I think salary is individual basis, if you're good u can get good salary of course. but don't expect graduating degree abroad would massively boost your salary gains. I came from local university and still able to land RM3600 as a fresh grad in M&C

Network is king.

As someone who studied overseas for high school and 6 years uni, here are my observations.

1. If you are shy and passive, western education would at least make u sociable.
2. If you are not very academically inclined, the western education does nothing for you academically as they require proactiveness. However refer back to paragraph 1 tho.
3. If you are academically superior, this is where it really shines. Get into a great uni, mix with the right crowd, ie don't spend all your time with msians, you will be right up there with the world elites. Smart Msians are quite likeable overseas due to the language advantage, generally easy going in nature yet very very hardworking.

If you are group 1/2 and budget permits, go to cheap unis and it'll be enough. Extra points if the uni is located in an area cut off from Asian influence.

If you are group 3, go for the best uni u can afford. I rejected a full scholarship plus living allowance from a world top 30 law school to enter a world top 10 law school on 90% scholarship. U will see first hand what world class is.

So lucky... I graduated local private uni and my starting salary is the basic salary for degree grads



why? my course is the less demanded in Malaysia

If Ur purpose is to work in Msia

Just get any damn recognized degree will do la

Unless u talking bout working in some cutting edge research field.

U think go overseas study business u will become next young millionaire meh.

Unless u study at Wharton la.

Oh wai-

hi, your dad is indeed very wise. it was precisely my dilemma when I started Monash when they had a campus here. The things you experience is not something you can find here.

The mileage varies according to your attitude. If you tend to stick to same Mal and Sg friends and never take the effort to immerse in the local culture you gain little. I graduated from Australia and so what I say is based on the experiences I had there.

During my matriculation, a lot of materials were actually covered by our local Form 5 syllabus. One distinct memory that I remember was we (mainly my,sg and hk students) will attend class and studiously taking down notes on what was written. The lecturer has reminded us before to listen and try to understand rather than use all our concentration on copying notes. To emphasize this sometimes he would write something and erase it a few times wasting our effort. Sooner or later it dawned on us to listen first and understand before noting down what was said. That helped in understanding the subject matter as what we write down will be based on our own thoughts rather than blindly copying without understanding. The most memorable quote my physics teacher said was "I am not God, I can be wrong. Don't treat what I said as gospel. Question everything". We were brainwashed by our MY system not to question the teacher. There they encourage different thinking and voicing it out. That allows for a discussion to explore other ideas. Also were taught to memorise formulas as in MY writing out the formula can get some marks. There the teacher says not necessary to memorise as it would be given during exam. It is the understanding of the subject matter that is important, not regurgitating by rote memory. It was a transition whereby our opinion on a subject is more important than what some author says. They want to listen to our opinion, not because what someone else said.

Asians tend to be very competitive and kiasu and would eagerly to be ahead of others. This country is quite laid back by our standards. If you want to rush ahead thats fine, nobody is going to chase you type of mentality. As a result asians tend to slow down when they realise nobody is trying to outdo each other. My Sg and HK friends says they even walk slower in Au compared to their own country. Less pressure to compete when nobody is chasing you. Our local friends tend to have a healthy work life balance as the outlook it not just about work rather more on enjoying life. It was in Au that I learn a lot of my local friends take gap year where they go and travel around the world before starting work, something foreign and unheard concept here in MY.

In Uni, there was better chance to meet people from all walks of life. You have lots of locals who can be Italians, Vietnamese, Israelis ancestry, students from Africa, europe and all over. At least for me I took the effort to mix around and avoid fellow compatriots to expose to foreign culture. You have a greater appreciation of different way of thinking, culture than your own. It was like learning to work with others with different background and why some people have different thinking to a common subject matter. Make your stand and defend it, don't cave in just someone can shout loudest. Agree to disagree. My best friend from India was amazed that the tamil spoken on rtm is so pure like in India when he visited.
Locals like to mix with asians in class because we are more studious and can copy notes or homework while we in return like their lifestyle in enjoying life. Who doesnt like firing up the barbie in the backyard on a sat arvo while having 2 beers.

I would say I wasnt smart enough to get into local uni hence need to go oversea and I would not be who I am today as my eyes has seen so much even my way of thinking has changed. I now value opinions rather than what other regurgitates from what other people think. That is why I hate to see people sharing articles on facebook without a shred of their own opinion. Same as some posting on this forum, just rehashing what is reported without really offering meaningful insights or just plain trolling.

As I said from the start, the oversea experience is good only provided you take the effort to learn, if not then it not difference studying locally.

In most uni out there. You are still force to memorize during exams. Sharing facebook post without their own opinion is not something that is applicable just over here.

Are you sure that going to overseas university enhances creativity. The person who you replied to does not seem to have much of it.

Do you even have time to understand and writing it down in the first place.

This post has been edited by TheRant: Jul 13 2019, 07:54 PM

you are missing the forest for the trees. Nobody force you to memorise. If you are comparing to countries like China the you are probably correct. It was there that I was exposed to the idea understanding a subject matter is a better way to memorise fact. As for sharing stuff, it is a consequence of valuing opinion, I did not say it is limited to a particular geographic spot.

There are no guarantees of earning big buck cos you come from a foreign uni. You can justify however way you want, either using ROI, opportunity cost but there are some things in life you cant use money to measure. Sure I could have done it locally and use the money better. There are no right answer to this question, but I bet anyone studying overseas could tell you their life was made richer by the experience. Your mind seems made up so good luck on your future.


Are you sure that going to overseas university enhances creativity. The person who you replied to does not seem to have much of it.

Do you even have time to understand and writing it down in the first place.

Did not say it enhances creativity, mentioned earlier, your attitude is what determines you get. Oversea you have a higher chance to meet different culture and diff ideas, but if you close yourself to it, nobody can help you. Do not know on what basis you can say the person I reply to do not have creativity. Just a few paragraph and you can tell? Very dismissive

When you understand time constraint, you will automatically prepare yourself for it. Maybe go thru the material before the class, learn to write shorthand, simplify your thoughts in notes. Class is where you ask questions. If you do not know what is being said and just spend time copying will you have questions to ask?. All these are minute details, just look at the bigger picture as a whole.

This post has been edited by CRaider2: Jul 13 2019, 08:08 PM

I never said that understanding is not required. What I was implying is that exams do not give you much time to "think". The moment you "think", you already do not have much time left to finish your exam paper. If "memorizing" was not required, why do we still have mock examinations out there. Also, notice that most exams are not open book exams. If memorizing is not required, why are exams not open book then. Are you saying that you do not memorize the terms ,etc. You are already being very dishonest by hinting that there is no memorizing involved. I dare say that many people do not do well in exams because they just cannot memorize. If you think that memory is not part of the test, you are either lying or you have a bad memory. One of the selling points to studying overseas is that its more understanding rather then route learning. Of course that's a lie. I dare say that if most universities really stick to their principals and emphasize on understanding rather then route learning and focus more on open book exams. The passing rate would be much greater. In fact I dare say, most people flunk in their exams not because they do not understand but because they just could not remember everything. And to be honest, I know you probably could not accept it. It is in the university interest that there is a significant failure rate because if 80% of the people passes, their course would not be so prestigious anymore. If any Tom, Dick and Harry can pass the exam, why should they charge high tuition fees. In fact ask yourself this. If exams are really understanding base rather then rote learning base, why asians students always do well.

You are already making assumption that I am about to study overseas. In fact, you do not even know my background and you are making assumptions. Did your education taught you to make such assumptions? I guess when you get threatened you use ad hominen attacks right. This already shows you are on the losing end. Wow. Your argument is a very flawed one. I could also make the same argument by saying that driving a BMW will make my next 5 years richer. Of course you are now at a defensive because of your insecurities. You want to convince yourself that the decision to send you overseas is a good one. What are the tangibles pertaining to your experience overseas. In fact, one thing I like about the west is at least they are honest. They will tell you upfront that in most cases studying overseas is not worth is monetary especially if you are studying overseas. Of course tangibles have to be measured. If you studied overseas but yet you are not able to cover your tuition fees after working it's not too good right? Of course a few of you out there are going to be dishonest and say that your overseas education enriches your experience but I can bet many of the others would have thought otherwise as they realize that overseas education did not really give them a massive advantage. This is considering the fact that there are quite a few reputable twinning programs that are being set up in Malaysia. The only reason to justify sending someone overseas to study is so that they can have some advantage over those who are studying locally. Let's put it this way. If tertiary education was not so bad in Malaysia, would most parents send their kids overseas in the first place. I think that's the main reason why parents send their kids overseas right? Not for the experience you are describing.

Pertaining to what you said about facebook. You mention that you see facebook post regurgitating the same points over and over again. But then this is not just a local phenomenon. If you are exposed to "foreign" pages, you will realize that people will always support their favorite teacher no matter what.Most people do not have a opinion. Unfortunately, there are very few leaders in this world. Admittedly, over here it's about who shout the loudest. Overseas, it's a not a whole lot different actually. Try challenge popular views against LGBT , feminism , racism openly. See where that gets you. The reason why you would not challenge those views is because those views have already been embedded in your mind.

Try challenging your lecturer then. Answer the exams in a different manner then what is expected. See where that lands you in.

Are you sure students do not know how to write shorthand in classes. And there lies the main point. Most of the topics that the lecturer covers are in textbooks. I would say that in most cases, if you spend the time understanding the text book, you do not even need to go to the classes. But then most people do not admit it. In fact, if you tell me which classes you are attending, I could probably tell you the textbook to "refer" to. But then lecturers are dishonest and tell you that those textbook are "reference" materials. Because if they told you the truth that most of their materials are just from the textbook. Most people will not take them seriously. From your last paragraph, I can tell that you just cannot see that. The only thing is, you probably do not know where to start of with if you did not go for those courses.

This post has been edited by TheRant: Jul 15 2019, 12:23 PM

just forget about this guy. i dont think he has the ability to understand or accept anything.

See the typical ad hominen attack?
I guess overseas university trained you to be like this right?

That's the thing. I do not see any massive advantage just in this thread alone. So just because I disagreed with you, you say that I do not understand and do not accept anything right?

Guess this shows that there is not really a massive advantage in overseas education.

lel. ok bro. you can continue to be yourself. as you are.

You have proven me right led. You are not my bro anyway.

This post has been edited by TheRant: Jul 15 2019, 02:11 PM

Everyone's yardstick is different. My take is yes is worth it based on my observation on my closest peers that went abroad and never came back. Built a "better" life from my perspective. And im on my verge of taking a huge step going abroad and study at 40 to give my yardstick a few inch extra. So question your current priority. Experience or monetary investment?

Anyway. What do you plan to study and where? Anyways. Most of the time, the justification of studying abroad is not the actual education itself but then something else. Dun you think? And the actual reality is, the actual study itself is not really worth the cost unless you are doing a, masters or a, PhD. Or you are doing medicine or something whereby you actually work with the professors themselves. Of course if you are using your own money to study I cannot say anything.

If after you have read what I have written, you still feel it's worth it then go ahead. Maybe for youngsters the justification is perhaps a, new experience. But then for older people like us. Most of the information can be obtained by reading books itself.

I do see people going to say theological schools for example. I really do not see the point when most of the materials are already out there. And if one really learn by himself he would have gain the knowledge that the theological school has givenn anyways . I do not see how going to uni will increase one yard stick when it comes to knowledge. I think if someone spend that sane time learning by himself, he would gain the same and even more knowledge then going to uni. The only usefulness in going to uni is if you want to have an academic life or if you want to be certified. In fact that's the reason why ppl get certification in the first place. The actual exam is not very useful. They made the exam so hard so that very few ppl get certified. It's the cert that is useful. The system forces you to cram things into your head. That is why I find it funny that as someone said memorization is not required. Even at my level, if you do not memorize, you fail. They make the certification so hard, that the failure rate is high. And I can guarantee you that most ppl understand the stuff but cannot retain the stuff into their head. The only reason why we do it is because of the certification. But of course someone here is going to say that we do not understand enough and hence why we failed. One thing I want to add. The instructor just read from the course material and perhaps added something along the way but you could understand everything just by going through the material.

Call me arrogant. But then I do not see that going to uni makes one better. But that's my opinion. For example economics. If one got the correct site and watch the correct stuff, he would be as good as someone who did the whole course in uni itself. Of course like what you see in this thread the justification of going overseas is not the actual education itself but then it defeat the whole purpose right?

To be honest it's your life. But then I really do not recommend going to full time stuff at 40 because you dun have much time left. Unless it's some advanced management course. By the time you come out, you will not even be competitive anymore. Of course if money is not the issue then go ahead. But then I just really do not get the motivation at all to study at 40s.maybe it's just me.

This post has been edited by TheRant: Jul 15 2019, 07:14 PM

Hi OP,

I was sponsored to study overseas and I would say that spending that money (RM 500k to 1mil) to enter a prestigious university (top 20 schools in the degree you study) would be a good decision for any family that can afford it.

Firstly, the long term monetary benefits will present itself - say you study computer sciences in the US, and come out with a decent job of about $8k a month, i.e. $ 100k a year. Post tax and living expenses, you would probably save (as a single male, no family commitment) at least 20 - 30% of that, which is RM 100k. Factor in bonus and promotions (which is likely in a merit-based, developed nation), you would probably make your education back in 5 years. Your argument about putting it into any local investment (by the way you even referred to 'FD' as investment...) is rather silly, when the MY stock market has been stagnant for the past 3 years + when FD barely gives u inflation + 1% returns.

Secondly, I had pretty wonderful schooling years as I attended a top uni in central London and visited many European countries in almost every study break I had. I could go to free museums, parks and public installations that barely cost a dime - because that's what matured cities are about, providing livable spaces for its people. I was learning how to live on my own in a foreign country and mingle among a diverse, international campus where in every corner you hear people engaged in politics, social science discussions.

You would realise that any of the above (point 2) would not be possible if you just go for twinning program at a run-off-the-mill university far from industrial city. And to that way of 'studying overseas', I do agree that it is a waste of time. Malaysian students spending their parents' hard earned money to travel in Europe for 3 months, always sticking around their own MY clique (tbf it applies to almost all Asian students), and came back working at SMEs.

All in all, I believe that you have too little exposure of what overseas studies entail. The level of intellectual discourse, or even the education support between local and foreign unis is actually very wide (local national unis are uncompetitive, and only few local private unis produce competent graduates that can perform and socialize well in professional settings).

Why FD is not an investment. You talk as if stocks in general give you more then FD. But I guess only something that provides 5-6% returns counts as investment right? The reason why I mentioned FD is because stocks is not the best place to put your money at this time. Of course if you are willing to take the risk and invest in say us stocks or bitcoins be my guess. The reason why I used FD as an example is because it's the safest.


Are you sure you would save 20-30% that?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cm2pYoSnnBo

And that is provided you manage to even get a job in those companies.
BTW, I find it ironic that you did not even describe your situation.

I think the fact that you ask parents to put spend a sum of RM500k to RM1mill on their kids is a little irresponsible. What if say their kids did not make it. And even if they did make it. Are they going to save 20% as you mentioned. Because to be earning that salary you mentioned, they will have most likely have to be based in that area above. And even then it's not a guarantee that they will get that job over there. Maybe you should learn a little bit on risk management.

Anyway. As I mention earlier. Most of the subjects in the universities, there is probably a text book that cover each of them. As I mentioned earlier, your interaction with the lecturers are limited unless you are at the masters or phd level.

YES

Let me rebut it one by one. Stocks do return more than FD, just pull up NASDAQ's new high and look at your measly FD returns, you'll know what I'm talking about. In unexciting markets like MY or SG (Asean in general), of course returns are poor. I have been investing since my uni years in foreign markets - again, something that people without overseas exposure won't be at advantage to do, simply because they will not understand the local economy, the startup scenes nor view the actual storefronts.

Next, I have emphasised that being a single male saves lots of expenses. In fact this applies to anywhere you live. Sure SF is an area where ppl have been priced out due to the abundance of tech firms, but you can't point at the US' most unequal neighborhood and generalise the case across the 51 states. The sheer number of US and UK companies that could pay you a decent wage while being located in midwest / cheaper eastern states / outer London (say Birmingham, Cambridge, Manchester) are quite unimaginable if you know where to look. Software engineers and coders could also work remotely, and intangible benefits (dinner claims etc) also help to alleviate living cost. Next, some consultants don't even live in their homes and live the frequent flyer, Tumi luggage life. And these are pretty demanding professions that require network, critical thinking, academic knowledge to succeed - again, lacking in average unis.

It's not ironic la I just don't think it adds to the discussion? I'm sponsored for my undergraduate, hence working with the company that sponsors my study. So my job seeking process / career path is obviously not the same as the ones who are privately funded. I on the other hand am interested to know why you are this disillusioned, are you becoming a father and getting afraid of spending money on your children?

TBH, getting a job in the UK / US aren't that difficult if you know what you are after, and how you want to get there. Even working in a 2nd tier professional services (take a 2k GBP job in an SME from the UK, whereas premium consulting or professional services could start at 4k+) would likely mean earning 3 times the Malaysian salary. Add that to better public healthcare, transport, food and living quality, I honestly do not see why

And quite happy to see you bring the topic back to actual benefits of university study. Universities, I emphasise again, provide you the resources (something as simple as a Bloomberg Terminal, networking events). You can say that people don't have to spend a lavish amount to succeed, but honestly how many people become top guitar / chess players / soccer players / consultants without getting a techer / entering an academy / paying for consulting case studies? We are simply analysing the benefits and costs, and to me if the family can afford it (i.e. not having to strap their belt or cut back on consumption), the mere experience of studying a good Ivy / Oxbridge uni is worth it, not even talking about the job opportunities that come your way.

Given that business environments entail more risk for incoming entrepreneurs and the increasing gaps between uni graduates from top / bottom unis, the importance of a degree is only going to increase, unless you are willing to take alternative routes.

This post has been edited by bursageek: Jul 15 2019, 10:51 PM