Are you asking what is the most rational calculated strategy for ED timing/placing OTC FD or eFD for a newbie or for moving from a bad strategy to a good strategy for a combination of normal FD or only for promo FD? Are you asking about FD strategy with monthly payment of interest?

You will only be able to convince yourself or have the full confidence to change if you can fully understand and have the means/ability to calculate accurately what will happen and make rational comparisons between different ways and dates, not forgetting what personal circumstances or your historic blunders you are willing to sacrifice and change.

The first thing is a simple admission that some decisions could have been stupid mistakes due to ignorance or not willing to consider other alternative reason/courses of action, and that better solutions can be discovered or shared in discussions about FD.

Secondly, there is no lazy escape from the need to have the tools and the knowhow to operate it correctly and to be able to know whether the judgment of the resulting calculation and subsequent action is really beneficial or misguided/misunderstanding.

Every now and then, somebody will come out with a proposition or plan of action to fit the changing circumstances to provide some rational and calculable benefit. It is up to the reader to figure out the pros and cons for others before even attempting to see how it will be adapted for his own situation. Thus, there can be some personal problems/hitches/bias which may be a personality/psychological problem interfering with adaption of a change.

We know that there are a variety of different people with widely differing upbringings and attitudes towards money, interests, risks, obligations and responsibilities. So there will always be disagreemnet and conflict from these different people. We need to realise where these people are coming from and why they do not hold or appreciate objective or calculable or testable actions. There is usually a phobia or laziness about doing arithmetic or being scientific (ie calculating different scenarios and testing and experimenting actuality). A major problem is that they hold some illogical assumptions by not understanding or even considering at all why and how banking calculations and ideas differ from ordinary algebra or arithmetic. Thus their view that bank comes up top and exploit them. Instead of understanding how different banks work differently and how they can adjust their own actions to their benefit instead of making unnecessary and free donations to the banks from their own ignorance or laziness or unwillingness to learn/discuss to improve their ways.

Normally when improvement is wanted, it is first a requirement to know what bad habits or traits or ideas you have and practicing. If one is arrogant and think always OK and right, why need to change then?

This post has been edited by oldkiasu: Jan 21 2024, 10:17 PM

To your question, all kiasu discussion group members say that the rate which is placed successfully (ie. they either receive a FD cert or an acknowledgement slip for OTC FD, or receipt electronically for eFD, the rate remains fixed whatever happens after that to the OPR. They never expect the bank to revise UP or DOWN to follow OPR. In the first place, OPR is not something legally or administratively firmly tied to FD and the banks have to follow as the concept is merely to address overnight loans between banks as the name says. So if the bank is not business savvy enough and do dumb stuff like reducing the rate, it would probably give them a bad reputation and discourage FD placing. Since many depositors especially old, retired, sick and not so rich people depend on a stable fixed interest, this is a morally wicked thing to do and show that the bank does not have any social responsibility.


However, there is a situation which is not very clear to my discussion group members which readers may help to enlighten us from their experiences.

Let us say, you go to the bank and put in a cheque for the FD. Nowadays, most banks can provisionally accept a personal or bank cheque subject to it being valid and eventually cleared, thus the transaction receipt or cert is good as if you had electronically transferred in money to your CASA account.

They would like to know whether there are still any banks who will only issue a receipt, transaction slip or FD cert only after clearance however long or short it takes. In such cases, if the OPR changes, and the bank decides to adjust their promotion or board rates before you get the printed slip, cert or recieipt, did you ever experience cases where the rate was adjusted up or down from the original rate when you went to the bank. So in a way, there is a question of the meaning of "when actually is placement considered effective"?

This question or lack of experience of the sifus and rich folks happens because the kiasu experience is limited/lacking as they always place their FD before and after any OPR change is scheduled. Thank you for your reply on your experience good or bad.

This post has been edited by oldkiasu: Jan 22 2024, 02:11 AM

Any idea of what timing or actions will ensure a high rate of FPX FD placement failure? Even if just a suspected idea, just suggest so that it can be tested out by kiasu members.
Kiasu members are increasingly turning to FPX for some sort of short hedging FD placements. The practical discussion on best practice is how to do it without losing interest, missing deadline of end of promo and avoiding silly actions. Kiasu members do not like to complain, but seek better and more certain solutions.

This post has been edited by oldkiasu: Feb 17 2024, 01:58 PM

Thanks for the input.

Normally kiasu members are aware that ideally banks should program to block any FPX FD placement from any other person's bank account, and thus they try to avoid such a problem/loss.

However, there is some doubt whether programming is strict/good enough to block any FPX from a joint CASA, or whether there is still a loophole concerning the first named in the Joint casa. Perhaps readers can share their recent experiences as to how FPX from joint CASA works or do not work nowadays. We are not at all sure whether all banks FPX programming have reached or amended to a strict standard of only allowing from a sole CASA from the same account holder as we have no idea of their compliance to such a rule or competence/willingness to program properly.

Thanks for the info.

The usual mismatches between conflicting programs for various stages of FD. To err is human especially anything small like sens. It only there is some sense and programmers pay more respect to policies on round down to nearest sen (rdns) or round to nearest sen (rtns). Should one believe a programmer or a bank is competent if cannot handle/avoid sens differences. If can make silly mistakes over basic sens in accounting, how much more careless or slipshod in their design or testing for other matters?

According to kiasu members interest collections, HL TIA is using rdns method nowadays. There is an ongoing observation about whether banks are switching over to rdns or still stuck emulating manual calculator mode of rtns for historic bungling when they started computerising. If the one sen difference is due to using rdns instead of rtns, then just forget about it.

As a side note, it is true that some bank do actually have some programming or transfer problem. For example, transfer 1.00 will only end up transfer 99 sen at destination. If you have been informed by colleagues, then you can look out. But kiasu members have not experience/shared this at HL as to date. Hopefully your case is not the beginning of a migration to a more crazy program by HL by hiring or copying.

This post has been edited by oldkiasu: Feb 18 2024, 01:04 PM

Thanks for the observation.

Some kiasu members say that Affin uses rdns-1 sen calculation to explain the interests they got. (But some member say that the calculation is rtns - 1 sen instead). This is one of the 4 methods of calculaton according to kiasu members used to predict the interests from Malaysian banks.

Knowing this, the kiasu members know that the optimised principal method applicable to other banks does not work at Affin, and they need to give it a tweak to handle the Affin method.
.
Howver, none of the banks are known to use the up-to-the day rdns difference method. The practical result is that either the banks swallow some of your interest or give you extra in cases of periodic payments, or they make adjustments to the payments now and then or at the end to get at the selling price..

This post has been edited by oldkiasu: Feb 18 2024, 11:34 PM

From 1 Jan 2023 for PBB CNY promo for a number of tenors, 24 mth at 4.8% but stopped early.

Public Islamic

https://www.publicislamicbank.com.my/getatt...24)ENG.pdf.aspx

user posted image

This post has been edited by cybpsych: Jan 1 2023, 06:35 AM

Refer to page 1238, post 24784 by cybpsych on 1 Jan 2023.

This post has been edited by oldkiasu: Feb 24 2024, 08:16 PM

Refer to post 24754 page 1238 by cybpsych Jan 1 2023 for PBB Chinese New Year promo for various tenors including 24 months at 4.8%. Promo supposed to stop at end of March 2023 but stopped early.
The following FD promos were also possible in 2023- Ambank 4.30 %, Bank Rakyat 4.22 %, Bank Islam 4.5 %, and Bank Muamalat 4.05%. Not sure why need to place at 4%.

This post has been edited by oldkiasu: Feb 24 2024, 08:59 PM

Last Monday, I placed at Bank Islam for the 4.15 % 6 months promo.

Only can do Over The Coununter OTC. Not compulsory open casa acct.

Ambank uses the 365/366 divisor method to calculate interests, instead of only the 365 divisor method.. Refer to old posts if need to check your calculations. For those who placed at end of month, you may notice a reduction in monthly payment due to shorter February month payment date adjustment rule.

This post has been edited by oldkiasu: Mar 6 2024, 12:17 AM

Am placing at HL TIA at 3.9 % for 6 months after the Bank Islam 4.15 % promo.

This post has been edited by oldkiasu: Mar 18 2024, 12:06 AM

Oops my bad. I meant Bank Islam 4.15 % promo which closed a few days after my last placement. I had no problem with HL TIA so far.

This post has been edited by oldkiasu: Mar 18 2024, 12:07 AM

Just a few operational comments for newbies for HL TIA.

But cannot place OTC, must have HL casa account and internet banking. Also need to deposit in the money into the casa acct first, and then internet apply because uses internet transfer from the HL casa acct, not FPX. Can get receipt which you can print/save or photo if you are nervous, but usually can just take down details for reference.

The only rational choice is to select creditting the principal and profit automatically into the casa account on maturity, and not blunder big time by renewing at TIA board rate which is lower than the promo rate at maturity.

If you need to, you can redeem/break the TIA from the next day after placement ED through internet banking, but of course you only get back principal only. Sometimes good to do that if want to take another better promo that just appears.

Some years ago, when I started placing the HL TIA, it was necessary to answer some risk appetite question on Islamic investment risk first. Don't know if newbies now still need to do this before can do placement after getting a HL casa account and internet/app account. Pls update us what is the present procedure since I cannot do it again to check.

An attractive feature for members compared to other promos. Since the minimum is set at a low RM1000, with subsequnt multiples of RM 100 (what they mean is can place 1100, 1200, 1300 etc), this makes it OK for some kakis to use this HL TIA promo to place thieir daily or weekly business takings, instead of puttimg/waiting/accumulating at low casa interest rate.
.

This post has been edited by oldkiasu: Mar 19 2024, 11:00 PM

Yes, this difference showed up when trying to place on their 6 month efd and eFD-i promo. The advertisement also does not show promo for 10 months at 3.7% Both eFD and eFD-i are at the same rates except that 6 month rates.

On placing 4% FD on Thursday 23 May, was told verbally that the MBSB promo leaflet end date on 30 June 2024 had been extended to 31 July 2024 (subject ot earlier closing if target reached).

Joeblow and iamsexyandiknowit

Good that you observe that you are not getting what you expect.
However, regret to inform you that MBSB and some other banks also employ the 366 divisor for days in 2024 leap year and 365 divisor in 2025 for calculating interest.
This leap year method had been illustrated in this forum before, as one of the different peculiarities when dealing with FD in different banks.

This post has been edited by oldkiasu: May 26 2024, 12:23 AM

The banks mentioned before in various posts. If remember correctly, they were Maybank, Ambank, MBSB.Not sure about RHB as long time did not place FD with them.

One of my kiasu discussion group members felt confused by the latest round of forum postings, and asked about differences between opinions, facts and calculated predictions.

There appears to be some kind of idea that a leap year is 366 days, thus it is ASSumed that it is logical or fair to use 366 divisor for the days in 2024 for the tenor of 1 year. It appears that in one argument, that if one puts in a certain principal, one should still get back the same quantity of interest.

Thus for example, RM 100,000 is placed in a leap year at 4% p.a. at MBSB, then one will get RM 4,000. And if there was a 4% p.a. on a non-leap year, the interest would still be RM 4,000.

Somebody said this is a sucker idea, because never get that RM 4,000 interest in a leap year at MBSB.

One participant who placed regularly and recently at MBSB shared that in reality MBSB will give less interest for a simple reason that seems to have escaped the attention of inobservant FD placers. He says, after 29 February 2024, he only gets 365 days, because there is no longer any leap day, but MBSB still divides by 366 for 2024 days.

This post has been edited by oldkiasu: Jun 11 2024, 10:20 AM

Usually this sort of question can be easily solved on a spreadsheet like the following:-

Rate 5.85
Principal 22500
Date (adjustable) 19
ED 2024 01 19 Fri
NYD 2025 01 01 Wed
MD 2025 01 19 Sun

IBD 2024 (NYD-ED) 348
IBD 2025 (MD-NYD) 18
IBD 366

Profit 2024 (divisor 366) 1251.51639... rtns 1251-52
Profit 2025 (divisor 365) 64.91095... rtns 64.91
Total Profit rtns 1316.43

Deferred Selling Price (Principal+Total Interest rtns) 22500 + 1316.43 = 23816.43

Normally it is important to format the Effective Date cell to show the day using yyyy mm dd nn to avoid silly mistakes like placing on a weekend for OTC FD.

Similarly the Maturity Date should also show the day. It can be seen that it falls on a Sunday. MBSB will simply credit the final amount into your savings account instead of adjusting for extra 1 day on Monday.

It would be beneficial for FD depositor, if the banks format their Effective Date and Maturity Date to show the DAY as well. Let us see which of the banks are genuinely interested in improving their service, presentation and avoiding mistakes. Plenty of great slogans, but let us see if they can even improve on a simple thing like stating the DAY

Just to add on the additional tips on how to do this calculation properly on a spreadsheet in case somebody says Sirius2017 calculation is off by 1 sen and imagines the method he shows is not accurate.

The profit is normally calculated to more than 2 digits initially in this sort of spreadsheet. Usually the rtns and also the rdns profits are shown side by side, so that we can see which rounding method the bank uses. In this case we can see the answer fits using rtns method. RDNS method would have given 23816.42 instead.

Readers may use this illustration and the spreadsheet method to discuss and do their own calculations without resorting to arguments in this forum.

The only date when Year Profit = 22500 x 5.85 = 1316.25 is when ED is 1st January 2024. As posted before, this mathematically proves that such banks using the 366 mehtod can never give the Year Profit when requiring OTC placement as 1st January is a Public Holiday. Anybody who expects that the annual profit for leap year to match the Year Profit does not pay attention to detail that it is impossible.

Anybody who claims that the Effective Rate is a certain same number shows that he did not place more than one FD or did not notice that the Total Profit and Deferred Selling Price and Effective Rate are actually different for each day for the same Principal. People who do not place regularly should pay more attention to the details and not show their lack of understanding and experience on how the banks differ in various calculative ways.

This post has been edited by oldkiasu: Jun 14 2024, 01:20 AM