There will always be a failure point for every single pyramid type scheme. Actually, there's a very simple and fatal flaw in your theory in regards to the self sustaining thingy. Notice that anything that is pyramid shaped, the further that u get to the bottom, the bigger the area will be? Same thing here too.

So far the 1st cycle that you've mentioned is alright, that's the start. Basically at that time, the income for the scheme is totally fueled by new recruits investing money in it. Thing is, your theory of the 2nd cycle is way way off. Those who've invested in the 1st cycle, and take out 300% of what they put in, where does that 300% of their original investment come from? From new recruits investing of course. Then if they're to just put in 1/3 of what they earned back in again, the system will still be short of 2/3 of what it paid out. Its simple arithmetic here that will tell you that a should there be no new recruits, the amount of money in the system will decrease, because more money is being taken out than being put in. So, without new recruits fueling the system, there is no way it can sustain. This is not some magic system where it can just multiply your money just like that. the money has to come from somewhere.

Hence the danger point of such systems. The longer it goes, the larger the pyramid becomes, and the need for new recruits to invest will grow as well. Should the rate of new recruits coming in not be able to meet the rate of payouts, that's when the entire system will collapse. Basically, this will also be the point where the ppl running the thing will just pack up and run off with the money instead of paying back, and thanks to the complete anonymous way that they operate, fat chances of ever finding them.

Let me rephrase this, there is a failure point of every biz. No biz can last forever.
We all gonna die one day 'tho we all do not wanna die.

Yes, the entire system will collapse if it runs out of suckers that keep pumping in money in the pyramid.
Likewise, all biz will kick the bucket if there is no customer buys their product / service.

Firstly, my concern is how long this Swisscash can run? 3 years? 5 years? I think it's meant to be short run.
When will it run out of suckers?
We have to know the market size. We have to know the market demand.
How are we going to determine the actual market size? We can't determine it if there is repeating repeat purchase.
X repeat purchase = X market size.

Secondly, I'm wondering the market reach.
After 2 years in operation, these Swisscash opportunists have not reached my door and talk to me face to face about this Swisscash.
I wonder what they do to sustain such pyramid for 2 years? And it's still running strong underground.
This is especially Malaysia is not a rich country. We do not have huge population. And many people do not believe in this cepat-kaya scam. How they do it?
One possible reason is, they can sustain the flow of money in a circle for a short period. They do not really have to reach every corner of market to sustain the biz.

Thirdly, you talk about payout. Who should pay the money?
By the logic, the money is from new recruits.
Let's say a sucker pumps in 3K and he gets back 9K (or 300%) upon maturity.
Let's look at the breakdown of payout.
- 100% is the capital payment (amount is 3K)
- 80% from new recruits. (amount is 2.4K)
-120% from the company (amount is 3.6K)

Assuming the maturity period is 7 months.
If it's 3K investment, by hook or by crook Swisscash will have to generate 3.6K (120%) in 7 months.
Is it possible to generate 120% in 7 months? Yes, why not? There are many underground activities that have high profit (few hundred% profit), such as pirated DVD/VCD, pirated software, shark loans, garment etc.
The scam does not require 300% from new recruites. IMO, 50-80% from new recruits could sustain the biz.

I would rather like to know the market demand. If there is demand, there is no way to fail.
I would rather like to know the market size & the market reach. It determines how far it can go & how long it can last.

*** Invest in the right time & right place - shoot it to the core. ***

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Added on April 6, 2007, 12:26 pmI'm not interested in the turnover of No1 guy in Swisscash.

I would like to know your turnover. And how do you see the market?
How much do you sell a month? What's your sales turnover?
Can you tell me how many people have joined Swisscash as of todate (just estimate lah)? How long have you been joining Swisscash?

This post has been edited by ALeUNe: Apr 6 2007, 12:36 PM

Actually there's a big difference here in the 2 that you're describing. Such schemes rely purely on new investments. The lack of new investments or new business when put in the sense of a normal business will be the equiv of the business not growing, not kicking the bucket. There will still be the existing business leads to sustain the company.

Well, here is where our opinions differs. You are of the opinion that part of the income is based upon investment activities (whatever sort), while I'm of the opinion that it is a Ponzi type scheme. Basically you have got a point in saying that there are a lot of underground activities with high returns, but think about it, those activities r usually self funded, and those running the show r not very much interested in sharing the profit with investors.

Furthermore, you're forgetting another thing here, which is the retained earnings for the jokers running the scam itself.

And well, saying that Malaysia isnt cash rich isnt exactly correct either. I wont say that Malaysia's poor, but there's still a sizable amount of liquid assets that can be moved abouts easily. In regards to the target market, basically the main target r those from the lower income group, who r desperate for money, basically the group with a high expense to earning ratio, which results in very little savings. The paycheck comes in, go buy new handphone type. This is also the group that's the most likely to believe in such easy ways to make money.

hey....buyebarrel is scam...my fren was lost money..the web site was shut down,close...many sabah fren & sarawak fren lose money...

ebarrel is confirmed close ady...
but a new programme will be come out soon on this 16 apr...

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Added on April 10, 2007, 3:00 amAny one knows egtrusts here???
It is a new programme which just started on 1 april 2007...
It have a very strong background of forex group...
It was running in few countries now...

www.egtrusts.com

PM me if any doubt...


This post has been edited by Law: Apr 10 2007, 03:00 AM

Oh shit, I think many people got burnt.
Please tell me their investment package, such as daily %, duration etc.
Share your experience here.

I heard abfund gonna kick the bucket soon. Anyone can share this as well?

Based on my observation, any underground scam that gives 2%-3% daily interest is nearly impossible to sustain the biz cycle. It's pure bullshit.

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Added on April 10, 2007, 8:56 am2-3% interest? Forget about this. It is not able to sustain in 6 months.
It's pure phucking shit.

Quit it. Save your ass. Run for your life.
Pray to God that you are no sinner. Tell Him that you gonna be good boy.

This post has been edited by ALeUNe: Apr 10 2007, 08:58 AM

http://www.moneymakergroup.com/lofiversion...124054-150.html

okay... Buyeburrel is down ... my fren cry until no tear now ...

feel sad too for those who lost the money. still the old saying, no easy money.

ya, I already warn her liao ...but she said nvm... now ? sigh ...

yes, but still ... if u not dare to lose big, u wont win big

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Added on April 10, 2007, 2:00 pmbro, becareful, those so call strong background doesn't prove anything 1...

as they are temptation to ask people join only...

This post has been edited by BoltonMan: Apr 10 2007, 02:00 PM

yaloh ... i read those Eberrel upline post, said they are biggest investment company in singapore, patroleum expert in malaysia and bla bla bla... just want u put ur money in only ... so becareful everyone. my fren get her lesson for USD 500. pity her.

Thing is, there's a world of differnce between investment and gambling. Such HYIP scams r more towards the gambling category

not really gambling ...
even u win this game, ur fren or relative will suffer for this ...
winner always is the HOST of the game.

Yes, the risk is more of gambling category.
I think gambling has shorter term and higher risk.

You can lose 1 ringgit or 1 trillion in a split second gambling.

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Added on April 10, 2007, 5:57 pmLet me rephrase this - all people who lose money will suffer. No?

It's like gambling. Not exactly gambling.
It's like 4D. Not exactly 4D.

Many people bet millions dollar in 4D. Only few of them can win.

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Added on April 11, 2007, 11:33 amThe retained profit for the company could be 20% from below bold portion.

- 100% is the capital payment (amount is 3K)
- 80% from new recruits. (amount is 2.4K) 20% retained profit
-120% from the company (amount is 3.6K)

This post has been edited by ALeUNe: Apr 11 2007, 11:33 AM

about ebarrel, i heard that after 15 April,everything will be as usual..

hopefully....because i just invest 1k USD (RM 3800) last 2 weeks...several days before we cant enter the member site and then..."page not found"

hopefully...or...hopeFooly...i dun know...

I heard it's gonna new company. It's not ebarrel anymore.
Just wish you good luck.

This post has been edited by ALeUNe: Apr 12 2007, 10:14 PM

page not found or can't enter the website doesn't mean it close shop...

they can just ignore all withdrawal...and let u all wait...

or putting message like under maintenance

as i know from forum, one of those hyip is hosted on a linux server that charged only usd 1 a month

what i really want to stress here is HYIP is a gamble n scam not investment which is just a gimmick. and a scam is a scam no matter when, how or where you get scammed.

i know alot ppl have profitted from those HYIP BUT...BUT i would say those ppl who goin to lose their money in the future will be more than those profitted from it...

i have alot of frens joining all this HYIP and so far alot scammed by this buyebarrel n solidinvestment if u guys still can remember. i feed bad for them. i understand that which human in the earth not greedy. everybody try hard to find shortcut... same like some of u said above...so many ppl buy 4d but not all can strike some can strike. this is a gamble not investment. gamble and investment is two different term but highly related since it requires risk.

there r few times my fren managed to persuaded me to join and im kinda exciting listening to their explanation n i think if they could use the skill and apply to their sales executive job i think they can get alot of sales commisioin but after a moment of excitement n etc, i never fork out single cents to these HYIP

those who profitted from HYIP is like those r lucky enough to strike 4d n those who lose their $$$ after the company run away is like they buy 100 big n small on 1234 but it came out 1233. i understand this fact BUT like so many ppl said...money wont come easy. easy come easy go but if it comes the hard way n go the easy way u will learn to manage yr finance.

this is not a place to praise the HYIP... if u earn from it, just feel lucky n dont brag bout it. i dont think i will feel proud if i dont earn it the hard way. n u think those ppl who earn it the 'dark/side' way, they feel proud or they live like 'cannot see the day (cantonese)'

*sigh* money spoils humanity

lol.. show some proof of company first. if the public really can become the company share holder or invest on it.. why they would do it over the website? real investment need Identity proof and sign a contract for real.

investor usually need to look at the business plan, how to generate profit, history, due diligence info, etc etc before invest.

This post has been edited by jong52yuara: Apr 13 2007, 09:47 PM

Danny,

Have you got your money back?
I heard buyebarrel has revived. They call themselves, investebarrel.