having experienced high school in both msia and nz , i'd say if ur blaming on education, u have no point. wat we learn in form 3 (PMR msia) can kiss form 5 (NCEA1 NZ) away. standard of education and quality of teachers, msia wins tenfold. learning experience, i'd prefer msia too. but from what i know, the nz education system lets you learn what you want even at school level which includes music, sports science etc which is unheard of in msia. unless for those who have special interest in arts category, i'd prefer msian education system anytime.

instead, for tertiary education, i dont see much greatness in what im learning. but yes, our msian tertiary education fails terribly . factors include unfit lecturers, discrimination, system and such. im sure ur kids will have better future being nz grad, and having a chance to euro countries for OE. if hardworking and determined enough, the world is theirs to conquer.

nevertheless, its really depends what u expect from a country. nowadays, we choose our citizenship based on what they can offer us. however, imo msia education system is not the problem. as u said, even spore can do it, i'd say we are where and who we are coz of our gov. also , i see u choose a country who is more fair and give you your rights to be whoever you want for what you can do. cheers , hopefully all your sacrifice for your children will pay off.

This post has been edited by EmperorMeng: Mar 22 2008, 05:53 PM

dunno about our education system, but I do like their confidence. Some may say that I am exaggerating but usually, Asians keep their mouth shut whereas locals prefer to answer questions or voice out opinions. One Kiwi girl actually told me that they started schooling at the age of 5? If I am not mistaken, and when she knows that we start school at the age of 7, she was shocked. The UK starts at the age of 3 or 4 I think. She used to live in Scotland.

Moreover, there's one thing that I can't stand Malaysian students, be it Malays or Chinese, they usually stick to their own kind. Screw the stereotypical mindset about only Malays tend to mix with their own kind, I see quite a number of Malaysian Chinese doing that too. Some of my friends whom I met here, had totally no respect towards the kiwis here and expect them to treat them nicely.

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Added on March 22, 2008, 6:01 pmI'd say more on the way we were brought up that affects our lifestyle. I can't say that they are inferior to us when it comes to education, in fact, I find them much more mature than us Malaysians at times.

This post has been edited by lilredridinghood: Mar 22 2008, 06:01 PM

racial saggrigation happens , its what we've been thought in msia.
jsut to add about their confidence, sometimes they are just overconfident about things they dont know. but hey, majority arent afraid to do mistakes. same goes to their maturity. sometimes moderation is key.

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Added on March 22, 2008, 6:06 pmi second your addon. as said above, moderation.

This post has been edited by EmperorMeng: Mar 22 2008, 06:06 PM

Moderation yes, some of them tend to be overconfident, which gets really irritating at times. Some of the Kiwis actually hated them for being so.

edlina, you have a lot to learn........hopefully, now that you are in nz, and not subject to the propaganda, you will open you eyes to the world, and to injustice in your own country.......read between the lines.....it's NOT just about education........

ehem..yup!
and now i'll learn, what is REAL life..

Not that Malaysian education is bad. Instead, my primary school and secondary school education are done in Malaysia and I don't feel any standard difference when I was in USA for the 3rd education. Instead, our mathematic standard pwn. However, like Meng said, we ignore other talents such as leadership, music and others, which I feel it is quite crucial to find out the talents as well. Our 3rd drgree need to be re-looked at to be honest and I dont' want to raise my kid and gotta fork out 300k for their education in future (well, good STPM result doesn't guarantee what is your first choice in University...) Another part is the corruption. Before you start your own business, you gotta pay this dato pay that datin...when you are on your business, governement servants disturb you more than the gangster..... I am doign this, at least, give them a chance for better education.

I gotta let go my high management work here, and work more technically in NZ, but in NZ, even you work technically, your career is still good. Currently, we have a oracle dba coming from OZ to solve our problem...he is almost 60 years old, he knows the inside out of oracle database like his pet. very impressive person.

Fantegero, I'm sorry if I was a bit harsh. I'm glad that you're willing to learn and I hope you'll take this chance you have in NZ to broaden you mind. Go out of your comfort zone and you'll be richly rewarded.

I have also experienced the school systems in both Malaysia and NZ. While we are superior in maths and science, we fall far behind in arts and social sciences. The problem with our system (whatever the subject) is that it teaches us to learn by rote and to regurgitate for exams. It doesn't encourage independent thought and questioning among the students.

I once tried to give my own opinion in BM literature analysis and got completely shot down by the teacher. Another time, I tried to question our history textbooks and the 'official' interpretation of events. At least the teacher was nice about it but it was made very clear that anything but the 'official' answer will get no marks in exams. I see these questions about how to score for BM, sejarah, whatever in this forum? The answer is really simple. Just get the textbook/reference book and memorise.

In science and maths, that's not so bad. At the basic school level, there's less room for independent thought, analysis and application. The best way to score in maths is to practice and do exercise after exercise - a good thing IMO cos the basics are really mastered. It is only at the higher levels that your own input become crucial. But for arts and social sciences, memorisation and 'accepted' answers are not the way to go. So we fall far behind. But I suppose it "doesn't matter" since only the dumb kids go the arts stream.

I did law and economics at uni (with some psychology and philosophy papers thrown in). Especially for law and philosophy - guess what my problem was? I had real difficulty scoring in exams and assignments cos my mind was constrained - a general inability to think outside the box. Ask me to tell you the law is, and I'd get it perfect. Ask me to apply it to a situation and I could do it with some adjustment. Ask me to give you a novel solution or to critique another person's analysis (necessary for an A) and I fell apart. It took me quite a while to learn to do something that came naturally to many Kiwis.

There's nothing wrong with making mistakes... that's how we learn. The key is to recognise it and move on. But people who are afraid to make mistakes will never progress. This is one of the greatest weakness of Asians, the fear of making mistakes and looking stupid/losing face.

"I am not discouraged , because every wrong attempt discarded is another step forward" - Thomas Edison

As for their confidence, that was cultivated at school right from primary school level. They are encouraged to speak out and to explore, rather than being shot down and called kurang ajar. Natural curiosity is encouraged rather than suppressed. I see it in my young cousins now and compare it to what we have.

I'm not saying everything about our system is bad in comparison. In general, our syllabus are excellent (as you said). I just think it has been abused and twisted into what it is now. The focus is on As, As, and more As. Who cares if you know what the capital of Germany is or what is going on in Tibet now? How many students even read the newspapers? Gossip and sports pages don't count. How many read non-school books? As long as you get 21 As, nothing else matters. Don't even get me started on the grade inflation syndrome...

We have created a generation of students who know nothing beyond their textbooks, tuition, exam techniques and whatever movies/pop stars that happen to interest them. In short, we created a shallow generation.

Btw I won't say the quality of teachers in Malaysia is higher. Maybe you went to one of the better schools and never had English teachers who couldn't speak English, PE teachers who didn't know the difference between netball and basketball or simply teachers who never bothered to show up for class did you? I taught myself physics and and Form 4 biology. If you count that as learning experience, it did a world of good for me since it taught me to be independent. Then again, I won't take anything away from certain excellent teachers I had in Malaysia. I have utmost respect for them.

To summarise, my problem with the Malaysian system is:
1) next to no emphasis on arts and social sciences;
2) suppressing natural curiosity and independent thought; and
3) exams, exams and exams and grade inflation.
Note that I didn't complain about the syllabus.

This post has been edited by wornbook: Mar 23 2008, 10:46 AM

If one had to sum up Malaysian students on one paragraph, this would be it.

Not to mention being seperated by language; imcompetent in English, racist in Malay and narowminded in mandarin.

Some of my Malaysian friends call me wikipedia simply because I know what the capital of Kyrgyzstan is. They don't know who Lim Guan Eng is. Never heard of Lingam. Only Dayak's live in Sarawak, and because they're "bumiputera's" they're all Muslim. The "prime minister" of Sarawak is a Malay. But hell, ask them to write an essay on the Privy council, up comes wikipedia, textbooks and recommended reading, and they get a 5 for it.

I'm seriously not making any of these up. This is my real life.

btw... that's why the g sends student to study abroad. So that we can open our mind.. i've seen some of my teachers in school, UK graduated. they taught us in different way compare to the local graduated teacher.. and some local graduated teacher also trying to teach us to open our mind. not just follow the text books.. that's why i'm saying it's improving. just the matter of time all the teacher gonna get out from their comfort zone and typical way of teaching.
some of us, maybe being taught by the typical textbook way. but actually, nowadays, in some part of the country, their teachers are improving. even some school got their own dance party, but not all..
these young teachers gonna replace and renew the way of learning. but just the matter of time..

just bcoz we got the bad part, doesnt mean it gonna stay bad.

but what usually happen, intelligent student that went OC, they return to the country, and they tend to do their own business. make money. i mean, not many of em interested to join the authority (politic). or even worst, they stay outside the country. this more to the scholarship student. G sent them to study abroad with scholarship so thay they can return to make change. but sadly, they just stay outside watching their country ruining day by day and at the same time, they say that this country is bad in all term (education, economy etc) without them (who are suppose to return and change the bad to good) return and try to change it.

edlina.. u taking english rite.. after this, what are u gonna b?

btw, edlina. u already got ur flight ticket?? how's the journey?? are u on MAS ??? got any transit??

This post has been edited by fantagero: Mar 23 2008, 04:33 PM

ehem..yah,english..
im thinking about broadcasting,or maybe translator..
i want to improve myself in english more..
that's what i like..well,i got a lil confuse on my career, but IPC said tht they will guide us and give more exposure..

i had discussed with Selset yesterday about my visa,medical check up and my ticket..
seems like,im going alone..
other students are going in August intake..
so my parents will go along with me..
they scared that i might lost or mybe something bad will happen..
and i have to postpone my ticket from 6th to 12th April..
means, i miss my orientation..bcoz i couldn't get my visa before 6th
class start on 14th..my dad will call his agent to manage our flight ticket..
any idea which flight should i take,which is very reasonable?

i heard, if mas, must transit at auckland.. leceh a bit.. must check in twice

many of my senior prefer spore airline to christchurch. dunno if massey..

better avoid transit..
ehmm missing orientation is the bad thing for me..
i missed twice orientation.. once, during my preparation..
2nd.. here in canter.. bcoz of flight

just so u know, 4A flat STPM = medicine in NUS. its as good as guaranteed.
many friends that score stpm simply study in spore.
1. true
2. KBKK, kemahiran berfikir secara kritis dan kreatif. its in our syllabus for all subj.
3. in the end of the day, its still exams be it in UK, NZ or even uni. at least at your foundation years.

probably ur school sux, or mine is good. but hell, time changes.
time changed.
least we know our local scenario.
teenagers are wearing lingam's trademark "correct Correct Correct" T-shirts.
the internet has broaden our minds.

our current gov dont send u overseas so that you come back and stop them corrupting

There is no direct flight to Palmerston North. Coming from Malaysia, EdLiNa will have to transit in either Auckland or Christchurch (plus Singapore). It makes more sense to fly direct from KL to Auckland, and then transit to Palmy. Instead of going KL-S'pore-Christchurch-Palmy, especially since Palmy is in the North Island and Chch is in the South.

But of course, a lot depends on ticket/airline prices.

then??

so u come back 2 serve them properly and be loyal to do whatever you're asked to do.
cheers, imho.

2) Having things like KBKK doesn't mean anything when it's not being properly implemented. Berfikir secara kritis dan kreatif, my foot! It's just a stupid policy to point to to 'prove' that things are ok. Just like how the govt loves to point to the non-independent ACA to 'prove' that they're doing something about corruption. It means NOTHING!

3) Exams are not intrinsically bad. The problem is that in Malaysia, exams are the be-all and end-all of everything. Let's not even talk about school. Look at all the middle-class kids being forced to take piano lessons and pass Grade 8. How many of them are real musicians? How many of them love music? Most just do it to get their Grade 8 cert and that's it. Never have to touch the piano again in their lives. Their parents are happy cos they can brag about how their kids have Grade 8. How was that Grade 8 achieved? Just practice the exam pieces until they're perfected. That's not education. That's just perfecting exam techniques.

And like I said earlier, what does 21 A's actually prove? We need to recognise that there's more to education than scoring A's in exams.

This post has been edited by wornbook: Mar 23 2008, 06:50 PM

well depends on personal perspective.

cheers

2. lol yeah! true. but after doing some course work wif some kiwis, i dont find them much more creative than us. i'd say creativity and thinking ability need not be trained. its in u.
3. say for example piano/music as stated. generally piano classes is for exposure. parents too , want their children to get exposed to more stuff. but pushing for the grades, thats to the limit. they way i see things, kids are choosing what they want. (more) i see kids inspired when going for drum lessons or even guitar classes. the classic school study eat sleep x - repeat doesnt apply anymore. at least for me and my friends, we dont lock ourselves in the room to score As. We do stuff we're interested, and yet get the As. only weak students need to study HARDCORE imo.

This post has been edited by EmperorMeng: Mar 23 2008, 07:00 PM

2) I'm not saying ALL Kiwis are creative and can think critically or that they're all superior to Malaysian students. One of my main gripes with the NZ system is how easy it is to enter university... don't even get me started on NCEA. What I'm saying is that they're far more likely to express their opinions. We Malaysians sit meekly in class and let people tell us the 'right' answer. That's cos if we were inclined to strike out independently, it was struck down at an early age. If we were not so inclined, no training or encouragement was ever provided. The fact is that our school system produces robots - excellent at memorising and regurgitating 'correct' answers. Ask some student why certain nilai moral can be extracted from an SPM BM novel and they'll probably tell you "Cos the reference book says so".

The Kiwis are also more aware of current affairs and the world around them. Maybe not what is occurring in small countries like Malaysia, but at least the major global issues - eg the US Presidential Elections, the possible coming economic crisis, the Tibet/China matter. They may not know the details but at least they have an idea of what's going on. Though I'll readily admit that they have quite a large blindspot when it comes to non-Western matters in general. At least they generally all know what's going on in their own country. I have Malaysian friends who ask me "Who's Khairy?"

3) But many kids want Grade 8 because of the prestige they perceive it gives them (thanks to parental and societal influence). When I was in Malaysia, I thought Grade 8 was really amazing... if you had it you must be a great musician. As for a Diploma, ATCL or Performance Cert etc you must really be a musical genius.

It took me less than 6 months of exposure to the ang mo way of teaching, learning and playing music to change my mind radically. I was already lucky to have a teacher in Malaysia who encouraged me to explore other areas of music and parents who didn't really care about whether I reached Grade whatever. But NZ was an eye-opener.

Btw kids who choose guitar and drum lessons tend to be a different group. Those are doing it tend to do so cos they're interested and enjoy it. It's entirely different from the piano (sometimes violin, flute and organ too) paper chase where parents start their kids on music lessons at age 5 and pressure teachers to let them skip grades, all with the aim of finishing Grade 8 as young as possible. Imagine it - the achievement of finishing Grade 8 with Distinction at only 13! Must be very good right?

As for getting A's - has it occurred to you that it is far too easy to get A's these days? Of course the top students will always get A's. But when people who consistently score 50-60% in school/trial exams suddenly end up with A's at the real thing, something is wrong.
Still, let's not go down that track for now. From what I understand, it's happening all around the world anyway.

Btw Emperor Meng, if you and your friends get good results and enjoy other broad-ranging activities, good on you. For me, I just find it disappointing when my straight A friends (who no doubt have their own interests eg anime, sports, computer games) look at me blankly when I mention the Berlin Wall. And then proceed to say I store up lots of "useless knowledge".

Sorry for the lengthy post. Guess I got a bit carried away.

This post has been edited by wornbook: Mar 23 2008, 07:26 PM