This thread by invitation only or anyone welcome? Must be expert only or kindergarten level also can join?

Hahah.... you can run, but you can't hide... I'm here to haunt you again...

I figured it out. Boon3 has shares in paper lama / recycling company. That's why he promotes paper trading....

I think you can look at them to see if it fits in with what you are trying to figure out with the charts. No harm using them as a guide but not as gospel truth.

One of the main reasons some people don't like indicators is that it is based on past data. For example, when you look at moving average, its average from past days. So it mainly reflects what has already happened in the past. It does not clearly indicate what will happen in the future. So its mainly indicators to possibility of what could happen in the future given a certain set of circumstances. But those circumstances may not happen and could change as no one knows what the future hold for sure.

Volume is seen to be more useful as it shows the supply and demand which is what eventually affects prices. Its more about the present, rather than the past or future. The present is what counts as we can see it happening now.

Again, everything is just a guide. If there was a sure-fire way of getting it right all the time, everyone would be doing it and making money all the time.

Hmmm... no info on the chart, difficult to guess....
Looks like 0xxx though.

Different strokes for different folks...
Some people learn best from the school of hard knocks...
Whatever floats your boat...

She learned from the school of hard knocks. She did well in the end. Everyone can look back and say if only they did this or that differently. That is how life is. Sometimes you don't know what works until it is over and done and then you look at the results. You can paper trade for a year, and make a million dollars on paper. Then you can say at the end, if only I did real trading during that time and made a real million, I don't have to trade anymore forever.

I am not saying paper trading is no good. I am saying it depends on the person and their character and how they learn best. You can paper trade and make paper profits. But it can go wrong when you get to real trading. It is not a fool-proof way. It may help, but it is no guarantee. Just like there is no guarantee that if you do real trading and you profit the first few times, you will forever profit.

Its not only about how you do on paper. The stock market is dynamic. What works on paper for the past months may not work for the next months. Its about opportunity, timing, sentiment, news, rumours, and luck etc. These don't stay the same.

Based on your paper trades, you can go into a real trade which under normal circumstances would make you a 100% profit. But a couple of days later, some unexpected world events make the market go down a lot. That is beyond your control and experience.

Trading in the stock market is sort of a gamble like going to the casino or playing 4D. There is no certainty to the outcome. People don't like to say its a gamble. So they use words like managing risks etc. Life itself is a gamble as its full of risks and your taking a chance all the time, even when crossing the road. You mitigate or manage the risks by looking left, right, left again before crossing. That does not mean a helicopter won't fall on your head, or a stray bullet won't hit you while you're crossing after taking precautions.

I think one of the things lowya is pointing out is that if this year is a bull market, you learn paper trading and do well. Next year you start real trading, but its a bear market. You have lost out an opportunity due to the timing.

It seems paper trade works for you. You seem to have found a magic formula which we are not aware of. Good for you. Point is, it may not work for everyone the same as characters are different. From gark's posting, it seems that he does well in his trading / investments. I don't remember him saying that he paper traded for years before starting. I am guessing he studied and did research on stocks before buying them. Good for him too.

There must be some who have lost money when they started, but then made much more later on. Like the girl you mentioned. Good for her. For some people, no pain no gain...

Also, there is lots of discipline and patience factors involved in trading. You must also be mindful of not everyone has the same amount of capital to trade / invest. You may be having lots of money in the 6 figure range and want to earn more from it. You have all the time in the world to wait for the big returns. But there will be some who only have say 4 figures as capital and are looking for some returns to help ease living expenses etc. They cannot wait years before starting to try to get some returns.

Ok, session over... lunch break...

Exactly. Everyone got their own opinions and methods. Everyone does not need to agree with everyone else. No harm discussing, no harm disagreeing. Everyone ultimately decides what they want to do on their own. No one person is right. Do whats right for you. No need to force everyone to follow one method. As I've said, something works for you, good for you. That is not the only method.

So Smurfs , how long did you do paper trading before you did your first real trade?

I think (or at least in my mind) you got say before. At least you mentioned years. I thought it was 3 or 5, but I wrong since you said 8. I should have written your post down on paper...

Not sure if you want to answer, never mind if you don't....

In the 8 years of your paper trading, do you have a rough percentage of wins vs loss? Like 50-50 or 70-30 etc?

How does that compare with your real trading after that? Is it about the same percentage? Or much better?

You see, I ask not because I want to know how much profit you make....

I can see how you are trying to guide newbies on to a track so that they don't lose money right at the start. I can appreciate that, believe it or not...

However, IMO, it is not much point just chanting a mantra unless you show the benefits. Or else newbies will not take it seriously. Your story about the girl who lost money initially is a good one that newbies can probably relate to or be aware of or be afraid of.

Why some people read books of other successful people is because they want to see if they can follow or emulate to also achieve success. But the book must have explanations of why and how in order for one to learn from it, or else it is just like another story book.

There is a difference between preaching and teaching...

Trading becoming philosophical...

Your point about the emotions part is a very good one. You do not get the true impact of how emotions come into play when doing paper trading alone.

In my previous posts, I have already said that I am not saying paper trading is no good.

My point was to ask after doing 8 years of paper trading, you should be having close to 100% wins with real trading after that. Except that one time, if I remember correctly, you said you lost some 3K or something on a trade - can't quite remember exactly. Such stats would thus help a newbie understand the value of it all.

Do you think if you tell a newbie to paper trade first for 5 or 8 years before doing a real trade, they are going to follow?

No, I wasn't asking for you actual trading profits etc.

Anyway, if anyone is interested here is an article about paper trading. As I say, there are normally two side to everything. Make sure you read the user comments at the bottom to get a wider view. One of the comments say what MeToo said in an earlier post here. People generally write articles to push their own viewpoint only. Does not mean there are no other correct viewpoints.

https://tinyurl.com/kgo8bp7

Yes, everyone should respect each other's opinions.

Not sure if I got what you mean, but let me clarify. I said:

Note the word "not" in there. So I wasn't asking Boon3 to tell his profits.

Anyway, never mind, don't want to toxicate this thread...

I've said before, I'm not saying paper trade is not good. If it helps you succeed, good for you.
You obviously believe it is the best way to go, as can be seen from how strongly you feel and defend it.
Your advice to newbies to do it is welcome. I don't think many will do it like you have for years and years before they get into the real trading though.

That's funny lowya, given that this current discussion was pretty much started off by your post #246...

Not sure how many more times I must say, I did not say you must not paper trade. Please understand that.

I posted a link to an article in an earlier post about paper trading. Go read that. Got some comments at the bottom by users. As I always say, there is good and bad to everything. Pros and cons.

You have made it clear you don't think people should pay tuition fees, which can be avoided by paper trading first. Yes, good advice. If people want to take it, let them. If people don't want to listen, and they want to pay tuition fees, let them. It is not your responsibility. Unless they are your kids or something.

As I wrote, I used the word "current". Never mind lowya, not blaming you, just pointing out only.