Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Bump Topic Add Reply RSS Feed

Outline · [ Standard ] · Linear+

 Foreign Tenant Background Screening

views
     
hanhanhan
post Jun 4 2019, 12:21 AM

(͡ ͡° ͜ つ ͡͡°)
******
Senior Member
1,205 posts

Joined: Oct 2006
From: Kuala Lumpur
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


airbnb, simply put, is short term rental. Thus airbnb guests are deemed to be tenants in the eyes of the law.

you, as the proprietor (property owner), surrender full access of usage of your parcel (unit) together with the rights of a parcel owner (right to use the common facilities subject to the management's house rules & regulations) for a certain period of time (number of days' stay). During their stay, you legally do not have any right to access the property or the common area (as you have already surrendered the right of usage to your tenant/airbnb guest).

an airbnb guest is no different from a monthly/yearly tenant in the eyes of the law. They are considered a 'tenant', and airbnb guests are regarded as 'short term tenant'.

The definition of 'short term rental' is not defined under the law, however the municipal council passed the baton to the building management to come up with their own definitions.

You can check in the Deed of Mutual Covenants (most, if not all, of the condo/apartment/serviced apartment/ gated & guarded landed strata houses has one) whether short term rental is forbidden by the Developer & subsequently adopted by the JMB/MC upon their formation.

Licensee, however, refers to a 'guest' in layman terms. If you ask ur friend to come into your condo, he is an visitor/invitee/licensee (which means the same under the law) who has mere access to your unit (or the common area) but no exclusive access to it (meaning he can't lock you out of your house without you getting pissed off)

a tenant/licensee/invitee/visitor ceases to be one, once they no longer have your permission or consent, whereupon they will become trespassers.

A lessee however legally means someone who has leased the property/building/land for a term exceeding 3 years, and has the right to register his lease onto the individual title/strata title of the property.
aurora97
post Jun 4 2019, 02:22 PM

八方來財
*******
Senior Member
3,790 posts

Joined: Aug 2007
QUOTE(hanhanhan @ Jun 4 2019, 12:21 AM)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


airbnb, simply put, is short term rental. Thus airbnb guests are deemed to be tenants in the eyes of the law.

you, as the proprietor (property owner), surrender full access of usage of your parcel (unit) together with the rights of a parcel owner (right to use the common facilities subject to the management's house rules & regulations) for a certain period of time (number of days' stay). During their stay, you legally do not have any right to access the property or the common area (as you have already surrendered the right of usage to your tenant/airbnb guest).

an airbnb guest is no different from a monthly/yearly tenant in the eyes of the law. They are considered a 'tenant', and airbnb guests are regarded as 'short term tenant'.

The definition of 'short term rental' is not defined under the law, however the municipal council passed the baton to the building management to come up with their own definitions.

You can check in the Deed of Mutual Covenants (most, if not all, of the condo/apartment/serviced apartment/ gated & guarded landed strata houses has one) whether short term rental is forbidden by the Developer & subsequently adopted by the JMB/MC upon their formation.

Licensee, however, refers to a 'guest' in layman terms. If you ask ur friend to come into your condo, he is an visitor/invitee/licensee (which means the same under the law) who has mere access to your unit (or the common area) but no exclusive access to it (meaning he can't lock you out of your house without you getting pissed off)

a tenant/licensee/invitee/visitor ceases to be one, once they no longer have your permission or consent, whereupon they will become trespassers.

A lessee however legally means someone who has leased the property/building/land for a term exceeding 3 years, and has the right to register his lease onto the individual title/strata title of the property.
*
Once you read the following case:-

Verve Suites Mont Kiara Management Corporation v Innab Salil and 20 Others (Kuala Lumpur High Court Civil Suit No. WA-22NCVC-461-09/2017)

Do tell me whether you wish to revise your response.

You can also read:

https://blog.burgielaw.com/2018/11/09/strata-management-case-updates-11-how-can-one-stop-air-bnb-or-short-term-rentals/
edyek
post Jun 4 2019, 05:00 PM

Business Rating :
*******
Senior Member
3,820 posts

Joined: Jan 2009
From: Land of the Hornbills & Land Below the Wind
QUOTE(hanhanhan @ Jun 4 2019, 12:21 AM)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


airbnb, simply put, is short term rental. Thus airbnb guests are deemed to be tenants in the eyes of the law.

you, as the proprietor (property owner), surrender full access of usage of your parcel (unit) together with the rights of a parcel owner (right to use the common facilities subject to the management's house rules & regulations) for a certain period of time (number of days' stay). During their stay, you legally do not have any right to access the property or the common area (as you have already surrendered the right of usage to your tenant/airbnb guest).

an airbnb guest is no different from a monthly/yearly tenant in the eyes of the law. They are considered a 'tenant', and airbnb guests are regarded as 'short term tenant'.

The definition of 'short term rental' is not defined under the law, however the municipal council passed the baton to the building management to come up with their own definitions.

You can check in the Deed of Mutual Covenants (most, if not all, of the condo/apartment/serviced apartment/ gated & guarded landed strata houses has one) whether short term rental is forbidden by the Developer & subsequently adopted by the JMB/MC upon their formation.

Licensee, however, refers to a 'guest' in layman terms. If you ask ur friend to come into your condo, he is an visitor/invitee/licensee (which means the same under the law) who has mere access to your unit (or the common area) but no exclusive access to it (meaning he can't lock you out of your house without you getting pissed off)

a tenant/licensee/invitee/visitor ceases to be one, once they no longer have your permission or consent, whereupon they will become trespassers.

A lessee however legally means someone who has leased the property/building/land for a term exceeding 3 years, and has the right to register his lease onto the individual title/strata title of the property.
*
QUOTE
airbnb, simply put, is short term rental. Thus airbnb guests are deemed to be tenants in the eyes of the law.

I don't think you are right in your definition.

Airbnb like you say is short term rental or short let BUT in exchange for PAYMENT and/or CONSIDERATION.

As a Tenant, you will have tenancy agreement.

As a Tenant with short term rental usually referring anything less than 1 year tenancy under tenancy agreement. Still a TENANT.

As a Guest (not the kind of guest which your friend come over to spend a night for free; it is ESPECIALLY referring to "guest in exchange for payment and/or consideration on a temporary basis for a period of short consecutive days and where such occupation is not subject to residential tenancy agreement or lease"), it is also refer to as "PAYING GUEST".
Therefore you will have a short let for business purposes. Hence, this is where AirBnB comes in. Strata residential properties does not "accomodate" paying guest hence many JMB try to outlaw it.
Like you say. AirBnB refers them GUEST BUT NEVER will be deemed as "TENANTS".

It is a can of worms that AirBnB opens thus there are many such cases popping out. But to refer generally as what I've mention as above, residential properties are not allowed for short let business.

A very good example, whereby Kota Kinabalu has passed a (SHORT LET) BY-LAWS, 2017 of CITY OF KOTA KINABALU ENACTMENT 1998
AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT ORDINANCE, 1961 (No. 11 of 1961). Which DEFINES as per below :-
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


So in a nut shell, any short let business carry out in RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES is illegal here in Kota Kinabalu. Although some are still running it and the enforcement is still lacking.

I think other cities/towns in Malaysia should follow suit like what Kota Kinabalu city council did (maybe some other cities have already did? I dont know). This is the best way to prevent any further misinterpretation and leading to court cases or misuse of any short let business under residential properties.

A very well detailed court decision on the link provided by aurora97
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

Anyhow, please feel free to correct me. Cheers.

This post has been edited by edyek: Jun 4 2019, 05:13 PM
hanhanhan
post Jun 5 2019, 08:06 PM

(͡ ͡° ͜ つ ͡͡°)
******
Senior Member
1,205 posts

Joined: Oct 2006
From: Kuala Lumpur
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


i disagree with the judgement and definition.

once i win another case to change the law then i'll update u.
hanhanhan
post Jun 5 2019, 08:10 PM

(͡ ͡° ͜ つ ͡͡°)
******
Senior Member
1,205 posts

Joined: Oct 2006
From: Kuala Lumpur
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


govt doesn't want to enact a tenancy act to address this , as lots of stakeholders are involved in this (heck, even their ownselves or their family members).

hence the dirty work is being passed to the JMB.

I've done many cases to bypass whatever the JMB has thrown at my client. HMU if you require consultation for your homestay strategy.
edyek
post Jun 5 2019, 11:47 PM

Business Rating :
*******
Senior Member
3,820 posts

Joined: Jan 2009
From: Land of the Hornbills & Land Below the Wind
QUOTE(hanhanhan @ Jun 5 2019, 08:06 PM)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


i disagree with the judgement and definition.

once i win another case to change the law then i'll update u.
*
QUOTE(hanhanhan @ Jun 5 2019, 08:10 PM)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


govt doesn't want to enact a tenancy act to address this , as lots of stakeholders are involved in this (heck, even their ownselves or their family members).

hence the dirty work is being passed to the JMB.

I've done many cases to bypass whatever the JMB has thrown at my client. HMU if you require consultation for your homestay strategy.
*
Of course if the land title is commercial usage and the "residential" was built on commercial title for commercial usage, then it is not illegal. Thus JMB cannot outlaw it.

Please do update if you have any news. This is a good thing for the pubic to be aware of.
aurora97
post Jun 5 2019, 11:56 PM

八方來財
*******
Senior Member
3,790 posts

Joined: Aug 2007
The decision of a court typically stands until they are overruled by either a superior court or legislation through parliament. Even if a decision isn't favourable, it stands.

So for those reading and those providing their views, we should always present our case based on prevailing authorities (despite differing views).

Aside from the above, I think its also pertinent that one does not make baseless allegations/assertions without first providing source or reference.
edyek
post Jun 6 2019, 12:09 AM

Business Rating :
*******
Senior Member
3,820 posts

Joined: Jan 2009
From: Land of the Hornbills & Land Below the Wind
QUOTE(aurora97 @ Jun 5 2019, 11:56 PM)
The decision of a court typically stands until they are overruled by either a superior court or legislation through parliament. Even if a decision isn't favourable, it stands.

So for those reading and those providing their views, we should always present our case based on prevailing authorities (despite differing views).

Aside from the above, I think its also pertinent that one does not make baseless allegations/assertions without first providing source or reference.
*
thumbup.gif notworthy.gif Couldn't have say it any better. You should have type this in your last post. So I won't type so much kok. tongue.gif
aurora97
post Jun 6 2019, 12:39 AM

八方來財
*******
Senior Member
3,790 posts

Joined: Aug 2007
QUOTE(edyek @ Jun 6 2019, 12:09 AM)
thumbup.gif  notworthy.gif Couldn't have say it any better. You should have type this in your last post. So I won't type so much kok.  tongue.gif
*
I think when we come to a forum, we present our views as lay-persons. If however, a person professes he/she is of a particular profession/specialist than there is a higher standard on him/her to present a proper view/case.

I believe lawyers r called "officers of the court" for a reason.
Zavia/GenX
post Jun 7 2019, 05:32 PM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
274 posts

Joined: May 2006
This is about Airbnb or about Foreign Tenants now? biggrin.gif
Good info here tho.

*

[/quote]
QUOTE(ariesguy @ May 22 2019, 11:28 AM)
The idea of us to implement this is to enable us to have records for foreign tenants who are staying at our place. Without the relevant data, it is difficult for us to monitor the the foreign tenants who are renting at our place.
As a matter of fact, when we ask the owners to provide details on their foreign tenants, they wouldn't bother since they don't live here. For them, as long as they're getting the rental and the maintenance fee is paid, rest is least of a concern.
After going thru a turmoil with our previous Management company, we have just established on getting things back on track. Foreigners issues are considered as one of the major thing at our place, as we have had cases of harassment, stalking, extortion, drunk, fighting, threatening, late night party, expired student visa, overstay and even murder attempt. When we look into the percentage of cases that was filed by the residents at our place for the past 1.5 years, a very large number was pointing towards them.
Looking at all this, the thought of implementing this will enable us to have records of their credit checks, status verification & criminal records. It is also viewed from a prospect where if I have nothing to hide, I am confident of a background check. Hence, upon doing the check and results found satisfactory, it would be safe to assume that the foreigners who are staying here are generally acceptable. And in the event of any misconduct, we have details pertaining them if any authority approaches.
For info, this tenant background screening is practiced in many countries such as USA, Canada & The UK for landlords who would want to rent their property especially for an international tenant.
For the local tenants, we have no qualms as we generally do not have any issues in getting their particulars and they are typically cooperative. As such, you can see the need why we would want to implement this for the foreigners who are refusing to provide their actual details.
*
QUOTE(ariesguy @ May 22 2019, 01:09 PM)
Does this mean that JMC reserves all the rights to request for the foreign tenant profile and can take a copy of the documents (passport/letters) related to them? And if they still refuse, up to what extend can we go? Blocking access card can be an option?
*


I feel you guys have your heart in the right place but are going about it wrongly. Some perspective:

Without the relevant data, it is difficult for us to monitor the the foreign tenants who are renting at our place.
Does this mean that JMC reserves all the rights to request for the foreign tenant profile and can take a copy of the documents (passport/letters) related to them?
This answer is related. Yes JMC can and SHOULD have copies of all resident, tenant and owners, information. Its usually in the owners handbook. No need additional laws about this.

we have had cases of harassment, stalking, extortion, drunk, fighting, threatening, late night party, expired student visa, overstay and even murder attempt. When we look into the percentage of cases that was filed by the residents at our place for the past 1.5 years, a very large number was pointing towards them.
Thats terrible to hear, but the thing is all also can do this local or otherwise. Can you provide some info or statistics about this % of cases, seems interesting.

enable us to have records of their credit checks, status verification & criminal records.
When they come over, unless its on a tourist visa, their company/college would have done WAY more checking then we or the JMC can do. Again, gather the relevant ID, Visa, Employment/Student letter and the Tenancy agreement. The visa and the letter essentially tells you they have been checked.
I was an expat for a few years, they do ask alot of documents for my employment permit. And stay permit. And local tax registration. And domicile letter/Tenancy agreement. And bank account opening. And CC opening.

For info, this tenant background screening is practiced in many countries such as USA, Canada & The UK for landlords who would want to rent their property especially for an international tenant.
Thats not FULLY true. The background screening is done for all tenants of all types. If you do credit and police check on foreigners, you have to do it on on all tenants and future owners (since they are new residents, assume old residents are grandfathered in).

For the local tenants, we have no qualms as we generally do not have any issues in getting their particulars and they are typically cooperative. As such, you can see the need why we would want to implement this for the foreigners who are refusing to provide their actual details.
If im about to steal stuff, id be cooperative too with fake documents. Locals or not shouldn't influence your procedures. Also, anyone, foreign or otherwise, not providing their ID, faking their ID, or misrepresenting who is a resident can be dealt with with existing laws in your owners handbook.

*I assume a generally competent owners handbook of all the existing laws is present. If it isnt, you have a more urgent problem to look at.

So just ensure your ENFORCEMENT of existing laws. Maybe tweak it a little (like add the surat from company/uni) for all tenants. Have better entry screening and more security. Thats about as good as it gets besides going into immoral territory. As a plus, your place will naturally be safer from everyone for everyone!
ulala2
post Jun 10 2019, 12:27 PM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
245 posts

Joined: Jul 2007
As i mentioned earlier, u can add the following in your owner handbook, but if you don't have, then u may need to obtain a special resolution to obtain majority owner approval on this.

1) It shall be the duty of every occupant to inform the Management of the identify of all persons residing in his parcel. The registered lawful owner or head resident shall furnish the Management the above information as per PDPA in writing his current mailing address, email address, office and mobile contact numbers, name of residents in the unit and all other relevant information which the management shall require from time to time.

2) It is the owner's responsibility to notify the Management should their unit be rented out and furnish the details of the tenants XXX working days in advance before such tenants are allowed access to the development. Tenants who are non-Malaysians must provide a valid proof of residency or work permit as appropriate.

3) All new occupants are required to complete the residents record form and made available at the Management Office within 24 hours after moving in.

4) For unit that are let out, the owner shall notify and furnish the Management Office with the necessary particulars of the Tenants and copy of the tenancy agreement. Such tenancy agreements shall incorporate the House Rules and Regulations for compliance by the tenants.


With the above in your House Rule / Owner handbook, i believe u can request the documents from the foreign tenant.

TQ
okuribito
post Jun 13 2019, 02:11 AM

Regular
******
Senior Member
1,021 posts

Joined: Mar 2010
BurgieLaws' Strata Management Case Updates 12 – Can MC prohibits foreigners from renting? >>>> this 2018 case seems to say that you can have House Rules/additional by-laws that discriminates against certain nationality. Is that a correct interpretation?

...................................................................

QUOTE(cherroy @ May 22 2019, 12:12 PM)
Under strata title act, JMB/MC has no right to screen/choose tenant on behalf on owner,
*
Curious, can please share which section of strata title act says this?

....................................................................

QUOTE(hanhanhan @ Jun 4 2019, 12:21 AM)
you, as the proprietor (property owner), surrender full access of usage of your parcel (unit) together with the rights of a parcel owner (right to use the common facilities subject to the management's house rules & regulations) for a certain period of time (number of days' stay). During their stay, you legally do not have any right to access the property or the common area (as you have already surrendered the right of usage to your tenant/airbnb guest).
*
Is this loss of rights a common law principle or coming from statute?

What happens if an owner does not live in the unit but rents out room by room? Very common eg condos near colleges. Every now and then, he will need to access the unit to show an empty room to prospective tenants, or to do repairs, or to check up on cleanliness etc

- Can the jmb/mc make additional by-law to say that he must surrender his access card, failing which it will be deactivated? That he must register as a visitor when he enters the condo?

..........................................................

Notice of 1st AGM & subsequent AGMs

Form 14 of the Strata Management (Maintenance & Management) Regulations - SMMMR - specifies the notice of the 1st AGM & its contents (agenda items). Do all the same agenda items have to be included in subsequent AGMs? Can certain or any agenda items be omitted?

..........................................................

Question about making/amending additional by-laws:

I think 757 says that JMB/MC can make/amend additional by-laws by special resolution which needs 21 days' notice. Instead of convening an EGM, let's say an MC decides to propose additional by-laws at the AGM. So instead of 14 days notice, the MC will have to give 21 days' notice, right?

Assuming an owner wants to propose a by-law at that AGM, must he give 21 days' notice? OR can he use Rule 12(2) of the SMMMR and write in "not less than seven days before the AGM" to propose a motion to adopt the additional by-law he drafted?

...........................................................

Sorry, many off-topic questions. Dunno where to ask & this current thread seems the best place & most number of knowledgeable ppl rclxms.gif

aurora97 ulala2 hanhanhan please chime in. TQ nod.gif

This post has been edited by okuribito: Jun 13 2019, 02:45 AM
aurora97
post Jun 13 2019, 08:17 AM

八方來財
*******
Senior Member
3,790 posts

Joined: Aug 2007
QUOTE(okuribito @ Jun 13 2019, 02:11 AM)
BurgieLaws' Strata Management Case Updates 12 – Can MC prohibits foreigners from renting?  >>>> this 2018 case seems to say that you can have House Rules/additional by-laws that discriminates against certain nationality. Is that a correct interpretation? 

...................................................................
Curious, can please share which section of strata title act says this?

....................................................................
Is this loss of rights a common law principle or coming from statute?

What happens if an owner does not live in the unit but rents out room by room? Very common eg condos near colleges. Every now and then, he will need to access the unit to show an empty room to prospective tenants, or to do repairs, or to check up on cleanliness etc

- Can the jmb/mc make additional by-law to say that he must surrender his access card, failing which it will be deactivated? That he must register as a visitor when he enters the condo?

..........................................................

Notice of 1st AGM & subsequent AGMs

Form 14 of the Strata Management (Maintenance & Management) Regulations - SMMMR - specifies the notice of the 1st AGM & its contents (agenda items). Do all the same agenda items have to be included in subsequent AGMs? Can certain or any agenda items be omitted?

..........................................................

Question about making/amending additional by-laws:

I think 757 says that JMB/MC can make/amend additional by-laws by special resolution which needs 21 days' notice. Instead of convening an EGM, let's say an MC decides to propose additional by-laws at the AGM. So instead of 14 days notice, the MC will have to give 21 days' notice, right?

Assuming an owner wants to propose a by-law at that AGM, must he give 21 days' notice? OR can he use Rule 12(2) of the SMMMR  and write in "not less than seven days before the AGM" to propose a motion to adopt the additional by-law he drafted?

...........................................................

Sorry, many off-topic questions. Dunno where to ask & this current thread seems the best place & most number of knowledgeable ppl  rclxms.gif

aurora97  ulala2  hanhanhan  please chime in. TQ  nod.gif
*

BurgieLaws' Strata Management Case Updates 12 – Can MC prohibits foreigners from renting? >>>> this 2018 case seems to say that you can have House Rules/additional by-laws that discriminates against certain nationality. Is that a correct interpretation?

We are reading something that is summarized. Also, that is someone else account of what happened. Plain reading itself, there is no discrimination at all. The court allowed gave priority to the by laws and interpreted the wordings to the letter.

I though the things I have mentioned earlier was extreme but actually its child's play LOL... rclxub.gif . This is an interesting case indeed. Thanks for bringing it up.
cherroy
post Jun 13 2019, 09:20 AM

20k VIP Club
Group Icon
Staff
25,802 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From: Penang
QUOTE(okuribito @ Jun 13 2019, 02:11 AM)

QUOTE
Under strata title act, JMB/MC has no right to screen/choose tenant on behalf on owner,

...................................................................
Curious, can please share which section of strata title act says this?


*
Strata title act say none on this issue, hence the strata title act does not empower JMB/MC on any matter related to individual parcel apart from common property related and house rules on common facilities/surrounding.
Or in other word, the unit is owned by the unit parcel, he/she can sell, rent to anyone.

JMB/MC only can act on what have been empowered to them based on the act, eg
Collect maintenance fee, taking care of common facilities, fire insurance, impose house rules etc.
That is why even the unit owner defaulting the maintenance fee, JMB/MC cannot stop the owner to access to his/her unit.

The act doesn't say any sale/rent needs to take consent from JMB/MC.

Unless the property is under similar to restricted leasehold property type whereby there is leasehold agreement clearly stated any sale/rent of such property may require consent from the lessor.
ulala2
post Jun 13 2019, 11:55 AM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
245 posts

Joined: Jul 2007
QUOTE(cherroy @ Jun 13 2019, 09:20 AM)
...................................................................
Curious, can please share which section of strata title act says this?
*


Strata title act say none on this issue, hence the strata title act does not empower JMB/MC on any matter related to individual parcel apart from common property related and house rules on common facilities/surrounding.
Or in other word, the unit is owned by the unit parcel, he/she can sell, rent to anyone.

JMB/MC only can act on what have been empowered to them based on the act, eg
Collect maintenance fee, taking care of common facilities, fire insurance, impose house rules etc.
That is why even the unit owner defaulting the maintenance fee, JMB/MC cannot stop the owner to access to his/her unit.

The act doesn't say any sale/rent needs to take consent from JMB/MC.

Unless the property is under similar to restricted leasehold property type whereby there is leasehold agreement clearly stated any sale/rent of such property may require consent from the lessor.
*
I would like to make some correction on the above comments:-

1) JMB/MC do not have any power on issue related to the individual parcel, HOWEVER, they have the power in controlling the common access lead to the individual parcel, for example, car park, lift lobby, corridor and so on.

2) To recover debt, JMB/MC need to file to Tribunal.

3) The act doesn't say any sale/rent needs to tkae consent from JMB/MC. HOWEVER, JMB/MC have the right to block any new faces which is not listed in the owner list enter into the building unless they need to show proof such as tenancy agreement or so on.


Would also like to update on the below situation: -

There is a break-in case in one of the condo units at level 8.

QUESTION:
1) Are JMB/MC is liable on the break-in case in the individual parcel??
Answer is No. JMB/MC only liable on any issue related to common property.

2) If this is due to negligent of security guard caused the break-in case, are JMB/MC liable??
Answer is No. JMB/MC appointed the security company to safe guard the common property, if any act of negligent by the security guard, security company will be liable on this.

This post has been edited by ulala2: Jun 13 2019, 12:39 PM
ulala2
post Jun 13 2019, 12:39 PM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
245 posts

Joined: Jul 2007
QUOTE(okuribito @ Jun 13 2019, 02:11 AM)
..........................................................

Notice of 1st AGM & subsequent AGMs

Form 14 of the Strata Management (Maintenance & Management) Regulations - SMMMR - specifies the notice of the 1st AGM & its contents (agenda items). Do all the same agenda items have to be included in subsequent AGMs? Can certain or any agenda items be omitted?

..........................................................

Question about making/amending additional by-laws:

I think 757 says that JMB/MC can make/amend additional by-laws by special resolution which needs 21 days' notice. Instead of convening an EGM, let's say an MC decides to propose additional by-laws at the AGM. So instead of 14 days notice, the MC will have to give 21 days' notice, right?

Assuming an owner wants to propose a by-law at that AGM, must he give 21 days' notice? OR can he use Rule 12(2) of the SMMMR  and write in "not less than seven days before the AGM" to propose a motion to adopt the additional by-law he drafted?

...........................................................

Sorry, many off-topic questions. Dunno where to ask & this current thread seems the best place & most number of knowledgeable ppl  rclxms.gif
I believed your above question is posted at the wrong thread, you should post it at https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/3608743

Anyhow, i try my best to answer you.

1) If JMB/MC want to make new additional by-law, they need use special resolution and obtain majority vote in AGM/EGM.

2) If this is special resolution, u need to provide 21 day notices to all the proprietor. Meaning that, the Notice of AGM/EGM need to send out at least 21 days before the meeting date. Adding to that, the Notice of AGM/EGM must attached with the special resolution to list out all the proposed additional by-law, and this also as part of Agenda in the Notice of AGM/EGM.

3) Please take note that on Motion, Second Schedule, 13(1),

QUOTE
Any proprietor by notice in writing deposited at the registered office of the management corporation not less than seven days before the time holding the meeting, require inclusion of a motion as set out in such notice in the agenda of the next general meeting of the management corporation.


If you read carefully, IN THE AGENDA OF THE NEXT GENERAL MEETING. Means, u submit a motion in this AGM/EGM, will only discuss in the next AGM/EGM.

4) The additional by-law only can make by JMB/MC, not a single proprietor.

TQ
okuribito
post Jun 13 2019, 01:57 PM

Regular
******
Senior Member
1,021 posts

Joined: Mar 2010
QUOTE(ulala2 @ Jun 13 2019, 12:39 PM)
I believed your above question is posted at the wrong thread, you should post it at https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/3608743

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

TQ
*
ok tq. I copy & paste this one to that thread. Replied there

This post has been edited by okuribito: Jun 13 2019, 02:22 PM
okuribito
post Jun 13 2019, 02:20 PM

Regular
******
Senior Member
1,021 posts

Joined: Mar 2010
QUOTE(aurora97 @ Jun 13 2019, 08:17 AM)

BurgieLaws' Strata Management Case Updates 12 – Can MC prohibits foreigners from renting?  >>>> this 2018 case seems to say that you can have House Rules/additional by-laws that discriminates against certain nationality. Is that a correct interpretation? 

We are reading something that is summarized. Also, that is someone else account of what happened. Plain reading itself, there is no discrimination at all. The court allowed gave priority to the by laws and interpreted the wordings to the letter.

I though the things I have mentioned earlier was extreme but actually its child's play LOL... rclxub.gif . This is an interesting case indeed. Thanks for bringing it up.
*
Thanks & yup it's only burgie law's summary. But where to find the full judgment? google taada. Appreciate if you will update us after reading the source
thumbsup.gif
okuribito
post Jun 13 2019, 02:35 PM

Regular
******
Senior Member
1,021 posts

Joined: Mar 2010
QUOTE(cherroy @ Jun 13 2019, 09:20 AM)
...................................................................

Strata title act say none on this issue, hence the strata title act does not empower JMB/MC on any matter related to individual parcel apart from common property related and house rules on common facilities/surrounding.
Or in other word, the unit is owned by the unit parcel, he/she can sell, rent to anyone.

JMB/MC only can act on what have been empowered to them based on the act, eg
Collect maintenance fee, taking care of common facilities, fire insurance, impose house rules etc.
That is why even the unit owner defaulting the maintenance fee, JMB/MC cannot stop the owner to access to his/her unit.

The act doesn't say any sale/rent needs to take consent from JMB/MC.

Unless the property is under similar to restricted leasehold property type whereby there is leasehold agreement clearly stated any sale/rent of such property may require consent from the lessor.
*
Yeah I understand the principle of invalidity of actions beyond the powers conferred upon jmb/mc by 757. BUT the JMB/MC is also empowered to make additional by-laws ... no?

And if the JMB/MC is of the opinion that certain nationalities pose a security risk, they can propose additional by-laws to deal with it... providing the proposal is not inconsistent with Schedule 3. No?

Then the question that needs an answer is whether the proposed screening is inconsistent with Sch 3


PS: by the way, i thought all the provisions that deal with the management of strata properties in the strata titles act that you mentioned have been deleted with the introduction of 757 ?

pps: Sch3 = thrd Schedule of Strata Management (Maintenance and Management) Regulations 2015
cherroy
post Jun 14 2019, 10:45 AM

20k VIP Club
Group Icon
Staff
25,802 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From: Penang
QUOTE(okuribito @ Jun 13 2019, 02:35 PM)
Yeah I understand the principle of invalidity of actions beyond the powers conferred upon jmb/mc by 757. BUT the JMB/MC is also empowered to make additional by-laws ... no? 

And if the JMB/MC is of the opinion that certain nationalities pose a security risk, they can propose additional by-laws to deal with it... providing the proposal is not inconsistent with Schedule 3. No?

Then the question that needs an answer is whether the proposed screening is inconsistent with Sch 3
PS:  by the way, i thought all the provisions that deal with the management of strata properties in the strata titles act that you mentioned have been deleted with the introduction of 757 ?

pps: Sch3 = thrd Schedule of Strata Management (Maintenance and Management) Regulations 2015
*
My elementary understanding.
I think the limitation of by-law has been posted aurora97, in the earlier page. No2.
aka by-law cannot contradict with prescribed law.

If JMB/MC can set a by-law to have blanket limitation of certain nationalities even the tenant who is legally long stay here and has enter a proper tenancy agreement, then I would propose JMB/MC to set a by-law of a water and electricity cut or even rent limitation for unit that defaulting their maintenance fee. smile.gif
This can be more effective to tackle defaulting problem then. But as far as I know, this kind of by-law is not allowed.

The issue is a bit different with bnb/homestay, that JMB/MC can use security reason to screen/block entry unknown tenant who has no proper tenancy agreement.
« Next Oldest · Property Q&A · Next Newest »
 

3 Pages < 1 2 3 >Top
Add ReplyOptions
 

Change to:
| Lo-Fi Version
 0.0275sec    0.72    5 queries    GZIP Disabled
Time is now: 14th December 2025 - 02:44 PM
All Rights Reserved © 2002- 2025 Vijandren Ramadass (~unite against racism~)
Removal Request
Powered by Invision Power Board © 2025  IPS, Inc.