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> Military Thread V26

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Frozen_Sun
post Jan 29 2019, 11:07 AM

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QUOTE(azriel @ Jan 29 2019, 10:12 AM)
I think he meant better than nothing.
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oh ntg = nothing
I thought next generationtrainer....my mind gets too technical

Frozen_Sun
post Jan 31 2019, 08:16 AM

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QUOTE(KYPMbangi @ Jan 30 2019, 12:46 PM)
Gunmen fire at plane in Papua, Indonesia, killing 1 soldier
[sos]
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Last gasp of insurgency...central government is already giving more money that it gets from natural resources in Papua...$7 bn of fund transfer to Papua this year. They strike back when now infrastructure and development are being made. It's a lost cause.
Frozen_Sun
post Feb 2 2019, 11:04 AM

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QUOTE(azriel @ Feb 2 2019, 10:30 AM)
Hopefully, TNI-AD will buy at least a hundred with 2020 budget...I think they have enough helicopters and artillery already. Time to retire those AMX-13.
Frozen_Sun
post Feb 3 2019, 01:07 AM

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QUOTE(Fat & Fluffy @ Feb 2 2019, 08:51 PM)
so its more of a frame life extension?

indon 30+ f-16 ok la... for peace time... wonder what's their readiness level is like
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Defense budget for this year is $7.7 billion, with 2018 GDP of $1.074 trillion...it means that ratio of defense budget to GDP has dropped from 0.8 percent to 0.7 percent this year.

Far from average regional ratio of around 2.5 percent.

With 2019 state budget of $170 billion, now, it's about huge budget boost to infrastructure, education and fund transfer to provinces, to the point that far surpassing province contribution to central government. There's talk that Jakarta MRT will be extended to 150km in total track length.

Papua now gets more money than what the government takes. Bali also gets double the subsidy money than tax contribution to the central government. Even each village gets huge direct injection of fund with dana desa.

I guess Indonesians are feeling secure about themselves, taking passive approach for everything. No war in sight.
Frozen_Sun
post Feb 3 2019, 11:33 PM

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QUOTE(walao eh @ Feb 3 2019, 04:10 PM)
Why so less spending?

Sad both MY and ID spend so less on defense while SG spend most within ASEAN.

My feeling is defence is absolute necessity for any country. You cut back on your defence at your own risk. Feel that MY, ID, TH, PH should be spending a lot more on defense. That way, at least, India can be countered even if China is hard to counter. And 10 countries of ASEAN together can at least pose a credible challenge to China if the initial steps are taken.

Raising defense budget and efficiency of expenditure may be two of the most important initial steps.
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The president only talks about infrastructure all the time...with limited military knowledge and criticizes procurements of previous president, like saying that Leopard 2 will sink in mud, which is conveniently debunked by TNI-AD by driving Leopard on ricefield terrain and deep mud at natuna.

The menhan is a pacifist...openly says that.... it's no matter TNI has limited weaponry, because no war in sight.

If this is Hearts of Iron game...it's like Indonesia gets significant peacetime penalty

This post has been edited by Frozen_Sun: Feb 3 2019, 11:35 PM
Frozen_Sun
post Feb 4 2019, 01:38 PM

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QUOTE(walao eh @ Feb 3 2019, 11:41 PM)
World's fourth biggest population.

Got to make it use of it lah.

Need to have a sophisticated space program. Even Singkie Ozzie startups now planning to launch space launch vehicles by 2020-2021.

You dont get to decide when war is imposed on you lah. That's all I'm saying.

There is a price to pay for underpreparedness. For all countries.
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From $7.7bn budget...about $1 bn is available for new procurements...This year is confirmed 6 more AH-64, perhaps next year three more locally made diesel submarine and air defense frigate from Denmark.

If the 2.5 percent GDP rule is followed...then it would be $25 bn....then could have huge shopping spree.......But won't happen....

The government is more keen in giving away huge piles of money like this. No wonder OPM feels cornered......


Frozen_Sun
post Feb 6 2019, 06:59 PM

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QUOTE(Fat & Fluffy @ Feb 6 2019, 10:09 AM)
Indonesia's military demands civilian positions for officers

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JAKARTA • Indonesian bureaucrats may soon face tighter competition to reach the top rungs of the career ladder, with the government planning to allow active military officers to take up positions in ministries and government institutions.

The Indonesian military, known as the Tentara Nasional Indonesia (TNI), is formulating an amendment to the TNI law, that was enacted in 2004, to permit middle-and high-ranking officers to serve in the top two levels of ministries and state institutions.

TNI commander Hadi Tjahjanto said the revision was aimed at reorganising the military, which has been unable to provide positions to around 500 middle-and high-ranking officers. Under the existing law, military officers can occupy civilian positions only if they are retired, and they can be placed only in offices that handle political, state security and state defence matters.


user posted image

After President Suharto stepped down in May 1998, the TNI had to adjust its role from being a tool of the regime to becoming a professional defence force.

Soldiers were stripped of their dual defence and civilian functions that had enabled them to be involved in politics and independent businesses. The TNI budget was controlled by the government and supervised by the House of Representatives. Furthermore, legislation including the TNI Law was aimed at reforming the military and curbing the desire of active officials to return to politics.

TNI members have to retire from service to be permitted to take part in businesses or government institutions, or to run in elections.

A 2017 study by the Centre for Strategic and International Studies estimated that since 1998, the TNI has produced a surplus of more than 100 military officers per year.

President Joko Widodo last week announced he had agreed to open promotions for senior military officers and raise the retirement age for lower ranks. The President said there would be some 60 positions for high-ranking officers of the army, navy and air force.

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"One-to three-star military officers can serve in the 60 positions and colonels can fill (some) of the positions to be promoted to star ranks," Mr Joko said. "I have also ordered the law and human rights minister to, together with the TNI commander, revise the retirement age of enlisted personnel and non-commissioned officers from 53 to 58 years (in the 2004 TNI Law)."

Ms Bivitri Susanti, a constitutional law expert from the Jakarta-based Jentera School of Law, said the plan would lead to a revival of the dual defence and civilian functions, in a setback to military reform efforts. "We have to keep the military's role separate from the civilian sphere. They should not (have a role) as public officials," she said.

Mr Ahmad Riza Patria of the opposition Gerindra Party criticised the plan, saying: "The military should understand that civil servants have built their careers (in ministries and state institutions) for years. If military officers can fill positions civil servants should fill, that means civil servants will lose their chance to be appointed to the posts."
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Perhaps TNI-AD needs to build new divisions.......they have 95 infantry battalions in total.
So, surplus officers can be posted in divisional and brigade HQs. The 3rd infantry division KOSTRAD was established last year with existing infantry, artillery and armored battallions.

Frozen_Sun
post Feb 7 2019, 08:14 AM

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QUOTE(Fat & Fluffy @ Feb 6 2019, 09:09 PM)
they have got territorial hqs, kodam korem kodim and plenty of formation offices.. some can say to be bloated... what more female staff that operates unlike many other country's female military personal

it is not good for the military to control politics but for indon's case i believe it would be for the better to keep the religious hardliners at bay...

i always have the perception that the top echelon of indon's military are controlled by the CIA, especially those that had trained in murica
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I've seen army personnels from babinsa, kodim and korem respond to civil disturbances quickly. Many problems are resolved before they escalate and reach the media.

Nearly armed forces around the world are already infiltrated by CIA. Even if some top brasses are controlled by CIA, I'm not so sure at what extent CIA can exert their goals.

Any controversial decisions like establishing permanent facilities for US military will receive significant public opposition. At best, they could ensure close cooperation with US military and these officers will recommend US-made military hardware to the government.

Many ASEAN armed forces have been training intensively with US military and buy a lot of things from US. So, we can say that ID, MY, TH, SG and PH armed forces could already be infiltrated by CIA.
Frozen_Sun
post Feb 13 2019, 07:28 AM

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QUOTE(MilitaryMadness @ Feb 12 2019, 03:40 PM)
Warship of the day: PLAN Type 055 Destroyer

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The lead ship of the 13,000-ton Type 055 Destroyer class, the Nanchang currently undergoing sea trials. A total of 7 more vessels of the class is under construction with plans for up to 20 vessels in total up for production.

Armed with a powerful radar system and a large number of anti-aircraft & anti-ship missiles, the warships are poised to stand as one of the most powerful warships in service in Asia.
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classified as destroyer to downplay its capability...as heavy as Slava class
Frozen_Sun
post Feb 13 2019, 08:06 AM

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QUOTE(MilitaryMadness @ Feb 13 2019, 07:49 AM)
The Type 055 is heavier and larger than actual Ticonderoga-class cruisers.

Also, has anyone mentioned that the PLAN now has 50 (or even more) Type 056 Corvettes? I think around 2 years ago there were just around 16-18 or something like that. Crazy.

user posted image
Link: PLAN's 50th Type 056 Corvette 'Wuzhou' Launched by Shipyard in Southern China
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Type 054 frigate and Type 052 destroyer classes too....
Frozen_Sun
post Feb 13 2019, 06:51 PM

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Once all Type 052D DDGs are near completion....it may continue with Type 052E.....its drawings are already posted at defence.pk forum
Frozen_Sun
post Feb 15 2019, 06:56 AM

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QUOTE(azriel @ Feb 14 2019, 10:45 PM)
Air defence frigate is more crucial for TNI AL....air attack is more threatening


Frozen_Sun
post Feb 15 2019, 11:15 PM

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QUOTE(azriel @ Feb 15 2019, 08:50 AM)
First cutting ceremony of the bulk head of the KF-X Fighter Jet. Credit to KAI.

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https://m.facebook.com/KoreaAerospace


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A historic moment...if going smoothly, could become the future backbone of TNI-AU
Frozen_Sun
post Feb 17 2019, 06:31 AM

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QUOTE(Raddus @ Feb 16 2019, 12:10 PM)
Tolong beri Malaysia tumpang
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Why not...perhaps can contribute in later blocks


QUOTE(olman @ Feb 16 2019, 08:06 PM)
macam kopi O hybrid f-35, f-22, j-31 in looks dept

misils hanging outside defeats the purpose of stealth
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That should be a good configuration for asymmetric ground attacks against insurgents

For air to air configuration, missiles are recessed, so RCS will be reduced.

Initial block isn't meant to be stealthy.....just low RCS...like Typhoon and Rafale. As comparison, Flankers look like a beacon in the sky with powerful radar and big, reflective airframe


QUOTE(olman @ Feb 17 2019, 02:52 AM)
still it is relying on US engine which means sanction prone plane
indonesia should have known better

its going to take them a good 10 years before it gets inducted, while future blks is on paper
i am aware, induction of blk 1 is still long way to go, by the time it gets inducted we could be seeing 6th gen planes out among US/Russia/China
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Much lower risk of sanction today... Government and TNI have different policies compared to New Order era.

KFX is good enough for 4.5G or near 5G for later blocks, especially when armed with Meteor. Better than Su-35 IMO
Frozen_Sun
post Feb 17 2019, 07:11 PM

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QUOTE(Fat & Fluffy @ Feb 17 2019, 06:56 PM)
hmm, with funds i think better replace nuri and get the fighters up n running first..
isnt theirs inferior?

209 is kinda old right?
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Yeah....Type 209 is quite old...originally an early 70's design.

But, the Chang Bogo variant for TNI AL is at least a decent sub...equipped with modern sensor and most importantly, Blackshark torpedo.
In various exercises, South Korean Chang Bogo subs managed to slip past US Navy escorts and got within the firing range to do simulated torpedo launch at their aircraft carrier.

.
Frozen_Sun
post Feb 17 2019, 09:00 PM

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QUOTE(Mai189 @ Feb 17 2019, 08:11 PM)
Interesting points from a ex-submariner:

"One of the unfortunate reasons that SSKs have such a good reputation against SSNs is the nature of the excercises in which they are pitted against each other. In order to provide "training for all" a close encounter is forced - usually with the SSN screaming in at high speed from a distance - immediately giving the SSKs at an advantage.
Again, without going into too much detail, I have done both the afore mentioned excercise (blew), and a week-long one with a diesel in which we were just hunting in a big chunk of ocean. In the second, more realistic, excercise, we wiped the ocean floor with the diesel. And these guys were not sloutches.
Also, US SSNs have gotten a lot better at combined ops with surface and air assets. That will absolutely end an SSK right there."
http://bubbleheads.blogspot.com/2005/07/do...ize-matter.html
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Of course a SSK can be detected....if all SSNs, surfaces ships and ASW helicopters are at full alerts and blasting active sonar at specific area....

Even a SSN can't escape that....

The basic strategy of a sub is to sneak in when the enemy isn't expecting it.....also, ASW assets can't be at full alert constantly.....
Frozen_Sun
post Feb 17 2019, 10:26 PM

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QUOTE(Mai189 @ Feb 17 2019, 09:57 PM)
^ obviously. I wont comment on ASW assets not being on alert constantly; that is not professional.

My point was on SSK's reputation in maritime exercises and its utility in gauging its effectiveness.
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I don't want to say the Chang Bogo is the best SSK there is....I'm sure Type 218SG and Scorpene can approach enemy fleet very quietly as well....

Just want to emphasize that Chang Bogo has similar capability....
Frozen_Sun
post Feb 19 2019, 01:20 AM

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QUOTE(Mai189 @ Feb 18 2019, 08:25 PM)
While I respect your opinion on similar capability, I cannot agree with it in entirety. It is one thing to modernise an old sub design as what the South Koreans have done. It is quite another to get a brand new one. Similar capability does not equal better capability. 2 persons can run but one person do it better or run faster. It is unsuitable to compare modern subs such as the Scorpene, Type 218SG or even Australia's attack class to an older sub such as the Sg's Challenger class for example, or in this case the Chang Bo. In fact, it can be said that modern subs have newer capabilities..AIPs, for instance.
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Of course...I'm referring to the stealthiness....

New subs have optimized designs for seaworthiness etc

I said that the Chang Bogo variant for TNI AL is at least decent.....not excellent
Frozen_Sun
post Feb 19 2019, 07:29 PM

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No problem buy F-35....but 10 - 15 years from now...probably after block 10...when technology is mature and unit price is cheaper....
Frozen_Sun
post Feb 20 2019, 09:21 AM

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QUOTE(azriel @ Feb 20 2019, 09:16 AM)
"In response"

......confirmed.....silent arms race....

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