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 Clearing stocks before the coming crash, what have I missed out in the analysis?

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icemanfx
post Aug 23 2018, 04:04 PM

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QUOTE(plumberly @ Aug 23 2018, 10:19 AM)
Plan to clear most of my stocks in the next few months before the coming crash. Did some analysis to help in my decision making later.

Appreciate feedback on things I over looked etc in my analysis.

Assume 4-6% pa growth and 20-30% drop in price during the crash, it will take 3-4 yrs for the price to recover.

Instead of wasting the 3-4 years for the price to recover, won't it be better if I sell out before the crash, put that money in FD etc. That is, a positive net gain during the 3-4 years.

I know this is too idealistic but what have I done wrong?

Yes, I do not have a crystal ball to know when it will crash. But a crash WILL happen. Just a matter of time.

Appreciate a constructive feedback/discussion. Thanks.

P/S I think I put this in the wrong place. Should be in the discussion section. Can someone help me to transfer it? Or tell me how to? Thanks.
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Bull Market Hits a Milestone: 3,453 Days. Most Americans Aren’t at the Party.

The party has been going for more than a decade. But a lot of Americans haven’t been celebrating.

Stocks crossed a major threshold on Wednesday, when the 10-year-old bull market arguably became the longest on record.

It ranks among the great booms in American market history. The Standard & Poor’s 500-stock index has soared more than 320 percent since emerging from the rubble of the financial crisis in March 2009, creating more than $18 trillion in wealth.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/22/business...pe=sectionfront

Stock market correction is a matter of when not if. if you don't feel comfortable with current market then sell. during bull run, most if not all herd are blinded by greed.

icemanfx
post Aug 24 2018, 02:27 PM

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QUOTE(plumberly @ Aug 23 2018, 04:47 PM)
Noted and thanks.
Thanks.

Remind me of reading another article on my mobile the other day which I hope to re-read again later. But cannot find it now. About Cardiff indicator which has signaled the past recession rather well once the readings were above 200. If you know where to get that article, please drop a line here. I think most likely I did not get the name right, Cardiff.
Thanks.

Yes, hoping to get some PB or MB during crash. But dont think there will be many sellers then.
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QUOTE(CE|C93 @ Aug 24 2018, 10:51 AM)
If enough investors think as you do, thats when we will have a crash. brows.gif
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QUOTE(markedestiny @ Aug 24 2018, 11:10 AM)
even technical analysis chart works along self-fulfilling prophecy  too  laugh.gif
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Although long term price could be at equilibrium but short term price is largely driven by speculative or sentiment e.g o&g stocks, btc, recently.

icemanfx
post Aug 24 2018, 04:07 PM

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QUOTE(foofoosasa @ Aug 24 2018, 02:48 PM)
Valuation wise the only stocks I see on stretch is US tech stocks.

Malaysia Market due to its cut back of project and average price of Crude oil, most people still has slightly bearish view on Malaysian stocks.

10 year treasury yield still have safe margin above Fed rate.

Honestly speaking I still think the unprecedented amount of QE since 09' to 13' still havent 100% fully reflect in stock market. The only one truly already reflected is in property market such as Hong kong and Sydney , Vancouver etc ( I know how crazy is the price went up especially these few places ).

For me I am betting there is one more bull coming (the most crazy bull run ever)....but with bearish view with a lot of trade war issue it probably takes another 1 -2 years before it comes.

Just my view la

PS: I am still holding 85% stocks now in personal porfolio 15% cash ( cash that for stocks investment exclude other purpose).
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US QE fueled worldwide assets inflation; similarly, these bull run slowed or ended with qe. shrinking of u.s fed balance sheet will likely have similar profound effects. erratic and unconventional behaviour of dt will likely add uncertainty and confusion during next crisis.

as no economic recession is the same, next will be from unconventional, non-traditional or unexpected sector.

This post has been edited by icemanfx: Aug 24 2018, 04:08 PM
icemanfx
post Aug 24 2018, 04:56 PM

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QUOTE(foofoosasa @ Aug 24 2018, 04:14 PM)
so what is your opinion then? are we already entering bear phase? beginning of the crash? late bull market? or etc???

just want hear more opinion. No right or wrong.
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Stock market crash always begin earlier than expected and unexpectedly.

bear phase is after over 20% price drop.

icemanfx
post Aug 28 2018, 02:00 PM

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QUOTE(foofoosasa @ Aug 24 2018, 04:14 PM)
so what is your opinion then? are we already entering bear phase? beginning of the crash? late bull market? or etc???

just want hear more opinion. No right or wrong.
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Long term stock price reflect fundamentals; however, market sentiment supersede in the short term. different people interpret data differently by placing different weight.

believe the biggest threat to u.s economy is inflation rate. dt behavior is likely to fuel inflation rate rise and subsequent bank rate.


This post has been edited by icemanfx: Aug 28 2018, 02:26 PM
icemanfx
post Aug 28 2018, 04:12 PM

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QUOTE(askingquestion @ Aug 28 2018, 03:50 PM)
I believe US share market would crash if Donald Trump is impeached.
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dt is not the sole factor that drove up stock price. in the contrary, if he didn't start trade war, u.s stock price would have even higher.

This post has been edited by icemanfx: Aug 28 2018, 04:12 PM
icemanfx
post Aug 29 2018, 09:14 AM

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QUOTE(askingquestion @ Aug 28 2018, 04:35 PM)
Its not really a remark on Donald Trump.

I believe any US president getting impeach will crash the stock market.
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If dt is impeached, president pence may be more market friendly, stock price could rally instead.

icemanfx
post Aug 29 2018, 01:58 PM

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QUOTE(Showtime747 @ Aug 29 2018, 09:29 AM)
plumberly, you might want to rethink your plan as long as bro iceman thinks stock market will crash....

You may miss out on the continued bull run...
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QUOTE(Showtime747 @ Aug 29 2018, 11:44 AM)
I was in your same thought 1 year earlier. And I moved my money out of stock market since mid-last year  biggrin.gif

The market continued to increase, until recently, the stock market backed down.

Stock market has been giving me double digit return before 2018 (div + cap appreciation). I think I would have made double digit this year should I remain in stock market.

But investment is all about risk and return and comfort. Now that my return is much lower (4-6%), but much safer (mostly capital guaranteed). I am now a spectator from the ring side  biggrin.gif

Trust your own instinct and prepare to accept lower return if you are risk averse.

Great thread you started as most threads here are about how to invest, which stock to buy etc. Its an alternative view and reminding people things may go wrong...
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icemanfx
post Sep 2 2018, 12:50 PM

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QUOTE(plumberly @ Sep 2 2018, 12:24 PM)
No feedback/comment on my overview? Tolong lah.

Updated one as below. As of now, tempted with 70% probability to sell 90-95% of the shares, keeping some for sentimental reason. Ha.
[attachmentid=10003220]
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Everyone's risks appetite is different and assess risks differently.

Since you have made up your mind, need not ask strangers for opinion.
icemanfx
post Sep 2 2018, 08:32 PM

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QUOTE(plumberly @ Sep 2 2018, 06:58 PM)
Noted and thanks.  icon_rolleyes.gif

If I sell, it will be a big deviation from my original retirement plan. To minimise me overlooking important factors and thus making the wrong decision, I then asked here for inputs for me to consider as there are many friends here more knowledgeable on the subject than me.

I do not know what I do not know. So ... cry.gif

Eg I was planning to get 2 new tyres and put them on the front. More tear and wear on the front tyres. So the better ones should be at the front. Learnt from a friend that new tyres should be at the rear. Why? Easier for the car to go into hydroplaning at the rear if the new ones are at the front. Best to watch this video. Put new tyres at the rear to maximise control.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oa9hzcjdi5Q

Sorry for the off topic here.  notworthy.gif
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It is your money. If your analysis is correct, you funds is protected. If your gut feeling is wrong, you only made less. You can treat "lost gain if any" as insurance or hedging premium.

On the other hand, stocks is liquid, you could sell in a instant. Offload all when the time comes.

Placing new tires on the front is widely practice but inappropriate.

This post has been edited by icemanfx: Sep 3 2018, 12:29 AM
icemanfx
post Oct 3 2018, 02:53 PM

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Nothing goes up forever or non stop, stock market will crash eventually and often earlier than most expected. Few if any could predict when and how market will crash.

If one liquidate early may miss out further gain but can consider this "lost gain" as insurance premium.

Given amount debts piled up by many corporate and gomen, next financial crisis is likely triggered by bonds default and elevated bank interest rate.

This post has been edited by icemanfx: Oct 3 2018, 02:54 PM
icemanfx
post Oct 10 2018, 08:06 AM

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Historically, price crashed from bull run or price bubble. What is bubble? Do we have a bubble on hand? Is the stock market overpriced? Is current profits growth sustainable? How will fed rate rise impact stock market? What will likely trigger the crash? Tsla? Some stocks price are currently over 10% lower than peak. Will they drop more? Has the market priced in trade war rout, fed rate rise?

This post has been edited by icemanfx: Oct 10 2018, 10:18 AM
icemanfx
post Oct 12 2018, 06:09 PM

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QUOTE(Fortezan @ Oct 12 2018, 04:35 PM)
Truth is nobody knows, those who believe this is just a correction would have collected yesterday and tell you to do the same in hope that price can be pushed higher, those who believe a major crash is coming would tell you to save your bullets in hope that price can drop further for them to collect at a bargain
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The market is on random walk in the short term.

icemanfx
post Oct 12 2018, 11:51 PM

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QUOTE(Ancient-XinG- @ Oct 12 2018, 07:08 PM)
no idea... but I am rally tired of this. Crash just crash la...

Still remember Last FEB? Almost same and rebound.

Just hope this time around dead cat bounce and the true correction can go on for Q4.
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What fundamental has changed since 1, 3 or 12 months ago?

icemanfx
post Oct 17 2018, 01:21 PM

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QUOTE(Hansel @ Oct 17 2018, 01:05 PM)
Good thread here,....

To reply to Iceman in the above question,...

1) Fed rates have moved higher.
2) Trump Tariffs onto China have become more more.

Opinions ??
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The impact? How much income is trimmed?
icemanfx
post Nov 2 2018, 02:53 PM

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QUOTE(plumberly @ Nov 1 2018, 01:42 PM)
The bonus loss there is secondary to the main aim of avoid the big dip due to recession.

Not looking at the day to day trading here but looking from a distance at the stormy weather now for the coming HURRICANE/CYCLONE/TYPHOON/PERFECT STORM/xxx. Ha.
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The market is on random walk in the short run.

What are economical/financial unsustainable that will cause hurricane/perfect storm to the market?

Recent market rout was the hurricane predicted or just uneventful/minor thunder storm?

This post has been edited by icemanfx: Nov 2 2018, 04:25 PM
icemanfx
post Nov 21 2018, 05:44 PM

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Is recent stock rout consider crash?
icemanfx
post Nov 21 2018, 06:52 PM

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QUOTE(Hansel @ Nov 21 2018, 06:08 PM)
The best way to ascertain this is to define : what constitutes a CRASH ?

If an index drops 20% from a recent high - this constitutes a CORRECTION.

So, what is a crash ?
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Stocks clearing before coming crash still necessary/relevant?

This post has been edited by icemanfx: Nov 22 2018, 12:03 AM
icemanfx
post Nov 22 2018, 10:51 PM

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QUOTE(plumberly @ Nov 22 2018, 09:16 AM)
Thought I got the % all mixed up, thought 10% = correction, >20% = crash. So looked up the web to refresh my memory. See below.

[attachmentid=10118022]

One China's index is already in recession region. More to follow?
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So stocks clearing before next crash is still relevant or too late?
icemanfx
post Nov 23 2018, 11:02 AM

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QUOTE(armadasaxon @ Nov 23 2018, 09:56 AM)
Better start clearing.
Global recession and trade war.
The person controlling is dumb clown .everyday waging war to maga only.

Results all not good also.
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If Joe and Jane anticipate economic recession, almost certain it will occur earlier than expected.


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