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> Hayao Miyazaki criticizes Lord of the Rings

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KLthinker91
post Mar 24 2019, 12:58 PM

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From: Cherasboy
QUOTE(pipedream @ Mar 24 2019, 11:40 AM)

See the trend? American made american war films that depict americans in a good way - The iraq war is controversial to some too.

Also, the film porco rosso is not about japanese and in what way glorifying war?
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offtopic sikit: I would go further than that actually

If you look at most American WW2 media, they mainly focus on just 4 battles - 1) Pearl Harbour, naturally; 2) Normandy D-day and French campaign, the first American-led victory in Europe; 3) Battle of the Bulge 1944, only the American half and only the victorious part; and 4) Pacific campaign, again only the American and victorious part in from island-hopping onwards

so this observation is not without merit

but again, you have to read OP which it looks like until now you still haven't, to get where my critique of HM is coming from

HM shit on LOTR because he said it glorifies war. Well, LOTR is a story of good guys forced to go to war against bad guys, to save the world. The main themes are friendship, sacrifice, and ultimately upholding righteous moral principles such as mercy despite seemingly being against practical considerations. It's not what he claims at all.

If even this level of conflict he considers "glorifying war", then hell, he himself shouldn't be doing anything like Porco Rosso or even the brief fighting in Howl's Moving Castle

which is why he is a hypocrite.
pipedream
post Mar 24 2019, 01:21 PM

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QUOTE(KLthinker91 @ Mar 24 2019, 01:58 PM)
offtopic sikit: I would go further than that actually

If you look at most American WW2 media, they mainly focus on just 4 battles - 1) Pearl Harbour, naturally; 2) Normandy D-day and French campaign, the first American-led victory in Europe; 3) Battle of the Bulge 1944, only the American half and only the victorious part; and 4) Pacific campaign, again only the American and victorious part in from island-hopping onwards

so this observation is not without merit

but again, you have to read OP which it looks like until now you still haven't, to get where my critique of HM is coming from

HM shit on LOTR because he said it glorifies war. Well, LOTR is a story of good guys forced to go to war against bad guys, to save the world. The main themes are friendship, sacrifice, and ultimately upholding righteous moral principles such as mercy despite seemingly being against practical considerations. It's not what he claims at all.

If even this level of conflict he considers "glorifying war", then hell, he himself shouldn't be doing anything like Porco Rosso or even the brief fighting in Howl's Moving Castle

which is why he is a hypocrite.
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I re-read the article just now.

Seems like his point of contempt is more to the underlying xenophobic theme of LOTR. So we're both wrong.

QUOTE
“If someone is the enemy, it’s okay to kill endless numbers of them,” he continued. “Lord of the Rings is like that. If it’s the enemy, there’s killing without separation between civilians and soldiers. That falls within collateral damage. How many people are being killed in attacks in Afghanistan? The Lord of the Rings is a movie that has no problem doing that [not separating civilians from enemies, apparently]. If you read the original work, you’ll understand, but in reality, the ones who were being killed are Asians and Africans. Those who don’t know that, yet say they love fantasy are idiots.”


That said, I don't really care either way, I'll appreciate both tolkien's and miyazaki work, as they are both tasteful art in their own way.

Also, his anti-american stance is from an excerpt he made long ago.

QUOTE
A lot has happened in the past 32 years, and Miyazaki has obviously either changed his stance since then or has come to terms with how things are and has learned to go with the flow. Hearing accounts of how stubborn Miyazaki could be as a director, I doubt he would have let Studio Ghibli embrace Disney as it has if he still felt that way. Of course, while Miyazaki does own a car, it’s a Citroen C4. A French automobile...


https://kotaku.com/the-time-hayao-miyazaki-...rica-1696699923

Nice journalism from kotaku.
KLthinker91
post Mar 24 2019, 01:43 PM

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From: Cherasboy
QUOTE(pipedream @ Mar 24 2019, 01:21 PM)
I re-read the article just now.

Seems like his point of contempt is more to the underlying xenophobic theme of LOTR. So we're both wrong.
That said, I don't really care either way, I'll appreciate both tolkien's and miyazaki work, as they are both tasteful art in their own way.

Also, his anti-american stance is from an excerpt he made long ago.
https://kotaku.com/the-time-hayao-miyazaki-...rica-1696699923

Nice journalism from kotaku.
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He also seems to think LOTR doesn't differentiate between killing civilians and enemy and then extrapolated that into mindless and genocidal killing

That's a pretty crazy argument, to jump that far I think you have to really hate something unreasonably

I'm familiar with the supposed LOTR racist vibes but a lot of people miss that Tolkien was a mega geek of Viking and Germanic mythology (both cultures have RING sagas) and he designed his world based on that

Aragorn and the elves are idealised Vikings or Celts

Hobbits are stupid and weak English farm folk

And dwarves and orcs are descended from depictions of Germanic goblins and monsters

The Oliphaunts are inspired by Hannibal's elephants

Southrons in that context are Carthaginians aka North African Spaniards, and Easterlings are Italians and Turks - particularly Byzantine Italians and Turks

If you look at the map of LOTR and mediaeval Europe you'll see it's roughly aligned that way as well. Out West is the Land beyond the seas the elves come from, which isn't America btw - it's the English legend of Avalon

So it's ridiculous to say that Tolkien is racist against Africans, Arabs and Orientals!

Not that I buy any xenophobia from Tolkien either, because in his mythology evil corrupts all regardless of race.

This post has been edited by KLthinker91: Mar 24 2019, 01:46 PM
SUSAngelic Layer
post Mar 24 2019, 02:49 PM

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QUOTE(oucheev @ Mar 24 2019, 07:19 AM)
I never like this 2 movies as he romanticize the subject and only paint Japanese as the victims of WW2.

Grave of the Fireflies is one of the saddest movie ever made but if you think further he made a movie about suffering of Japanese but the rest of the world suffers even worst than Japanese. It is hypocritical for him to criticize American movies but he himself did the same thing where he made one side as victim but ignoring others as victims too.

Wind Rises is worst. He made the man who invented Zero, a pure war machine into some sort of pacifist. Nobody who create war machine can claim themselves as pacifists later. He received money for his creation.
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Miyazaki never made Grave of the Fireflies, in fact he commented that he couldn't make such a film as this. It was made by Isao Takahata of the same company.
Grave of the fireflies wasn't intended to portray the nation as a victim, instead it was criticism of how individuals suffers under oppressive society, where human relationships broken down.
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JRocket
post Mar 24 2019, 03:05 PM

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JerryTeh
post Mar 24 2019, 03:53 PM

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From: Klang


QUOTE(kcchong2000 @ Mar 24 2019, 03:19 AM)
Please stop use internet. Origin from westerners.
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lol stop using your tech gadgets then, mad in china vietnam malaysia indonesia icon_idea.gif ...

its not hating them, but remember what they did to our ancestors and like Hayao miyazaki said, the AWARENESS must be there.

we still can learn from them, do business with them, visit their countries and so on, just dont "lick their asses".
(Eg: high end food = western, high end fashion = western, high end travel destination = western, etc)

i have friends who graduated overseas came back look down on Asians. It is so pathetic.

we must remember. we wont take back by force, we take back by working harder, and remember who we are.
SUSGibeDeMuny
post Mar 24 2019, 05:00 PM

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QUOTE(arubin @ Mar 24 2019, 08:48 AM)
Kotaku did a shit job reporting on GamerGate and on Overwatch controversies, but this article is correct.

They did point out why Miyazaki's views are very strange after all.
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With Kotaku, it's either just a lazy, shitty compilation of ill-informed knowledge collected from the web, or, a proper article, BUT with certain agenda pushed.

Most of the time it's a mix of bullshit and they push that story to be the absolute truth.
Millions of Normies actually follow them and get their thoughts and belief twisted.

Read the article in the OP again.
Right off the bat, in the title, "- seems to hate -".
That's a very strong, suggestive term.

It's like they want you to believe Miyazaki is really all that.
But that's just the surface. Without full context.
Lazy article, almost non-existent sources or explaination, reasoning to why the "hate".

==

Now read this by Kotaku East, back in 2015.
https://kotaku.com/the-time-hayao-miyazaki-...rica-1696699923

That is milder, right? There's no suggestive hipster catchphrases to catch your throughts and direct it to push towards an agenda.

The writer is Japanese, yes, but it doesn't look like he's defending Miyazaki at all. He's just better with reasoning to why the hate.

Isn't it funny that they keep recycling old topics, and yet the old one seems better on this?

Think about it, it's a very young Miyazaki, life is full of hardships. He's an artist and a storyteller.

To me it's just like shitposting on a forum or blog today, letting out your resentment. Opening up and talking bad about everything, not like you really mean it.

Back then you keep it on a journal or diary, writing and, as an artist, draw retarded doodle shit.

So he's expressing his resentment in life, and all the anti-america doodles and writings is just shitposting on a personal, self-indulgent level.

Mangaka does this a lot in their Tankoubon, drawing doodles of themselves and writing small opinions and expression on the inlet cover on the front of their comics, expressing their throughts on current life.
Of course this is milder and more politically correct, but they can be offensive and racial too, but only ironically, as a joke.

They are ironic opinions, not to be taken seriously.
It's like us here shitposting tokok in /k.
Or conversing between friends in a bar.
In South Korean Television they do this on TV, on shows like Happy Together. They talk like normal people, reveal personal stories etc.

This is not a press conference, you're not being Politically Correct, making an official statement in public eyes, on news headline.

The new Kotaku post MADE it look like a news headline. Made it look official. It's fucking bullshit.

How many Normies gonna think it's the absolute truth just by reading the title?
This is what's bullshit with Kotaku and someone like YongYea.

TL;DR - New Article is Ass, Old Article has more citation

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