The problem is that people in lowyat in general are not civilized enough to hold a conversation  with people with ideas that contradict theirs. My other account was banned just because I have dared to say something that contradicts what was being said over here.

If bitcoin was so massively cheap last year why didn't you buy them. In fact if you had bought them last year, you may not even be chatting with me here. In fact you should have bought them when bitcoin first incepted.

Problem is are people actually using those technologies. Most probably not. 90% of the people probably just bought bitcoin because it's sound cool, the technology looks cool and the price has been shooting up recently. As you stated, the only thing that is supporting the price is the confidence of the technology which is the decentralized nature of the coin. Well there are also many great technologies that are cheap or free for example email etc. As I mentioned previously Amazon aws is something that increases the profitability of an application but yet is not as costly as bitcoin. Just like anything else there is no reason for a technology to be expensive unless the technology provides convenience and extra profitability. So my question here is what is then preventing bitcoin from becoming zero. I mean you guys say that fiat is worth nothing. Then why would crypto which is in the end is just bits be worth so much more? Yes it's backed by blockchain but then it's only bits that's alll.

Why would you want your financial transaction to be transparent in the first place. Is it not my right for outsiders not to interfere in my business?already more and more cryptocurrencies are created. So your argument that government cannot create more cryptocurrencies is moot. Cryptocurrencies are no different then a more complex version of gaming money. Your understanding of the utility of bitcoin is not even correct. Reason why I compared crrypto with laptop or phone is those 2 items represents the added value of technology.

Price manipulation happens all of the time. That is why there are cartels that collude together to direct the price to a particular direction. It happens in all commodities and even finanical instruments like interest rates. You are obviously oblivious to this.

You really do not know how finance work. The reason why people are willing to invest in a share that does not give dividend is because of their confidence that the company will grow and thus the price of the stock will grow with it.you are obviously blind to see that gold is being manipulated. But nvm.

More like those millions just want to make a quick profit that's all. Your assumption is that there is no manipulation of prices. Hello. Anything that is subjected to exchanges can be manipulated.

Hope you are not naive to not realize that when the merchants accept bitcoin they will immediately convert those bitcoins to USD. Also I believe that items that are being charged in bitcpons is going to be more expensive.

I noticed at the same time this account posted here there's another account in kopitiam that post almost the same thing and also the same behaviour. I guess it's operated by the same person.

It's funny how people who used to be or even who are gold advocates suddenly move to the other camp.

Pertaining to gold. Since you ask. Well. It's a similar question as to the value of say a handicapped human being. Is the life of a handicapped human being less then the life of an abled human being The answer from a moral standpoint is no. The life of a handicapped human being is just as much as an abled one. Why? Because intrinsically value of life is important no matter what state. Similarly. Intrinsically gold has been recognized since the beginning of history to be valuable. Any thing shiny has been associated with valuable. Why? Well it's just how it is.

Strangely, I am not able to find your original post anymore, but I managed to copy it from another forummer's reply.
Anyway, I don't know which thread you were banned from as you mentioned above, but I think the reason your other account was banned was not because you gave opposing views, but more likely the way you presented them. Opposing views and debates are encouraged, but if you did it in a confrontational and/or condescending way (such as calling people uncivilised), that doesn't help the community and is generally not well accepted.
For someone who (I hope) is trying to engage in intelligent debate, you sure make an awful lot of assumptions......anyway let me see if I can do this point by point, to make it easier to read. (Others might be able to benefit from it too)

1. How did you come to the conclusion that I didn't buy any bitcoin last year? Just because I am still involved in this forum thread? That's a weird correlation. In fact, since you mentioned, yes I did actually buy bitcoin last year. My entry price was actually in the mid 3 digits. But that has absolutely nothing to do with my presence in this forum. I started this thread for community awareness and sharing. And no, I did not buy bitcoin since its inception, simply because I didn't even know about it then. Email was invented in the 1970s, but I'm pretty sure you didn't start using it until 20 years later. Why? Same reason.

2. I thought I already answered this, but anyway, YES people are already using this technology. Distributed ledger technology, and the blockchain application, is already being used by many governments, private companies, universities, etc. around the world. Bitcoin simply pioneered it. Cryptocurrencies are currently the single largest usage for distributed ledger, and most likely will continue to be so. You can use it in your everyday life, from buying food, drinks, groceries, electronics, to buying a car or house, even pay school fees. But of course, that depends on where you are. As with any disruptive technology, adoption will take time, and it will probably take many more years before bitcoin achieves true global widespread adoption. I do agree with you that many people (I never quote actual hard numbers...... you said 90%, I'm not sure where you got that number from) do buy bitcoin simply for investing and trading, but as adoption becomes widespread enough, more and more people will incorporate it into their daily life as an actual currency.

3. By drawing a comparison to Amazon AWS, you seem to have confused bitcoin with blockchain technology. Distributed ledger and the blockchain technology itself, is completely FREE. Just like email. The bitcoin protocol code is actually released as open source and anyone can download a useable, binary version of the bitcoin core software on GitHub. What people are paying thousands of dollars for, is the bitcoin units themselves. These are the actual units of value, for the exchange of goods and services. People are not paying for the technology. They are paying to buy the digital currency, just like you would when you change MYR to USD at the money changer. The Amazon AWS is a cloud computing service. Not even a close analogy.

4. Nobody is saying that fiat is worth nothing. And there is nothing to prevent bitcoin from going to zero. If tomorrow, everyone in the whole world mutually agrees that bitcoin is absolutely worthless and not even one single person wants to buy bitcoin, then bitcoin's price will be worth absolutely zero. We all know this from the beginning. What's your point here?

5. You misunderstand the concept of transparent transactions. The concept of a distributed ledger is that each and every transaction is transparent and recorded in an immutable historical record (the ledger). In the case of bitcoin, every single transaction, starting from the first ever bitcoin transaction (the genesis block) is traceable. This is actually the foundation of the distributed ledger concept. BUT, while the transactions are transparent, the PEOPLE doing the transactions are ANONYMOUS. The parties performing transactions are merely identified by a string of hexadecimal characters, and are not traceable to real life people (which is why criminals like to use it).

6. Read my earlier post again. I never said that governments cannot create more cryptocurrencies. I said nobody can create any more bitcoins than is capped by the bitcoin protocol. There can only be a maximum of 21 million bitcoins, ever. So, the more people want to buy bitcoin, the higher the price will be. This is Finance 101. Governments can create as many types of cryptocurrencies as they want, but if nobody wants them, then they are worth nothing. For example, there is actually a Dubai Coin, which I think peaked at about USD 47 per coin at one point, but has since lost more than 90% of its value over the last 2 months. You mentioned that my understanding of the utility of bitcoin is not correct. Are you sure yours is? You keep comparing a currency to a technology.

7. This is hilarious, you said I am oblivious to the fact that price manipulation exists. Mate, that was probably the only point that I actually AGREED with you on. Read my argument analogy about the OPEC again. I already agreed that price manipulation exists. They can have insider agreements, price fixing, whatever they want. They will achieve temporary victory and the price will increase. But ultimately someone is going to get greedy and start selling more oil to get more profit. His neighbour sees that and starts selling more too, since he sees that the first person is not honoring the deal. Soon, the house of cards comes crashing down again. Same with cartels. They fix the price, but sooner or later someone gets greedy and starts to undercut the other. Same with futures, commodities, financial instruments, etc.

8. There you go again, making an assumption that I do not know how finance works. Let me ask you one thing. If a company does not pay a dividend, what exactly can a shareholder hope to profit from? How does a company's growth translate directly to a higher stock price? The simple answer is: it doesn't. If a company does not pay a dividend, then there is NO direct link between a company's growth or profit, to its market share price. None. Even if the company makes billions in profit, it means absolutely nothing to the shareholder (yes, you can argue about intrinsic value, and the share's underlying NAV, annual EBITDA, P/B and P/E ratios, etc. but really, in the simplest sense to the average Joe investor, these only really have a physical effect if the company winds up or is taken private). The ONLY real reason that the share price will go up, is because someone else is willing to buy it at a higher price. But why would someone buy it at a higher price, if he actually gets nothing at all from the company itself? Because he hopes yet SOMEBODY ELSE will buy it at a yet higher price. Or that maybe one day, the company will start paying dividends. It all comes down to human perception on potential value again. (Since it is inferred that you know more about finance than I do, I would be happy to be proven wrong here.)

9. I am curious to know why you keep saying that I assume there is no manipulation of prices? I don't think I ever said that, simply because I myself believe that there IS price manipulation. There are whales out there with extremely deep pockets who thrive on making profits by manipulating cryptocurrency prices. What I did say, was that the technology cannot be manipulated, i.e. you can't change the bitcoin protocol unless all the bitcoin miners in the world reaches a consensus and agrees to change it (which is why it took years of stalemate to reach the bitcoin fork consensus).

10. Yes, I know that merchants do immediately convert to fiat, once they receive bitcoins in payment. But again, this comes down to confidence in future potential. I am confident that one day, merchants won't have to. Twenty years ago, when my company receives emails, they are immediately printed out and kept in physical folders for filing purposes. These days, they are simply stored in the cloud, with multiple backup locations. Technology changes with time, and with that, adoption.

I'm not saying that bitcoin (or cryptocurrencies) will definitely skyrocket in value and that it's a sure-win scenario. What I am saying is that the technology is disruptive, it's making a real impact in the world, and you can see its effect by seeing how fearful governments and traditional financial institutions are of it.
The potential is there......and I want to be part of it when it changes the world.

wengherng is an uncivilized uneducated forumer?     

At where ah?  Many months ago I have a lot eth and I even store it in ledger nano.. Will I get any airdrop?

I get carried away sometimes......hehe.
Sorry you guys have to read the long posts.
I actually have not checked my Ledger, so I really don't know whether the airdropped OMG is already in.
I'm planning to just leave it there, then when I am having a particularly bad day, I'll log in and get pleasantly surprised.

Well if you think that bits are worth a few thousand dollars then be my guest.

The difference between gold and bitcoin is that at least gold is tangible. It's backed up with history and even now it's a important tool when it comes to world policy. The amount of gold in a country vault tells a sign as to how much political power this country has. The thing is for gold no matter what you do it will never lose its power as something that is important in the economic sense as well as in the political sense.

Often times there are pretenders that come along like bitcoin and you see what happens. I mean tulip were valued high once upon a time and look what happened.

I asked a simple question once and till now I have not received an appropriate answer. If bitcoin goes to zero what will be the justification that it's not zero? The thing is anything in this world there must be a backing. For bitcoin how much is your blockchain worth intrinsically?

In the end those bits are just worth nothing because those bits are not generating income. They are not tied to anything physical. They do not serve at all currently to better our lives etc. Granted they do make say transaction transparent but them is this something really ground breaking? Well. Many financial institution probably is already doing that. I mean tell me which part of bitcoin cannot really be implemented from a financial standpoint except for say distributed ledger part.

The other thing I would like all of you to consider. Even for credit card there is a massive increase in the amount of features. I dun see credit card being ground breaking . the cost for credit card is zero. In fact most finance institution pay you to get a credit card.

Wonder who is the real man behind that account?   

I wish I could have joined it when I was introduced about bitcoin 3 years ago when it was $30.00

When my friend told me about bitcoin, the first word I replied him " must be money game coin again"... and ignored.

Last time no luno yet (bitrex)?

Gold can go to zero. Wow. Guess you guys have really gone mad. But this is what happens when people get deluded. Even the most ardent bankers or keysenian economist would not ever made a statement like you saying that gold can go to zero or 10. You have gone even 1 level above them. This is what delusion can cause to a person.

Well. Those are the same arguments that the bankers and the elites use. So what effect does it actually cause to Gold. If those were the arguments that can be used against gold, gold would have been subdued a long time ago. There are things in the world that are just intrinsically valued. You can imagine that gold is worth zero. You can imagine that you can survive without air. It will still not change a thing. That was the part I was trying to explain but you do not seem to get it. Gold is being valued not because humans valued it at this price, it's valued because intrinsically it is supposed to be this way. Even a baby would probably look at gold and know that it's precious. Because it was supposed to be meant that way.
Good luck convincing the rest of the world to pay 5k, 10k or 100k for bits and bytes, you are really going to need it.

Thanks for the input! Maybe i'll wait for awhile more 

Btw, what does the confirmation 1/2 mean?

And from the image, the last address is my Bittrex wallet address with 0.18292 BTC deposit.

What are the purposes for the other addresses in my transaction? 

Wow. This kind of argument comes out. I will not even bother to answer this.

Incredible.

I pay for my internet because my main goal is to access the services and convenience that the internet provides. The internet provides me with information, entertainment and many other things.

The computer allows me to do my work, access the internet, play games and many other things.

Mobile phone similar.

Telco similar.

Really signs of mania popping up.

Please let me know why Mt gox collapsed

Will be back maybe 1 month later. Nothing to argue about and I am just trying to warn from what I know before it happens. Of course I might be wrong. I can just wish good luck if you still think that Bitcoin is a good investment.

Please let me know why Mt gox collapsed

Yeah, I agree your post and why this community so many petty guy cannot tahan when someone try to warn. I think I am just telling what I know about Chinese Regulatory and full of insult come out. I believe it is just an advice about coming uncertainties with a highly great impact.

Got forumer here stake rise coin??

Lol why so little. Anyway the returns okay ah?? Compared to the likes of ark or nav.