Very true

One thing I did find out is...........most important is frame geometry that suits your body. This is something we cannot control sadly, because bike shops here have no 7 day return policy like they do. Also, many riders buys because the bike looks nice to them (including myself ). Only then later when I ride them, nothing seems to be right. Like the Giant I had, supposed to be lighter and nicer although the fold is terrible, but I don't fold often so it did not matter. Even putting in better and proven group set didn't improve the riding. But from experience................ I have to say this.

It is the bike's frame geometry. If it is right, it is RIGHT I say this because I started with Exitway mtb. Bought that because of the XT components. To buy separately, Fox's fork, XT grouppo is already the price of Exitway complete! So, to start off, I got that and ride. I then changed to Santa Cruz Chameleon paying 2K for a used frame. Moved all the components over and I now have a 8K mtb. Then it hits me.........the ride was no better than the Exitway, but subconciously I wanted a branded one so I ignore it. Then I got hold of a used Giant full sus and it was wonderful. The geometry was good for me. It was only RM650 for the frame but it was really fun to ride. Sold off the Santa Cruz frame and had money to spare.

So, when I went back to folding bikes, I stayed loyal to Giant and got the Expressway. No matter how I mod or improve the components, I did not get the feel of the Dahon Speed that I rode formerly. So, I decided to go back to Dahon and got myself the Bickerton Junction frame. I have no components left because to get rid of the Giant Expressway, I had to sell off everything or no go!

Then came Desastar's Birdy frame............ Now I am giving that a try. So, my Dahon frame is for sale. Hard to sell just the frame though, so I am making it into an 8 speed basic unit to sell. Any takers?

Point is........................ geometry is really important for ride comfort. There's a lot of difference between a well researched bike brand and normal brands. Look carefully, brands like Dahons, Terns and the like and even Birdy for that matter. It's expensive but the components really sucks! BUT for normal brands, the frame OK-lah but the components are great! But for newbies, they generally go for this. Many won't know the difference until they actually ride on one and by that I mean really rides like 30 km to 50 km on a weekend. So, more experienced riders will appreciate frame geometry. Maybe the Birdy might not suit me, who knows yah !

I have a Brompton rider friends, fact is I know many, many, many Brompton riders but this one I meant, he has 3 Bromptons and ALL of them are pre-loved unit. Even after paying RM1000 for transporting it to Malaysia, it is still cheaper, averaging about 4K for each. He still browse through eBay , Craiglist etc. So far , most of his bikes looks fine. Now here's the funny part, he also got a classic Dahon DA and started refurbishing it and after riding it, he seems to ride the Dahon more. I asked why? He said the bike seems to ride nicer.

In fact, I am actually looking for Bromptons which are alsready 'koyak' . I want to refurbish them actually but hard to find here as most local 'B' riders treat their 'B' like their precious. "My precious, My precious".

I think I want a Dahon classic also. Looks nice with leather trims...huh ?

Designers of LTWoo are former staffs of SRAM. They are not really that bad, in fact they are good.

If you have the spare dough, go ahead and fulfill your desires. You are not the only one doing it anyway. Brompton is more of a classic, a cult like desire. But definitely not the 'cream de la cream' of folding bikes. It's compact (best and smallest fold), that's no doubt about it and very convenient for commuters, you know the last mile transport as they call it. It is expensive because of the small numbers they make and this was before it became a cult. They did not make it cheaper even after sales grew but kept increasing profits by making more expensive limited editions and color schemes. Well, that's business, right? Can't complain about that.

While most others are spending quite a big chunk of profits for R & D, what does a Brompton need to be researched on. There's no research anymore as they maintain it as a classic design. Only colors and profiting more from the accessories.

Give time for other manufacturers to come up as their patent for the fold has expired. Companies like Dahon (the Curl) which is actually more advanced model now and also the Korean Chedech. This 2 are their closest rival for now. Both of them are lighter and more advanced. They will cut into Brompton sales. Not all are classic freaks. Why would rider want to carry a 14 kg+ bike compared to a 10 kg bike onto LRTs or buses if you are not a classic freak. Like I said, it's a cult and many buys Brompton because of peer pressure.

As to your question, go ahead, I have friends who have more than 2 of the same bikes. One of them even bought another new one because it was on sale and he already owned 3 of it. I think they are just happy looking at it. The Dahon Speed is a workhorse. My experience is...............I started folding bikes with the Dahon Eco C7. Modded to 27 speed and it served me well. That was the first folding bike I ridden so I cannot judge others then. Then I got the Dahon Speed , transplanted the components over and it was a better ride. I even got the Dash, Tern Link, Giant Expressway, Boardwalk, Performer velo, tried my friend's Brompton, Alex Moulton and also got to try the Dahon Dove, FnHon 16 inch, FnHon 18 inch, Trinx, XDS, Java Fit (I assembled for friends) and guess what ? None of all these actually feels comfortable like the Dahon Speed. As Joshua Hon said before, " The Dahon Speed " is the cream de la cream' of folding bikes. Their R & D on the Speed is quite extensive and till today the design of the frame is the MOST copied one till today, albeit without the Dahon's fold mechanism, the handle post design because it still under their patent. In fact Dahon still has 30 patents on their design.

So, buying another one or not is your desire because another one will just ride the same as your existing one. Unless, you want your partner to also ride the same bike lah.

This post has been edited by etigge: Jan 4 2018, 03:24 PM

One thing about Brompton is the attraction is great. Even myself was tempted to get two of it but the sale failed because the 'towkay' Eng Hern here was arrogant. I think I am lucky in a way too here in Taiping as there are not many B riders here. I only know one who collects Bs and AMs. He even got the limited edition red and white Brompton for 11K , I think. Not too sure. But he rarely rides, never with me though because I am not a Brompton rider or an Alex Moulton rider. If some Brompton riders from KL or Penang visits me, he appears with his wife , both on Bromptons. So, I guess he only rides with Brompton riders. Don't really mind anyway.

You see, if your group of riders are majority Brompton riders, you will eventually go for one regardless if the bike is really worth the bucks or not. That's is what we call, " The power of conformity ". Don't believe, check the Youtube below,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgRoiTWkBHU

That's for the magnet. Use to hold the two section when folded.

Weight issue differs from individual to individual. It is not about wanting to ride easier. Some won't mind , like yourself if the only purpose is to sweat it out. While others are critical for portability. Carrying a 13 kg bike compared to a 10 kg bike is a whole lot of difference. Also when riding in groups, a lighter bike, especially the wheelsets gives you a big advantage on completing the ride or not lagging too far behind. With a lighter bike, maybe one can complete a 50 kilometer ride confidently. Off course , one can say it is just a matter of practice, training but an oldie like myself, you can't beat age. Some even struggle to fit the bike into the boot of their cars, especially lady riders.

One point a heavier bike wins over lighter bike is stability though. Also a heavier bike rolls down a slope faster. I ride with my wife most of the time and she rides a 9 kg mini velo while I ride a 12 kg foldie. I may be the stronger rider but I tire out faster than she does. That's where the weight advantage lies. An individual can ride a heavy bike, no problems as he/she can determine when to stop if they are tired. In groups, you have to follow the group on a pre-determined route. You still sweat when riding a lighter bike but it offers more advantage over a heavier one.

This post has been edited by etigge: Jan 6 2018, 03:57 AM

I want to concentrate on one project......the Birdy now and I am giving up on the Dahon project. Anybody wants to take over ?

Here's what have been done so far........

The frame, a Dahon Route has been painted green with an eco theme. The fork has just arrived from Taobao and headset installed. Needs some modifications but done. Painting will be done in the same color as the frame.
The handle bar post )adjustable height) is assembled.
The Biologic seatpost with pump ( a tad heavy (700 gm) as it come with a mini foot pump)
Magnets for the fold hold is assembled.
Tern's original RD adapter (the frame initially was designed for Neos RD)
The FD adapter is also in place. (this adpater is the best as the angle of the FD can be adjusted apart from the height , off course) . This is important nowadays as the FD cages of the current are small.

Here's the extra. I do have a 7 speed wheelset but I got a 9 speed SRAM X7 shifters with an X7 RD so I am in a dilemma to whether put in the 7 speed setup or go ahead with the 9 speed x 2 setup. If I go for the latter, I need to go for another wheelset which I am a bit reluctant as I want to go for the Birdy As for brakes, I will throw in a new set of Avid SD3 calipers with FR5 levers. I have a cheapo saddle if you want.

So, for those interested to take over, you need to get a new wheelset, a 2 chainring crank (I have a few old good chains, I think ) , a handlebar (80) and cables. I say, you need to spend another 800 apart from the initial project. I can part with my project for 1200 (quite worthwhile actually, in total you get an 18 speed Dahon for 2K. 75% are new parts. Don't worry about assembling charges, I can do that for you.

Please note though, a new Dahon Route with 7 speed setup is now selling for 1.6K If you want a same setup, I can let you have the wheelset FREE with tires and inner tubes. I take back the FD adapter, the SRAM shifters and RD, the RD adapter and I can complete the bike with 7 speed for 1.2K. You still have the Biologic seatpost though. I will get a Shimano Tourney RD to complement the setup. Still a bargain if you ask me, the orders from Taobao consisting of the fork, Biologic seat post, magnet, handlebar post is already almost 500. Add in the Avid brake set another 110, local seller , a handlebar and grips plus free wheelset etc, I am actually giving you the frame and painting for FREE.

PM me if you want to take over.

I am going for 20 inch. The front fork is for 20 inch, already being sent as you know. Already got the V-brakes set. Haven't decided on the groupset, waiting to see if any buyer wants the Dahon with or without the SRAM X7. What else ? I think almost have everything that can be found here. Really interested in the other Birdy though, trying to sell off the mtb but no buyer till now.

Nowadays, most rims are made in China nowadays and even the cheap ones are double layered and for a rim with just 20 inch diameter, most are strong enough. Other criteria is weight but then most are aluminium. So the weight differs only a little. Many won't come with DT Swiss spokes or Sapim so talking about spokes is also non useful as it will come standard stainless steel spokes. Hubs is a different matter altogether. Good ones are all over a thousand bucks and those below this are usually the same kind coming out from the few factories in China. So, most of the times, getting a cheap one compared to an expensive one is a matter of branding nowadays. I used to use Novatecs ( 4 years ago it was only RM180 a pair ) group with Weinmann DA16 rims (also RM100 a pair). Got some cheap stainless spokes and brass nipples and it served me well for 3 years. No broken spokes and bent rims. Also no seized bearings.

The point here is, any RM350 rims (many available in BBS brand new) is quite OK already nowadays. There's one, Kinetix with Formula sealed bearing hubs , only RM350 or so. The shop is called dirstore or something.

Sayang lah! your wheelset is red color, else I want to get from you. Anyone else here have a cheap 406 wheelset for sale?

Front fork painted with matching color and installed with magnets attached. Siapa mau ? Cheap cheap, RM1,000 with standard 7 speed.

No brand.....some capalang kind. Bought at RM220 from GS Bikes a few years ago. Still OK till now. Painting stand 'pun dia' , repair stand 'pun dia'.

Now RM280 , I think

https://bicyclebuysell.com/item/254786/alum...le-repair-stand

This post has been edited by etigge: Jan 17 2018, 08:12 PM

To fit in a Dimpa bag, the only Dahon that can be done is the Curl, Dove or Curve. And all three are 16 inch except for the Dove which is 14 inch. You will need a bigger bag for flights if you want to travel with a 20 inch bike.

I have been toying with the idea of designing a flight case for a regular 20 in folding bike with wheels for easy pushing around. Too bad the flight case will cost more than a regular bike. To minimize the size, both wheels need to be taken off. Could be smaller than the Dimpa bag is design properly. You need to store the flight case somewhere after landing though.

Take a look at the Dahon Route picture below. The frame after folding with handle post actually fits in a 2'-0" x 2'-0" space. The two wheels can actually sandwich the frame at the empty corner. My guess is the flight case can be 50 inch x 50 inch x 18 inch.



What a flight case looks like. if we use fibre glass panels with aluminum corners it will be light. Since protection is not needed much for a bike, a thin layer will do.

Frankly though. for a person like myself, I can actually half dismantle the folding bike and fit everything in a Samsonite case. Just take off two wheels, release the handlebar (make sure you get QC type). Fold or take out the pedals. Use 1 inch thick sponge (like those used for tiling works, sold in hardware stores) and sandwich to prevent scratching or dents. Easy to push around and no worries for baggage handling. You just need to know some bike maintenance, that's all. Can be easily learned.

If you want me to do up a bike, I am all for it. Very free nowadays.

This post has been edited by etigge: Jan 17 2018, 09:34 PM

Thank you guys. A forummer (now a friend, off course) visited me in Taiping yesterday and took over the Dahon Route frame. I am now assembling the whole setup into a 2 x 10 speed for him. Will post a picture of the completed bike once ready.

Anybody want a 20 inch 406 wheelset , let me know. It's for 7 speed only YA. Possible with a 8 speed freehub cogs. You can have it FREE if you want it.

Too bad I am not well skilled in foundry works. Else I would design a bike, not folding but can fully dis-assembled like a sniper rifle. Then carrying around is very much easier. Just need time to assemble it only. Afterall, most riders here are not critical of folding and unfolding times anyway. I see many, even those that ride bikes that claimed to unfold in 15 seconds take their time taking out of their boot, unfolding, adjusting, ride around for a moment, fit their helmets and gloves, take their bottle out etc etc and the whole process takes half an hour. Hahahahaa

The most difficult part of frame building is getting the frame to be aligned perfectly. This has almost zero tolerance else your geometry is out. It will like those lorries we see on the road where their front tires are not aligned to their rear tires That's why those custom frame builders or reputable frame makers have special jigs to aligned the pieces and even with that they still need to re-adjust after the final weld.

Also important is where the welding is going to take place, ideally there should be no gap between two pieces, just a V-groove for the weld or brazing. Too big a gap, you actually will burn a hole into the steel pipes. Building a bike frame is not like welding up some 'pasar malam' tables. I actually have thought of scavenging old frames just to get the right diameter BB housing, headdset tubes and rear dropouts but it became too tedious. I was thinking of making a carbon fibre frame at that time. You know making a model out of wooden beads and pieces , then building the mold for it.

There use to be a custom bike builder somewhere north but he seems to fizzle out, I guess. He makes more of roadbikes and tourers. Wonder where he got his chromoly pipes?

I am interested in the Ultegra crank and also the pair of 406 Schwalbe Supremes. Message me please regarding price.

The assembling is complete



The FD adapter....the one that we can adjust the angle, incidently don't have a cable stop So, I changed to the other type but the FD was too far away from the seat tube and I tried putting spacers between the BB to get the chainring align but the spindle of the Ultegra was too short to accommodate the other side's crank. So, I use the old adapter (which was nearer to the seat tube) and then use one part of the new RD adapter as a cable stop. Now I can make the cable stop as low as I want it to be.



I also discovered another problem. I found an old used Ultegra RD ( 11 sp type version ) and fitted onto the bike. But I got a Tiagra 10 sp shifter for it. They work but somewhere in the middle, you cannot get an accurate adjustment. Then I changed an older version Ultegra , taken from my wife's velo ( 10 sp and grey colour ), it works perfectly. I asked around about it and the lbs says the same but if you get the newer version of the Tiagra shifters (black casing), it will work on the newer 11 sp Ultegra RDs.

I got them SLX 10 speed cassette 11/32T. Combined with 53/39T in the front will give 24 gear inches to 96 gear inches. Very wide.



The older version Tiagra shifter and the Avid FR5 brake levers.



The Avid SD3 s brake calipers.



The Wellgo quick release pedals.



Not much choice for wheelsets but this is quite OK. Sealed bearings and light Can get them around RM400.00, either 406 or 451 The Schwalbe Supremes, still available here at 110 bucks each here. My choice of tire for folding bikes. Last you a long time, enough grip with good and smooth rolling factors.



The most common seat post. The new owner wants a lighter seatpost instead of the Biologic. So, we swapped it. There are many fakes of this seat post though, got to be careful.



As for the saddle, I can't choose for her wife, yes, he's getting for his wife. They will have to choose it as I don't have a reference of what will be suitable
The folded view,



This post has been edited by etigge: Jan 24 2018, 11:39 AM