Why do you prefer low-saps as a good feature? I personally prefer my oils to be high-saps to combat the lower fuel grade we have here in Malaysia

This post has been edited by e-lite: Nov 5 2020, 12:30 AM

Not sure whether the version I used was low-SAPS or mid-SAPS, coz Aisin didn't even bother to publish anything back then. Only with the redesignation to EvoTech PAO+Ester move that consumer like us can find PDS with very limited info , like what you have posted.

For now, I am using SHU on my Elantra's G4GC as this is the best bang for buck EO in the market now. Aisin PAO+Ester FS used to be very competitive in terms of pricing that time back in 2018.

I have no fixation on any specific brand or type of oil to use on my cars. Only best deal matters.

Used to have preference same as you. With the move to EURO4M for our fuel throughout the country, I think it is about time we make a shift in our mindset to move to more recent standard of EO as well.

Dunno about others, but I can notice the changes (or rather the slower change in terms of colour) in my in-service EO ever since EURO4M was intro-ed. My EO on both daily-driven cars actually darkened at significantly slower rate than when they were consuming EURO2M fuel.

I think it is about time for me to consider using low-SAPS type of lubes, as and when they pop-up on the shelf when there is sales.

Aisin PAO+Ester 5W40 packaging does not display the wording '100% Synthetic' , hence I deem Aisin as not claiming 100% of this 5W40 base oil as PAO+Ester .

Further it's selling price at shopee of RM128 for 4L pack IMO, is unlikely to consists of 100% of base oil being PAO+Ester .

Your assessment of 5%-20% PAO may be reasonable I believe . Ester is in a way , anybody's guess .

Note:Mobil 1 EP 5W30 has base oils of far higher percentage of PAO , IIRC .

Anyway , I'm of the understanding that the so-called engine oil claiming 100% PAO base oil as typically also contains a certain amount of mineral oil (in Group III) due to chemistry or affinity of additives to natural mineral oil .

Below is an image from Shopee ,



Notice that this Aisin packaging doesn't display API logos ? ...which is required for 'marketing' purpose as an SN engine oil .
I wouldn't be worried about it though , but the cons is :
it doesn't carry some (if not all as indicated on PDS) Euro OEM approvals .

This post has been edited by zeng: Nov 5 2020, 12:43 PM

Oops, not realising your version does not carry the wording 'EvoTech' and it may differ from current EvoTech version .

The bold makes sense .

But I buy engine oils partly based on price too , with a 'higher' spec'ed (ACEA over basic API) and not so much on base oil content , for now .

This post has been edited by zeng: Mar 6 2021, 10:31 AM

First off , it is misleading of Aisin claiming 'Low SaPS' for its Aisin PAO+Ester 5W40 and 5W30 , IMO .

Its packaging claims ACEA A3B4 however , which are contradictory .

'Low SaPS' is found in ACEA C1 and C4 for SaPS content at 0.5 and below .

ACEA A3B4 (as per packaging) spec is for SaPS content between 1.0 and 1.6 .

I wish to speculate Aisin is meant to claim in its PDS 'Mid-SaPS' which supposedly falls under ACEA C2/C3 and C5 whose permitted SaPS is 0.8 and below .

Now, why do I prefer low/mid-SaPS features ?

From my readings of numerous Used Oil Analyses from Bitog/Russia , I found low/mid SaPS oils C3 etc generally perform equally well if not better in wear metal counts .

It also seems to perform better IMO , in extended oil change intervals beyond 16,000 km .

However, I do realise quite a majority of Bitogers doesn't agree so .

Moreover , I had seen several blotter oil spot tests of mid-SaPS C3 (or claimed C3) as generally far superior than that of high SaPS oils like ACEA A3B3,A3B4 and most API SN/SM oils .

At the end of the day , the proof of the puddings is in the eating .

This post has been edited by zeng: Nov 6 2020, 11:33 AM

Low and Mid SaPS oils were first produced in 2004 in conjunction with the January 2005 launching of Euro 4 fuels specification in Europe .

With the recent Jan 2020 upgrade of RON 95 petrol to Euro 4M , I would expect local European OEMs' specifying in their new owner manuals (for post 2020 cars) engine oils basing on low/mid SaPS complying with respective OEM approvals .

So far, I don't see any perceptible difference in blotter spot tests with Euro 2M Ron 95 vs against Euro 5(?) Ron 97 hence fuel standards in use does not come into play since say , 2018 in this thread .

However, I realise there is perceptible difference in performance of engine oil blotter spot tests with a real C3 (or claimed C3) specification vs those of high SaPs A3B4 and most of API SN/SM/SL oils IME .

This post has been edited by zeng: Nov 6 2020, 11:58 AM

Hi Zeng,

Kindly comment on the above oil. Taken after 15mins of drive. Picture was taken 24 hrs after oil was dripped on A4 paper.

Oil: Zic x7 Fully Synthetic 5w-30
Age of oil: 8 months
Oil Mileage: 4500kms
Engine Mileage: 84000km
Vehicle: Nissan Latio C11 1.6L 2009
Driving condition: 95% short distance city driving. Usually 15min/drive.

How long can it last? And is the oil condition still serviceble? Thanks in advance

Hi Yuare ,

This 4500 km Zic X7 5W30 blotter has a light coloured and transparent centre zone (of about 8 mm diameter on real sample) indicating quite low level of large size or high density metal wear particles /combustion dirt .

The aureole zone /perimeter ring is slightly darkened and being very obvious which ,I am a bit concern on this .

It indicates signs of agglomeration of contaminants/dirts which you may want to monitor further such that it does not become further darkened and opaque . At the moment I suspect this is caused by 95% short distance cold running of the engine , hence internet suggests it shortens oil life theoretically .

The Diffusion zone is very light gray and transparent indicating quite low levels of contanminants .

There is no signs of water moisture presence but this 4500 km blotter seems to indicate a mild level of fuel dilution which may be explained by the rather low mileage of 4500 km over 8 months duration of operation .

Overall , I would say this Zic oil blotter at 4500 km is still in good and serviceable condition with plenty of life left .

You may want to take another blotter sample after 2000-3000 km or 4 month later and move from there .

By the way for a full synthetic oil , what is your typical oil change intervals so far ?

Prior to learning about this oil blot test, I was doing 1 yearly interval change which equate to about 7000kms. Then, I was not happy about the really dark oil (just general inspection of oil on tissue paper after cleaning the dipstick). I then switched to half yearly oil change for my fully synthetic no matter what the mileage was.

The above oil was after 3 rounds of half yearly oil change interval.

Thank you so much for the interpretation bro

In this case ,you may collect the next blotter sample at around 6500 km or 11.5 months for purpose of evaluation of used oil conditions and its continuing serviceability then .

This post has been edited by zeng: Nov 20 2020, 06:53 AM

Attached is the Product Data Sheet of this Zic X7 5W30 ,



I found pdf TBN of 7.95 for a SN plus like X7 is abit on the low side where most other SN (without plus) that I came across has a TBN or 9 - 9.3 .

This lower TBN would supposedly shortens the oil change intervals/ longevity of engine oils vs others of higher TBN values of similar Sulfated Ash ( Sa ) content .

It also appears to me its base oil is basically of the VHVI Group III type , probably without or very little of Group IV (PAO) or Group V (Ester etc) base oils .

This post has been edited by zeng: Nov 23 2020, 11:12 AM

Sorry to be off topic..

This Zic, they claim to be like top selling oil from South Korea. However, I am not so sure. Anyone can comment on it is really popular in South Korea and is it even really from South Korea?

I am asking this cause a lot of engine oil brands that sound like Japanese, they register Japanese website and so on to make it like it is from Japan. Actually it is made in Malaysia or don't even have information where it is from.

This post has been edited by abubin: Nov 23 2020, 12:38 PM

Errmmmm , you are not quite off topic here as Zic oil X7 5W30 blotter is being discussed several posts above .

My readings from Russia oil club suggests this Zic oil is South Korean and seems to be quite popular in Russia .

Zic oil is also brought up in Bitog though not so much on German oil club .

Approval listings of European OEM MB 229.51 does include 3 Zic brand models , which I would deduce Zic as of a reputable oil company in the international market in Europe as well as North America .

The same cannot be said of the numerous locally available 'Japanese' engine oils though and I concur with your position here .


Edit : I am adding to Post #1 here that , other than matters related to used engine oil change intervals and Blotter Spot Tests , this thread welcomes questions on Used Oil Analyses (UOA's) and vehicle Wheel Alignment since I do not create separate threads on 1 ) UOA's and 2 ) Wheel Alignments on lowyat .

This post has been edited by zeng: Aug 25 2021, 01:18 PM

Zic is under SK, one of the largest conglomerates in South Korea. They are definitely a legitimate company. I have no idea about their lubricant's quality though.

If I'm not mistaken, from what I've come across, the SN plus TBN are generally lower than SN only oils. The newer oils (SN plus, dexos 2) have lower TBN. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Yes, I do not expect them to include any Group IV or V in this x7. It won't be that affordable anymore.

One of the reasons I chose this brand is because it is relatively less popular in Malaysia and the chance of you getting a fake oil online is much lower. So far, I have bought a few which all comes with proper seal and additional plastic Zic wrap over the bottle cap. I have doubts buying popular brands online as there are various news in the past stating that unscrupulous people repackaged recycle oils into branded oil bottles.

Zeng, do you mind sharing how and where you get your engine oil from?

Interesting about SN plus generally having lower TBN than non-plus SN .

IIRC , both API SN plus and SN specification limits on SaPS are the same at < 1.0 percent .

Yes, you are right in suggesting Dexos 2 oils generally have lower TBN but this is due to the fact Dexos 2 is a mid-SaPS oil complying with ACEA C3 performance spec whereas typical SN plus/SN specs are not mid-SaPS .

I suppose you meant to say SN plus generally has Dexos 1 GEN 2 specs , a spec which this Zic X7 5W30 is claiming ?

Btw, for similar price point , take a look at a semi-synthetic Shell HX7 5W30 which has rather strong additive package and certain amount of higher grade GTL base oil , a base oil Zic X7 doesn't have .

Having said that , I am of the opinion that this Zic X7 is beyond doubt a reasonably good oil . Personally I have no qualms in attempting 12,000 - 15,000 km oci with this Zic X7 to be followed with blotter spot tests for assessments .

My source of engine oils ?

Ohhh....... most of them were from online purchases from Tesco .........years ago .

They are all branded big names like Shell/Castrol/Mobil/Total etc carrying ACEA specs and Euro OEM approvals like MB, VW etc for thicker oil film thickness and extended oci .

In a way , I would consider this Zic oil as branded too though not popular , yet over here ?

This post has been edited by zeng: Nov 26 2020, 09:52 AM

Its almost impossible to price a 100% ester/PAOoil at sub rm100 price bracket. Let me give you a rough figure on the pricing. PAO and Ester base cost almost 3-4 times more expensive than a regular group 3 base oil.

To be fair, Aisin did not claim 100% pao+ester base oil. So one should not assume that as well. If you look at full ester based oil, price goes well above RM250. So what you pay is what you get.

Actually does 100% PAO engine oil exist in market?