There has been a lot of focus on issues that are cropping out at the Pasar Malam thread and I personally think its a good topic for discussion. Unfortunately, the Pasar Malam thread does not facilitate for discussions as PJ or Arj will be clearing the thread from time to time.

Some of the points that have been established so far:

1. If the seller and buyer has agreed on a price, then the deal should go through, regardless if someone offered higher or not. The pasar malam is not an auction and should rightfully remain so.

2. Vice versa to the buyer, if you found a cheaper deal after agreeing to a higher priced deal, then you also shouldn't be cancelling the deal or even not showing up for a COD.

Pls do not flame each other as this is just an exchange of opinions. Some of you might think that Pasar Malam is a trading ground with no set rules and some of you might think it is an auction house. It will be good to hear your point of views.

This post has been edited by zio: May 11 2007, 10:05 AM

nicely said....

Zio, glad to c that this thread is finally created here...its a current talk of the town...which is more popular than the 3 rod issue....sometimes, i just dont understand them...ffk just for the price difference of RM10-30..such an embarassment to this community...

i agree that that should have been a sets of rules applied for ppl who wants to trade to protect the buyers..

so far for those who (u know who u are) has trade with me thanks alot..
very satisfied so far..

You see, the big problem about ethics is that ( as all the pirates from Pirates of the Carribean would say) it's more of just a "guideline"......its not a law where when not followed, u get stars like in GTA.
Hence, people would rather just follow the sound of cash registers "Ka-Ching!!"
After all, most of us here are just forum friends....not the people that u hang out with 24/7, so there isn't really any loyalty especially when it comes to monetary issues.
Heck even families will fight over money, what more forumers who are just playing online with other forumers?

maybe we need to implement what Microsoft did with the Reputation on our gamertags....

I understand how sometimes, circumstances require some of us to break a deal to sell the item for a higher price, HOWEVER, we should always inform the previous buyer, appologise and also give him/her sufficient time to reconsider his/her price and not FFK outright.

just my 3 cents

This post has been edited by MightySmiter: May 11 2007, 10:10 AM

Put up a sticky, maybe this thread, those who are really BAD at deals, put the names up here.
FFK more than 3 times, qualify into our Hall of Fame... be sure to give them an "achievement unlocked! - I SUCKED AT 3 DEALS OR MORE" msg...

Let's crucify them...

This post has been edited by ferricide: May 11 2007, 10:13 AM

I agree, when a deal has been made, both seller and the buyer must honor the deal.

I've faced this situation before when I'm selling my games before, I've made a deal with someone, and then someone else offered me a higher price than the buyer I've made the deal before. I politely tell them that I've made a deal with someone and will notify them in case the deal didn't go through.

I know that I can gain extra few bucks by selling the game to the highest bidder, but at the risk of ruining my reputation and losing some of my friends? Not worth it.

IMHO, if any side want to cancel the deal after the deal has been made, at least be a man and tell the other party that you're no longer interested in the deal and make sure that the other party understands and not holding any grudge against you.

This post has been edited by mzaidi: May 11 2007, 10:18 AM

true, once you and your buyer/seller already agreed on the deal... by hook or crook must close the deal lah. dont always think of $$$/profit because you can make more $$$/profit out there.

even if you make extra rm10-30 by selling to another person or saving around rm10-30 by buying fromh another forumer you still wont be as rich as lim goh tong lah!

This post has been edited by judge-the: May 11 2007, 10:18 AM

Judge: My case how ?? hahahaha...

I totally agree to this thread. As there are some members that break any deal at their whim. And we know whom this fella is after setting up multiple same deals and confirmed price, venue and time. Then FFK...

Definitely good thread. It's true lah - all we have are guidelines, and there's no way we can enforce penalties here in the forum. I strongly agree with the idea of listing parties who have ffked 3 times or more.

What it comes down to is common sense and respect - if you're gonna wrangle about RM 10 - 20 it won't make the buyer any poorer NOR the seller any richer.

you and me where got case lah... later ppl misunderstood that i ffk you or cancel our deal then gone lah my reputation

when you are free, just return back the fifa world cup to bro redbull at cinelesiure. furthermore i didnt collect any money from you also lah... where got seller send games to buyer before collecting money in the first place lah... see i am very nice to you ler gave you the game first before collecting payment

This post has been edited by judge-the: May 11 2007, 10:45 AM

Who dares offend the Judge la..kena head shot for sure... hehehehe

on a side note.. meeting redbull later at Cineleisure, he says he will be meeting you tomorrow. = )))))

I've never ever COD before but has anyone like met up and after taking a look at the package/DVD decide its in "bad-shape"?

Then do you still complete the trade out of courtesy or be frank and say that the game package/DVD is not up to expectations?

Do traders here at LYN show snap shots of their game package and disc before actually meeting?

Just wondering, new here!

I believe if the condition is not satisfactory then it is a valid reason to cancel the trade.

However, how bad is bad?

looks like got some fella kantoi redy.. own up man...dont for rm10-20, ur rep go down the drain...
dont ur nick pulak ppl advertise in their signatures..

Most ppl I have COD with have given me perfect scratchfree discs. If it's something you are gonna sell later, and it's a piece of plastic selling for rm160 in shops, I'll pretty much be damn sure to carefully keep it pristine.

But if there's any significant flaws, then it must be stated in the Pasar Malam thread lah.

Also, it seems that there's a pattern emerging:

Relatively old games, like over 3 months old go for about rm80, and ancient ones for rm60. If it's less than three months, it's usually about rm120. LE/CE has a rm20 premium. So it's when people decide to asak a bit more, or a bit less, than this, problems arise...

But who's to stop ppl from charging whatever... It's an unfortunate thing that sometimes rm10 is worth more than reputation, or honor, or trust.

if u look around the garage sale, got the picture of the person who conned them or ffk them in their sig..

talk about being crucified la. lol

there is no point in taking pictures of the box or the dvd to sell the item.
all cds/dvds look the same upside down
boxes are hard to see via picture, besides, its just a boxed and if you're buying second hand... scratches here and there should be assumed already. anything better is considered bonus loh

Btw, i've nvr really see any box or discs that is in a 'bad' condition in the pasar malam thread.
Everyone must've really really sayang their discs.

This post has been edited by pmsoo: May 11 2007, 12:12 PM

How bad is subjective to each individual i guess. Some ppl may be very particular about condition of what he is going to buy. ie. if the plastic cover case is scratched, if disc scratched even 1mm or for those really fussy ppl if the game guide has dog-ears!

But Roland has a point hahaha... all my games damn careful also...hope everyone takes care of it well too.

For all this condition-of-game talk...besides sellers informing noticeable flaws to their game they should also be showing shots of their game cover/disc before even meeting to avoid dissapointments. Shdnt be difficult as almost everyone has a digital cam if not a camera phone these days!

I've always been a little sceptical about meeting ppl to trade...might feel a lil more confident now that ethics is being talked about more...

anyway...just my 2 cents

if we take pics of every game that we wanna sell,
zio will kill us all. lol

As long as you don't include it in the Pasar Malam thread.

Just PM the pics when you are dealing with the buyer/seller. No need to post it up permanently.

Using a Camera Phone to shoot pics really isnt practical. Even our 2MP cams cannot capture so much detail sometimes.

So just give an honest answer abt your disc and it shud be fine. Better to come out and see it for yourself. All the words wont paint a perfect picture.

But the main reason for this thread is to illustrate more on the no-show and irresponsible attitude of the buyer/sellers.

The product itself is dead thing, easy to manage. People are live creatures, so harder to predict!

FKK and tidak apa attitudes only reflects on your person in how you look at things in life.

EDIT: Hate to highlight this, but I must. I was made to wait for more than 2 hours for Siebel when I dealt with him last time. And all the while I was the one who has to call up and ask "Where are you?". If you are gonna be late, also do inform the other party. I had to endure "15min more" replies more than a couple of times and even got some lame excuse at the end.

Hate to say this, but dealing with kiddies really made me paranoid these days. I know not all are like this, but after going thru an episode like this. I have to be cautious.

In this case, dun hate the game, hate the player.

This post has been edited by ferricide: May 11 2007, 01:00 PM

i agree. the most important thing if want to sell is be honest about the game. if got scratched, mention that when put WTS, so that the buyer won't feel cheated after receive the disc.

Lots of fair comments!

u are too kind. FFK one time is enough to be put in the hall of shame

someone is so screwed here eh..

MOST of the COD cases go through with no issues and both parties happy.

It's the one or two few cases every month that really messes things up. If a guy FFK you and goes and sells/buys from somewhere else, chances are it'll happen again.

It's a person to person interaction. Trust is essential for reputation to remain intact. The moment your rep is gone, think how hard it'll be to recover it.

I didn't know Siebel was already one of the notorious ones. I was indeed very disappointed because I thought we had a deal and then we even agreed on time and place to meet. Then next thing a PM to say deal is off because someone wanted to buy it urgently and was willing to pay a higher price.

I guess I was a bit luckier than you not having wasted 2 hours of my time with people like this!

Let's start the Hall of Fame in the interest of newcomers who will be disappointed if they don't know that there are people like this and therefore needs to be avoided.

My 2 Cents.

Should we really start a hall of fame? Do we really want to go down this path? Just a question as most of us in the LYN 360 Community knows each other pretty well.

If the consensus is yes, and I appreaciate it if PJ, arj and other veterans chip in their opinion as they have been around here longer than most of us.

putting ppl's name on hall of fame is pretty bad imho as it kind build a bad reputation for some forumer and thus his chances of sales in pasar malam thread surely would be affected.

IMHO put a rating system of some sort so ppl can rate each other~

A rating system is over kill for these kinda small matter. The game prolly is only RM50-RM100+ and we shoot so much already. We just want the community here to know who THEY are.

There's really only 200+ MAXIMUM of us active LYN members doing trading... so just a community message will be fine. They dun even amount to more than 5% of us here.

Dun think we shud ban a 15yr kid just for being the way he is? Maybe he isnt mature enuff to know all this. But that is why I just keep it silent and hope he learns from it.

But it re-surfaced again with horray this time. So I decided not to hold my peace anymore.

Let's only ban those HARDCORE Kings of FFK. But so far the leading candidate list for this is only Hornybear and Siebel. 2x each.

Just put a notice on top of the PasarMalam thread will do. Put down GT and also what was the offense, better include deal with who, time and date. This is for those EXTREME ppl (3 times and above)

My 0.02 cents.

This post has been edited by ferricide: May 11 2007, 03:11 PM

Of course..he wanted To COD nearer to me and giving higher price..ofcourse ill sell to him..and we juz only set the time and place and around an hour or plus ive cancel it..not like 5min to dateline ive cancel...i have the choice to cancel it u know..

@ ferricide ....Sry for that..My mom has to drive me around and that was my 1st time though...

This post has been edited by ImSIEBEL: May 11 2007, 03:16 PM

Our community is fairly big, but not as big.

I do not think the Hall of Fame is needed...yet. So far, how many FFK cases were there?

Creating the Hall of Fame might serve as a double-edge razor towards the community, either it benefits us or it compromise the harmony of our friendly little 360 neighborhoods. We are ethic gamers wei~

Pasar Malam Thread was created so the community have alternative to affordable Original games, that's our priority. We do not have any rules & regulation but that doesn't mean anyone should take advantage of this.

So IMO, if there were any dispute (like now...but it rarely happens) maybe we can have our own supreme court in the Pasar Malam Thread while Zio act as the judge

If deem necessary, Zio will insert another post under the Pasar Malam thread with a mini-Hall of Fame, if the "defendant" is proven "guilty", judge-Zio (not judge-the ) will be handing out warning/saman and stuff so people can take reference but try do it mild, not so spicy (extreme). The "plaintiff" should take note not to accuse anyone either or he will be charge of defamation.
eg. Trader A - Yellow Card. Red Card.
Otherwise, just post a warning level beside the Trader Profile.

We are all here for some games anyway...this isn't a real War...Trading Zone/Garage Sales where people fight in the ring



*BTW, need to take the chances to thanks Zio for all the hardwork!!! Keep it up! It will not be forgotten~~

This post has been edited by PrivateJohn: May 11 2007, 03:18 PM

Tats like more work for me. I dont like you anymore ferricide

Aiya... just add in more code only la... your the JUDGE now...bahhahahha

So far i've never experienced any problem in dealing with fellow lyn, all went smoothly but i do want to apologize to XP750 because i ask him to reserve the headset but i forgot all about it until he PM me about it (i did bought the headset from him in the end). Sorry about that boss

Sometimes people who already agreed to a deal, and then at the end ffk & no reply. At least say that u don't want the game already larr!! Just a simple reply will do, at least inform the other party so that he can sell the game to other people. Please be a responsible buyer/seller.

No need hall of fame la. Normally dealing with the regulars here ain't a problem. It's those who u don't see them posting in the forum that will give potential issues.

Basically, there are only two cases which I know of. And one of them already posted here with his reasons.

Basically, he informed the first seller way earlier that he is cancelling the deal because he got a better deal. Not entirely a pleasant thing but try to keep this to a one-time only occasion. We are all very forgiving people right?

As for you being late, cant help you there although I know you live like far away. In Neverland. Maybe you should inform your seller of a more reasonable time to meet in the future.

The other case involves a certain guy named hornybear. And I believe a few people has suffered a failed deal with him. I have no further details on that.

...then i guess we should put this up
-quote scpt

That way people will know...




Joking aside (although it isn't funny), i think we need some sort of brief guideline, or you can say more of a - Reminder to people.

Zio, you take the lead la.

@Siebel,

If your gonna be LATE, pls let us know. Be responsible with your actions.

Its not like we are gonna hunt you down or anything. Please stick to the time you have agreed upon. Also do realize I do have other things to do with my time.

Just be honest and you can get away with most things. WE are actually very forgiving if you know how to handle the situation.

As for letting go of your deal with horray, can't comment much, but just make sure you honour whatever you deals made. Its a trait that will help you in life further down the road.

Peace.

I guess it is time to stick up some guidelines to follow for Pasar Malam. Will draft something out soon.

might be offensive even if it's a joke

This post has been edited by munky: May 11 2007, 03:38 PM

Munky wanna be the judge jury and executioner

So i guess that's it.

Lesson of the day
===========
-Be a responsible buyer/seller.
-Keep track of the buyer/seller profile for safe and smooth transaction.
-Don't waste people time. Either you want to buy/sell or you don't. If want to terminate the trade, leave a notice in advance with reason.

As usual when we wana get things cheap there are always alot of trouble & obstacle. We just goto deal with it. It's still a relief that we do not have any fraud cases similiar to ebay,amazon...yet.
(if want clean & fast transaction, think Gamers Hideout!! (sponsored link)

Judge Zio, once you conclude the case i will bring down this thread all together. Don't want people to keep fighting.

Will inform you when that happens. Probably after the guidelines have been finalised by committe.

I think Siebel's case is sort of done. We should all let it rest now.

walauleh i got overthrown already... no more judge, jury and executioner for me

Its okla, u r still the SUPREME COURT judge. This kacang putih matters u cannot waste time. You bring your form of justice to our screens la... haha

Er... abt hornybear... yeah... he ffk me on ICON. Summore i gotta call him to ask what happened.

so far i remember its 2 of em ferricide i remember we were suposed to
meet at bangsar and he mesg me and says push date cse he cant make it for that day...so i was pissed n i got another bro to deliver it straight to my office..as for the n3 from edthrax, i was gona get it form him for rm70 but he was gona deliver it sometime soon but then another bro which iwas buying bullet witch from had it for rm80 but could deliver it straight wit his despatch the next day..so i got it from the same guy ... i was not sure who the 3rd one was..but i had two felows who confirmed to meet me in bangsar but las minit postponed to next day..so i told em i wont continue the deal the next day as the same way the didnt meet me as per proposed date. i dont think i left anyone hanging in bangsar...waiting for me there rite..everyone whom i canceld got the mesg i sent

i thought horny bear had some really good prices...but i dint know he ffked so many times..

@hornybear,

Trade day itself ... on 24/4/07...

EDIT - 18:15 24/4/07 - u msged me "R we on for the trade 2nite?" initiative from u
EDIT - 18:16 24/4/07, i msged u - "Bro, better if we do it tmrw. Same time + place. I am not feeling well" - i was just out from the clinic, going to msg u abt the postponement.

Next day... on 25/4/07

17:59, 25/4/07, i msged u - "Are we still on at McD 7:30 b'sar" - cuz i was tied up another place yesterday
18:19, 25/4/07, u msg me - "cant" - no further explanation. i cant read ur mind here

Next day ... on 26/4/07

16:25, 26/4/07, i msged u -" Hi HB, is the ICON deal still on?" - hope to still sell to u
16:27, 26/4/07, u msged me - "Gotta pull out. Got anymore games?" - this is where u dropped the deal just like that.
16:28, 26/4/07 i msged u - " Nope. Thanks anyway"

Wow... pls let me know in advance if u wan out. Dun let me chase you all the time. After you just drop me, i also no more mood to sell u anything.

This post has been edited by ferricide: May 11 2007, 05:41 PM

whats done is done.... for me case closed.

Same here. Let's hope to avoid such unsavory incidents in the future.

Agreeing to a COD is a deal. It's set in stone. It's an agreement to proceed with a transaction based on trust.

Cancelling it to sell to someone closer and for a higher price may be your choice, but it does not reflect well you. Ethically, it isn't right.

What happened to me:

I set up a COD with thomassux for RM100 in the Curve on a Sunday. I had to rush out, and sent a msg via LYN as I didn't have his phone number. I msgd that I would meet him at GH at 6pm.

At 5:45pm I was there, in GH, talking to Djinn and all. I had missed ferricide too, cos we were also meant to COD, but I managed to contact him and that was taken care of later. GH didn't have thomassux's contact, and by 6:!5 I had to leave, cos my gf needed me to help her in the shop. I got a call a bit later from thomassux, but by that time I had left, and I told him we'll reschedule.

The next day, he posts the game in Pasar Malam at a higher price, without informing me.

I msg him and ask what's up.

He says the game is his friend's, and he was doing what his friend asked. He then says "Still reserved 4 xxxxxxx... 4 RM120...but if u willin 2 offer more..I can sell 2 u!! ".

You can sell for a "friend", yes, but "his" actions determine your reputation. So after that I said that this shows the kind of person he was, and left it at that. No more trust, and therefore no more reputation.

Achievement Unlocked for those irresponsible sellers and buyers....

This post has been edited by silencer: May 12 2007, 04:15 AM

well at least we know who to deal with care. Better to voice out than let other members kena the same thing right..

First of all, in your case i have 2 dealers ready to deal with. One is you which is the earlier one, and was supposed to meet at 6PM+. That was the message i received. I called you at 6.05PM and you said you are going off. Fine. You said you will reschedule. If you have predetermined a time and you cant make it, there is no OFFER left. You have just change one of the rules of the contract predetermined.

What alternative choice do i have? I can sell it to the 2nd dealer which is at a higher price and the sales can proceed much earlier than your next "reschedule". Talking bout reputation.. i dont give a damn about your reputaion. You said one, and then you said two.. should i just cope with it? I already told the 2nd dealer, if the 1st deal doesnt go through, the game goes to you. From my perspective, the 1st deal with you was already over.

Oh btw, i have COD tons of time which went well and successful. I think 1 of them is bro Zio.. but then in your case, should i say you ffk in the last minute. A call from your gf? It have no connection to me, a deal is a deal, you cant satisfy it, be gone.

This post has been edited by vivaldi: May 13 2007, 02:04 PM

Lol, I ffk you? Considering I was in the place I said I'd be, at the time I said I'd be there, it kinda puts a hole into that, no? I set the time, 6pm. I made it there on time. You didn't.

You had my contact number, I didn't have yours. Your call came in at 6:25, when I was well out of Cineleisure and in TTDI already. Your call could have come before the appointment time, but it came at 6:25. I had left GH at 6:15, having gotten there early, and spent half an hour there waiting and talking to Djinn and Dracerys. I called the number you called from the next day to set up another COD, but your father picked up and said you were out, and I left a msg with him.

Ffk is one matter, and it's not really that much of a bother.

What is a bother is logging on and finding out that you relisted the game without informing me, and found another buyer, without informing me. When I asked, you said:

"Still reserved 4 xxxxxxx... 4 RM120...but if u willin 2 offer more..I can sell 2 u!! "

Where is the ethics in that? We had agreed on a price, and you have found someone higher, and used that price to squeeze a price much higher than the agreed price. For all I know it could've been a scam. Whatever, it just reeks of dishonesty.

Well no need to argue...

As most of us here can't be determine about the User status here...
coz our post here is not counted in the counter which make us to know ur reputation in LYN...

So if you set a time then please do inform others...

I wanna say sorry to Crimson Viper here...
as i didn't bank in for him for a week...
As public bank here is not located near my place here...
I requested my fren to bank in for me...

CV, Please check ur account... not yet pls tell me... i'll screw that guy....
he promise me to help me by the weekend...
SORRY FOR THE DELAY...


Ferricide,
Today or tomolo ok... i'll give you the $$$

This post has been edited by michael9413: May 14 2007, 11:18 AM

Guidelines posted.

I will be closing this thread now. Most of the deals that have gone bad, have gone bad and it is the past.