Hi all,

When driving non-stop (usually on highway), the Kancil's temperature is about 1/3 or 1/4.

However, when it stops or slows down at traffic lights or at heavy traffic roads, the temperature goes up to half.

If stuck in prolong traffic jams, goes up to almost 2/3, before the "red line" area).

Checked with the workshop - No leaking or loss of coolant. He can't even get the temperature up to half (the car is stationary, I guess need to move the car).

So, just asked the workshop to flush/wash the radiator (told me that 9 holes are blocked), and changed the coolant. Not sure if the 9 blocked holes are the culprit. Changing to a new radiator will cost me about RM270. Is that a fair price? Didn't change.

I noticed that Kancil has only 1 fan. This fan will switch on and off depending on the engine temperature and the some maybe 1 or 2 minutes interval (not sure about this).

I *think* the temperature goes up whenever the fan stops - I guess I can hear the fan is kicking in again during jams and the temperature goes down. And when the fan stops, the temperature goes up again. Is it advisable to switch the fan on non-stop?

Some other threads mentioned termostat - is it possible to tweak Kancil's to lower down the temperature so that the fan kicks in more often at lower temperature?


Thanks for your advices,
Garry

im facing the exact same problem with my kancil....the solution is...i'll bypass the termostat..and the fan will turn when we start the engine....ill go to workshop and ask the mechanic to"boss kasi direct ini kipas boss"hehe

Ecko, so now your fan will turn on all the time? Does it 100% fix the temperature problem (no matter how bad the jam is)?

What is the consequences of this bypassing termostat? Weaker engine? How bad is it?

Any alternative like adjusting termostat to make the fan turn faster/longer?

How much you paid to get the "bypass"?

Thanks,
Garry

the cost last time i did the bypass is rm5 only...only need one wire..un plug the wire to the termostat then ground it..very easy...as fas as im concern it solve my kancil temperature problem....stucked in jammed for 3 hours also the temperature never reach half....been by pass the termostat for almost 6 years without any problem with the fan motor..still running strong...
i think there is no effect when u bypass the thermostat..not effect the engine power...
this temperature problem only happen to several kancil only..others kancil like my fren no need to bypass the thermostat also ok....just luck la..hehe

bypassing is an option. But i recomend u to only do it once u tried everything coz there are a few reasons y the manufacturer did not build it tht way. Ive been to tht situation where washing and flushing the radiator wont help much. Instead after a few workshops, one good mechanic told me tht the inner side wall of the hose is full of rust and particles. I Replaced the hose and no more experiencing such prob.

Alternation, can you let me know what are the reasons?

And how much it costs to change the hose? There are 2 hoses right?

I really hope that I don't have to tweak the parts, however, I'm trying hard to spend on trying/experimenting with different methods/workshop

Thanks for your advice.

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Added on June 11, 2007, 5:04 pmEcko, wahh.. my Kancil so unlucky become part of the statistics ar?

Could it be that the termostate not working properly, or the fan is too lembik?

Should I send it to P2 service center to sort this out? Are they competent in this issue?

Thanks.

This post has been edited by garry_npm: Jun 11 2007, 05:04 PM

1 word. It is NORMAL if it goes up to middle mark.
When your temperature needle is showing at this point, it is usually around 90 degs Centrigrade and it's the OPTIMUM engine temperature.
Usually at this point, when it goes slightly above half mark,

i) your radiator fan kicks in, and it takes a while to cool it back to slightly below the middle mark. Again this is Normal.
ii) Your water thermostat has already open fully.

I assume that you are not using the air-conditioning system because whenever your air-cond's compressor kicks in, the fan also spins.

But however please becareful if it's reaching very very close to the first line of the H mark. Pull over if you must.

This post has been edited by SleeplessEyes: Jun 11 2007, 07:07 PM

By passed the thermostat is the easiest way and the cheapest way to overcome the temperature problem...but surely u can try what alternation suggest...like change the thermostat etc...
last time my kancil...change the termostat also not helping,clean all the hoses,radiator and bla2..also not helping..that y my last resort is by pass the thermostat...hehe......but from my experience check here n check there gonna take some time and money also...the choices is in ur hand...
i think u better do full check up on ur kancil cooling system..before do bypassing...allrite bro...

If I were you, I would not do this option of taking away the thermostat and directly connecting to the fan.
Why? It's very obvious that this solution is not only non-street smart idea (no, I am not insulting your ideas) but its actually running away from the actual problem.

I've got friends who did that too on their Nissan Sunnys.They all fear like TS/garry_npm,with reasons that seeing the temperature needle at half-mark freaks them out.
NO!! At Half mark, it's still at the engine's safe operating temperature,in fact it's optimum temperature, at it is around 90degs Celcius.By then, the water thermostat has open to its maximum, fans should be running.

Usually older designed cars such as Nissan Sunny & Kancils, they run cooler when they are cruising. When you see your temperature needle at 1/4 mark, thats around 75 degs Celcius. Thats where your thermostat should start opening by then and maintaining it there while cruising.

Running a radiator fan permanently all the time serves no advantage at all but more disdvantages to an N/A, unmodified engine.

i) Your engine will run below it's optimum temperature
- Higher fuel consumption
- Higher wear and tear to the engine
- Higher emissions (For those who are really concerned)

ii) Your fan motor will have shorter life

iii) Your engine will take alot longer to warm up to it's optimum temperature
- Higher emissions (For those who are really concerned)
- Higher fuel consumptions.

So if anything obviously beyond 3/4 mark always (or very close to the HOT mark), then you have to check your coolants for dirty or radiator for blockage or check your pressure cap in case it's weak.

P.s- I am a Automotive Engineering student,I know what i am typing,and I hope you trust my words.

This post has been edited by SleeplessEyes: Jun 11 2007, 07:25 PM

Ecko, thanks for your input. Looks like no choice but let the mechanics do some diagnostics.

SleeplessEyes, I've read elsewhere too that the Kancil's "normal" point is at the middle. However, somehow it's too close for comfort, and the changes (whether going up or down) happen too quickly. I should say sometimes it's rather unpredictable. And that's the scary part.

If the temperature reaches the "danger" line after >45 mins of jam, probably I don't mind - at least I could predict after X mins.. my car would probably overheat. What is happening now is that this issue happens probably within 15 mins.

Feel worried too if I wanna use jam-proned roads like Federal h/w. Actually Federal is ok, at least still got space to stop at emergency lane. Imagine those 1 lane road (maybe construction etc) and car breaks down there

Thanks!!

its unpredictable cos the car in front of you has his exhaust(hot) air blasting into your radiator. thats why sometimes it heat up faster and sometimes slower. you fan will only kick in once its GOING to be too hot. the engine needs to run hot. too cold and other stuff will happen.

SleeplessEyes is absolutely right. bypass the thermostat ,ay solve overheating problem, but it is not a practical solution.

kancil overheating is a very common problem. this is due to;

- design of bumper/fender/front bonnet are not air flow friendly.
- the engine bay is compact, hot air cannot flow out from the bay easily
- kancil thermostat has very high heat tolerance (this is due to the design and it's DESIGNED THIS WAY)

There are a few ways to resolve this problem. I've arranged it from a cheaper to a more expensive solution

- by pass the thermostat (pls understand the consequences before doing this)
- perform 1 round of radiator cleaning, then flush the tank every month.
- get a thicker radiator from chopshop (ask for a radiator from mira turbo AUTOMATIC)
- replace to a bigger/more powerful fan. brand new fan recommended.
- change the entire bumper/fender/bonnet to Mira L2/L2s/L5; beware of JPJ. Do at your own risk!
- custom make a 3-core copper radiator.

so garry its ur decision la...hehe....
usually theory is helpless unless u experience it urself....bypassing the thermostat may be looks so SCARY to sum people...motor easily broke la...fuel consumption high la(in my own understanding fan doesnt need fuel to run..need electric power..but im not automotive student, what do i know)....but in my experience in myown kancil...i've been bypassing the thermostat for almost 6 years witout any problem at all..like i said before la..its my last resort....

Freshly-started Cold engines have higher FC than nicely warmed up engines. Making it colder when its already cold is that's why u have a thermostat. What you should do is to replace the old clogged hoses etc and see how it goes. If still near to redline, have it looked into. For my case the only time i went to near redline was when a plastic joint thingy cracked and caused a coolant leak (also the car was leaking coolant a bit).. replaced it with a metal one and kautim.

yup ceo684...u rite about those plastic joint...im forgot to mention it....my car already change the plastic joint to some sort of steel look alike joint(dunno what material is that but confirm not plastic)..hehe

usually i just turn my aircond. Switching on the aircond will help to keep the fan running. I tried in jam without aircond. The temp rise half and more. I take it as normal even i have coolant. Is a normal thing the temp rise. Cause my fan runs on thermostat sensor.

SleeplessEyes, thanks for your expert explanation on this. Really appreciate this. Yeah, I would definitely prefer to be able to figure out what is the root cause and the culprit and fix that, rather than finding an easy way out and tweak other stuff. Well, bypass looks good, but I hope I don't have to do that

I'll send my car to a different workshop and see what they got to say about this. This time will focus on hose, plastic joints (where are they, I don't see any?) and whatever other connections.

All of you have been very helpful - thanks!!

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Added on June 12, 2007, 9:11 amJimmy, I do notice that when it jams, the temperature rises, and then the fan kicks in, and subsequently the temperature goes down slightly.

However it looks like the fan doesn't turn long enough. It probably turns less than a minute. Then it shuts off. Then the temperature goes up again.

You see, if this keeps happening, eventually it goes beyond the 1/2 mark and 2/3 mark. I just feel that the fan is not turning long enough or probably not fast enough. The car just unable to cope with the "stress"



This post has been edited by garry_npm: Jun 12 2007, 09:11 AM

According to my mechanic it turned out there's two plastic joints, only one was changed to metal on my ride so the plastic one remaining cracked. Now i have two metal joints

U just describe the 2 plastic joints pls change to metal ones for me i think the workshop will know what to do. In your case, is your car coolant leaking? I believe it should be either this prob or thermostat kong.

This post has been edited by ceo684: Jun 12 2007, 01:15 PM

I think 1 or the reason the fan is not default on is to lower down electrical useage, thus indirectly lowering fuel consumption. Kancil drivers shuld know it when the fan is on especially when the aircon is on ... the RPM is abit lower and u can feel theres lesser power.

1st u better check ur hose by pressing the hose which is connected to the radiator. If u feel like "crunchy" while pressing the hose, it means rust and particles had clogged the hose. Something like cholesterol in blood artery

I 4got how much it took to change the hose liao. I think its less than RM50. I would advice u to go to car accessories shops or ask around for the price so wont kena con.

i think what u mentioning is jerking when air cond compressor is on...the lessser power is because of the compressor not the fan...

thats the good reason why i always use my aircond to unload the stress. Is the car setup of when the fan should turn. is not faulty.

Sent to 2nd mechanic and he checked - actually nothing wrong with radiator, coolant, cap, hose, termostate, etc.

Now thinking maybe the indicator/temperature gauge itself is faulty. Actually, when the indicator goes 1/2, then up to 2/3, fan kicks in, goes down... all these "movements"... am I suppose to expect the indicator goes up and down "smoothly and very gradually", or is it possible for it to "jump" a few mm (drastically)?

The car's indicator is being checked by the same mechanic again today.

garry...u might also wanna check ur battery grounding.....sumtime the grounding intend to loose..

Ecko, how does battery grounding and it being loose affect the indicator? Blur...

Btw, it seems I can't change the individual temperature indicator/needle. Need to change entire panel (including speedometer, mileage gauge, etc). Sigh.. How much should that cost?

Thanks.

i found some rust in my kancil 660 radiator inside the radiator cap area, will can cause any problem?
i think my kancil never done flushing radiator before, if i do flushing will it cause leaking to the radiator??
if in case need to replace a new radiator, how much will cost?

mine one also like that, but i take my car to a radiator shop and tell him to clean my radiator, he opened it, showed me that only 3 lubang of my radiator is working. It is full with rust, i see he use some flat metal like metal ruler or something to poke the hole and all the rust come out already. then wash it kau kau. Done. the temp back to normal, no need to bypass a fan. then he ask me if i wan to remove a valve that opened at 80 celcius, cos he say sometimes that thing maby jammed and he say that thing is useless, he say that thing is usefull when u are driving in a cold weather. now no more heating problem, but i have difficulties to start my car on morning. now i regret already why agreed when he asked me isit wan to remove the valve.. but the great spot is my car now dont have any heating problem. now only 1/4. only when i drive it fast fast 130 kph then it will go 2/4.

Flushing is just taking out the radiator and give it a good washing. Shouldn't cause leaking unless the cleaner drop it/break it/poke a hole to it I think flushing it should clear all the rust and you should use coolant because it does contain some anti-rust ingredient.

I was quoted about RM270 for a new radiator. Not sure if that's a fair price. I'll assume this is original Kancil radiator.

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Added on June 14, 2007, 10:00 amWahlao.. blocked so many holes ar? For me out of so many holes, only 7 holes were blocked. Yeah, they will need to poke it or scratch it to remove the rust.

Think the valve you mentioned here is the termostat?

This post has been edited by garry_npm: Jun 14 2007, 10:00 AM

i sounds not connected rite??sound funny rite??hehe...lazy to explain la..heehe

mayb there is an air-lock in the radiator...if there's air-lock in the radiator den the water cooling system is not really doing its job...coz heat can't b transfer thru AIR...

bout rusts in radiator..checkout... http://www.lubroil.com/C1.htm

Quote from the URL above: "After a few days drive, scale and rust will appear on top of the cooling reservoir."

I'm puzzled how rust can float?

i dunno, maby it is the thermostat. i think its kinda a valve......... nvm my problem now solved, only i got gasket problem with my engine. TS go flush it first bah, no need to get a new one. a new one RM 200+ Is APM Malaysia de radiator..

This post has been edited by developer: Jun 14 2007, 02:34 PM

Poor ground will not affect just 1 temperature meter. It will make the entire electrical system perform poorly, theorically. That includes your headlamps, radio, etc. Your headlamps will be dimmer and your radio will have poorer sounds.

I just dont see any relations, Ecko, in just affecting 1 meter.

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Added on June 15, 2007, 12:54 pmMy advice, is if you cannot suggest a good solution, then dont bother typing.
Just sit back and observe.

it will only make you look more stupid if you write more silly suggestions.

Yes I know you're gonna say next "This is a public forum and I have all rights to talk and type whatever I wish and whatever I want",
but as I mentioned earlier,
it will only make you look more stupid if you write more silly suggestions

P.s- This is my advice for you. If you take it as a insult, I cant help you on this one.

This post has been edited by SleeplessEyes: Jun 15 2007, 01:00 PM

ok la...im the one who stupid....im the one who doesnt know anything...ok lor.....other wise im not automotive student rite????
my advise to u....dun easily called people stupid la...not nice....looks so rude that way....

im suggesting that way...because im already experiencing it...seriously...
actuallly it kinda hard to explain...why dun u come n c me...then we discuss more about it???im keen to learn from pro like u SleeplessEyes...

damn.. driving 850 kancil for the whole day... reaching 250km perday

result:

Temp Max.. water boilded when open the bonet.. have to pour water to cool it down

how did you solved the gasket problem? your mechanic charge you how much? my mother surveyed some of the places here (in puchong), they said gasket problem, everything they charged RM200 plus! have to leave car for 3 days, i think it includes cleaning the radiator...

continuing survey..

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Added on June 21, 2007, 10:00 pmBought a new radiator today, APM RM205.. btw, the thermostat missing!!! add another RM38 for it..

This post has been edited by bsmohd: Jun 21 2007, 10:00 PM

Hi all,

I've driven my car for a few days now and the problem of the temperature going up and down has gone

I think I missed out an important info on my original problem (see below). When I mentioned the temperature moves up/down, I didn't mean it went up gradually/gracefully/slowly. The temperature gauge needle actually went up/down quite fast/drastically/jumpy about few mm. I wish I had recorded that and put it in YouTube for you guys to see.

Anyway, NO BYPASS, no fixing/changing of radiator and fan. Somehow, there were 2 problems:
1. The temperature gauge moving too fast, which is not suppose to happen (according to mechanic). Change a device called "Thermo Switch" - RM18.00. After that, the gauge behaved properly - movement is now gradually, although temperature still go up.
2. To fix this temperature going up, he changed something called "Fan Switch" - RM45.00.

Now everything kaotim. Labor charged me RM45.00 (actually took a few days to diagnose the problem and test driving).

Good to know that you have been prompt in fixing-up your car. At least you can be sure your trusty Kancil engine will go on until kingdom come.

has your engine ever overheated before ?

Thanks. Hopefully it does

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Added on June 25, 2007, 2:01 amErrrm.. don't think so.


This post has been edited by garry_npm: Jun 25 2007, 02:01 AM

cos mine broke when the engine was overheated.

I once got my engine overheated and I drove few more kilometres to the mechanics.
When I arrived, he told me that I was very lucky my engine didn't broke down coz it was operating under intense heat.
Changed my radiator. Costs me 180.
My car has been good since then. Until month later.
I was stucked in a traffic jam (with air-cond on) and the temp was rising to 3/4 (Near the overheat mark).
I switched off air-cond. Still the same. Drove few more kilometres and the temp going down.
Till now I had this problem. Temperature rising when not moving.
Checked the radiator fan (it's working).

Had that before, twice..
Fan will spin but it will stop after some time then the temp rises

Check ur water level.
If its fine, its probably either
- faulty thermostat : cooked n not sending d correct signal to acticate d fan
- faulty fan (not spinning fast enuf or totally failed) coz temperature goes down after some driving. May also b fan switch

try service ur radiator..

or the temperature switch for cooling fan is faulty.

Suggest you install a 'double size' water tank and change the water tank's fan motor to a new and good quality one. (tell foreman you want a good quality fan motor).

After re-fill water + collant, every day check water tank and add water if necessary.
(When re-fill fresh water + fresh coolant, some air bubble trap inside and cannot get out, must drive the car than the air bubble will gradually get out to the top of water tank, that is why need to check water level every day and add water )

also check your radiator cap. a faulty radiator cap also can cause and engine to overheat.

My 660 Kancil manual, on air conditioning 15 min, needle near H zone, if don't turn on aircon normally stay at half zone. what is wrong please help?