i wouldn't mind with some armored brahmin. sure beats walking..

I am not using vista and that is why I am planning to purchase a new rig, Dell models are just so "uncustomizable" in my opinion. I'll take your advice and go for 4 GB for my next pc though  . Talking about storylines, the GTA series have never fail to impress me (Fallout 3's storyline was just WAY too sterile in my opinion  and the weak voice acting just didn't help) , I guess game developers never seem to put much of a focus on a good storyline and good dialogue. Go for bioshock if you haven't though, it has pretty decent storyline and would run on the highest settings pretty well on almost any "gaming pc".

it does looks like they hired real human to create Megaton section .. after that they lack budget and continue with monkeys

how to check karma ? lulz

Or let that pladdin to die. I forgot her name , you have an option or you coud enter the wrong pin number and blow up everything instead

The thing is that the whole thing changes , dialogue option changes

If you have really bad karma , you can enter Paradise Falls without doing that mission at all

an attempt by modder to make Fallout 3 more Fallout-y

owh.. then i hv to explore all side quest before completing my main quest.. and wander as many place as i could =)

That guy's a freaking idiot. If you go look at the original Fallout 3 review for Crispy Gamer, you'll see that Tom Chick gave it extremely high marks. The guy who wrote this new article obviously has no background in western RPGs at all. He got confused about whether or not to carry Ant Meat around for God's sake. And he compared Fallout 3 to Dragon Quest. His boss apparently also thought that the game would be like Halo.

As I mentioned on QT3, if anything screams console gamer doesn't get hardcore, open-world RPG more than this article, I'd like to see it.

hmm if a game is no fun to you then its just dont play it, simple yes? You can choose not to openly admit it but ppl shouldnt "reject" you if you dont like the game. Gaming preference is subjective isnt it? You dont have to follow the crowd... just like how i refuse to go on dota marathon with my friends.

i dont have a problem with a game thats about exploring, i do admit that im an old shool rpg lover but that i think should not drop me any credit. i didnt read your last post as i dont often this thread often but i went through it again, im a fallout 1,2 fan that really really loved killing people for no reason apart from getting their guns and melting the first citizen in vault city cause she rubbed me the wrong way.

you speak exploration and yes i do think thats the core of beths works, but in a sense of that i think beth did forget gameplay and so on, and their work has been horridly sloppy. first theres the issue of the very easily abused level up system, ok i want to level up a character whats the best way? stack some coins on "c" and leave it while i cook tonights dinner. i used to play as a mage/thief in obivilion and i tell you leveling up was as boring as watching paint dry cause basically you really had to just leave your character doing one repetitive task all the time. and even then the thief (agility/speed) classes in obivilion and elder scrolls are horribly underpowered that in the late game it becomes comical.

also beth has a habit of making very horrid horrid quests, really horrid and unimaginative. like 70% of the time in morrowind your task was to get A to B and thats all. in Obivilion it was get A to B and close the gate with only the thief and brotherhood quests being somewhat interesting to boot.

story? its like an fps

but naturally youd come to the argument that it aint their strong point and theirs is to explore. but that would baffle people as in why they'd want to make fallout?? a very much old school rpg? its like making the well reknown quake series as a realistic shooter, its just wtf?

regardless of that and despite their strength in exploring, their games lack purpose in exploring. i had to dl a mod that overhauls the whole system in obivlion cause basically the game makes everyone the same in level. so much for getting umbra to chase me to the city only for everyone else to have that similar weapon the next time i go dungeon hunting. it lacks that sole purpose of exploring and getting the best and rarest armour and being able to pwn.

and in their previous title morrowind exploring was soooooooooooo hard to get into cause it was sooooooooo hard to get from point A to point B and that in both games we are only rewarded with similar dungeons with that huge statue somewhere in it. ok they have wonderful scenery but after running past miles of moutains and grasslands with no motive it really seem pointless to some extent

i dont mind exploring really, actually i loved dungeon crawling in BG and i did a lot of it in my heavily modded obivilion. but in a sense with beths work, after the 20th dungeon things look repetittive and even before i could get to the best bits (like getting azura's star for example) i lack motivation to play it anymore.

anyhoot its off topic d lol

Man, I really don't want to get into a flame fest with Fallout 3 detractors, especially since I directed my comments not at you or anyone else on LYN but specifically at the author of that one article about the game on Crispy Gamer. But since you started this fight, let me just make the following points as calmly as I can and leave quietly:

1) You didn't like Fallout 3. That's fine and you've made your point often enough. You're still wrong to have pirated it though.

And I'm proud of it. At least I paid for games that are crafted with care, not like this retarded shitpile whose entire existence is just to milk the Fallout franchise dry.

2) I have indeed played Arcanum, Fallout 2 (never played the first one) and Ultima 7 (and also 4, 5, 6 and Serpent Isle). Not that it has anything to do with the discussion, but I've also played Vampire: Bloodlines (I actually own the pencil-and-paper versions of most of the White Wolf RPGs, before they rebooted the WoD), just about all of the Infinity Engine games (including Planescape Torment), all of the Bioware / Obsidian RPGs since KOTOR (including Jade Empire),  all of the Elder Scrolls games since Daggerfall (yes, even the crappy Battlespire) and a few of the RPGs by New World Computing (Might and Magic series, and Planet's Edge, one my favourite RPGs ever).

Good. And I assume you would understand what RPG means, and how Fallout 3 utterly fails in that.

3) Yes, Fallout 3 is different from Arcanum, Fallout 2 and Ultima 7. I would agree that the writing in Fallout 3 is markedly inferior to all three of those games. I'm not sure what you mean about skill checks (and after all the above-mentioned Planet's Edge had no skill checks or even statistics at all). The main quest in Fallout 3 is indeed pretty crappy, but that's par for the course for the Elder Scrolls games. The good side about this is that it makes the player feel less guilty about ignoring the main quest entirely. (I'd still recommend playing until the Citadel opens up and the Enclave shows up for extra fun and games though.) If you'd bought the original game, you'd know that the manual specifically says that you're free to go looking for your dad or just ignore him entirely.

On par with elder scroll series? It all went downhill for TES when Todd Howard came and made Morrowind. And I don't need to buy the original game to know I can ignore the main quest. But ignoring it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Fallout series were known for choice & consequences. In the ending you get a recap of what happened to each town IN FULL VOICE-OVER AUDIO. What do you get in FO3? A slideshow. How is this an improvement at all that one would expect from a sequel?

4) The quality of the side quests in Fallout 3 vary by quite a bit. Some are predictable and lame (Blood Ties). Some are delightfully subversive (Tenpenny Towers). Some are out-and-out combat scenarios (Reilly's Rangers) and some are shout-outs to science-fiction that are quite enjoyable to fans of the genre (Those! / The Replicated Man / The Superhuman Gambit). It's worth noting that the list of marked quests seems rather short until you realize that there are far more unmarked quests that you can find if you pay attention. Some of them are pretty humorous (Grady's Package / Gallows Humor / Worst.Doctor.Ever). Some trigger some cool scripted events (A Nice Day for a Right Wedding). Some are available only through random encounters (John's Treasure Box).

Tenpenny towers seem brilliant at first glance, but if you think about it, it all breaks apart. Why do I get good karma when I let a maniacal murderer into the tower and why do I get bad karma when I killed him after he massacred the entire tower after I got him in the diplomatic way? Doesn't make sense. The replicated man is better, and is one of the rare quests that doesn't break down. Superhuman Gambit and Those! are just plain lame. Couldn't be bothered to save that kid and there's no consequences to saving him either. The rest is just... sad. I would say the main problem in most quests are the writing. To call it bad is an understatement. It is downright retarded. Feels like I'm helping a bunch of autistic morons everytime I get a quest from any of them.

5) As for combat, it depends on how much you use VATS. You'd have to admit that using it creates some nice cinematics, but I feel that using it too much feels like exploiting. If you don't use VATS much, it plays more like a regular FPS, though a somewhat clunky one. It's still plenty of fun though, since you can do things like shooting a grenade right out of someone's hand, lay traps for enemies with mines, and sneak up on people like a ninja.

Which unfortunately is ten steps back from the original Fallout's AP turn-based AP system. Well at least I don't have Fawkes minigunning me in the back so I'll give that to Beth for making an 'improvement'.

6) Now, with all of the above, it may sound like Fallout 3 is a mediocre game. It might still be enjoyable but it would be far from great. What does make it great is one simple thing: this is an RPG made for explorers. Forget questing. Forget storylines. Forget dialogue. Forget characters. Fallout 3 is all about playing the part of an archaeologist sifting through the ruins of a broken civilization. You're even awarded exploration xp and there's a way to exchange your map information for cash in the game, for God's sake. Your compass helps point you to new locations you've never been to yet. The player character in Fallout 1 was known as the Vault Dweller remember and in Fallout 2 as the Chosen One. What is your moniker for Fallout 3? That's right: the Lone Wanderer.

"Forget questing. Forget storylines. Forget dialogue. Forget characters." Congratulations my friend, you just defined exactly what an RPG isn't. Fallout 3 is a hiking scenic game with guns. Now I get it.

Did you think that playing through the main quest meant that you'd finished the game? Think again. If you think the quality of the writing is bad, have you read through the journal of the nurse in Germantown as her patients and eventually she herself succumbed to radiation sickness? If you think the game is lame, have you visited the Dunwich Building and listened to the recordings of a man slowly being driven insane? If you think that the game isn't funny, have you read through the R&D and Marketing notes for Nuka-Cola Quantum at the factory?

Have you talked to the people in the original Fallout? That is what I call funny.

The craft and attention to detail everywhere is ridiculous. Go into the broken ruins of someone's house and notice the two corpses intertwined with each other with clothes strewn all around the room and drugs on the bed-stand. Did they decide to give themselves a lethal dose of drugs and have sex one last time rather than face the apocalypse? Who knows? There's no quest associated with the room. No NPCs to give any exposition. Just a quiet and sombre moment to remind the intrepid explorer of the personal horrors and individual tragedies all around the wasteland. Moments like this abound in the game. Wandering around you might find a scenic spot with cars parked nearby and food and plates still on the picnic tables. Was there a family there enjoying a happy gathering just as the bombs fell? Were there children present? What do you suppose the adults might have told them as they started to cry? Use your imagination.

Okay, couple scorched skeleton in bed hugging each other. Wow, detail. Supposedly died during the bomb attack. Right? Wait... why are the walls so... clean? And why is the house still standing? Shouldn't they be collapsed once the bombs fell? Especially one that's strong enough to scorch somebody to the bones? Logic breakdown for me if I attempt to look in for the "details".

Some RPGs strive for personal drama. Play Planescape Torment for that. Some strive for excellence as a tactical combat simulator. Play Baldur's Gate 2 for that. Some strive to create a world filled with wacky and interesting characters. Play Vampire: Bloodlines for that. Some strive to put the character as the hero of an epic action film. Play Mass Effect for that. Some are all about giving the player tons of character creation options to min-max your way to overpoweredness. Play the Neverwinter Nights games for that. Fallout 3 is none of these and doesn't try to be. It's about exploring and wandering. Like the song in the Lord of the Rings:

    The Road goes ever on and on
    Down from the door where it began.
    Now far ahead the Road has gone,
    And I must follow, if I can,
    Pursuing it with eager feet,
    Until it joins some larger way
    Where many paths and errands meet.
    And whither then? I cannot say.

Baldur's Gate 2 is NOT a tactical combat simulator. If you didn't realize it had a brilliant story with excellent dialogue, some even better than Torment. What does Torment, Vampire Bloodlines and BG2 have in common that NWN doesn't? Epic story, epic dialogue, epic characters. What does Fallout 3 has? A hiking simulator.

The Road goes ever on and on
Down from the door where it began.
Now far ahead the Brain has gone,
And I must shoot the fire ants,
Chomping down bethesda shit,
Until it joins my rectum's sway
Where morons meet to eat.
And whither then? That's Todd Howard's way.


It's about turning the next corner and seeing not only what's there, but what was there and what happened there. About satisfying the curiosity to know what's over the next hill or under that bridge you see in the distance. About finding out who has made the dark tunnels of the subways their home. About seeing what's left of the familiar Washington D.C. landmarks: the Capitol Building, the Washington Monument, the Museums.

It's perfectly okay, if the exploration game isn't your cup of tea, just don't disparage others for enjoying it.

Just don't make the mistake of calling a hiking simulator an RPG. That's like saying ketuanan melayu is something that helps the malays.

7) Finally, I can't believe you're defending the author of that Crispy Gamer, because surprise, surprise you and I should be on the same side on this issue. This guy isn't complaining about Fallout 3 because it's not like Arcanum, the previous Fallouts and Ultima 7. Read the article again. This guy is complaining about Fallout 3 because it isn't like Dragon Quest and Halo, and games for the Nintendo Wii. You guys are complaining that Fallout 3 is too dumbed down. That guy is complaining that it's not dumbed down enough! He was confused about what his perks did and whether or not he should carry Ant Meat. Haha, joke's on you.

Actually, read that dude's article again. He didn't like Fallout 3 because none of the consequences matters. Perks don't change the game dynanics much because combat is just too goddamn easy. And he was the few that played long enough to realize that talking to people doesn't really matter, but you still gotta do it and endure the horrible writing anyway because they're quest kiosks. You don't TALK to people because they're interesting and quirky. In FO3 you talk to people because you had to get a quest or something. And even then the compass will point you to the correct person to talk to.

Fallout 3 never stops holding your hand. The best game for those who can't understand that you're supposed to use your brain when doing anything.

---

Added on January 14, 2009, 11:47 am

I haven't tried this one out yet, but I did successfully patch my Asian version of the game with the previous patch using the UK patch. It looks to me like there's a UK version of this patch as well.

bah, hybrid or not a bad game is a bad game and we share the same issues for that todd dude

the thing i dont get is that why everyone just buys the hype of it, i understand the thing about reviewers cause they dont have enough time to get to the game so they give good reviews for the first few moments of the game. (honestly the starting of obivlion was splendid! but thats where it ends). its even worse when i ask people how is fallout 3 interms when you compare to their previous works and it ranks the lowest. behind obivilion which makes it epicly sad really.

what beth created for the past few years was woeful, and i second that its more like a hiking sim. go see the woods, enjoy the scenery and so on. but this also makes me feel sad for all the people who actually do enjoy running around in the woods and ruins and what not, its like if you wanted to get a hike go hike! plan a trip with ye mates on fraisers and you'd get a surreal gaming experience (heck the graphics, atmosphere and audio on fraisers hill are the best ever dude) and its cheaper! lol.

regardless of which lets not spoil the thread for those who do enjoy the game, we should open a thread called is beth good or bad and debate from there.

This thread is epic.Been reading since the start.

This is what happen when people become too smart and start changing things too much.You just end up with a game that is not even similar to the old games while it's not entirely a new game.

No wonder Blizzard is so conservative in SC2 and D3 as too much fundamental changes piss off the fans.

Never really like this game as it's just an eye candy.The environments look great and thats about it.Animation is just horrible,so chunky.

for people who could only think Oblivion as the greatest RPG's example, they'll swallow anything Beth had to offer.. uh, weeii! chunky meats

Heh, plenty of Fallout 3 haters here, but you're free to dislike the game and its makers so long as you do acknowledge there are plenty of people who like these games, like me. I won't respond to that.

However, I do think that you have a more restrictive definition of what an RPG means that I do. I suppose I really hate defining games into specific niches and I love seeing games that break the established conventions. I happen to think that all of the following are RPGs, though all of them break the traditional RPG conventions in some way: the Diablo series, the Grand Theft Auto series, Star Control 2, Darklands, Space Rangers 2 etc. And I love all of them for different reasons.

Of course, I also play all types of games. The only games I absolutely don't play are sports games (except driving games). This might explain why I'm somewhat more open to hybrid games and games that break convention.

Who wants to play the same game all the time? Variety is good. Being different is good.

uh, is this normal?

i play the intro, and then i walk, walk and walk and everyone was just ain't real. talking to somebody, the scenes freezes (except the one who you talking to), and when i shot somebody they don't react much, and the controlling scheme just ain't real. is this normal?

im trying to figuring out whats the best in this game. so far, none yet.

He who pays the piper calls the tune, dude. Bethesda had the money, so it bought the rights. Troika couldn't even afford to keep itself alive. Sucks to me them. Anyway, if I have to live with what the Star Wars prequels have done to the franchise, you can live with Bethesda's version of Fallout.

Did you hear that they're making a new version of the Karate Kid movie starring Jackie Chan as Mr. Miyagi and Will Smith's son as the Karate Kid. There, all your childhood icons ground into the dust.

That was Laurence Fishburne.

Yeap,the same thing will happen if id make Quake 5 with wheels,SC2 with CoH's cover mechanism,or CoD6 with pew pew lasers and light sabers.

Pissed of the loyal fans since the first game,this is what you'll get.Angry vengeful fans that will just kill the devs.

Same thing happen to me when EALA made Generals.C&C without the side bar,WTF???? I hate it so much until they come out with Zero Hour which is a much better game.

Cause your friend did not play the main quest and no, this game has an ending (A pretty crappy 1 )

y didnt u use spoiler tagss??!! i havent even started it yet!

Something to ponder about, Fallout 3 is nominated for 2009 Videogame Writing Award. Surprising? Not really. (IMO)

Anyway just finished the game 2 days ago and now going on it again on my second play through. The final battle was awesome and guess what, the ending wasn't such a disappointment to me. Maybe I was just playing my character to follow more of his/her dad in the game. So ... my general outlook for the game was a good one. The only complaint I have is that they used that generic voice guy too often (but hey, then he wouldn't be the generic voice guy, wouldn't it?) and the pacing near the end was too fast to mimic the urgency (which is good or bad depending on what kind of experience you are looking for).

Another point to ponder about, just read the PC Gamer for this month and the fact that the editors all had Fallout 3 in their top 3 games of the year speaks volumes about how good this game is. Personally, it could be Bethesday paying them to do this but the fact that alot of reviewers are echoing the same thing must mean that the game has something good going for it.

Anyway, just my opinion. I had fun with this game.

yeah, you definitely need a new hobby before you become the No. 1 Fallout 3 hater that tops the Fallout 3 thread in LYN.

Give me a kiss to build a dream on ..
And my imagination will thrive upon that kiss ..

damn beth.

damn, i'm near completion
but have to do some side-missions. its fun! but entering the railway stations and darky lab science wasn't my favourite.

Yup the ending were total bull & chesscake. The Chinese soldier talks funny mandarin accent. The only special loot were the chinese stealth suite.