Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Bump Topic Topic Closed RSS Feed
124 Pages « < 77 78 79 80 81 > » Bottom

Outline · [ Standard ] · Linear+

RTS Starcraft 2, New Units with Video and Explanation.

views
     
redeye84
post May 23 2008, 09:22 PM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
177 posts

Joined: Mar 2005
QUOTE
BTW, does the writer of the article comes from SC community?
I thought showing the article might be good because its written from neutral point of view.
Of course you might not like it since it says Starcraft is more competitive by nature than Relic games. As for now the competitiveness of SC > DoW. He's just analyzing the reason from his point of view. But seriously i can't find any context in the article saying Starcraft is superior game than DoW. Which game is superior are very subjective.


Neutral POV my ass...

He keep on babling on how SC is soooo much superior than DOW/COH.. as i can point it out.

QUOTE
The first, and largely underestimated, strength of Starcraft is its visual clarity. In Starcraft, you can glance at the minimap and understand almost immediately where your forces are concentrated, or look at the screen and quickly understand the flow of the battle. In Company of Heroes, however, the visual clarity gets lost amongst all the majestic effects that make the game so beautiful.

There are easily half a dozen times in any given Company of Heroes game where you must make a quick decision, usually about retreating, amidst huge clouds of smoke and severed limbs. Looking back on the replay, you’ll often have made the wrong decision when, if the circumstances were clear, the decision would have been much easier.

It’s also rather popular to praise Company of Heroes and Dawn of War for removing the micromanagement involved in resource gathering. In Starcraft, however, one of the most interesting choices that defines the course of a game is when to expand and when not to expand, a choice that Company of Heroes and Dawn of War simply remove.

But Company of Heroes’ largest weakness is its randomness. Starcraft has very little randomness, and so the same ambush in the same place will almost always kill the same amount of units with the same amount of shots. In Company of Heroes, sometimes it takes two rockets to take out a tank, sometimes the first four miss and it gets off unscathed. Sometimes a grenade takes out an entire MG squad, sometimes it doesn’t kill anyone.
I could go on and on.. And the whole goddamm reason iam here cos of this article which simple babble how COH is less superior than SC

This post has been edited by redeye84: May 23 2008, 09:22 PM
RtP|DEV
post May 23 2008, 09:50 PM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
266 posts

Joined: Oct 2005
From: Shah Alam


Isn't what he said is true?
Visual clarity is important. Maybe not as important to players as it is to spectators. Players can adapt but spectators cannot. One of the reason Starcraft is popular is most of the thing that happened in game translate easily to spectators. Is there anything wrong with what he said?

Down of War implement an artificial system which force you to got out get requisition point. Is it not true? That is the so called map control in DoW. You think you can turtle playing Starcraft? You think in Starcraft you dont need to go out and gain map control?

When you take an expansion you need to make sure you can defend it. Taking expansions on different spots gives you pros and cons. Some got no gas, some got double gas, some got only 1500 gas, some less minerals. Distance from main must also be taken into account. Players must understand timing and what other player are doing as well. If you play Zerg you need to manage how many drones you make, you make drones means you make less army. Thats what this guy is trying to explain in paragraph 3.

Randomness kills competitive play, at least it kills spectators interest like what happen in Warcraft 3.
This player got lucky because because he got xp tomes early. My fav player should win this one, not that lucky *******. This is a genre whre ppl expect you to outperform your opponent, not outluck them. You why reaver is not in SC2? Because scarab is random. Why they throw out mothership during early stage before? Because its random.

I think he forgot to add, how many competitive maps DoW got?
Starcraft are played on more than 170 pro maps since the first Starleague. Different map = different strategy. Some strat you can do on map A cannot be applied on map B. 177 maps is a lot. They will keep releasing new maps every season. Spectators wont like it if they play on Lost Temple for 5 years.
Cheesenium
post May 23 2008, 10:02 PM

Vigilo Confido
*******
Senior Member
4,852 posts

Joined: Aug 2006
QUOTE(RtP|DEV @ May 23 2008, 09:14 PM)
Thats why i said Dawn of War is a battle simulation. Battle and War are 2 different things. Am i wrong here?
Now you start talking about realism huh. Who cares. Its gameplay that matters, put realism aside.
Who the f*** fly his barrack to enemy base just for recon? who build his supply depot on the frontline? Or how the hell mass marines can kill one behemoth class battlecruiser?

BTW, does the writer of the article comes from SC community?
I thought showing the article might be good because its written from neutral point of view.
Of course you might not like it since it says Starcraft is more competitive by nature than Relic games. As for now the competitiveness of SC > DoW. He's just analyzing the reason from his point of view. But seriously i can't find any context in the article saying Starcraft is superior game than DoW. Which game is superior are very subjective.

I remember Carmac writing an article on SK.gaming website about how Starcraft is a better spectators sport than WC3. Then ToD came in with his argument saying WC3 is a better game, while the article actually doesn't say anything about which game is better. I sense you're the same.

You look down on DotA, you look down on Korean Starcraft players. Must be some kind of person who thinks he's right. Well, i myself used to look down on DotA before i knew how they play it competitively. I used to think that Korean are too conservative, too stupid but own everyone because the play like they got no life. But things if look from different perspective can change your paradigm.

Fuh this is getting nowhere, everyone wants to prove they're right(including me tongue.gif ).
*
DoW is not a battle simulation.It's a freaking real time table top game.Thats why i was saying that both games are completely different games while the author assumes both games are the essentially same.Yes,both are RTS but they are designed differently.It's like comparing an Audi TT to a Nissan GTR.Both are sports cars but they are designed differently.

The article is not written in a neutral view.The author is biased toward SC than Relic games.Besides,it's very clear from the article that the author havent played much of CoH and DoW.CoH did have a lot of randomness during the initial release but it's mostly removed in later patches like the instant tank kill by collision.I would say that he didnt even spend an hour playing both games or even played the patched version of CoH,judging from that article.

I do agree that SC is a better game in competitive e-sport while Relic games are more suitable for LAN games with friends.Both are still the best games that PC can provide.

Still,the main reasons that i disagree with the article is because he didnt mention anything about weak DoW support that actually killed the competitive part of the community while Blizzard's strong support actually keep SC alive.Instead,he just goes on and on complaining about the randomness,visual "problems" and other issues with both games.Then,in the end, just jump to conclusion saying that SC is much superior than both games because it's a more e-sport like game.That article is pretty much an insult to both DoW and CoH community.He has completely missed the points that makes both Relic games fun and unique.DoW is a great competitive game by nature.If it has good support from the beginning,DoW will be able to compete with other competitive RTS like SC.DoWPro Mod has showed that DoW can be decently balanced and spectacular with 7 races.I rather watch a DoWPro replay than a SC replay.

I would say that he will complain about SC2's visual clarity when it release.SC2's graphics is even more of hell of a graphics mess compare to CoH and DoW.The smokes,messy fx colour will make even more messy.


Added on May 23, 2008, 10:17 pm
QUOTE(RtP|DEV @ May 23 2008, 09:50 PM)
Isn't what he said is true?
Visual clarity is important. Maybe not as important to players as it is to spectators. Players can adapt but spectators cannot. One of the reason Starcraft is popular is most of the thing that happened in game translate easily to spectators. Is there anything wrong with what he said?
*
Honestly,dont tell me spectators cant differentiate units behind some smokes effects covering some units or units hiding behind some rock.Both Relic games have a feature call unit oclusion that allows you to see the unit behind an obstacle.

It seems more like what the pros want again.

QUOTE(RtP|DEV @ May 23 2008, 09:50 PM)
Down of War implement an artificial system which force you to got out get requisition point. Is it not true? That is the so called map control in DoW. You think you can turtle playing Starcraft? You think in Starcraft you dont need to go out and gain map control?
*
Turtling still work to a certain point in SC but not in DoW,even on casual level.

Turtling kills in DoW.

QUOTE(RtP|DEV @ May 23 2008, 09:50 PM)
Randomness kills competitive play, at least it kills spectators interest like what happen in Warcraft 3.
 
*
If you say randomness kills competitive play and interest,then,why are people still watching sports matches?Any sport has loads of randomness.I can kick the ball with the same way 100 times and all of them will not end on the same point.

It's more like the Koreans want precise control over the games they play.

QUOTE(RtP|DEV @ May 23 2008, 09:50 PM)
I think he forgot to add, how many competitive maps DoW got?
Starcraft are played on more than 170 pro maps since the first Starleague. Different map = different strategy. Some strat you can do on map A cannot be applied on map B. 177 maps is a lot. They will keep releasing new maps every season. Spectators wont like it if they play on Lost Temple for 5 years.
*
The competitive side of DoW was never strong due to bad support.The devs didnt really add much maps.

Still,thats not a valid reason for CoH and DoW cant be competitive games,IMO.It still boils down to lack of support.

This post has been edited by Cheesenium: May 23 2008, 10:17 PM
radkliler
post May 23 2008, 10:31 PM

WUBWUBWUB
*****
Senior Member
985 posts

Joined: Oct 2006
From: Limbo


Okay guise....bring your DoW superior than SC2 or vice verse topic to some other topic or b**** to each other on the phone....we like to keep things posted on SC2 developments on not which game is far superior
Cheesenium
post May 23 2008, 11:45 PM

Vigilo Confido
*******
Senior Member
4,852 posts

Joined: Aug 2006
QUOTE(radkliler @ May 23 2008, 10:31 PM)
Okay guise....bring your DoW superior than SC2 or vice verse topic to some other topic or b**** to each other on the phone....we like to keep things posted on SC2 developments on not which game is far superior
*
There is nothing interesting till now for SC2.

It's just the same.Blizzard is busy making the game.
redeye84
post May 24 2008, 12:05 AM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
177 posts

Joined: Mar 2005
Well blizzcon 2008 will be in oct so i presume SC2 will be announce the release??
Cheesenium
post May 24 2008, 12:10 AM

Vigilo Confido
*******
Senior Member
4,852 posts

Joined: Aug 2006
QUOTE(redeye84 @ May 24 2008, 12:05 AM)
Well blizzcon 2008 will be in oct so i presume SC2 will be announce the release??
*
Dunno,but doubt that SC2 will release this year.The game is still in alpha and i doubt that they have done much on the campaign with these balance drastic changes.
Soul-X
post May 24 2008, 01:42 AM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
183 posts

Joined: Apr 2007
From: I live in your dreams
i only hope sc2 will be fun thats all...

i dont mind much if it doesnt change alot... if its fun and balanced, den its a good game...
sam240
post May 27 2008, 12:03 AM

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
3,657 posts

Joined: Jan 2003


is this SC2 really will release on this coming Oct?..... wonder can play it asap.... smile.gif
fujkenasai
post May 27 2008, 01:15 PM

Regular
******
Senior Member
1,137 posts

Joined: Mar 2006
QUOTE(redeye84 @ May 24 2008, 12:05 AM)
Well blizzcon 2008 will be in oct so i presume SC2 will be announce the release??
*
The can announce all they want but whether if they can deliver or not that is another question.
fujkenasai
post May 27 2008, 01:23 PM

Regular
******
Senior Member
1,137 posts

Joined: Mar 2006
QUOTE(radkliler @ May 23 2008, 10:31 PM)
Okay guise....bring your DoW superior than SC2 or vice verse topic to some other topic or b**** to each other on the phone....we like to keep things posted on SC2 developments on not which game is far superior
*
One thing is for sure SC ripped the Idea off DoW, Zergs = tyranids terran = Holly Terra
Marines = Space marines (look at the bulkness)
user posted imageuser posted image
[ - i l l u s i o n s - ]
post May 27 2008, 01:29 PM

Photography Addict
*****
Senior Member
744 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From: Brisbane, Australia



I thought the marines design was already there long before DoW?
[gs]JackMin
post May 27 2008, 01:56 PM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
275 posts

Joined: Sep 2006
no, b4 DOW or SC there is alrdi a game call space hulk which is based on warhammer series. definately one of the best game ive played during that time....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Hulk_(computer_game)

anyone stil remember?
redeye84
post May 27 2008, 04:08 PM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
177 posts

Joined: Mar 2005
Which is all based on the Warhammer 40K universe.
fujkenasai
post May 27 2008, 04:27 PM

Regular
******
Senior Member
1,137 posts

Joined: Mar 2006
QUOTE([ - i l l u s i o n s - ] @ May 27 2008, 01:29 PM)
I thought the marines design was already there long before DoW?
*
But Warhammer 40k universe has existed long before Starcraft, as in the Warhammer40k table top and starcraft borrowed the idea from there.
Cheesenium
post May 27 2008, 04:27 PM

Vigilo Confido
*******
Senior Member
4,852 posts

Joined: Aug 2006
Space Hulk,DoW are all based on the Warhammer 40k Universe by Gamesworkshop.

Developers of DoW and Space Hulk got the license from GW to make the games.

It's true that SC rip W40k off but Blizzard has changed the art direction again.Protoss no longer look like a Tau ripoff.They have a fantasy look now rather than Tau's anime look.

This post has been edited by Cheesenium: May 27 2008, 04:28 PM
fujkenasai
post May 28 2008, 10:17 AM

Regular
******
Senior Member
1,137 posts

Joined: Mar 2006
QUOTE(Cheesenium @ May 27 2008, 04:27 PM)
Space Hulk,DoW are all based on the Warhammer 40k Universe by Gamesworkshop.

Developers of DoW and Space Hulk got the license from GW to make the games.

It's true that SC rip W40k off but Blizzard has changed the art direction again.Protoss no longer look like a Tau ripoff.They have a fantasy look now rather than Tau's anime look.
*
Still the zergs and the marines even the name terran sounds like holly terra.
RtP|DEV
post May 28 2008, 10:58 AM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
266 posts

Joined: Oct 2005
From: Shah Alam


Oh please. Terra Mater is a 'latin' word for Mother Earth. The greek one are called Gaia.
Thats why you see they refer earth as Terra and Gaia in many fictions.
Terran is another word for earthling.

Lead Writer for Starcraft 2.
Andy Chambers.

Andy Chambers is an author and game designer, best known for his work for Games Workshop. He worked extensively on various Warhammer 40,000 rulebooks and sourcebooks, and also authored at least one fiction novel set in the same universe.

In 2003 Chambers joined Mongoose Publishing as the lead designer of the company's development team for the Starship Troopers tabletop miniatures game.

Chambers is currently the Creative Director of Blizzard Entertainment, working on Starcraft II.

This post has been edited by RtP|DEV: May 28 2008, 11:01 AM
Cheesenium
post May 28 2008, 12:11 PM

Vigilo Confido
*******
Senior Member
4,852 posts

Joined: Aug 2006
Yeah,Andy Chambers is also the guy who screws WA to a spam fest without hard counter.

Thanks to him we have a semi hard counter crap in DoW now.

I just hope that he dont screw SC2 like he did with WA.

This post has been edited by Cheesenium: May 28 2008, 12:13 PM
fujkenasai
post May 28 2008, 12:28 PM

Regular
******
Senior Member
1,137 posts

Joined: Mar 2006
QUOTE(RtP|DEV @ May 28 2008, 10:58 AM)
Oh please. Terra Mater is a 'latin' word for Mother Earth. The greek one are called Gaia.
Thats why you see they refer earth as Terra and Gaia in many fictions.
Terran is another word for earthling.

Lead Writer for Starcraft 2.
Andy Chambers.

Andy Chambers is an author and game designer, best known for his work for Games Workshop. He worked extensively on various Warhammer 40,000 rulebooks and sourcebooks, and also authored at least one fiction novel set in the same universe.

In 2003 Chambers joined Mongoose Publishing as the lead designer of the company's development team for the Starship Troopers tabletop miniatures game.

Chambers is currently the Creative Director of Blizzard Entertainment, working on Starcraft II.
*
Still that do not deny the idea that starcraft borrowed the Idea of zerg from the tyranids and marine from space marine.

Since SC was in 98 and he only joined Blizzard recently.

124 Pages « < 77 78 79 80 81 > » Top
Topic ClosedOptions
 

Change to:
| Lo-Fi Version
0.0332sec    0.68    6 queries    GZIP Disabled
Time is now: 12th December 2025 - 03:13 PM