From what I observe from the comments here so far, I deduct that you are just starting on this folding bike path. Also I can also deduct that you are the type that who wants to only buy ONCE and use it till the end. You are also one of those who don't like to do modding of any kind. Custom building is one of the solution but then to do so, you need to know what components do you really like, what kind of rides you will do now and eventually. Slopes, flats or both? This will determine the proper gearings to get. Also, think, will you be still riding after 6 months or a year and how far you think you will go. Have you hear or have friends riding, are you excited to hear what they do or where they ride?

Custom building is NEVER cheap. They are usually over 2K or 3Ks even for just a simple custom job. If cheap components are considered , why bother customizing at all, right? Also, thinking ahead , you will need to consider road bike components or mountain bike components. To ask every question from the beginning onwards, it will take a long time before you decide From my experience in this forum, the number of questions I answered.........................they will eventually do something else the moment they enter the local bike shop, hahahaaa. Bike shops thinks of target, profit margin and surplus stocks they still have but they seem to be able to convince new buyers more easily than us here.

I suggest you go for Java as this brand gives the highest specs for the lowest price with an acceptable frame and brand. Going for branded ones like Dahon, Terns with the same specs will almost double the price. Then there's the elite market which are Bromptons, Bike Fridays and Pacific Bikes which are priced even higher like someone always says here. " I rather go buy a kapcai ". Get the Java first and see how it goes after 6 months or a year later, then maybe you might go buy a Brompton straight away, many of my fellow rider friends did.

If you are in Perak, I can assemble the bike for you, no problem. Oh yeah, here's another suggestion on your choice of bike. Have you heard of Crius? For slightly over 2.5K , the dolphin shaped frame is equipped with the lightest and best specs. All components are made by Litepro.



This post has been edited by etigge: Mar 2 2018, 07:33 PM

If riding mostly flat roads, you can go for this , just add another RM200 to your budget.

https://bicyclebuysell.com/item/436916/daho...eed-falco-akibo

One of the best riding folding bike. Although 8 speed ( it is actually cheap for a branded bike ), it will not be hard to add another chain ring in future if you want to increase to 16 speed. Also, in the case if you really progress well and want to actually go for better bike, it is easier to sell off without much of a loss. Like I said, if flat road rides, 8 speed is more than enough. And if you want to tackle more hilly rides, it is also quite easy to change to a bigger range cassette. But as it is, I think the 11/32T cassette is enough to tackle a lot of roads already.

Sampai Tua la.............waiting for frame to crack The Birdy frame I got from 'desastar' is a year 2000 model and still going strong, that's 17 years ago. Hahaaaa.

Re-mortgaged your home for a few kilos of tubes and metal parts....................hahaaaa. That's a bit far fetched isn't it? Doing so for a automobile, maybe yes but bicycles.........unless you are nuts about Alex Moultons and their limited edition series. I know Billy here, the bike shop owner paid RM23,000 for his and still needs to wait 8 months for delivery. But his logic is for investment as he said, " Another few more years , it will even cost more ".

The subject leading to this tread was his first bike and he has budgetted 1.5K for his first venture. So, no need to buy a junk bike and then gets fedup with it because of the ride it gives and TOTALLY abandon riding altogether.

Many of us rides because we like to do it and many of us do not ride because the doctor told us to do so. No, we may not be smarter than a bicycle manufacturer but we do know what we actually want and the bike manufacturer cannot please all in general. They have to make many, many, many , many , many .................many, many sacrifices to the quality and rights to make a bicycle affordable to most of the general riders. Like, skip the heat treatment process, steal other's design, hire cheaper un-skilled welders or painters, skip quality control procedures and so many more. So, if someone CAN AFFORD a better bike, why not, even if it is his first ride.

Waiting for boarding

desastar the one on the foreground is the frame you brought from Oz. The one leaning at the rear is a Rhine actually. Looks similar , right? The real Birdy is 17 years model already with the newer one having a different rear stays design. The latest Birdy Classic also uses the stays from Mk 2s.

The ride, the feel is actually very similar on both bikes. This led me to think that t is not worth to actually buy the Birdy, ie. if you don't mind riding a Rhine. All accessories from Colorplus, Ridea and another brand (can't recall) are inter usable. Bolt treads are the same. I can confirm the Classic is made by Rhine but Pacific bikes still reserves making their Mk 2s and 3s in Taiwan , else it replicas would have hit the market already.

The latest Birdy Classic main frame is also smaller now compared to the older models. The old frame circumference is definitely bigger. One point that can distinguish the Rhine from Birdy is the cables of the latest models are internally routed. Also the rear suspension is also mounted differently. The geometry is slightly different but the ride, not much difference. The main tube is horizontal but mine is not because I have modded it to 20 inch so the front is slightly higher. Both the bikes are 10 speed with 11/40T cassette. The Rhine has a little chain rub on the rear stays at the lowest gear ( I have to file off to thin it a little ) while the older MK 1 Birdy has a lot of space to accommodate.

I did a 50 kilometer ride last weekend and it was good. For me it is though but my average speed is just 15 km/h. That little contraption that bolts near the BB to hold the chain slack when folding , cost over 200 bucks I am still waiting for mine from Taobao along with the chain guide and the V-brake adapter. Birdy's parts are a bit hard to source locally as it is not popular but I managed to install a Brompton's rear suspension on the Rhine but can't work on the Birdy MK 1.

One good point though, both the bikes weighs around 11 kgs.

It's hard to ride terrain where we are not prepared for. I usually will turn back Then again, we ride because we want to enjoy riding , right? If it is too torturing, I won't do it. Lessons I learned when I was scuba diving. PADI's motto, " If you don't enjoy it. don't do it !" Not that I never done it, I did and that was the last time I ride there again. I tried the Hulu Langat 18th mile to Titi ride. Started at 7.15am and the ride ended at 4.45pm in the evening. Like I said, I only did once.

Anyway, rides like this actually builds up your confidence.

Anyone remembered the Dahon Dash X20 ? I rode a Dash before and I then replicated the X20, even the limited yellow colour. I even changed the wheelset to 451. There's one Dash for sale , quite cheap in BBS now,
https://s10.postimg.org/42m9dunh5/dashx20.jpg

Anyone interested in folding velo should go for it. If you want to replicate the X20, let me know I have all the parts for it, right up to the wheelsets.

Every bike has their own characteristics defined by their geometry. The Dahon Speed is actually the brainchild of Joshua Hon when he was still in his father's company. That was the best bike that came out from Dahon. Multi purpose and successful so much so that they are still making it. So much research was put inot it, They made it into a tourer, a usual folder, an UNO single speed....in fact most kinds. I had one before and took me for far rides with no problems. It was the best ride, it still is even compared to the Birdy I am riding now.

That was why, I suggested to Str33boy to pay an extra 200 to get that. But like I said, many will ask for suggestion and advice but when comes to the crunch, higher specs with lower price wins.

I have always dictate this mantra," Get the frame right first, any other parts can be changed and modified ".

The Dahon Speed is not that expensive nowadays since Dahon moved their manufacturing to China. Many variations of the Dahon has surfaced and with Taobao marketing worldwide it has become a common model. P8 means 8 speed, D7 means 7 speed.........and so on. The Falco is the same speed with upgraded components for more sportier ride. Thinner tires and 451 wheels is the norm here and added with dual chain rings.

B lower end ... almost replaces C
D is deluxe
P is premium
X is all out awesomeness

P usually have better components, better rims and hubs, better groups etc.

If you look around, you can actually find a Dahon Speed , especially Gary in BBS, he is located in Kota Kemuning. He brings in Dahon Archer which is actually Speed and Mustang and Bullet which is actually Dahon Vitesse. They are around 1350 only. But lousy componentsts

You are trying to absorb too much and it will eventually corrupt your decision Better if you just go get a bike and then do trial and error later. There's never a rider who buys only once and gets satisfied with that, those who are still riding after a year or so....I mean. No matter what, whatever bike you ride for the first time, no matter how much you pay for it...........you will still change your bike later on if you are still riding. There's something call "peer pressure" . I have riding friends changing from an 18 speed Java FIT to a 6 speed Brompton. Most of the kaki's are riding it so it is not a problem. The husband tried it and says, " The ride is terrible " and he then added another chainring and upgraded to 18 speed on his Dahon MU. The husband did not succumb to peer pressure and understood.

So, my point is, humans are never contented. Even a lady rider wants to change her bike after a year and the husband who can tackle the hills from Jerantut to Kuala Tahan on his single chainring MU P8 wants to upgrade to 18 speed with better RD and shifter (the Dahon's original twist shifter, the green one is really crappy BTW). After upgrading, riding was a breeze and he has full of praises for the upgrade and so eager to go for long rides.

So, we used to go for long rides and I will anticipate the wife will be facing problems....hahaaaa. But that's riding GO GET A BIKE ALREADY !

This post has been edited by etigge: Mar 7 2018, 11:05 AM

See I told you already. You will get confused. You are asking the same question over and over again and the question you are asking, we cannot actually answer you directly. Everyone's anatomy is different, everyone's stamina level is different, everyone's mental state is different.

I give you a solution, visit Kimbell Jaya in Cheras Perdana, he has the most kind of folding bikes in one shop. Sit on everyone of them. Scan your eyes over the bikes, choose the color that appeals to you. Then pay for it. Frankly, if you have never ride a folding bike before, you won't know the difference on how good the bike is. There's no bench mark carved in your head yet. So, it's hard for you to judge. You might even go for the Raleigh Ugo, who knows? Then even if you made a mistake, I wouldn't call it a mistake, I rather call it an experience, you then know where you stand and what you want, especially after doing some rides with many other riders. Usually , seasoned riders keep the bike as a spare while he gets another better bike or two or three................hahahaaaa.

Some use the bikes as spare and if their spouse/GF is free, they can ride together. Don't worry, it is bound to happen. Riding is a social thing nowadays.

That is why most newbies who asked question here never followed what we advised. The profit margin of cheap bikes are higher and since they are cheaper, they are easier to sell. And LBS will really hard sell you the cheaper ones. But to be fair also, in 100 new buyers how many percent will actually be still riding after a year? I don't have the statistics but most probably less than 10 percent. Problem with bike shops is, they will gladly sell you cheap bikes but these bikes needs more care than higher end bikes, I mean maintenance and after a while, the bike shop fella will start to grumble. Worst still, they will tell you, " Look! what do you expect for the price you pay ".

Try sending a Japanese cheap reconditioned bike to a bike shop and see, then after a few days send it again and then again, see what his response is. For a better bike, you don't need to as they don't need as much maintenance as the cheaper one does. Don't get me wrong yeah! When I mean good condition is the silence when we ride, the smoothness of the components, the crisp gear shifting etc etc and not the creaking, rattling and scrubbing sound when you see a Bangla riding past on their bikes. If one wants to ride such bikes, why worry about brands or budget. Just get the cheapest and then throw it away and get another one when it gets too bad to ride. Banglas do that anyway. First they get something for 300 bucks and then ride, ride then RD gives problem they throw away the RD and use single speed and minus one side of the brakes and then wobbling wheelset and then they send for repairs and never went back to claim them Just look at the front of the local bike shop, every shop has a dozen or more such of these bikes in front of their stores.

Some local bike shops don't even entertain bikes that are not sold by them.

This post has been edited by etigge: Mar 7 2018, 09:55 PM

What info does one need on cheap bikes ? Prices, brands..........quality is not a question , right? Servicing their health means you change their components to better ones, maybe some good used units. If everyone do what you do, there won't be any used good units for sale either, right? That also starts with a good frame and usually that's not cheap either. There's a brand called Cobra from Indonesia, priced only at RM320.00. Frame is aluminium and size and design is exactly like the Dahon Speed. I repainted that before. I shodded it with all my best stuffs and when I ride, it's terrible, totally different feel. Why? I don't know and can't explain either. Most probably the geometry but the design and size is the same Maybe it needs to have cheap components too...hahahaaa.

Take an example, gear shifting, a Shimano Tourney can shift, a cheap China made shifter also can shift, heck even those 18 bucks without indexing also can shift, so it works right. But why do one need an Ultegra or a Dura ace? Perplexing isn't it?

But for me, I enjoy riding a bike. I just love the scenery and company, the crazy bantering and most of all I need not worry about my bike giving problems. Yes, sometimes they do but occasionally when the bike is not maintained properly. I don't want to ride and then when I see a slope in front the gear starts clacking, clacking away. It does shifts , maybe after a few attempts but by this time I have to get down and push already as I have lost my momentum. Once that happens, it is hard to start uphill.

Then there's the silence. It's feels so good to know that your bike is working perfectly in tune, just the humming of your freewheels. Not the , clack,clack, clack or humming whenever the brake shoes rubs a certain part of the rims. Or the loosening of the seat post collar or the clacking from the square taper spindles of the BB, or the grinding of the bearings in the cone as water proofing is zero in cone bearing setups.

I will give another example but this is on mountain biking. This guy have the same idea that you have. A mtb is a mtb, regardless if it is 1K or 2K or 10K. So, after much haggling, he choose a 980 bucks mtb. Yes, it does have a suspension fork, an aluminium frame, mtb knobby tires, disc brakes, right. It should handle the job. That's what he thinks. First ride with the lbs gang, during a downhill, he hits a rut , the fork splits into two and he went rolling down. He suffered a broken collar bone and some bruises. That is small compared to the bruising on his ego. Worst of all, NO GUARANTEE either on that fork.

There's a chinese proverb, " Cheap stuffs are never good and good stuffs are never cheap ". Heard of this?

I am not belittling those who buys cheap bikes. I am just saying, try to buy the best you can afford. And understand what you need the bike for. If you can't , no body belittles you, just understand the bike's capability. If you are going to ride with a group for 2 days, 3 days or even 50 kilometers on a weekend, you don't want to have problems with your bike and disrupt the whole groups' ride. The best way to ensure this is,GET A GOOD BIKE ! That is common courtesy for riding in a group, another one is make sure you know how to change your tubes when puncture happens, bring your own spares, refreshments etc.

I can understand if the doctor tells you , you need to exercise. In this instance, any bike that make you sweats and just around the neighbourhood is fine. Even your kid's BMX or a fixie will do. But you cannot compare this scenario with other more serious riders scenario. Have you actually do long rides before or 2 to 3 days ride? I don't want the answer, you only need to answer yourself. So, why compare? Your decision obviously is not going to affect me and vice versa.

This post has been edited by etigge: Mar 8 2018, 09:05 PM

I think the Litepro crank, although uses GXP BBs, the crank bolts are ISIS. They come in 3 sizes, namely M15 (which you say doesn't fit) or the M14 or the M12. Actually if you don't mind the appearance, you can go to a nut and bolt shop and get a M14 and M12 allen bolt and the corresponding washer. I suspect it is the M12. FSA and Race Face use this size.

Don'try to find the original as many LBS don't stock this crank. Instead try finding FSA ISIS crank bolts for mountain bikes. Hope this helps. Here's a link to the sizes;

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/my/en/f...lts/rp-prod4010
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/my/en/r...olt/rp-prod3171

Another alternative is....if you really can't find that is, get an easy to find M15 and then ask the foundry to machine it to M12.

This post has been edited by etigge: Mar 9 2018, 09:26 AM

Sometimes we are just happy to offer our advise from experience, I mean me myself too started from cheaper bikes. Although I started from (folding bikes category) a used Dahon Eco C7 which is the entry level of the Dahon. At that time I can't afford to actually buy a bike but one needs to occupy themselves in times of hardship. Experience from mountain biking days in the 1998s to 2001s has told me that a cheap bike won't encourage you much to pursue your hobby. I called it hobby because it is a passion from me and my wife. So, Dahon was the most reknown of folding bikes those days and incidently I saw an ad in Mudah.my and not BBS, because I haven't heard of BBS at that time. I bought the first folding bike for a mere 600 bucks and then slowly I started fiddling with it. Then I got my second Dahon Eco C7 , a new one this time from Kimbell Jaya. Jimmy sold it to me for 1K flat.

Those days, upgrading a folding bike was unheard off. I wanted to change the 7 speed to 8 speed. I found an 8 speed freehub cogs. He adamantly says it can't be done. So, I told him to just take out the old cog and fit in the new cog, that's all. He did it for 30 bucks. Yes! 30 bucks, just unscrew the cogs and screw in the new one. A few months later, LE Run had it's first warehouse sale and I was there and bought 3 Sora triple chainring cranks, some LX shifters. I started fiddling and Jimmy from Kimbell Jaya help me a lot in getting some difficult to find parts and also in the same note started observing and also both of us started the process of modding folding bikes. He was the only shop that will accommodate my crazy ways. Johnny Ng from MBS loathe me and even Sam Cheong started critisizing me in his folding bike blogs. If you go to V2 or 3 of this tread , you will see how the modding progress and also how I fell off from MBS and Sam Cheong. Sam Cheong even block me from his FB page because he and Johnny cannot accept that folding bikes can be modified.

So, after a year riding, I ride the Dahon Speed with 27 speed and my wife rides the Boardwalk also with 27 speed. Then the Dahon Dash was converted to 20 speed. Between all this was the Vigor, in fact I was the first person to acquire the Dahon Vigor when it was launched in Malaysia. The moment it arrive in Kimbell Jaya, I took one home already. That one, I modified to 20 speed also using the SRAM X5 components with SRAM Apex FD. Later on, modding was a normal thing in folding bikes and it becomes easier now as parts and know how is all over the internet. The China chinese are doing it on their products, so it's not a big deal anymore.

My point is, we learn from the journey, it's not easy and also after so much, we just want to show how to do it. Listening or not is totally up to an individual. But I do not discriminate if you are riding a 300 bucks bike or a 1K bike or even a 7K Brompton. I always advise those who can't afford ( some actually can afford but they just want to justify the cost ) to buy what the highest price bike they are willing to spend. It helps. It helped me on my first bike. Likewise, it is also just right that those unwilling to spend much on a bike don't slam insults on us that are spending more on bikes. It is just fair right? Afterall, this is just a hobby. I see other hobbyist spends thousand and thousands on RC planes and helicopters, even more thousands and thousands on photography and even more astronomical sums on 4WDs offroad hill trekking.

Looking at this tread now, it seems that the whole episode is just not worth the time. I have been on this tread a long time, since V2, I think. I am growing tired also. I think I should stop. Anyway it is not hard to get advise nowadays with so many information on the net and local bike shops. It will however, makes me having more free time instead of poring over the tread answering questions. I am just going to have many nice rides and leave KenC to his crusade against expensive bikes. So, he can advocate his mantra of getting the best for pennies. Have you seen the picture of his bike yet? He was so crazy to the extent of asking someone to buy a TIG welder and build their own bikes. Will you? How about you? What constructive arguments will you get from his kind of reply? He's in metal industry for umpteen years he says. So was my father in-law. I never dare to send my bike to him for repairs either. Why? Because he won't understand the dynamics of a bicycle frame, the vast advantages of a good frame and components.

Have you ever experience riding into some villages and some folks ask you how much you bought your bike? Then you answer 3K and see the look on his face. I am sure you did, and this is where the level of his mentality and knowledge is. The same as that villager. ever ponder this?

Happy Riding guys/gals. Maybe someday we ride together. If you meet an old couple on 2 yellow Birdies, just holler us and say you are from the forum Maybe we go for coffee.

nil

This post has been edited by etigge: May 17 2019, 09:09 PM