To me Jesus is the only begotten Son of God. Jesus is also the Father, and he is also the Holy Spirit. He turns into different modes for different purposes, but He is one and only God.

What Moses did has nothing to do with spreading the gospel. He committed grevious sin, and God convicted him, and which is why he ran to the desert.

Jesus asked Peter to lay down the sword when Peter tried to defend him from being captured. Now why would Jesus deviated from his teaching of love by allowing John Calvin to kill another believer for the sake of defending his gospel?

Character assasinations is always a norm.

Yes. Can God be limited by anything?

No. That's where I draw the line with Oneness Pentecostal. Water baptism has nothing to do with salvation. Jesus said one must be born of Water and Spirit. Water is not literal water. Water means cleansing of sins. Salvation is all done by God alone, without the contributions of men, including and especially not water baptism. To me it is only a church ritual.

You think David case is similar? While you conveniently dismiss my example of Peter and Jesus in the Garden of Getshemane. Really?

I am not blaming John Calvin, nor Paul, because they were ignorant. Make no mistake on this. I am attacking this doctrine alone.

Look, the Jewish people all believe in one God only, why can't christians do the same and believe in one God, after all the source of our Bible is derived from the book of Torah. Jesus never said the Torah book was wrong. The scribe (who was an expert in the Torah laws) in Mark 12:32-34 specificaly stated to Jesus that God is singular not plural, and Jesus answered yes.

And why John Calvin? Because he was an influential person in the Protestant body at that time. Servetus recoqnized this fact, and so he sought him to get his support after he was rejected and condemned by the catholics, in order for the true teaching of one God with no distinct persons to be preached worldwide. Instead John acted like Saul in persecuting the christians.

Despite of that they still believe in the Messiah. It's just Jesus they cannot accept as their Messiah. But that is their problem. On the contrary, our problem as christian is believing in another Jesus. Jesus that is depicted in the trinity is not the true Jesus.

Water Baptism is done solely to say thank you to the Lord who forgives your sins. And also to mark the day for you to remember for the rest of your life on that day you were saved by God.

Nothing from your works or your rituals can cleanse you from your sins. Only God can do that.

So water baptism must be done AFTER, not BEFORE you are saved. This is where most churches made this mistake. Especially catholic, who practices baptism on babies, those without faith yet.

Look at what Peter said to the people Acts 2:28,
"...be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins."

The word "for" here is where many christians get confused. They think "for" means "in order to". The truth is the meaning of "for" here is "as a result of".

Then can you help me with what is wrong with the verse below? Using you trinitarian view.

In 2 John 1:7
I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge God Almighty Father as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.

So you confess God Almighty Father is not Jesus Christ. Which means God The Father did not become flesh, God the Holy Spirit did not become flesh, only God the Son became flesh. If all three Gods, or persons, are co-equal and co-creator and co-eternal, to create human being, why only one person had to drink the cup of sufferings while the other 2 persons relax in heaven? If they are in union, or united, or in-sync, or whatever you want to call that, why not all 3 persons became flesh?

If only one person became flesh, how can we say God became flesh when the other 2 persons did not?

Does it not show you how the trinity doctrine manages to make you agree that the one true God, did not became flesh? When a person denies God became flesh then he fits the bill of an anti-christ.

NIV, just that I change the word Jesus Christ to God Almightly Father because He IS God. Is that wrong?

No I am not wrong. God is only one. Fact is your catholic teaches heresy. Trinity doctrine is created by the anti-christ spirit.

See this verse in 2 Thessalonians 2:4,
He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.

All churches almost 99% of them, including the catholic worship the triune God. The triune God is a counterfeit God. But doesn't matter to me as this is already foretold in these verses,

Matthew 7
13 Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.
14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

I just want to exhibit true faith. Isn't that how the Apostles sacrificed themselves? Amidst accusations and oppressions, they hold on to their faith and willing to die for Jesus Christ, the one true Living God.

Jesus Christ is the only God, not the triune god.

In Acts 7
55 But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God.
56 “Look,” he said, “I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.”

So what did Stephen see? He did not see two persons, he saw one person. He saw Jesus Christ only. The term right hand is a symbolic of power. It is not literal. He did not see two bodies. In John 4:24 it is written that God is a Spirit. Spirit is invisible, we cannot see Spirit. Where is the right hand of a Spirit of God when God Spirit is everywhere?

So what Stephen meant is he saw Jesus at his position of power, wielding the power as God, sitting at the heavenly throne, alone. He is the only God he saw.

And when finally Stephen was stoned to death, he cried at his last breath and said, "Lord Jesus receive my spirit!" If Stephen saw two persons, why he ignored the other one?

Interestingly the Apostle John also received a similar vision in Revelation 1:13-16, where he saw only one person who he said was like a son of man, with white hair, blazing eyes, wearing robes, and glowing bronze feet. And the person who is the son of man said,

"Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last, I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades."

The doctrine of the trinity has not produced the fruit of the Spirit, as it was developed, it was also codified - that if one did not believe in it he was to be put to death. We all know the tragic history of Christendom, going back to Nicaea, to Justinian, the Inquisition, the tragedy of Michael Servetus... all persecutions for the sake of defending this trinity doctrine!

And imagine if I myself, and you, for all these years have never fully understand the trinity concept, then how about the mind of a 10-year child when we start teaching the poor child on this stuffs? Surely you don't expect him to even understand the concept of 3-in-1 God, most likely he will ended up seeing God in three! Congrats then! Let's pat ourselves in the back because we just managed to deceive a kid into believing in Tritheism! I was that kid before so I know what is confusion!

When we say the trinity is a complex subject, we should also know that the word "complex" also stands for CONFUSION. And who is the Lord of Confusion?

The Holy Spirit is also known as the Spirit of Christ. In Acts 16:6-7,

"Paul and his companions traveled throughout the region of Phrygia and Galatia, having been kept by the Holy Spirit from preaching the word in the province of Asia. 7 When they came to the border of Mysia, they tried to enter Bithynia, but the Spirit of Jesus would not allow them to."

For me, Spirit of Christ cannot be another different person than Jesus Himself. Only this time the role is different. No longer His mission was to atone for the Sins, but to become the Mighty Teacher to all of us. So God sends His OWN Spirit to everyone that believes in Him alone. This makes God even more glorified as He does all the works for us - beginning from His sacrifice, to teaching us through the Spirit and to finally bring us to salvation (justification, regeneration, sanctification, redemption), and none of those coming from our own efforts.


John 1:1-2 doesn't provide a strong enough proof for 2 different persons in God. If I say in the beginning I have wisdom, and the wisdom is with me, and the wisdom is me - that doesn't make the wisdom in me a different person.

One big problem in the trinity doctrine is that it believes Jesus ALREADY existed before the creation. But numerous times in the OT, God said He is alone as in Isaiah 44:6
"...I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God."

And then God predicted what will happen to Him in Zechariah 12:10
"...and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced.."

My belief is that God did not have a Son YET before Jesus was born. He is an eternally immortal being that cannot be sacrificed, so He needed to have a Son to do it. And when everything has been completed (the atonement of Sins) His Son, Jesus Christ returned to Heaven to INHERIT HIM.

Jesus during His ministry as a man could not be called God yet, so His title at that time was Son of God, a title below God. Only after He died and ressurected, Thomas then confirmed His elevated status as God. (But this is my opinion only, and what I learned myself)

I have no problem with that because Jesus was the Son of God at that time. He had not completed His mission yet to atone the sins of mankind. If you cannot see beyond this then I am afraid God purposely made you blind on this, I think. Sorry. Well, that is how reformist believe anyway - the unconditional election. Those predistined to damnation cannot and will not understand the truth...

Sorry. I was just playing around.

Jesus said to Peter, who am I according to you, and Peter answered "You are the Son of God". Did Jesus said He was God at that time before He died?

Then ONLY after Jesus was resurected again did Jesus used Thomas to confirm and be the witness to everyone that He had taken the form as God, the one and only God. Jesus as the Son of God before, as God after. He received from His Father the greatest reward, and the reward is inheriting the Father.

Read again. He did not say He was God, He just telling them the truth, that His memories were His Father's memories. Their action was because of their own foolish understanding - that He claimed Himself God at that time. What I want to point out here is what Jesus acquired from Peter on his own admission that He was the Son of God. And Jesus replied to Peter that his answer was a direct revelation from God.

Or maybe I made a mistake?

I checked in John 14:28,
You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.

That must mean Jesus was STILL at a lesser status prior to His ascension to Heaven.

But Son most definitely not equal (in status) to Father as the above verse suggested. And that disproves the trinity again when one of its tenet is Co-Equal.

This post has been edited by Haledoch: Aug 10 2018, 11:55 AM