I waited quite long to enter.... yes?

remember...

wait to buy...
wait to sell....
in between..... wait.


the other day that link quite good what...
if not, search for IBD notes on C&H.




anyway... I will try to post immediately my fake sell.





yup... everything is bruff one.

ps.

I believe in flexibility.
If I just entered a trade...
I keep my options open...
most important ... I would like to see how the trade develop...

Yes, I want to know signals to sell so that I can learn more.

Go look for the book 'How to make money in stocks' by William O'Neal.

There's a chapter called 'When to sell ....' (hope I remember the chapter name correctly)

OK will google that book..

Paper trade in Bull market > total boost self confidence

Paper trade in Bear market > give up trading.

Paper trade in Bull market, and get into Real trade in correction > OMG.

Paper trade in Bull market, and get into Real trade in Bear Market > OMFG!

I HAVE been talking/promoting about PAPER TRADING a long time.
If you doubt me, here's just one posting made in 2013.



Yup, I had been suggesting to all newbies to do paper trading.

Why?

ANSWER this.
How does one know what's their best way to play the market as a beginner?

Is one a CONTRA player? --> * the sure way do die *
Is one a TRADER?
Is one an INVESTOR?
Is one a PUNTER?
Is one a SPECULATOR?

What kind of trading?
Trading on waves?
Trading on trends?
Trading on breakouts? etc etc

What kind of investor?
Value investor?
Growth investor? etc etc etc

With paper trading/investing, one gets to prepare themselves.
Find out what's good for them and find out what's their weakness.
They then play the market using their BEST skillset.

The alternative?

Every mistake in the market equals money lost.
So a beginner should jump in and just lose money all the way, while HOPING to discover what's best for them?

Yeah, just punt man.
It's OK if you lose money.
This is tuition fees !
Everyone pays tuition fees!
Yeah, and just make sure one got LIMITLESS amount of tuition fees to lose....



Back to what you posted.

Paper trade in Bull market > total boost self confidence

==>> Everyone wins in a bull market?
How about the UGLY truth?
The truth is a lot will lose money trying their luck in a bull market.
Without fail, many will be seduced by a RISING market.
The success stories they hear from their friends will only prompt them to JUMP into the market.
Without preparation, such as paper trading, literally they will only playing the market based on HOPE and luck.
Many will fail and LOSE money.


Paper trade in Bear market > give up trading.

==>> If one wants need to be good in the market, one needs to learn to trade/invest in every market conditions.
I paper traded for many years. Yup, and one of the best learning market conditions to learn from is the bear markets.

Paper trade in Bull market, and get into Real trade in correction > OMG.
==>> What does this actually say?
Answer? One wasn't ready.
If one paper traded correctly, one would know the market conditions before they traded.

Paper trade in Bull market, and get into Real trade in Bear Market > OMFG!
==>> Let me copy and paste my answer again.
What does this actually say?
Answer? One wasn't ready.
If one paper traded correctly, one would know the market conditions before they traded.

in a bear KLSE market all longs get slaughtered, and you won't dare to short either (as paper trade never prepare you to short it), shorting stocks is a complete different ball game. that's what it means.

when a trend change, even a small corrections, breakout/contra/short term traders accounts are flushed out. No matter how ready are you, you depend on bull market, while avoiding corrections.

this is not even a doubtful on your part, in the first place it was replied to gark.

It's good that everyone has different views, that's makes the market interesting, all groups (bulls bears sheeps pigs) are needed for the market to work it's tricks.

in a bear KLSE market all longs get slaughtered, and you won't dare to short either (as paper trade never prepare you to short it), shorting stocks is a complete different ball game. that's what it means.

If it's a bear market and one cannot recognizes it?
Well, it doesn't matter if one had paper traded or not, one should not be in the market in the first place.

when a trend change, even a small corrections, breakout/contra/short term traders accounts are flushed out. No matter how ready are you, you depend on bull market, while avoiding corrections.


Trend always changes.
That's a FACT!

Now simple question which ULTIMATELY ANSWERS your issue about paper trading.
Who is more likely to recognize, who is more prepared to handle, who is more equipped to handle such changes in market conditions?
One who has prepared and paper traded for many years?
Or a beginner?

its not how much you learn in school.

it's how much you know how to apply it even if school never taught you.

...using your argument....

this begs the question, how to know what and how to apply, if you don't even go to school?

if you have to ask this question that means...

anyway, here you go:

parents, siblings, mentors, personal coach, internet/youtube/google, books, Cd, TV, radio, seminars, blogs, employers, colleague, social events, conference, roadshow, clients, and forum here, etc......

school IS over-rated.

This post has been edited by lowya: Mar 20 2017, 11:08 AM

Different strokes for different folks...
Some people learn best from the school of hard knocks...
Whatever floats your boat...

Hahaha.....

And i was just waiting when the different strokes, the black and orange cat was going to come out....

Of course....
One CAN always choose to learn from hard knocks...
Just pay the money lor....
Just make sure papa and mama got few container loads of money to support whenever one loses like hell.

Oh yea...
This girl I knew...
She always wanted to be a trader...
Traded 5 years....
Lost like hell....
She studied all she could about trading....
Then she stopped trading....
She started investing instead....
After just 3 years....
She managed to recover all her losses....

One thing she said...
If only i knew and accepted that trading was not for me...

Well....
Would you go her way? (Lucky she got sugar daddy support)
Or would it better if she found out via paper trading that trading is NOT for her?

Ya. Some do find school is over rated.
No doubt.

But why l Iimit the learning process to just schools?
Why so narrow minded?
Cannot broaden our mindset by learning from every available resources?

Look for fake trading...
When you lose, you lose no money.
You learn and hopefully you learn from whatever mistakes you make.

Real trading?
There's really no limit to how much you can lose.
Lose too much, it's game over.

Ya. Different strokes.
Your choice.

She learned from the school of hard knocks. She did well in the end. Everyone can look back and say if only they did this or that differently. That is how life is. Sometimes you don't know what works until it is over and done and then you look at the results. You can paper trade for a year, and make a million dollars on paper. Then you can say at the end, if only I did real trading during that time and made a real million, I don't have to trade anymore forever.

I am not saying paper trading is no good. I am saying it depends on the person and their character and how they learn best. You can paper trade and make paper profits. But it can go wrong when you get to real trading. It is not a fool-proof way. It may help, but it is no guarantee. Just like there is no guarantee that if you do real trading and you profit the first few times, you will forever profit.

Its not only about how you do on paper. The stock market is dynamic. What works on paper for the past months may not work for the next months. Its about opportunity, timing, sentiment, news, rumours, and luck etc. These don't stay the same.

Based on your paper trades, you can go into a real trade which under normal circumstances would make you a 100% profit. But a couple of days later, some unexpected world events make the market go down a lot. That is beyond your control and experience.

Trading in the stock market is sort of a gamble like going to the casino or playing 4D. There is no certainty to the outcome. People don't like to say its a gamble. So they use words like managing risks etc. Life itself is a gamble as its full of risks and your taking a chance all the time, even when crossing the road. You mitigate or manage the risks by looking left, right, left again before crossing. That does not mean a helicopter won't fall on your head, or a stray bullet won't hit you while you're crossing after taking precautions.

I think one of the things lowya is pointing out is that if this year is a bull market, you learn paper trading and do well. Next year you start real trading, but its a bear market. You have lost out an opportunity due to the timing.

It seems paper trade works for you. You seem to have found a magic formula which we are not aware of. Good for you. Point is, it may not work for everyone the same as characters are different. From gark's posting, it seems that he does well in his trading / investments. I don't remember him saying that he paper traded for years before starting. I am guessing he studied and did research on stocks before buying them. Good for him too.

There must be some who have lost money when they started, but then made much more later on. Like the girl you mentioned. Good for her. For some people, no pain no gain...

Also, there is lots of discipline and patience factors involved in trading. You must also be mindful of not everyone has the same amount of capital to trade / invest. You may be having lots of money in the 6 figure range and want to earn more from it. You have all the time in the world to wait for the big returns. But there will be some who only have say 4 figures as capital and are looking for some returns to help ease living expenses etc. They cannot wait years before starting to try to get some returns.

Ok, session over... lunch break...

Dude..

Thanks for the rather long reply but I am afraid there's so many stuff i don't agree.

Should i go long or short reply?

Hmmmm.......

First para...

1. She survived cos she had her sugar daddy backing. She acknowledges this too. Without this unlimited oney backing, she was a dead duck. No way she could have made her comeback. She wished she found out that trading was not for her via paper trading.

Well, how does one know what works and what doesn't?

You can do the try method and get ready to lose money while trading or you can do the paper trading.

When I paper trade, this is my discovery process.

I find out what method works and what method doesn't.

I discover my skill set.

It's nothing like what you say in the first paragraph.

If do like you wrote there....sure die lor...



2nd paragraph.......errr....

This post has been edited by Boon3: Mar 20 2017, 01:18 PM

Paper Trading,

To me the objective is to collect data and analyze own self trading/investing journey .

Collecting data.

justification of stock selection : why do you select this stock to trade?
Justification of entry price : why would you trade this stock at this particular price?
Expectation of this trade : what do you expect from this trade? 10%?
set a time frame for review : lets says 3-6 months.

Write down all findings.

After3-6 month :
When price go up : What is the factor make the price goes up
When price go down : whats wrong? is it the entry price too high (what is the factor that affects stock price to plummet? micro/macro economics? company earning? etc)
Action plan : what shall you do when the stock goes up/ goes down?
Expectation : is your expectation in-line? or trading plan have to be adjusted?

review again few months later.

Write down all findings.

Once you got all the data, here comes the analysis part.

1) Analyze your mistake during the paper trading process, and think a way how not to repeat the same mistake again.
2) Analyze what event/ factor that will greatly affected the stock price
3) Analyze your emotion. Do you let your emotion control your trade? or you can manage your emotion when trading.



This post has been edited by Smurfs: Mar 20 2017, 02:11 PM

Exactly. Everyone got their own opinions and methods. Everyone does not need to agree with everyone else. No harm discussing, no harm disagreeing. Everyone ultimately decides what they want to do on their own. No one person is right. Do whats right for you. No need to force everyone to follow one method. As I've said, something works for you, good for you. That is not the only method.

So Smurfs , how long did you do paper trading before you did your first real trade?