protect the property market as it affects the Malaysian economy as a whole. The property market can cause a huge ripple effect throughout the economy.

Just look at USA in 2008. Understand it, then you tell me that the government has no interest or obligation to protect the property market.

Edit: You may wish to read The Big Short by Michael Lewis for an in-depth account of the crisis.

A lot can be learned from the US subprime mortgage crisis.

Why do you think there are efforts to clear property overhang? Why bother with HOC?

An interesting thing to note is that in Malaysia, there no easy access to credit, and no shadow banking system. Say what you will about the previous government but they did a good job picking lessons from the crisis to prevent an economic fallout/disaster.

Funny you compare properties and cars.. I think the layperson can understand why they are not the same.

This post has been edited by vckc: Jul 20 2019, 04:15 PM

It is because of slowing and a negative economic outlook as a whole that the rate cut occurs.

A rate cut decreases the barrier to entry for a lot of buyers. It enables businesses to borrow more for less. And puts money in the hands of millions of Malaysians who are servicing loans. A 0.25% drop frees up on average of RM 60 for a mortgage loan of 400k.

Multiply this and you can see exactly how powerful a rate cut is, the extra money will either be spent or reinvested breathing new life in the economy.

The median age in Malaysia is 29 years old. This is an extremely healthy level.

I used to think that Malaysia properties are doomed. But by the time I understand and learn more about the economy. The more I think otherwise.

For a comprehensive education on the economic system, boom and busts and its intricacies. Read "Big Debt Crises" by Ray Dalio.

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This post has been edited by geekystef: Nov 21 2020, 06:17 PM

Increasing foreigner purchase from 500k to 1 million

Tightening of bank lending making it harder to get a loan.

LTV 70% for the 3rd property

DSR calculation switch from gross to nett income for the mortgage application.

Removal of DIBS

Strata title to be issued upon Vacant Possession

There are just some of the things I can recall at this moment.

EDIT:
These changes are still maintained by the current government.

Naturally, they are very concerned about the current property overhang issue and have even revised the plot ratio.

Developers can no longer get approval to build high-density condos.

This post has been edited by vckc: Jul 20 2019, 04:13 PM

I always look at macro economy. Construction industry constitutes about 10% gdp. Hoc is to assist developers as it contribute to aggregate economy. Subsale property doesn't add any value to aggregate economy. Price drop in subsale property only impact vendors.

In 2007 u.s subprime crisis, u.s gomen was helping and protecting banks, not subsale vendors.

Loan compression has been rampant. If loan compression is not subprime, what is?

If RM60 saving a month is critical mean borrower is overstretched. Similarly, if rate rise, borrower could end in foreclosure.

household debt at about 83% of gdp is a bubble.

When will property overhang be reduced substantially?

This post has been edited by icemanfx: Jul 20 2019, 04:55 PM

No - she paid off both units recently so has no borrowings now. She is getting slightly more than rm6k/mth (nett) from both apartments so she is quite happy.

I have been keeping an eye on Bangsar and MK condos lately and have been inspecting properties the last time i was back in KL (April/May) and will probably check a few more when i go back next month. I am particularly interested in Sri Penaga and Casa Vista (as well as Cascadium) but a lot of sellers are still holding onto the prices that are quite unrealistic in this market. I also had a look at a 2 storey terrace in Bangsar Baru (Jln Terasek) which was a basic unit - they wanted rm1.6m and the agent told me that a couple of years ago, this place would have sold around rm1.85mil. The house is still in pretty good condition but very basic.

This post has been edited by Garysydney: Jul 21 2019, 06:34 AM

The economy is more interlinked than you describe it to be. A fall in the secondary market will affect the primary market.

It's a well-known fact that developers price their inventory in future price.

Supply and demand, in general properties in the secondary market, are 10-20% lower than the primary market. Then buyers will prefer to purchase from the secondary market instead. Don't forget, purchasers can withdraw from their EPF account 2 to make a purchase if they want to.

There are plenty of people sitting on the fence for the past few years because of the negative sentiment. Trust me these people are waiting till times are good before jumping in. I reiterate, the median age in Malaysia is 29 years old. This is an extremely healthy level. The median age in the US is 38 years old. A growing population means that there will be more demand over the medium - long term.

A discount of RM 60 a month multiplied by the number of mortgages lead to an adrenaline shot in the Malaysian economic system.

More money flowing equates to higher growth. People have more to spend, and when people spend more. The economy churns more.

The government and the central bank's interest lies in the wellbeing of the citizens. If they don't manage it properly, good luck getting re-elected.

Loan compression cases are lower than you think they are. You are making it sound like a huge percentage of the loan cases are compression loans, however, the reality is different. This loophole is also getting closed. I would be concerned about this closure if we are at the peak of the property cycle as it would lead to a hard crash. But since we are not. I don't think an important factor, as compression cases constitute a low % of mortgage applications.

A household debt of 83% is still alright. The US household debt was at 128% in 2007 before the crash and normalised to 77% in 2012. The data shows that our household debt is on a decline.

There are many factors contributing to the occurrence of the subprime crisis. Extremely easy access to credit, (any Tom, Dick and Harry can get a mortgage loan) they are then sold and repacked to mortgage-backed securities which investors then purchase.

I won't go into it further because I will have to write a thesis. Just read the books that I have recommended to get a clearer picture.

You are entitled to your opinion, I am entitled to mine. There is no right or wrong, only facts and figures. No one can foretell the future.

Sit back, relax, enjoy the ride. The only difference is whether you are in it or not. Because I'm in it for the long haul and things have get worse before they get a lot better.

Hey Gary! How's the land down under? I hope you're looking forward to your retirement.

I have followed your posts in FIRE and find them very insightful. Thank you so much for sharing your experience!

Bad timing to sell... if wish too, sell below market value.

i ve got one friend, he wanna to sell off his condo at market rate recently. However, buyer only look look see see. Then the buyer got the another unit with better buy. So consequently he has to mark down at least 10% lower of market price to sell off.
Therefore, Condo really no resales value nowadays due to SS > DD.
For landed properties are soft as well, there is demand but no buyer

Am not sifu just like to 8kua here....

I just put my apartment for sale and less than 2 weeks it got sold for the price i asked.
Maybe it was just my lucky break, or maybe there is real demand where i bougjht....i dunno.

Few things here
1. Low density.....whatever you think its the selling point of your property your subsale market might not think its the selling point.

2. Sell on own later appointing agent.....can see yr relative is either not too keen to sell or too kiamsiap to pay commission. I this is a big no no especially now the property boom is truly over.
Also how many agents they appointing? 1 2 or 50???? You need to engage as many as possible even up to 50 bcos 95% of them will not be active enough to push yr unit.

3. Buying subsale doesnt have to pay 10% and etc wan...if you know how to bend the rules...i wouldnt want to elaborate further here.....so to say new property with all the freebies eat up subsale market is simply not true. People that are buying subsale is unlikely to consider brand new from developers.

Actually i have revealed too much of myself in that thread - i sometimes think whether i should have!!

This post has been edited by Garysydney: Jul 21 2019, 05:18 AM

Sharing is caring.



This post has been edited by New Klang: Jul 20 2019, 06:02 PM

What?

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This post has been edited by geekystef: Nov 21 2020, 06:18 PM

U whack the 1.6m terrace still got money to retire or not? Just rent also ok...

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This post has been edited by geekystef: Nov 21 2020, 06:19 PM

Wah... good!

Asking is different from actual transacted ... if u look at actual transacted ... prices did not drop much for subsale... dun listen to much to agent ya.. they want to make u think you r getting cheap things now

You need to appoint agents that specilised in that condo or kuchai area...not any dog dick and hairy.

Dun worry just list down price of xxxk and say negotiable. Usually experience buyers will know how to deal w yr relative....its all up to the buyer that make the offer and yr relative to accept it or not.


Last thing...brickz info are mostly corruptes due to this practice....

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This post has been edited by geekystef: Nov 21 2020, 06:19 PM

Mark up saja.. Extra RPGT you bear.

Don’t let the banks know.

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This post has been edited by geekystef: Nov 21 2020, 06:20 PM

My brother-in-law lives in Taman Desa (double storey link) and he tells me that properties there used to go for rm1.2m-rm1.3m but have dropped to just over the million mark (basic unit) recently. Renovated ones fetch a bit more.

Few foresaw current soft market yet most foresee strong up pick.

Don’t know about others.

But I have gotten out of the property industry since 2014 right before the decline. I had to change fast.

The good times of achieving 5 sales a month were over and only the top win.

Edit: the general consensus, and market sentiment is that it’s stagnant and will go down. Lagged demand so to speak will pour in. If that doesn’t happen it’ll happen after the next recession.

This post has been edited by vckc: Jul 20 2019, 06:52 PM

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This post has been edited by geekystef: Nov 21 2020, 06:20 PM

i'm not expert in investment, i buy condo for ownstay, but i'm eyeing on sri petaling, puchong, bukit jalil and oug for a while and i've been staying in serdang for more than 10 years already

landed in kuchai lama, OUG, puchong and sri petaling is a gem, especially OUG and sri petaling, where it sandwiched between PJ and KL, this is why these areas you see those shoplot and condo is quite run down compare to damansara/mont kiara but those place still jam and 'ong' and many peoples still choose to stay here, both old and younger generation

new launch condo in kuchai and sri petaling is selling at average 600-650psf, i doubt there will be new landed in this area already

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This post has been edited by geekystef: Nov 21 2020, 06:20 PM

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This post has been edited by geekystef: Nov 21 2020, 06:21 PM

U call ur name Sydney everybody can guess

how come those freehold landed in Bandar Utama PJ still so pricey..
observed for 2 years ++ price still going up very slowly... aduhh

OKR / Kuchai / OUG areas are very prime areas these days. Same goes for Taman Desa and most other housing estates between Mid Valley and the junction to Jalan Templer. Lack of LRT connectivity did not put a single dent on the demand.

I had a single storey corner lot in that area up until I moved out of it earlier this year and put it on the market. It had a 1.5 storey extension, 9ft tall fence, double lot land and modernised using modern British standards. It sold after 2 months of being on the market at very near the asking price, discounted by a cashback to the buyer for the MOT and they took a full loan. They bought it because they had 2 big dogs and the bloke enjoyed his gardening.

As for condos, earlier this year I decided to sell off all properties I owned that was more than 10 years old, not in an expatriate neighbourhood or in a neighbourhood that we no longer wanted to invest in. 7 units of 3 bedroom 1200-1900sf condos. When I mentioned to the tenants that I was selling it, 3 offered to buy it off me, I told them to make an offer and accepted. 2 were purchased by investors within 2 months. Now only 1 remains unsold though I do have a booking on it, just no SPA yet.

Landed houses, it depends. Some can take forever to sell even in prime areas. However 4-8 months is considered fairly normal in today's economic climate.


Those are some really ancient condos you are looking into.

I hope you are not that Aussie that came by to my former unit and tried to lowball me

Older Bangsar condos have been on the decline as many of them are tired old buildings and in need of major repairs, also many have sinking funds that are broke. Values have mostly flat lined but difficult to get any real bargains. Most that own them have strong holding power.

Landed houses, their values have mostly been stagnant. RM1.6m for a terrace? You could have bought one for that type of money over the last 3 years though you would be looking into RM400k to fix it. Anything in nicer condition you would need to pay closer to RM2m for it.

Yes - a lot of Bangsar condos are quite old now. I like Sri Wangsaria but that block is tightly held and sellers are unwilling to drop much. You can only get bargains from sellers who are desperate to sell and it usually is because they are migrating. The rentals are miserable though in Bangsar - if you spend rm1mil to buy, you will probably get around rm3k/mth rental at best (gross) fully-furnished. When you compare that with Tiffani in MK, a 1mil condo there will roughly gross you about rm5k/mth. This makes me more inclined to buy in MK and the 2 buildings i like is Kiaraville and Tiffani (as i might rent it out if my plans to retire in KL doesn't work out).

Which unit is this?

I may be keen.

Please do pm me
Thanks

Yes he sold off just last week
Condo really no resale value
if can sale is very minimum margin
IMPO property in Malaysia is stagnant n is not really good place for investment
no more glorious time

Congrats on selling those properties.
Am looking into buying a condo as well , and to rent out for the next 1-2 years. Location wise , anywhere around bangsar / oug area. Would need to be ideal to travel from the condo to cheras and to major KPJ hospitals in Klang’s valley.

Might b moving for long term to Kl in 2 years time. Any suggestions which condo would be worth looking into?

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This post has been edited by geekystef: Nov 21 2020, 06:22 PM

Do PM me details as well.

Cheaper than 5 years ago! Uuu wish came true, sell and buy back at cheaper price.

This post has been edited by icemanfx: Jul 21 2019, 12:27 PM

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This post has been edited by geekystef: Nov 21 2020, 06:23 PM

Actually no need to worry -lah. This world has a lot of different types of people and we are using social media so you will see all sorts of response.

As long as this thread is allowed to continue, we just carry on (like nothing has happened).

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This post has been edited by geekystef: Nov 21 2020, 06:23 PM

Edgeproperty

I have seen one thread that i was communicating in Properties and then the next day it was moved to Properties Q&A (under Properties). I was looking for that thread and couldn't find it - finally found it under Properties Q&A. Maybe someone felt that your thread should be in that sub-group under Properties as you are asking a question.

1.6Mil terrace basic condition in bangsar requires alot of renovations or refurbishment. I dont think it's worth it. I was considering the area but I dont think its fully gated n guarded. Hence its not my choice. I bought an end lot terrace instead, brand new with fully gated n guarded in a nice serene environment with similar price. More countryside. Near to the city as well.

I was also considering bu area. I think its overpriced. It's not properly gated n guarded and look old. The pricing there is highly speculated due to the mrt completion.

Where oh? Not many new gated guarded near city leh...

Landed or high rise?

absolutely
this is current property tread now

yes bro
80s and 90s

perhaps just a paper value

Can take a look at PV arena, citizen and citizen 2, I'm not sure about your budget but if you are looking for higher end development can look at millerz square, but the last time I went they only got units that doesn't have good views

There is another new launch in jalan Puchong recently, got 70th floor of not mistaken

How does 'more countryside, near to city as well" work????

If its near to city it wont be classified as countryside.

70th floor at jln puchomg???

How come such an iconic building project no much publicity?

Most glorious time - 2007 to 2010

that's bloomsvale by kerjaya prospek, 66 flrs

thanks....

Why not? Maybe do your homework first before taunting?

Can sell fast if the price is right. Now market soft cannot demand higher end

here's the thread for that project https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/3956080

the sales gallery is nearby project site, can see it at your right side before you turn into parklane from old klang road direction

my mistake on 70th floor it only got 65 floors

This post has been edited by amduser: Jul 22 2019, 06:32 AM

Most of the market price you found in brickz are likely from marked-up selling price to get higher loans from banks to offset the downpayment. For example, the owner wanna sell you 380k, but you markup the loan for 420k, so the bank will give you 378k (90% of the the markup selling price). Thus, the data in the brickz will follow the 420k, although the actual selling price is 380k.

To get better indication of how much you should sell the house, look at similar listing at mudah or iproperty.

if you are talking abt 40kms is 'near city'' then I am speechless.

also understand what is countryside or near countryside.

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This post has been edited by geekystef: Nov 21 2020, 06:24 PM