Present FL Camry 2.0 is actually new dual VVTI 6AR-FSE with D4-S direct injection mated to 6AT gearbox
Output 165ps@6500RPM
Torque 199Nm@4600RPM
(Refer local Toyota website)

That is why people still buy Camry despite boring look. New 2018 Camry will use this new engine carry forward along with its 6AT gearbox.

Toyota has turbo but prefer giving something practical with ease of maintenance. If new Camry giving us the 2.5L non-hybrid 2AR-FSE with 8AT priced at rm170k, people will go for Camry for the good fuel saver with little power than uncertain future Optima.

Correction: this Optima GT is as old as the Sonata LF that was already revealed in 2014 and launched in Korea followed by America. We get Sonata LF only in early 2015. Optima only released here after more than 2 years, going to be 3 years where Sonata new rise 2018 is about to replace Sonata LF. Which means Optima too will come up with replacement as answer to new Camry 2018.

Before Volvo was sold to Geely China, the Ford ecoboost dual VVT and Mazda SVT technology already available. You said Volvo high FC by judging from Ford and Mazda older generation engine seems inaccurate.

The Camry didn't take long to release in Malaysia and Thailand. Quite on time, same goes to Honda and now Mazda also on time already. Instead, Korean end up like Nissan, launch new models only when about to phase out and keep selling old models.

If new rise Sonata 2018 is to release this year, then new rise Optima will release few months later. Just mere redesign is easy. Looks like Hyundai took wrong move adopting the old fish head design that was dropped few years ago. Fish head design was in the old Elantra 2007 that was later renamed to Avante and it's little brother Accent 2007. New Sonata obviously look like 1. Hope new 2018 Optima doesn't do that.

Which Ford model did you compare to Optima GT? The Ford Fusion (Mondeo) 2.0T? Both are tuned for power, that's why fuel guzzling in which I have pointed out earlier.

Replied to @Ginny88 as well.

Camry 2018 2AR-FSE engine could get 206hp with good fuel consumption is considered really good. Can you point out any similar price car 2.5L that generates 206ps without sacrificing high fuel usage? You get the new Camry, you don't have to worry about intercooler leakage that leads to overheating issue or inefficient turbo assist (power loss) or service the turbo set at interval, clogging, etc.

New Accord 1.5T will sure sell far better than Optima GT mainly because it provided safe long term ownership. New Camry if 2.5L NA engine available could sell well because of cheaper maintenance and best reliability over long term ownership.

Compared to buying Optima GT under lousy failed marketing and management, car not selling well followed by less spare parts being brought in due to just few or almost none on the road. If current distributor dumped this brand and new distributor take over, their SC doesn't cover older models service. Then owners will have no expert technical support. Some more this Optima got so much electronic, you don't expect outside Ah Chong or Ah Meng workshop can fix properly

At low end, the 2.5L engine has more torque. Those opted 2.5L Camry or Mazda 6, they get silky smooth engine unlike turbo that gets sudden surge when needed extra torque. Some dislike turbo because it requires more attention on maintenance when old.

Talking about FC, tell me how much is a Camry and Accord 2.4L or mazda 2.5L compared to Mondeo 2.0T or Pug508 1.6T at similar age? The Japanese T, H & M even beat Korean D segments 2.0L in resale value.

New Accord 1.5L has torque of 2.4L or 2.5L strength. It needs the extra strength only to pull it around without feeling lethargic as substitute to 2.4L. It is tuned for FC, not power. I see number of present Accord 2.4L driven by those in 30's also, you call them old? You think so many 20's that rich that they can easily buy D segment? If car price here like America, then sure many young people will buy D segments because they want to ferry parents around comfortably.

Kia was under C&C if not mistaken when it started here. Because it can't sell and making losses, they gave up and withdrawn. A company shareholders won't sell a car that failed to sell whether the fault lies in their own employees or principal.

Japanese cars like Toyota and Honda, they will always have spare parts and technical expertise to solve electronic or any crazy issues. Korean cars when they make high losses that they can't afford to provide good after sales, who is going to fix all the difficult technical problems?

Specs of new Camry 2.5L NA engine not yet announced, where did you get the info Camry 2.5L engine gets peak torque at 5000rpm? There are few Toyota models using 2AR-FSE engine, is that taken from some tuner models aimed at high rev? Mazda 6 is impressive car, that's why I bought it's brother Mazda 3.

Mazda already been using GDI since 2012 in Mazda 6 Skyactiv, I don't see such problem that you mentioned. Instead, I saw Sonata YF stalled at highway near ramp to Danau Desa in 1 evening near 3 or 4pm.

You didn't read my comment properly before replying? Poor sales led to very few to almost no owner on the road. SC gets business also affected, spare parts brought in less or none at all. When seriously lacking funds, could end up hiring unqualified mechanic until not able to fix sophisticated electronic and mechanical parts. This is main point why people avoid Korean cars nowadays.

Toyota and Honda sales so good with SC business so good. You don't even worry about SC no spare parts or no tech expertise to fix the Camry.

This post has been edited by jayraptor: Jun 24 2017, 11:04 PM

Put aside taken for preowned sales, registered for own test unit, subsidiary company fleet vehicles, how many brand new were bought by individual private registration by the way? Not many. Hyundai sales mostly from stared. In May, Kia beats Hyundai because they secured 1 fleet vehicles deal for sports event.

Last year, my friend said he mentioned few times Subaru would overtake the 2 Koreans. So how come his prediction so accurate that it really happens now as per screenshot? I believe he even mentioned VW will quick to overtake both Koreans too when the new vento and polo fitted with DSG launched. That time was when Koreans celebrating and claiming their success in beating VW.

Ford only relies on ranger to survive. Its saloon cars sales are abandoned because of useless marketing people, x boleh harap type. So Korean marketing find this a success too? Both Koreans just launched at 3 models each yet sales still poor and only to cover up with own fleet sales.So next 2 months Hyundai will overtake Kia back. Both just play chasing each other? Koreans better pray Toyota and Honda don't come up with Starex rival. A large multipurpose van customisable for people or goods carrier like Starex enjoy commercial vehicle tax rate.

So you said Koreans don't need good Strategist which is why their sales so bad? Last time they were at number 6 & 7 spot just behind Nissan when they received free spoon-feeding from me and my members. We'll see for how long they can sustain. FYI, the spot both Korean brand at now are already bottom just above brands that are already dead in local non+luxury market. Few more months can check again. As per Japanese King Strategist spotters survey these past few weeks, Korean showrooms quiet like no new model being launched at all while neighbouring Japanese brands showroom gets far more customers. Mazda and Toyota haven't release any new models still get numbers of customers and bookings. in overall, Korean brands have actually dropped to more spots further from previous #14/15 to #15/16. You happy with this?

This post has been edited by jayraptor: Jun 25 2017, 02:58 PM


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If they really give that much discount on old stock or preowned, at least they still can sell. You refer Shortage that threw more discount than that, you don't see any on the road other than near distributor and its subsidiaries offices.

We look at 2017 cars & SUV sold with 2017 number plate. Subaru, VW, Hyundai, Kia all claimed 300 units a month at least. At areas like malls, office, shops, parks , entertainment outlets, we can still see new Subaru XV, Forrester, VW Vento, Passat, Polo, Jetta there driven by someone ferrying family members, friends or just alone. But then the Korean cars & SUV with 2017 plates, they are rarely seen on the road except near related companies areas. Surveyors only spotted 1 or 2 Korean cars driven by individual hanging out with family members.

Forte when launched in dec'09, in January 2010 there were just few hundred sold that time and we can see them on the road like Subaru today. If there are 300 + 300 both Korean cars combined in the few months in 2017, by right should be more than forte in January 2010 on the road driven by individual owners. Wonder where are the Korean cars driven by individual owners?

This thread is open to everyone to debate, discuss and LYF talk for free. What people posted on negative perception, cons, situations, if Korean marketing failed to debate or solve these issues, then the Koreans are not going to win.

If you're unhappy with people posting facts on current situation in reality world, then why are you here replying those who were posting their comments in the first place? Since you're here, care to explain where are the new Cerato 2017 if you strongly disagree Kia sales beat Hyundai in May 2017 is not from the fleet sales to sports event organiser? Also for Hyundai (excluding Starex), where are the ioniq, Tucson 2017 bought by individual private owner?

Japanese King Strategist team of spotters and surveyors been monitoring Koreans activities since December 2016. Reported that the number of viewers and buyers statistics are far less than the monthly sales. Can you comment on this? Also the cars at SC, the number of 2017 cars sent in by individuals aren't many compared to the monthly sales figures released by AAM, They don't need to service?

2AR-FSE is indeed new engine on same batch as 2.0L GDI 6AR-FSE engine, both first fitted in the FL Camry. Both are fuel efficient engine with descent strength. As long as new Camry not release no one can confirm the performance specs.

Mazda is good, that's why I bought after selling off forte followed by Santa. Ever since I stopped aiding the Koreans end of 2013 gradually and stopped early 2014, they just keep deteriorating with sales began slumping that indirectly affecting my Santa's TV. Worst thing happened ever since they angered my members that were supposed to lend a helping hand if they are hired in early 2015 that they went personal.

When people said car broken down, why did you twist elsewhere to irrelevant tyre puncture, ran out of fuel, radiator, etc. Are you saying Sonata YF 2012 prone to radiator or water pump faulty with short lifespan that could last only 5 years? Is that why when people post question over Elantra thread same car & engine in DCT vs CVT which is fuel saving, you replied irrelevant answer on driving conditition on light or heavy foot.

A car with messed up wiring, apart from authorized SC with enough qualified engineers, don't expect SC that can't afford to hire qualified engineers or Ah Chong Ah Meng workshop can fix. If things are that easy, there won't be so many cases of cold door car with no spare parts where owners have to live with half fixed car without technical expert to help. Worst thing, spare parts have to import taking 1-2 months to receive and subject to high tax, shipping cost then got cut throat by workshop. Most imported parts tumpang Singapore order via middleman that markup further on price. Imagine Starex can have no technical spare part case having to import and wait almost a month. Now Optima GT with almost zero sales some more, who dare to buy?

Buy Passat, spare parts guaranteed available. Buy Optima, worry on spare part due to very poor sales volume. SC automatic order less parts, so are outside spare parts supply chain.

Hyundai Kia marketing are very desperate for sales nowadays, they perceive VW and Subaru as arch rivals now,. That's why always attack with irrelevant old issues. Conti driving feel and handling are superb, 2nd to none.

My friend did pull over and asked. Car engine died due to electronic issue, not sure the cause. Battery, temperature no problem, drove off then while the unlucky Sonata owner waiting for tow truck.

Your reply to @chongkiatz everyone knows how you step on the pedal affects FC. His question is like Latio 1.6L fitted with conventional 4AT here vs Singapore Latio 1.6L with CVT, which will save more fuel when both are driven by same person and driving style.

Messed up wiring also you don't know ? Do you know that car that is old, you plug in diagnostic tool can't get you proper reading? At worse, can't even tune. So if the SC only afford to hire unqualified mechanic that only gets training, if he doesn't know how to find fault and lacks engineering knowledge, ends up asking you to change wrong parts. If no spare part need to order and wait type, you could end up sending the car to workshop several times without the actual cause being solved.

This is why people prefer Toyota, Honda coz they have SC and engineers on standby. Even the worst case scenario, you can get experts to save your car. Not left stranded on your own.

I saw new VW Tiguan and Subaru Forrester with latest plate driven by private owners throughout raya celebration several times. But where are the new Korean cars that claimed selling higher figures this past few months of 2017 before losing out in May? I can still see new Subaru when they made 300 units sales a month back then.

@throx

Regarding your question over Elantra thread, I've mentioned the answers several times. Korean marketing went off track plus offensive strategies from my friend have driven people away from whatever Korean cars that are sold. I believe you have seen yourself, not just Elantra, you don't see Ioniq, Cerato, etc bearing new 2017 plates.

At the other hand, the new Tiguan that was launched recently, you should have seen few on the roads driven by real owners alone or ferrying family members around. This tells the dumb failed Korean marketing staff that people still buy cars. The more expensive over rm100k Tiguan, Subaru XV, Forrester still get buyers despite economic slowdown. Wonder who are they kidding when their meeting report said downturn time, people only buy B segment below rm90k ?

As per both sides Korean marketing staff, both are now accusing each other of bringing down Korean cars. Since Cerato 2.0L and Elantra 2.0L are priced at rm120k before throwing similar high discount in price war, which will you buy?

Elantra 2.0L nu engine tuned for torque
Output 152ps@6200rpm
Torque 192Nm@4000rpm

Cerato 2.0L nu engine tuned for power
Output 161ps@6500rpm
Torque 194Nm@4800rpm

This post has been edited by jayraptor: Jun 29 2017, 11:31 PM


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Apart from this photo and area nearby distributor related office and subsidiaries, you ask anyone, most will say never seen such car. If there is, that is quite rare case. Funny thing is, they reported better sales but brands that are sold at their level seems to have more on the road. Take the expensive luxury level Volvo that sits 2 levels behind the 2 Korean brands, the chance of seeing Volvo XC90 on the road is way higher. Volvo selling at 90 units a month can have more than year 2017 Cerato, sorento, sportage combined on the road? Something not right like this


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Canbus you're referring is that network server style electronic fitted into cars nowadays. Already been around more than 10 years already, BMW, Mercedes already have them earlier. Do you really think this network really more durable and lasting than simple well protected wiring? You go ask experts that have worked on this, they'll tell you the same fault as old messed up wiring when old. Mechanic that lacked electronic background and experience will have hard time solving the irritating issues.

If your story on Honda Civic having to wait for parts is true despite having secured after sales, then you want people to expect a dying brand with poor sales volume which led to poor after sales and spare parts could act quicker? Korean brands can't solve existing and old problem, now want to sell hybrid, GDI engine, DCT gearbox some more? Those marketing staff personally won't buy Korean cars but bought Japanese cars. Now they pandai2 want to convince people to buy Korean cars? What a joke.

Uhmm... The spotters and surveyors that move and look around said they saw more 2017 registered Subaru Forrester and recently launched VW Tiguan than Cerato, Ioniq, sportage. In not biased, just posting what I saw and based on reports taken from that King Japanese Strategist team survey.

Quite true, we're seeing people buying descent Japanese's cars at that price already. Those really into handling and performance went for VW and Volvo. Poor Korean strategies & wrong product planning failed to draw people into buying Korean cars. People care more on fuel consumption, safe long term ownership and spare parts more.

Btw, between Elantra and Cerato, which will you choose if you wanted C segment 2.0L and why?

This first Volvo s60 has been around since 2002 and the few owners I knew, their old s60 still running strong today. Can you list out the problem with these Volvo here precisely?

VW passat roof lining coming off? Only that? As long as spare parts and technical expertise available, why worry? People are more concern on no spare part caused by poor sales volume more. If not because my buddies are working in Japanese car company, I'll sure post lots of real facts here on VW, Volvo vs Optima GT. Passat 2.0 if priced at rm180k vs Optima GT, the Optima loses on performance and handling, also the ride over bumpy road.

This post has been edited by jayraptor: Jul 3 2017, 07:46 AM


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You forgot that I owned 2 Korean cars before selling off in 2015? Why kept bring older Korean models from my spoon-feeding era for example when people are referring the newer models that failed to sell? Everyone's questions here on the newer Korean models launched 2015 onwards that are sold in such poor volume. Sales volume poor until so rarely seen on the road, you think distributor and spare part shop will stock in ample amount of spare parts?

Your post on Passat spend a week in workshop every year tells that you're making up story. Go do proper homework before posting, easily kantoi if VW owners and technicians saw your comment. FYI, the polo 1.2T 2010 first batch owner with DSG gearbox only enter workshop 2 times mostly to replace the faulty part caused by incompatibility to our weather for free. That's all I can tell you as my buddies forbid me from saving the VW so that Japanese brands dominate.

The spec on new Cerato 2.0L in my post was taken from brand new Cerato brochure as attached. So are you saying the specs on brochure of new Cerato is lying or wrong?

Since when did I mention Korean Nu engine has turbocharged in any of my post? Even in another threads, I didn't mention anything about engine code of any turbocharged engine. Are you too eager and desperate to win? Few pro Korean supporters would have replied on the spot to claim some victory if there is any. Pay attention and read before you reply.

Here's a challenge for you. Numbers of pro Korean supporters kept bashing present Camry FL using old engine and gearbox but got debunked when I showed them the Camry 2.0 and 2.5 are fitted with new direct injection 6AR-FSE & 2AR-FSE engine with 6AT & CVT gearbox respectively. Then how come they never said Optima GT using old theta 2.0L engine that has been around since 2005? Some more that theta engine has recall news in America on stalling issue? Is the Optima GT actually older than Veloster turbo which is why it doesn't get DCT gearbox? For example Kia Koup 1.6T has same engine as Veloster 1.6 turbo but fitted with 6AT because it is older. New Elantra 1.6Turbo is newer so it gets DCT right?

This post has been edited by jayraptor: Jul 3 2017, 11:10 PM


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As usual, Korean fans took simple error to win. Now you brought this up, I got gift for you.

I40 is powered by 2.0 Nu GDI natural aspirated engine. Sonata LF, Tucson, Shortage 2.0L are powered by Nu MPI. If Optima 2.0L non-turbo being brought in, it'll be Nu engine. It's not unusual if I mistakenly typed Nu instead of older theta in Optima GT.

The Nu engine is designed to replace the old theta engine in 2011. So why is the Optima GT 2.0T is still using the old Theta engine instead of Nu engine that is supposed to be the successor? Is the Nu engine not better than Theta engine?

Theta 2 engine only around for 2 years here and replaced by Nu mpi. Then suddenly there's short-lived i40 Nu 2.0L GDI. Now suddenly Optima GT is using different Theta 2.0 GDi engine. With so many different engine yet with different heads even if same engine name, this creates confusion for technician/mechanic in future as more varieties of parts required since they cannot share parts. Your comment helps me think of this and shared amongst my members with Japanese company. TQ...

Walk in customer that come to test drive, the details they get are the specifications on brochures. You think they will suspect the details are fake and go online to check? Only those enthusiast will.