Autosurf Dota Tournament UPDATE

10:00 a.m. (Winners)
1. Fz vs Rebirth (Rebirth)
2. [ONE3 vs AT (AT)
3. FTZ vs SxN (FTZ)
4. lornx vs MaD (lornx)
5. STDN vs Farmerz (Farmerz)
6. SN vs Trega's Fault (Trega's Fault)
7. Zion-Fish vs vs Underdogs (Zion-Fish)
8. SMKK vs LAM (SMKK)


12:00 a.m./p.m.
1. W4sl vs Ice sWt (Ice sWt)
2. Forbidden City vs [WavE 1] (Forbidden City)
3. Rebirth of Losers vs [Gs] (Rebirth of Losers)
4. DNA-RPC vs Ice2 (Ice2)
5. cRazy vs LITE cRazy
6. GP vs [WavE 2] (GP)
7. STDN-3 vs MNG (MNG)
8. D79N vs Blizz (Blizz)

2 p.m.
1. CT RoA vs Rebirth (CT RoA)
2. PX vs AT (PX)
3. Wizz 2 vs FTZ (Wizz 2)
4. Chaos vs lornx (lornx)
5. DNA-SK vs Farmerz (DNA-SK)
6. GAMEBOX vs Zion-Fish (GAMEBOX)
7. MKVL vs SMKK (MKVL)
8. Ice nD vs WB (Ice nD)

4 p.m.
1. Autosurf-Dh vs Trega's Fault (Autosurf-Dh)
2. Auto-Eternals vs Rebirth of Losers (Auto-Eternals)
3. Cybertime vs GP (Cybertime)
4. Wizz1 vs MNG (Wizz1)
5. Blizz vs Crazy (Blizz)

First and Second round completed.

UDMN AutoSurf Final Bracket First Round
 UDMN_AutoSurf_Final_Bracket_Original__updated_.rtf ( 41.79k ) Number of downloads: 495


Rules in a glance :

All matches will be on alternate All Pick mode (-AP Draft , 1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1)

The team who wins the coin toss will choose only one of the following:
(1) Host the game and gets to choose either Sentinel or Scourge side of the map to start
(2) Be the team that chooses the first hero.

The version that will be used for the duration of the tournament will be DotA Allstars v6.41

No pooling, no sharing, no borrowing, no ally control. ONLY consumable items can be shared i.e tango,flask,clarity,observer and sentry ward,town portal.

Backdoor is allowed

All items are allowed, however Arcane Ring is only allowed to one hero.


All heroes are allowed

No Exploitation of any known old or new bug discovered during play. Explanations like "exploiting/activating the bug unknowingly", "we had no idea this bug existed" or similar excuses will not be entertained. Participants/Teams are expected to know what these are.


Seedings

A total of 43 teams participated as of time of writing. The seedings are done as per request by Odin. It is based on my opinion on which 8 teams deserved to be in the quarterfinals based on past tournament results.

1st Cybertime ROA
ROA had a fantastic record prior to this tournament. They are unbeaten in all LAN tourneys since November last year until recently got their streak ended by Mkvl at The Mines tourney. Still , their consistency over the past few months merits them a first seed at this tournament.

2nd Mkvl
Mkvl is a relatively new team in the competitive scene. Their meteoric rise to prominence is no short of a miracle by any standards. Constantly matching traditional top teams in training matches, it is a surprise on their lack of appearance of even a semifinal spot in most tournaments held. They proved their worth in The Mines tourney by beating Auto-Dh and ROA on their way to their first ever title. Can they continue their good run at Autosurf ? We shall see.


3rd-4th SK and Wizz
After virtually dominating the competitive scene in 2006 in which SK was champions at the SMM RM30k tournament and Wizz won WCG 2006 , both teams struggled to produce their best form lately. Roster changes has been made to both teams since their eventful wins, strengthening their individual skills department but is it at a cost to overall team cohesion and synergy? Only time will tell. Despite suffering in a dip in form , no team will find them easy adversaries, which warrant them 3rd-4th seedings.

5th-8th Auto-Dh , Auto-Eternals , Cybertime , Wizz 2
Both Auto teams consists of very experienced players in the scene. Auto-Eternals was also the former Px team that grabbed second place at the Point Extreme Dota Tournament. Cybertime on the other hand is a relatively new team formed and won the W2 SMMDOTA tournament with mature strategies and gameplay. Wizz 2 on the other hand is runners up at WCG 2006 and no one will underestimate their true capabilities.


Basically the seedings will prevent the top 8 seeds from meeting each other till the quarter finals, the top 4 till the semis and the top 2 till the finals.


Previews

As predictions on who will win by me is already at the evident at the seedings provided , I will just try to be a prophet now and predict what will happen strategy wise in this upcoming tournament.

By now Bristle Back (BB) is no doubt the hottest hero draft now. As shown in various tournaments, a team with BB stands a better chance to win if opponent fails to own them or even managed a draw in team kills early to mid game. After BB got its Vanguard around early-mid game, the game is practically over for the opponent. Only to stop it is mass euls or conduct a fast push to finish the game before BB actually farms out anything.
Of course, Qop and Warlock will be snapped up pretty quick by most drafters in this tournament. Their massive AOE abilities just cant be ignored.
Chen , once a must pick in 6.37 will now see a decline in its number of suitors. For so much micro, its usefulness is limited with the nerfs slapped on it in 6.41.
From replays generated lately, Viper looks more and more like a glass cannon for me. Its one dimensional play just hardly suits the needs of the game any more. With BB rising in popularity , Viper is getting redundant as a hero choice. Yeah, its soloing power is second to none , but other than that , it is hard to figure anything good beyond that

My suggestion for adventurous teams to try out are Shadow Fiend, Nerubian Assasin, Razor and Tormented Soul. All 4 heroes are buffed significantly in 6.41 in many different ways and could just be a viable choice to outdraft your opponent.
Do try out bottle too. Some western teams actually claims that bottle is actually an abuse. With bottle , gankers like Venomancer and Vs will have no need to go back fountain to regen lost health. Everything they need is in that little bottle at a relative cheap price.



Ok that's all for now. Brackets has already been done but will be posted 8 am today to provide some element of mystery to all teams. Tournament starts at 9 am so all teams be sure to get yourselves registered and ready by then. The quarterfinals may be played using double elimination format depending on the planning being done later today. But all quarterfinalists will surely be notified before they leave for home today.
Latest updates on results on replays will be posted at this thread accordingly by Odin. Hopefully I can find the time to do reviews for most of the replays posted here. As for now, time to go to bed.


Good Luck to all teams participating. Have a GG and HF competing.

Edit : RULES : ONLY consumable items can be shared i.e tango,flask,clarity,observer and sentry ward,town portal.

This post has been edited by underminer: Mar 24 2007, 05:53 PM

wheres the bracket??

The Teams Are:

01.Autosurf Dh
02.CT RoA
03.DNA-SK
04.DNA-RPC
05.Wizz1
06.Wizz2
07.MKVL
08.Autosurf2
09.Cybertime
10.Farmerz
11.Chaos
12.Trega's Fault
13.[Gs]
14.[ONE3
15.lornX
16.Rebirth
17.AT
18.[WavE1]
19.[WAvE2]
20.STDN-3
21.STDN
22.SxN
23.SMKK
24.Fz
25.wB
26.ice nD
27.ice sWt
28.ice2
29.D79N
30.FTZ
31.MNG
32.Rebirth of losers
33.w4sl
34.SN
35.Forbidden City
36.LITE
37.PX
38.LAM
39.GP
40.Zionnet-Fish
41.Underdogs
42.Mad
43.cRazy
44.Blizz
45.GameBox

The Final Bracket ( Word Pad, Ms Word)

This post has been edited by underminer: Mar 24 2007, 11:48 AM


Attached File(s)
 UDMN_AutoSurf_Final_Bracket_Original.rtf ( 41.65k ) Number of downloads: 169

.rtf? what format is that lawl :S

This post has been edited by Hell Fire: Mar 24 2007, 10:21 AM

yalo , what format is that? canot view wor

Try using word pad or ms Word to view it

Okok thanks , can ady. Any update?
ZzzZ the bracket like that 80% tomorrow the only team will attend is the seeded team

GOGOGO CT ~ MKVL ~ SK ~ WIZZ ~ GIVE ME A GOOD REPLAY !! HF !

gogo Ct.........

Results continued...

The last 16 round of matches are :

ROA vs PX
Wizz2 vs Ice sWt
lornX vs DNA-SK
Auto-Dh vs Forbidden City
GameBox vs Mkvl
Auto-Eternal vs Ice2
BLizz vs Cybertime
Wizz1 vs Ice-nD

The results and replays will be updated when all Day 1 matches are completed. Stay tuned....

IS there any New hero drafted in this tourney ? Eg Tormanted, magnus, .......

good job for da quick update, underminer

Day 1 ended , the Quarter-Finals lineup tommorow are as follows:

Mkvl vs Auto-Eternal
Cybertime vs Ice nD
RoA vs Ice sWt
DNA-SK vs Auto-Dh

Ice is fast becoming the team to watch , 2 of their 3 teams reached the Quarters in the expense of Wizz 1 and Wizz 2. Replays will be uploaded after the tournament for fairness sake. Expect to see some exciting drafts and gameplay in them.

This post has been edited by underminer: Mar 24 2007, 07:57 PM

Good Job to the above team, underminer and Autosorf


the wave from Penang is FANTASTIC


This post has been edited by Ian_Mok: Mar 24 2007, 08:53 PM

well, I think i like the 1st round of [ONE3 vs AT. It was Indo team vs China team. HAHA.. Good play by Indo team, although dey go for a fast push strat which failed, but dey can hold their enemies quick a moment.

ice = netcity? sorry, im noob

netcity now chg team jo ice lor

Underminer, can trouble u to post the result updates in SPOILER tag?

that way, those that wan to watch the replays to know the result can do so, while those that wan kno result immediately can also do so by just opening spoiler tag, win-win situation,thxx

Result

Mkvl vs Auto-Eternal ( Auto-Eternal win )
Cybertime vs Ice nD ( Ice nD win )
RoA vs Ice sWt ( RoA win )
DNA-SK vs Auto-Dh ( DNA-SK win )

This post has been edited by Ian_Mok: Mar 25 2007, 01:51 PM

RoA Kindaichi playing today ?

i am monk, let me teach u use spoiler tag , ok ?



This post has been edited by Neslo[#^PenG^#]: Mar 25 2007, 01:01 PM

he is playing today

owning,

GL RoA & IceIce Baby

Semi Final

Auto-Eternal vs Ice nD ( Auto-Eternal win )
RoA vs DNA-SK ( RoA win )

Gl HF ROA AND AUTO !! Sk lost ><

Another repeated final? =/ Just like at Point Extreme tourney.

When is the match gonna start?

Final result....
champion = Cybertime RoA
1st-runner-up = Auto eternal
2nd runner-up = Ice nd

whats the heroes lineup for the final between roa and auto

The result is same as Point Extreme tourney 1st 2nd 3rd all same =.="
BUG? lolz

This post has been edited by oneplus: Mar 25 2007, 04:26 PM

underminer....can upload the replay here please...tat matches that are really challenging and ci gek... i want to watch more... even i pick hero also lose...wth...my teams rely need more practise

organizers all go to celebrate jor, forgot post replays,

i wanna see replay i wanna see replay i wanna see replay!! T_T

congratz cT`RoA
chris ...i come so far away just to support u oh
get champion liao owe me a meal
wahahaha =x

Thank you to all participants and sponsors for making this event so happening
Special thanks for Ian Mok and Underminer for their help (they came voluntarily yes i know i kiam siap ) So i really appreciate their help because Im a noob at organising dota tourney hohoho

I will post the replays per section because the total replays are 70+ mb wow!

Finals
http://rapidshare.com/files/22711525/Autos..._Final.rar.html

3rd 4th
http://rapidshare.com/files/22712857/Autos...rd_4th.rar.html

Semis
http://rapidshare.com/files/22714324/Autos...y_semi.rar.html

Quaters
http://rapidshare.com/files/22717523/Autos..._final.rar.html

Last 16
http://rapidshare.com/files/22723513/Autos...ast_16.rar.html

1st round part 1
http://rapidshare.com/files/22825028/Autos..._part1.rar.html

1st round part 2
http://rapidshare.com/files/22831472/Autos..._part2.rar.html

1st round part 3
http://rapidshare.com/files/22834616/Autos..._part3.rar.html

OK heres all the replays i have enjoy

This post has been edited by Odin`: Mar 26 2007, 05:03 PM

Thanks.
Odin ftw.

oops dbl post

This post has been edited by Odin`: Mar 26 2007, 12:41 AM

hmm.... i cant dl it... dunno whether it's my problem or wat... any1 of u face da same problem as well?

I downloaded the first 4 (excluding the last 16) earlier.
Having prob downloading NOW due to excessive access. Try again later.

hmmm....2 replay have a problem...cannot read it "SemiFinal Eternal vs Ice nD" and "Final Ct.RoA vs AUTO-eternal"hope u can fix it cause....final cannot miss it

This post has been edited by CheeHoe: Mar 26 2007, 01:34 AM

the problem is the file name, they forgot to put the .w3g at the back
for example auto vs roa change to auto vs roa.w3g

oo...ic can already thx u

thx for the fast replay..
quite many teams pick rhasta in this tourney

y i cant view...it say different version...dang...

It was great experience for me ..
I had fun playing and watching !!
Hope there are more tourneys coming

This post has been edited by devildoff: Mar 26 2007, 10:05 AM

aiks, i have to wait 100++ minutes to get the replay, |||. Anyone who have finished download can email the replay to me or create another source of download, thanks

hrm odin , why dun have last 32 replay ? is it they too suck and not worth posting replay? if got pls post or send to me ... coz i wan see my frend play .. but he kena knock out on first roun T_T thanks

uploading it takes VERY long to upload zzzzz will update my list again later when it finish uploading

Hi Odin, ur team no join the GameBox tourney?

someone tell me it started today wor, did i get my news rite or the guy "lou dim" me ?

Thx replays..
hope next tourney will be more fun..
but this time tourney nothing surprise cause no team pick new hero.. no new tatic..
oni bb..
hope next tourney will more intrest!!

My team got join the tourney, we going soon liao, starting at 6 i think

Odin, i think the Gamebox organizer no surf lowyat , can u get replays from him and post here after the gamebox tourney ended?

thxx

not at gamebox today woi!! at e-arena from puchong today,tomorrow oni at gamebox,both jz play til quaterfinal means jz play 2rounds each team then qutalfinal wil continue on saturday at E-@rena

ben, u one of organizers ?

will u be posting replays after everything ended ?

how to upgrade to 1.21 =.="

go to www.cuteworms.com, should be able to figure out the rest by yrself.

Hats up to Odin, and other dedicated person for this tournament. It must be a wonderful experiences for all. Judging by the success of this event, is there any further follow-up for it? Looking forward to it.

Underminer, hurry up with the report and post it at DA.com. =)

Thanks Iblis its my 1st time hosting a competition actually, luckily i had the help of Ian mok and underminer to make it go smoothly hehe

LOL HAAHAHAH yealo i think bug weh..chill the others clan also trying to win this tournament ..congrat to winners and all participant ...

how to dl de.. dono wad web is that -.-

the version is in 1.21 rite? but my wc3 is in 1.20d how do i change it so i can watch the replay?


This post has been edited by nike236: Apr 1 2007, 12:41 PM

go to blizzard official website and download the full 1.21patch (50mb).
with condition that you cant log in to the server with same color as the sky.

lol...what if i dload both the patches... wc3 official server and (some sky thing..u know i know) install the wc3 official and watch the replay.After i finsih watching the replay...then install the (some sky server ) patch again ..would that work?

i heard ppl say that if u replace the 5 dlls files u can actually watch the replays.
Step 1
Copy game.dll , ijl15.dll, Mss32.dll, Storm.dll and w3lh.dll into a backup folder.

Step 2
Copy those 5 files from a 1.21 version and paste them to the 120e version war3 and you will be able to view the replays.

Step 3
After viewing the replays, or if you want to revert back to 120e version, copy the 5 dll files from your backup folder to the war3 folder.

I havent tested this thing but it might help

Finally finished all the important replays. Will try to give a brief summary of some of the top performers .

1) The 3 Ice teams
They are magnificent are they not? To be honest , prior to this tournament , I did not rate them high enough to even get to the second day of matches. How wrong am I. Their list of casualties in this tournament include : DNA-RPC , Wizz 1 , Wizz 2 , Cybertime 2 and DNA-SK ! Their solid teamwork and togetherness shown throughout the tournament is really amazing to watch. One could easily hear them cheer for their teammates whenever one of their teams achieved victory.
Their drafts revolve around solid lane control with time tested strategies. Tactics like Chen covering the Viper in the long lane, Warlock solo mid, Rhasta and Vs one lane are old school but are common in their play. No fancy stuffs from them, just solid game play. Skills like tp- support , hero catching , backing up and stuffs are done marvelous well courtesy of many hours of training. Even the imbalances of Bristleback are studied and applied in their drafts.
It is worth noting aside from their DNA-SK 3rd-4th placing match , all their losses came from opponents with Bristleback drafted.

2) Auto-Eternal
These guys are cunning. They seem to be able to get the drafts that are deemed "Imbalance" for that particular map version. First Qop, Chen at 6.37 and now Bristleback in 6.41. But to be honest, these guys got some pretty interesting stuff to present. I forgot the last time their Qop did not get a "Beyond Godlike" kill in their matches. It seems like a permanent fixture in their games.
Their style revolves around some great play from Qop and perfect supporting play from team mates. And of course , the abusing of imbalances in that particular version. But no wrong in doing that, as long as it wins them games. Interesting to note that RoA beat them twice in the finals of 2 tournaments by picking away their favourite heroes, namely Qop.
In the finals of this tournament although BB did not die till the very end and free farms virtually whole game, RoA managed to beat them thanks to perfect play by all of the RoA members.

3) mKvL
After winning their first title just a week prior to this tournament, expectations are high that they will go on a streak like RoA did before them. Ultimately they got undone by Auto-Eternal's Bristleback in the quarterfinals.
What they lack in flair, they filled it with solid individual skills. Although some of their ganking moves are no short of impressive, what interests me the most is their relative ease in the basic moves of farming and denying. Their main soloers seems to be able to rake up high cs in games with ease. Combined with a good sense of Dota, no team will love facing them in tournaments.
Their match against Gamebox in the last 16 match deserves special attention. Gamebox actually do have a good game there. But mKvL just managed to come out with something extra to nudge it. Highly recommended for anyone interested in this team.

4) Cybertime 2
This team deserves special credit. Nice drafts combined with experienced players make this team a deserving nemesis for any teams out there.
As far as I can remember, they are the first team to use solo Zeus very much like what Micronology did in GXL season 2. Power level to lvl 6 and the Zeus will be there to support every ganking attempt by his teammates all over the map. Under the hands of an experienced player, the Zeus actually managed to control the opposing solo hero at mid level wise. Their game against Blizz at the last 16 stage saw them picked BB and Alchemist, the very 2 heroes that is considered "imba" by most western teams. Shows their deep knowledge about the game.
Their run in this tournament was undone at the quarterfinal stage by Ice-nD. Solid play by their opponents combined with a lost of form culminated in their defeat. But no one can deny that they are on course to be one the top teams around if they continue improving.

5) Cybertime RoA
Considered by insiders to be the top team in Malaysia right now, they showed tremendous consistency no matter what drafts they use. Even the imbalances of BB does not seem to stop them from steamrolling everything in this tournament.
They intorduced POTM to their drafts at The Mines tournament. They introduced fast + split push with the Syllabear as the perfect counter to BB in this tournament. They introduced the concept of "supporting Qop" role to everyone in this tournament. Their movements, wardings, basic skills and innovative skills are better than most teams.
At one stage in their semi final match against DNA-SK, their warding actually allows them to see where all 5 opponents are with relative ease. Shows how their supporting heroes are no walkover players but are pros in their own right. One would be wise to bet them winning their next tournament they join.

6) Both Wizz teams
A disappointing outing for them. Both teams got knocked out by the Ice teams at the last 16 stage.
From their replays, they do not display higher skills worthy of WCG champions. Their constant roster changes in tournaments big and small alike are certainly costing them. Their game style are random and not as penetrating as usual. Although their main players retains most of their individual skills, their overall team play is just not good enough to beat organized teams out there. At one stage, the sand king blinks in and initiated a move while his teammates are retreating resulting in it being killed before his teammates could do anything to help. Mistakes and miscommunications like this will not get you far in high level games.

7) Auto-Dh ( now known as Auto-Dop)
Odin, organizer of this tournament leads this interesting team which comprises veterans of the game. Some of them are WCG champions of 2004 Dota category if I got my math right. A tiring ordeal at the first day of the tournament did not stop the team from defeating the Negeri Sembilan champion Forbidden City hence qualifying for the quarterfinals at day 2.
Although not as agile in the movements as most teams, they compensate that with their vast experience and detailed knowledge of the game. The Zeus in particular manages to mesmerize the game with some really nice stuffs shown.
Their quarterfinal lost to DNA-SK produced the most stunning replay of the tournament. With DNA-SK at their mercy towards the hour mark, they just could not finish them all the way. DNA-SK's bear took advantage and farmed out Threads, Radiance, Butterfly, SnY, Aegis and Heart of Tarasque and proceed to carry SK to victory.
Interesting to note that this is the only match till the finals stage that Bristleback is not picked. Nice play from both sides and just unlucky for Auto-Dh.

8) DNA-SK
The best team of 2006 is still way too strong for many in the scene. A few roster changes there and does not stop them from consistently reaching top 4 placing of every LAN tournament held. If RoA is known for their consistency in winning tournaments, SK is known for their consistency in reaching at least the semifinals of every tournament.
Style of play includes heavy map wide domination and control early on. Once the foundations are built, the opponent can only face a slow and certain death. In rare situations where they fail to control the opponent early game, their late farmers always managed to perform incredible feats of farming to carry them through.with superior item advantage. Once they managed to control their opponents in the game, watching them play as a marshall produced an endless amount of jokes. Conversations among themselves and item builds (5 blink daggers even for Viper at a game) reflects how far ahead they are skillwise compared to their opponents.


Strategy wise, this tournament introduced the imbalances the hero Bristleback. Most of the close matches is decided on which team drafted Bristleback. I remembered a first round match where the BB destroyed 4 raxes single handedly and proceed to win the game all by himself. I think its time to ban Bristleback in tournaments from now on as this hero really destroys the game.
6.41 is getting boring now. Hopefully the scene can take a gamble and move to 6.43b. I am also quite surprised that bottle usage has been at a minimum this time around. The way Icefrog creates this item, it is meant to be abused.
Ok then, that's all for now. Hope you guys enjoy the replays and provide feedback to further grow the community.

Ushhaa~ underminer strikes again.

tp the power of underminer
nice review

after the tourney v c some new face from Penang ( Ice )

i like their play style and the time they communicate with teamate
** because they talk in hokien, dam shok

lu wu xiao bo?

i just remember CS last time always hear
*PAI LANG LAI LIAO!!!*

hey odin..do u mind uploading 6.41 map dat you use for the tournament?it says dat my map doesnt match wif the replay =(

dont tell me they used the fake version that give SO MUCH gold to host! lawl!

.... because we all dunno use the keyboard...scare later msg to all people see it
so we better use talk... in hokien...haha

.... because we all dunno use the keyboard...scare later msg to all people see it
so we better use talk... in hokien...haha

eh bro odin can upload the photo here? >.<

okie i try to find 1st

I've been following the Dota scene around the world for quite some time now. Replays from Europe, US, Philippines, Indonesia, Singapore, Malaysia, Australia, you name it, I probably had watched them before. This list is compiled after watching the rather recent Autosurf tournament, and why I think Malaysians' downright arrogant and ignorance when it comes to improving.

Ok, some might say that, yeah, Malaysia's Dota community is going the right way. Meh, took them more than 3-4 months to notice that Bristleback is more than imbalanced is not much of an improvement to me. The problem is Malaysian clans are mostly too ignorant to take notice that, while certain heroes work in EU/US games, they might be applicable to the Asian scene. But no, teams scoff the ideas, listing something like "EU/US = Noobs, we = pro, therefore BB only good coz they noobs." Ignorance at the highest degree? Obviously.

Let me start my list off with a hero that most teams still pick.

Viper. Goddammit, what an embarrassment to the drafting community. What it will take for you guys to understand that this hero is already nerfed since a few versions ago and is no more than a glass cannon now. DO PEOPLE NOT KNOW THAT VIPER SUCKS NOW? Still picking it and insisting on using items to save its ass? Come on, be smart and grow up. Train another solo hero for your own sake. Heroes like Silencer , Shadow Fiend, or whatever are much much better heroes to solo nowadays. I know you guys are not used to it but who gives a damn when you lose?

Bear. ROFL x3 kknp. Does it take a genius to figure out that this hero is virtually a useless early game now? The recent change logs renders it an OK mid to late game hero. Lvl 1-6 without entangling roots just make it so easy to die against better lane opponents. Look at Zenith vs eNe lately, Ant's bear just can't do shit against his opponents. Farming Radiance in 40 minutes doesn't help him, because he dies to like what? 3 nukes? Not to mentioned he was relegated to full time neutraling because whenever he goes to a lane he gets nuked to oblivion. He can't farm , he can't tank for the team and he just feeds in that game. Time to move on? Duh.

The Bristleback "problem". Took you guys this long to figure this one out? If you guys could just be a little more clever to log into the DA website and download their competitive Dota replays, the Bristleback problem may already be unearthed ages ago and someone would actually ban it already.

Bottle. Does anyone in Malaysia uses this now? Or you guys just do not know it existed in the first place? While I heard some teams has had some positive results using it in SCRIMS, I don't see why they refused to use it in real tournaments. Oh wait, I forgot Malaysians are NOTORIOUS for their INABILITY to DARE. CHANGE = RESISTED. HELP = SCOFFED. Lol? Looking at the better part of EU/US, they had been exploiting Bottle like mad people, almost every Shadow Fiend player gets it, almost every good team which utilize gank style heroes gets it.

Shadow Fiend. The only Shadow Fiend I saw is one that went Necromastery + Stats. =\ READ THE CHANGELOG. Shadowraze now costs a measly 75 mana at ALL LEVELS. That's potentially 900 damage for 225 mana. Imba? DUH. Not to mention BOTTLE totally solves his mana problems and gives him BOTH lane control power and ganking potential. The so-called "KING" of uber solo t3h imba Viper has no chance against a well-played Shadow Fiend. Don't believe me? Go try. Don't come around crying saying, omg j00 nub, Viper is t3h pawnzor, you nub no know how to use Viper kk. Wanna try? PM me. GGC only.

Playstyle. This one makes me fume. READ THE CHANGELOGS AGAIN PLEASE. All Icefrog did since 6.32b is to create an environment where the game ends quick. Almost every new release saw the average game play reduced due to the extra incentives for teams to push fast in every game. Western teams responded to this call , did Malaysians? Malaysians still cling onto "we wait till Skadi out on Qop at 40 min only push" mentality. Not to mention, dead towers = skadi faster. I have seen teams getting Skadi consistently at the 32-35 minute mark because his team has been pushing towers down like madmen. In case you guys are blind, Zenith was utterly destroyed by the 35th min every game against Western teams lately. So, adapt your gameplay or die clinging on to it.

If anyone has questions as to why I had said the above things, they are welcome to ask me. However, I will not entertain stupid or unintelligible posts, or noobs who can't read. So there.

lol interesting post wranger !!
yea.. In my experience, malaysians do not like changes, they just follow old stuff.. don't dare to try new things till others try..
and i watched all the games zenith played against euro american teams, and saw zenith lost all the games recently..
western dota has adopted all the good things from asia like ganks, triple lanes.. Whereas, asian dota has done same things for so long..
They actually use good heros/items when they get buffed or come out, sf, alchemist, tormented soul, bottles would be good examples.. Anyways.. it's time for asia to adopt good things from western dota teams...

Lol. seems it is ck mssg...

Both are good posts if you ask me

Btw what i can say about malaysian dota scene is that gamers dont really have the time/effort to explore new strats. Its not that we cling to our old strats but its rather there are very few competitions around. I think in 1 year theres at most 5 dota competitions thats worth forming a team and joining.

Since last year's SMM and WCG i think most of the top teams disbanded and didnt really improve from then on. And not many new teams are formed also, basically the community is shrinking. Whats the reason for this you may ask. The main reason is that theres no competition to look out for after that.

So every once in a while when a competition pops up, gamers will frantically form new teams or just gather a few friends and "prepare" for the upcoming competition. Basically taking all the old strats and try to mix with some other countries' strats. However, usually we dont have enough time to figure out these new strats or heroes lmao
Therefore, we will end up using old strats , old heroes and old playstyle. For the fortunate few that have the time to pickup new strats they usually wins

Im really envious of other dota players around the world because they have so much exposure to tournaments and media. For malaysian gamers we usually do it out of our own free time to play competitively, while others mostly plays for fun.

So why do you have to come and rant about your playstyle and strats
You can just advice us eloquently or even better update us periodically with your knowledge

Anyways thanks for your input to malaysian dota community.

Well, Wranger just bring out the cold truth about Malaysian and Asian DotA scene in general. Everyone, let's take his point of view and critism to a positive way. If you read his post, non of it are false. Sometimes, truth does hurt.

In conjuction of Wranger's post, I would like to give out some of my observation of the downside of the arrogance, ignorance (pardon my choice of words, I'm out for better words right) attitude. WE WON'T SURVIVE TO COMPETE AT INTERNATIONAL STAGE. Why? because we can't really adapt and absorb changes that much. Recently, at MyM Tournament, Zenith as proclaimed the best team at Asia, stumbled upon, and fell to the first EU team they met. They're not doing any good either in the TF league with 3-lose streak against Western team.

Is this how we should be? No! Take note that Westerners used -LM for high level play and only couple of months back, they started to use -AP draft mode in numerous tournament whereas we've playing with -AP draft since when?, a year ago? The keyword here is, adaptation.

However, with Odin's post, it kick some sense too with all the exposure, commitment etc. That's what we should work it right now. I always believe that we, Malaysian are maybe not better, but at least as equally talented as others. Take this effort (Autosurf Tournament) as a milestone for a better future in Malaysian DotA scene.

Best regards.

@@ best regard.

I would, if I don't get the usual 'j00 nubcake' kinda treatment everytime I try to open my mouth.

I am surprised and somewhat glad that to see that my points are well taken, and no flames thrown back at me. Was expecting flames, but then again, this is a good sign that there are people out there that are willing to take advice, FINALLY, for once.

The thing with the Dota community in Malaysia, regardless of the competitive or non-competitive scene (Public games if you may) are littered with people who constantly have a stuck mentality of resisting change. Most people that I had talked to, would almost always turn back and say the same things that I had listed in my above post. Either that, they would go like "OH REALLY?" and then follow it up with "BUT THIS IS MALAYSIA WOH" or "I PREFER TO HAVE MY OWN STYLE". The even sadder part is that, the people who said that to me happened to be my own friends in their own teams, or my own teammates. =\

I think it is time we pick what we see best in what the Westerners do, and try to work it into our current style of play. One of the people in the DA forums said this, "We had already took the best elements of the Asian game and incorporated into our game." He was referring to the 3-1-1 laning, the QoP factor and others.

In terms of skill, I don't see any Asian losing to Westerners. But Westerners are always up to date in hero changes, map changes, item changes, and so on. I was told that players playing in IHCS (In-house League for Europeans, Americans had started to play there as well) are given the chance to draft heroes all the time. They have a player drafting system as well. 2 Captains are assigned and then are given the task of drafting their players, after that, a BOT will randomly select heroes, and then the 2 Captains will have to draft heroes from the pool selected. The way I see it, this gives the Westerners a huge advantage in training how to draft heroes. They are more exposed to different heroes that are normally not seen in draft matches, and this gives them an edge in knowing probably which hero is better. An idea for the current IHL in BS? Maybe.

That is all for the time being I guess. If the people in Malaysia are as open as Odin and Iblis, I don't think we would have the problem we are facing now. Meh.

the way u talk seems so easy to say.....but do u know, when you are not someone is not easy being someone?.....my meaning is watching other country replays doesnt means we have to use their strat. i have seen teams using western countries strat but in the end get their ass kick.....whats the point sometime.....i have play dota for 3 years already, i feel that the most important thing is play comfortable and suitable. using ppl's strat wont do any good. furthermore malaysia is a country where the government never encourage us to play....not like those western countries or other overseas countries. our style or culture here is very simple, which is study hard n work hard. play hard wont bring u anywhere far in this country. most professional gamers in malaysia retired at the age of 25 or below. they realize that playing games cant help them in the future. so whats the point!!!.....so my fren wrenger, dun come to this forum n just criticize malaysians without doing your research properly....by watching replays doesnt tell u anything much about malaysians.....if you tell me you are a malaysian, i feel shame for you man......

cough cough talk about strat copying

isnt it the western who copied asian strats of ganking,roaming,viper cough cough,qop cough cough ,tri laning

and maelk said they already used tri lane long time ago yeh sure in training yep he also said they looked into viper long ago in training too yeh never in tourney or leagues not until they saw their western comrade got owned by it

oh and btw maelk qop is shit kthxbai ( Srsly he didt even dare to kill a level 4 silecner with 200hp when he was level 5 with 200+ mana and green hp ) oh silencer wasnt at tower! qop was at tower i am talking about bottom lane lawl! to add more! in war his qop always too busy hitting ppl who got caught by teammate in war instead of chasing a tinker and warlock with red hp! ) ull know what i am talking about if u watch it yourself! lawl


quote from someone in another forum "why is the so called "neutral host" is always georaphically nearer to their opponent except team Q since they claimed zenith asked for "Q" host

flizzardo i really don't understand what are you talking about... xD

and to Wranger, you must know one thing.. then probably u will understand it....
1. Most of the people only know to talk but cannot do it.

If you think that malaysian dota scene so weak.. then you don't play in malaysia sorry to say that, most malaysian didn't like to play DotA through Internet, they like LAN gaming... That why malaysia have so much CC, becoz we LOVE LAN gaming

So you have mention malaysia public game... those public game refer to "color server" or LAN gaming ? that's hard to find pro in pub game at "colour server" unless u mean IHL there

Ya meh? cb wen neva see u in IHL b4 also! XD

i neva play "colour" server got also kena force

the biggest prob for malaysian to take part international tournaments like MYM, TFL, CAL is that we dun have a decent ISP that can give us at least playable internet bandwidth....

using streamyx connection for cross-continent gaming even thru GGC is just crazy, so there is nothing malaysian DOTA community can do about this for the moment....

i dun think that DOTA tourneys are really that popular even over at western european countries, most of the replays u see from DA site are internet tourneys instead of LAN tourneys, in fact, col recently disbanded, and if you read the article that their main sponsor released, he written that DOTA is going nowhere in the e-gaming scene at international stage....

i think that while wrangler have a point for crucifying malaysia DOTA community for being stubborn and out-dated, there are other factors like malaysian dotaers just dun get enuff exposure of playing with western nations dota teams for them to change their mindset of wat heroes are good or bad for competitive dota....

is not just malaysians, but human nature not to change wat is not broken, y would anyone pick any other heroes if their current picks like qop, sandking, warlock is proving "unbeatable" at local DOTA scene, so until some local team can show they can win wit leshrac, shadow fiend , tinker, silencer, etc over top teams like RoA dream combo : qop, sk, veno, bear, zeus, then this situation will stay the same.

even the mighty zenith, once believed to be the most innovative and dominant team in Asia, they join the TFL league and pick those heroes they have so much success with in their SG tourneys like warlock,QOP, veno,bear, and they got "owned" by US/Euro teams....

so is not fair to say is a malaysian DOTA culture to be outdated, stick with old heroes, ignorant and blah blah blah....
the fact is every team in any country will stick to those heroes that worked best for them until proven otherwise....

when u play in a LAN tourney for pride and money, is just not wise to try out heroes at this stage, is like asking man united not to play cristiano ronaldo and rooney at champions league, but try to field kieran richardson and rossi cause they have "potential" and maybe they can do well.....

This post has been edited by synzo: Apr 12 2007, 03:36 PM

You are the 1 who need to GROW-UP wranger! Mature more little bit , or i should say , u are too childish ... pls do some research about "this country" Malaysia , what's the political here , what's the culture here. Be remember 1 thing , Western is NOT the best.!

This post has been edited by pOpFynX: Apr 12 2007, 03:51 PM

Western is not the best but we Asian mostly thing also lose to Western =p In tech , games , sport and etc etc all also lose to them.
This we have to admit it.

Not all also lose to them... Our Asian chics are HAWT and their's are NOT!

Good to see that autosurf, sk, roa and wizz take part in the mym pride 5 world tourney

omg pho u got it rite this 1!!!!!hahaahahaha i 199% agree this

but their chick boob more huge than our chick =x

Guys, dun get out of topic.
Anyway, strats can be learned and analyzed but not necessarily adopted. Say, Wizz has good techie, but why not all team using it?
Bz has good bonebone, why not all team using it?
SK has good Enigma, why not all team using it?

nuff said?

p/s: Haha. might not up to standard yet, but we have some gosu chicks gamers that are actually better than typical dota-ers!

This post has been edited by revivar: Apr 15 2007, 03:12 PM

its simple, when you play in asia, you fight teams that are used to asia strat, that is viper bear warlock qop sandking vs zeus bla bla bla. thats why when zenith join the tfl league, they lose to the eu/us teams. this is because i guess they never experience fighting a combo that the eu/us teams use. to get better, u need more experience and sadly, with the internet connection in malaysia, its hard to get experience playing with the eu/us fellas.... and yeah, asian chicks are hawter!

What an interesting discussion..... But i shall remain neutral and post my views from a neutral point of view as a DOTA player in Malaysia.

Firstly, the comments made about malaysia's dota community are 50/50.
Ps : Wragner, you probably have no idea who i am cause im nobody =P.
But i do agree most malaysian teams are not creative and daring enough to try Heroes or Strats till proven worthy by Others (Like I Said MOST... Dun Flame Me)
Hence being a Neutral Person i Shall only State My Own Succes and Stupidty as a strat Pioneer.

I have came up with many Successful strats in the Malaysian Community and many have remain undefeated in their version. Old V5 Sentinel Fast Push Strats (Credits to Bergaya CR before he complains Haha, UNDEFEATED) V6 Scrouge Aegis Fast Push (During Scourge Vs Sentinel Era, UNDEFEATED) Implementation of Viper into the Malaysian Scene (Put into Action By WinterNight) As For My Success in the Gaming Community there is nothing to boast cause i have only won Minor Tourneys.

As For my Stupidty, I Tried Strats Such as KOTL/Beastmaster, Orge Magi/Chen, Pudge, Obsidian Solo (Just Reminded of This Yesterday by Bz-DK hehe) and the List Goes On and On. Although i stop putting effort into coming up with New Strats Or New Solo Heroes, this is not due to my lack of interest in the game or my lack of time to do research on the international Dota community but due to the fact that unlike other Countries we lack sponsors and people to support our gaming community.

For Example, Sponsors like MYM are vastly known in the Gaming industry for WC3 and they provided gamers under them with great benefits (So I have Heard, Correct Me if Im Wrong) and once again correct me if im wrong the best support to our Dota community here might only be 1/20 of what International Sponsors offer to their gamers. Perhaps someday there will be a company that views Gaming as something worth while to invest in Malaysia someday and provide future gamers with something to continue their passion as a gamer.

Another Example, would be WCG. To be honest (Hope i dont get ban from the coming WCG) WCG in Malaysia Kind of a Failure. You look at the WCG Qualifiers and WCG Grand Finals held in other countries and the Difference is Obvious in both preparation and attention given to this Event. I will give Credit to SMM which is the only Major company who supports this Gaming community by Holding Major Tournaments to keep players in the Scene. As for Wragner, i Hope the Above has given you an insight on the Culture of Malaysia and Reason to withhold some comments regarding the Malaysian Gaming Community.

So To All Gamers in Malaysia i hope the Gaming Scene here will improve. As for comparing the Standards to DOTA from Euro/US and all the other countries in the scene, I dont look to change your views on Malaysian Gaming but only except you to give mutual-respect to Gamers not based on their talents and ability to adapt to the game but just for the reason that we are all gamers. Lastly im sure if you lookup some of the players who have been in the Dota scene in Malaysia like : Odin' , Magi-7 , PaulYan, (and a few more i cant remmember cause im at work LoLz) They would be able to provide you with some pretty good opinions.

As for me... Hahaha Maybe Someones Gonna Offer me a job or a sponsorship that supports my life and passion for gaming? Wakakaka... *Ok im off now, gonna type my resignation letter to my current Job now* Cheers to Everyone, and for Wragner I appreciate your insight still, atleast we can know where we stand in the eyes of others.

Laterzzz...

It's like a culture thing. We eat rice, they eat bread. Both are nutritious. Italians has spaghetti, Japanese has sushi, etc. Some people doesn't like other's food. some force themself to like it. some just Flame it. haha. We have a liking to QoP, angmohs has likings to THD and Alchemist. et cetera. A matter of preferences. But overall, i agree that angmohs has that extra edge with more experience, larger hero selection pools and the priviledge to enjoy good connections.

a few corrections, here and there. You're a qualified article contributor.
Good read, Woo.

Too bad dota do not have a websites such as mygozone or meetyourmakers. Else we could have some pretty nice read with such passionate players around, and match analyzer such as underminer.

ini negara malaysia u tak suka u keluar ok wranger