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> Blotter Spot Test:9642 km ..., Mobil 1 New Life 0W40(Tesco)

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post Feb 10 2017, 02:53 PM

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QUOTE(zeng @ Feb 9 2017, 09:33 PM)
I mean taking pictures 48 hours or thereabout AFTER  depositing the above Blotter Spots of yours ...... as is my picture in post #1.
There is usually minor variations against those taken say, 2 hours after depositing the Blotter BST. tongue.gif
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Curious..Did you change the oil filter in between the oil changes? If yes on what mileage?
TSzeng
post Feb 10 2017, 08:13 PM

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QUOTE(Balanced @ Feb 10 2017, 02:53 PM)
Curious..Did you change the oil filter in between the oil changes? If yes on what mileage?

No.
Filter is of same mileage as this oil, now approaching 12600 km.
Is there something to be wary of ?

This post has been edited by zeng: Feb 10 2017, 08:14 PM
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post Feb 10 2017, 08:50 PM

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QUOTE(zeng @ Feb 10 2017, 08:13 PM)
No.
Filter is of same mileage as this oil, now approaching 12600 km.
Is there something to be wary of ?
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Hmmm...In read somewhere it says that it is better to change the filter every 5k-8k eventhough the oil didn't change. Then just too up the oil. Forgotten where and not sure how true is that though. All i know is original oil filter is the best if compared to other aftermarket brands. Seen the video and filter elements inside in YouTube.
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post Feb 10 2017, 09:20 PM

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QUOTE(Balanced @ Feb 10 2017, 08:50 PM)
Hmmm...In read somewhere it says that it is better to change the filter every 5k-8k eventhough the oil didn't change. Then just too up the oil. Forgotten where and not sure how true is that though. All i know is original oil filter is the best if compared to other aftermarket brands. Seen the video and filter elements inside in YouTube.
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Agree with you that the rule of thumb was filter change in every 2 oil changes totaling 10,000 km.
But, from what I read at bobistheoilguy.com the Americans are habitually changing oil filter at more than 10,000 miles (not km)........
granted our filters used here might differ from theirs.
From this Blotter Spot Tests picture above at 12,238 km mileage (and other pictures with me as well) , I'm of the opinion that this RM12 filter is holding up well so far ......
though it's always to safer to change earlier or as recommended by OEM etc.

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post Feb 10 2017, 09:32 PM

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QUOTE(zeng @ Feb 10 2017, 09:20 PM)
Agree with you that the rule of thumb was filter change in every 2 oil changes totaling 10,000 km.
But, from what I read at bobistheoilguy.com the Americans are habitually changing oil filter at more than 10,000 miles (not km)........
granted our filters used here might differ from theirs.
From this Blotter Spot Tests picture above at 12,238 km mileage (and other pictures with me as well) , I'm of the opinion that this RM12 filter is holding up well so far ......
though it's always to safer to change earlier or as recommended by OEM etc.
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I think it highly depends on our driving conditions. For daily stop go traffic as in Penang,Kl, Johor..I think it is better to change the filter earlier. Engines are more strained in these conditions, furthermore the air will be more dusty.
I do not know how well foreign particles are suspended in the oil, so no comment on the blotter spot test for this dirt aspect. . Best is take out the filter and cut it open to check the filter elements.
kadajawi
post Feb 11 2017, 02:55 AM

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QUOTE(zeng @ Feb 8 2017, 08:42 AM)
Well the engine is normal ok typically Japanese ..... am very happy with it.
No leaks. No smokes.
Huuh....... intending OCI at 29000 km ??
Yeah, better safe than sorry if in doubt. ....... one really has got to know with confidence what's going on to 'breach' kopitiam talk or pays a price.
Anyway regular oil monitoring helps, more so with Blotter Spot Tests. smile.gif
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It's up to 30000 km, the engine keeps record of how you drive, and under what condition, and calculates when it is time to go for an oil change. French and Italian manufacturers go up to 35000 km between oil changes (or even 50000 km for diesel engines). However VW demands inspections at other intervals it seems, which is good because there they hopefully find any upcoming defects before they get serious. IMHO that is very important, 35000 km between oil changes... not much of an issue I believe, but not noticing a small defect that causes other, bigger ones... that is.

QUOTE(zeng @ Feb 8 2017, 01:09 PM)
Thank you for your valuable comments, folks.

This is a 2007 Toyota Avanza K3VE 1.3L (same as Myvi 1.3L engine).

It has been on minerals Shell 15W40 and 20W50 (SL) for 5000 to 6500 km OCI till around 2010.
From 2010 to 2014 , I switched to better minerals ( ...... I bellieve) in Diesel Engine Oil i.e Petronas Supremo 15W40 CI4/SL/A3B4/MB etc approvals for 6000 to 8500 km OCI.
From 2014 it has been on semi synthetic Quartz 7000 Energy 10W40 till todate.

Driving style ..... I would say it's gentle and smooth gear-change for components protection ...
But morning start never wait for warm up and drive away from stationary within half a minute or so and touching 3000 to 3500 rpm in top gear within say, 1 km travel.
Whenever engine is hot enough, sometimes push to 4500/4700 rpm.
Never drive below 3000 rpm though !
To and fro USJ/KL Sentral about 20-25 minutes or thereabout one way, with short internal travels within Subang Jaya.
Back to Malacca on average 4 to 5 trips in about every 3 months.
Do you consider this as aggressive ? IDK.

Yes, I heard Mobil 1 full synthetic turns dark/black a bit faster as they claim it cleans better than other oils ........ Is that true ?

Hope it helps...  tongue.gif
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wow. Never drive below 3000 rpm? I rarely ever drive above 3000 rpm... usually in town I'm at around 1000 rpm, maybe 1300. Shift gear at 1500-1700. Only on the highway the rpm is higher, because I run out of gears... laugh.gif May I ask why your revs are so high?
TSzeng
post Feb 11 2017, 08:57 PM

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QUOTE(kadajawi @ Feb 11 2017, 02:55 AM)
It's up to 30000 km, the engine keeps record of how you drive, and under what condition, and calculates when it is time to go for an oil change. French and Italian manufacturers go up to 35000 km between oil changes (or even 50000 km for diesel engines). However VW demands inspections at other intervals it seems, which is good because there they hopefully find any upcoming defects before they get serious. IMHO that is very important, 35000 km between oil changes... not much of an issue I believe, but not noticing a small defect that causes other, bigger ones... that is.

Aahh ..... European VW engines, no wonder.
Is this sort of 'intelligent' type of Oil Life Monitor (OLM , being GM's, not VW, terminology) ? ....
and do higher sulphur RON 95 and lower sulphur RON 97 give you different mileages according to OLM ?

QUOTE
wow. Never drive below 3000 rpm? I rarely ever drive above 3000 rpm... usually in town I'm at around 1000 rpm, maybe 1300. Shift gear at 1500-1700. Only on the highway the rpm is higher, because I run out of gears... laugh.gif May I ask why your revs are so high?

Don't get alarmed though. This is 1.3L Avanza gearbox with lousy gear ratio, I have.
3000 rpm is too slow at 90 km/hr.
I drive 100 to 110 km/hr most of the time, and occasionally push to 120-140 km/hr on long distance travel. blush.gif

Edit:I believe engine oil temperature in higher rpm engine would warm up faster in morning startup with cold ambients.

This post has been edited by zeng: Feb 11 2017, 09:02 PM
kadajawi
post Feb 11 2017, 09:54 PM

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QUOTE(zeng @ Feb 11 2017, 08:57 PM)
Aahh ..... European VW engines, no wonder.
Is this sort of 'intelligent'  type of Oil Life Monitor (OLM , being GM's, not VW, terminology) ? ....
and do higher sulphur RON 95 and lower sulphur RON 97 give you different mileages according to OLM ?
Don't get alarmed though. This is 1.3L Avanza gearbox with lousy gear ratio, I have.
3000 rpm is too slow at 90 km/hr.
I drive 100 to 110 km/hr most of the time, and occasionally push to 120-140 km/hr on long distance travel. blush.gif

Edit:I believe engine oil temperature in higher rpm engine would warm up faster in morning startup with cold ambients.
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I don't fuel up 97 because it's more expensive. Usually I fill up with E10, which is roughly RM 0.10 cheaper than regular 95 (the ethanol content is 10% rather than 5%). 97 is roughly RM 0.50 more (at 50 liters a week or so that makes a difference).

Yup, it's this "intelligent" system I suppose. Without long life oil and with the monitoring turned off the interval is 15000 km. Also, that's for people that mostly do long distance drives (since the engine is already warm... cold starts are the big issue). If you're mostly doing short distance journeys, don't expect to get a 30000 km interval. Some people are reporting significantly less than that. In Malaysia manufacturers seem to prefer to play it safe (or you may say they want to cash in), and truth be told I guess the average driver mostly drives shorter distances.

On the other hand even a cold start in Malaysia is at significantly higher temperatures, and it takes forever for the engine to cool down. Like I could return to my car hours later and the engine was still warm... not 90°C, but above 30°C. In Germany I can be at a traffic light and watch the oil temperature drop with the engine on... A cold start can mean the engine has -20°C when starting on some days, which is much harsher on the oil than it ever could be in Malaysia. Basically, IMHO Malaysia is rather gentle on cars (apart from potholes... but we've got cobblestone, so that's perhaps even worse).

I found an overview of oil change intervals in Germany: Fiat and Alfa Romeo generally get their cars back at the 30000 km mark (diesel 35000 km), which is rather... optimistic. Then again my old Renault diesel was also 35000 km I believe, and the engine was still going strong after 255000 km. Citroen 20k (petrol) 25k diesel. Audi is like VW, 15 to 30k depending on driving style and conditions. Hyundai and Kia are usually 30k, while Toyota is 15k. Not so confident in their engines, it seems.

Ah, no wonder. Yeah, on the motorway my revs are higher too. My car could do with another gear, or a longer 6th, I'm around 2500 rpm at 110 when the engine could easily do that at lower revs. Yes, higher revs would warm up the engine faster (higher loads even more so... so full throttle). However I don't want too high revs at low temperatures when lubrication isn't good. What is really damaging is idling though. Don't idle when the engine is cold, because it does very little to warm it up, so the engine is running forever at low temperatures, leading to premature wear. Start engine, put on seatbelt, go.
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post Feb 14 2017, 11:24 AM

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Agree with you the Malaysian OEM's play safe and cashing in on local buyers recommending very very short OCI (even with high-priced SC oils) ..... bangwall.gif .

The practice of morning start warm up by idling for xx minutes here ... to me is a joke ..... but that's what experts suggest anyway ..... ....

What's your take on relative engine failure rates (or engine life in km travelled) between German (Euro) engines of typically 3x,000 km OCI and Malaysia's Asian car(generally known for durability) <10000 km OCI engine ?

What about vs Msia's Euro engines of VW/Volvo OCI of xx (12000 km ..IDK?) ?

Btw, would appreciate your sharing Blotter picture upload at 30,000 km OCI in times to come ........ that's going to be eye opening for most members here with disbelief . tongue.gif

This post has been edited by zeng: Feb 14 2017, 11:28 AM
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post Feb 14 2017, 02:36 PM

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Cost benefit , is the cost of an oil change worth the benefit of saving some little money ?

For me the clearer the oil , the less the detergents are cleaning the engine.

Secondly all cars now fitted with exhaust gas recirculation for emission controls , it just dumps so much garbage back into the engine , if the oil isn't picking and holding that garbage , it's going into your cylinder walls and main bearings
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post Feb 14 2017, 05:20 PM

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QUOTE(zeng @ Feb 14 2017, 11:24 AM)
....

The practice of morning start warm up by idling for xx minutes here ... to me is a joke ..... but that's what experts suggest anyway ..... ....

...
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I don't think automotive experts are still suggesting that.
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post Feb 14 2017, 06:49 PM

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QUOTE(zeng @ Feb 11 2017, 08:57 PM)
Aahh ..... European VW engines, no wonder.
Is this sort of 'intelligent'  type of Oil Life Monitor (OLM , being GM's, not VW, terminology) ? ....
and do higher sulphur RON 95 and lower sulphur RON 97 give you different mileages according to OLM ?
Don't get alarmed though. This is 1.3L Avanza gearbox with lousy gear ratio, I have.
3000 rpm is too slow at 90 km/hr
.
I drive 100 to 110 km/hr most of the time, and occasionally push to 120-140 km/hr on long distance travel. blush.gif

Edit:I believe engine oil temperature in higher rpm engine would warm up faster in morning startup with cold ambients.
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Your gearbox still in dem good accurate condition . 90kph is real 3k rpm on 4th gear auto.





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TSzeng
post Feb 15 2017, 05:53 PM

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QUOTE(Actchan @ Feb 14 2017, 06:49 PM)
Your gearbox still in dem good accurate condition . 90kph is real 3k rpm on 4th gear auto.
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Jeez..... thank you for providing gear ratios of an Avanza 1.3L....... I'd no luck from internet previously.
Appreciate if you'd gear ratios for 1994 Wira auto and 2014 Kia K5 auto gear ratios for sharing, mate.
Yeah, would be glad local motorists are aware of the myth on morning start warm up idling practices.. dry.gif


This post has been edited by zeng: Feb 15 2017, 05:55 PM
kadajawi
post Feb 17 2017, 07:11 AM

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QUOTE(zeng @ Feb 14 2017, 11:24 AM)
Agree with you the Malaysian OEM's play safe and cashing in on local buyers recommending very very short OCI (even with high-priced SC oils) .....  bangwall.gif .

The practice of morning start warm up by idling for xx minutes here ... to me is a joke ..... but that's what experts suggest anyway ..... ....

What's your take on relative engine failure rates (or engine life in km travelled) between German (Euro) engines of  typically 3x,000 km OCI and Malaysia's Asian car(generally known for durability) <10000 km OCI engine ?

What about vs Msia's Euro engines of VW/Volvo OCI of xx (12000 km ..IDK?) ?

Btw, would appreciate your sharing Blotter picture upload at 30,000 km OCI in times to come ........ that's going to be eye opening for most members here with disbelief . tongue.gif
*
I haven't heard an expert suggest that in a long time. In those days of carburetors perhaps it still made sense, but how many of those are still around? All modern cars don't need to be warmed up, and shouldn't be warmed up by idling.

I believe my Xsara was always serviced every 20k or 25k, using normal oil, and up until 150k there was no issue. I did end up having a leaking head gasket, but is that related to the engine oil? From what I know that particular engine is rather tough, except for the head gasket. (Fortunately on that engine it's relatively cheap to fix).

I don't know of any higher engine failure rate, and you can find hundreds of Mercedes for sale that have 500000 km or more on the clock.

But I'm not aware of any statistics about engine defects... maybe it's worse than in Malaysia, maybe it isn't.

How to do the blotter test? Can I use normal printing paper? Like 80g, and relatively fine? Just take out the dipstick and let it drop onto the paper? I have one week to do it... oil change is coming up at the end of the month.
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post Feb 17 2017, 11:56 AM

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I dripped EO on toilet paper, haha.
Here's the result.


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kirakun
post Feb 17 2017, 12:09 PM

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QUOTE(chemistry @ Feb 17 2017, 11:56 AM)
I dripped EO on toilet paper, haha.
Here's the result.
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Typo on the date for second picture?

For the second picture, oil is dark and contaminated definitely due for a change.

I would advice against using till such condition as with contaminant shown through oil dip means there may be plenty down somewhere within the block, bearing or anywhere within reach of the oil. Clearly the oil filter is no longer working in this case.
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post Feb 17 2017, 12:16 PM

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QUOTE(kirakun @ Feb 17 2017, 12:09 PM)
Typo on the date for second picture?

For the second picture, oil is dark and contaminated definitely due for a change.

I would advice against using till such condition as with contaminant shown through oil dip means there may be plenty down somewhere within the block, bearing or anywhere within reach of the oil. Clearly the oil filter is no longer working in this case.
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Definitely not typo.
The dark one is BEFORE, clear one is AFTER 48hrs.
kirakun
post Feb 17 2017, 12:18 PM

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QUOTE(chemistry @ Feb 17 2017, 12:16 PM)
Definitely not typo.
The dark one is BEFORE, clear one is AFTER 48hrs.
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Cannot brain the logic behind haha. Mind to elaborate on the oil taken before and 48 hours after?
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post Feb 17 2017, 12:18 PM

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- double post -

This post has been edited by kirakun: Feb 17 2017, 12:18 PM
Quazacolt
post Feb 17 2017, 12:46 PM

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QUOTE(kirakun @ Feb 17 2017, 12:09 PM)
Typo on the date for second picture?

For the second picture, oil is dark and contaminated definitely due for a change.

I would advice against using till such condition as with contaminant shown through oil dip means there may be plenty down somewhere within the block, bearing or anywhere within reach of the oil. Clearly the oil filter is no longer working in this case.
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There's another saying that if your oil is clear, it isn't doing its job in suspending contaminants.

My guess also, is after 48 hours the contaminants in the oil sink to the bottom and stay suspended there leaving a cleaner oil as shown.

Ultimately, it's all guesswork.

The best and proper way is still a UOA. bar none, the end.

Your eyes definitely cannot see metal particles and those you can see are beyond spectrometer that UOA uses and that's actually prompt for concerns.

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