How banks screw up their FPX instruction.
For some unknown reason, imprecise language rules, as customers are all supposed to think the same way as the bank thinks.
Is it so difficult to write own sole account? Or is it that Ambank intends sole and joint savings account? Why leave any doubt and create problems for customers using FPX?

This post has been edited by oldkiasu: Sep 2 2023, 09:15 PM

Main operative tips for:-

Bank Muamalat Poket Fantastik promo 19 Oct - 30 Nov 2023.
Fixed Term Account-i (FTA-i) / Akaun Berjangka Tetap-i (ABT-i).

6 months (not 12 months) at 4.05 %, OTC minimum 10k fresh funds.
PIDM 250k per group account.

Can ask for options for monthly payment of interest and principal into savings account on maturity.

Deposit slip (no more FD cert). Digital internet SA (no book).

This post has been edited by oldkiasu: Oct 28 2023, 09:11 PM

If you can fulfill the 3 monthly bonus conditions -deposit RM 500, do 3 Jompay transactions, spend RM500 - then can get 3.25% for the 10% locked in the 360 account.
The ER is then 3.25 x 0.1 + 4.18 x 0.9 = 3.782 + 0.325 = 4.087 %

During the 6 months, you will need to spend 500 x 6 = 3000 plus 3 x 6 = 18 jompayments on top of the 10% locked in the OCBC 360 or 360i account. So the actual cost is the sum of what was placed in the 9FD:1SA bundle + RM 3000 + jompayments. It is up to you how you handle the size of the jompayments, and the timing of your monthly deposit and spending to maximise the real return.

Of course it will keep getting less and less Selling Price for same rate even in same month at Maybank (or any bank that follows the 365/366 convention for calculating daily interest).

Each following day, the number of IBD (interest Bearing Days) reduces in 2023, and the number of IBD increases in 2024. SP Selling Price reduces each following day in accordance to the formula IBD for 2023/365 x PR + IBD for 2024/366 x PR + P (principal).

The only way to avoid this rugi is simply not to place in Maybank or other banks following the 365/366 convention for calculating interest when your tenor includes days in a leap year.

It had been that problem all along till the last day of last BR promo when I made my last minute BR promo placement. But cannot uplift the total principals at non-home branch if above 50k.

I was told that day that if the interest was paid monthly or on the last day as instructed during placement, then you can withdraw the principal at maximum of 50k. However for those who did not instruct like that, than 50k+interest is stuck to home branch withdrawal.


This post has been edited by oldkiasu: Nov 24 2023, 03:35 PM

MBSB bank used the 365/366 convention thru the 2020 leap year, but I have not placed any FD with them recently into the 2024 leap year tenor. Maybe some recent MBSB kaki can confirm what is their method now using the calculation method in the post. But not so many people are observant or do their own calculations correctly. FD placer can ask first before placing since we are now already into 2024 leap year tenor unless 1 month tenor FD.


This post has been edited by oldkiasu: Nov 24 2023, 05:42 PM

MBB promo start on 16 Oct 2023, to end on 30 Nov 2023 using FPX for e-Islamic FD-i placement.
6 months at 3.85%.
3 months at 3.6 %.
Minimum RM1,000.
There is no 1 year promo.
MBB board rate for FD is 12 months at 2.8%.

Hope you know what you are doing and getting into by using the given formula I posted to calculate the interest and Selling Price.

The MBB promo info clearly states using 365 and 366 divisor for the days in 2023 and 2024. The formula I posted is just the arithmetic formula meant by those words.

The loss depend on the day you place. If you understand the arithmetic in the formula, you should understand that because of the divisors used, each passing day reduction is not the same amount but at an increasing loss. If you cannot understand, then just calculate for a few days of imaginary placements to prove it to yourself.

Ayambetul- According to my Slylock Kiasu lawyer, it is not a hidden trick because Maybank already wrote about using the 365 and 366 divisor for the leap year. According to this lawyer buruk, they are not obliged to give a longwinded explanation on their inferiority/disadvantage or teach you how to calculate by yourself. If most customers are gullible and like to think that everything is very simple and straightforward and do not bother to think or calculate on a few words in T&C, or observe, test and check the actual real working, that is their own negligence. To him, let the buyer (customer) beware, read the small print and understand its implications and seek expert advice.
According to the Kiasu Fund Managers, it is a real problem whether it is just sens or dollars because they had to explain the discrepancies to their more observant clients and also to manage the real return on investment ratio.

Hedfi- Some practical kiasu discussion members said that our experiences and thinking had already advanced from the last leap year 2020 postings after they were alerted to the situation.
1) Although the method for calculating the IBD for transitting between non-leap and leap years had been mentioned before, the FD investors may not be conversant as it is different from the normal way of calculating IBD.
2) With the introduction of FPX and on-line FD, we are moving away from OTC weekend and holiday adjustments of the Maturity Date and optimum Effective Date choices towards more exact calculation to round down/truncated or the alternative round to nearest sen and final month adjustments for those FD with monthly payment (as Malaysia still uses the above two old simple methods instead of an exact up-to-date difference calculation method which does not need adjustment).
3) The FD public is not educated about the the effect of placement month as this is not discussed usually.

For example, if the FD was placed for 6 months in October 2023, the IBD is 183 days. But placed in November, it becomes 182 days.

Below is a sample calculation
Principal 200,000. Interest rate 3.85%. Tenor 6 months.

ED 2023 10 16 Mon
MD 2024 04 16 Tue
IBD 183
Caln 3860.5479.. (365 convention)

ED 2023 10 16 Mon
NYD 2024 01 01 Mon
IBD for 2023 =77
Caln 1624.3835..
MD 2024 04 16 Tue
IBD for 2024 = 106
Caln 2230.0546..
Total Caln (raw) = 3854.4382..(365/366 convention)

ED 2023 11 30 Thu
MD 2024 05 30 Thu
IBD 182
Caln 3839.4520.. (365 convention)

ED 2023 11 30 Thu
NYD 2024 01 01 Mon
IBD for 2023 =32
Caln 675.0684..
MD 2024 05 30 Thu
IBD for 2024 = 150
Caln 3155.7377..
Total Caln (raw) = 3830.8061.. (365/366 convention)

This post has been edited by oldkiasu: Nov 25 2023, 04:10 PM

Current promos available at HongLeong internet banking

FPX promo
3 m 3.88 %
6m and 8 m 3.90 %
12 m 3.75 %

TIA promo
3m 3.88 %
6m 3.95 %
12m 3.80 %

paramdav - called MBSB HQ - the MBSB promo end date is Tuesday 19 March 2024 as published. Not end of March 2024. Started on Wednesday 20 December 2023.

BWassup- no monthly interest. Principal and interest all creditted into PrimeWin account together with stopping the withholding on the 25% in PrimeWin on maturity even if weekend or holiday - no extra days interest.

Placement have to go there for OTC. Supposed to be 10k minimum per placement using Fresh Fund, but can top-up some renewing from existing maturing FD.

Calculation of interest uses 365 divisor for Interest Paying Days in 2023 and 2025, and use 366 divisor for days in leap year 2024.

The final interest will be different for every day you place a 12 month FD.

For 6 month promo, the interest if placed in December 2023 will keep decreasing for each subsequent day.

This post has been edited by oldkiasu: Dec 21 2023, 03:04 PM

if you had to ask - that means you had never experienced it and thus also do not know how to calculate it correctly.
So without any more calculation or explanation, can safely conclude that both your calculated results are too simple and must be wrong.

This post has been edited by oldkiasu: Dec 25 2023, 10:24 PM

Seems like most readers/posters here did observe that Bank Muamalat sort of extended their ABT-i Poket Fantastik promo for another extra stretch from 1 December 2023 to 31 Jan 2024.

Minimum 10k, 6 months at 4.05 % OTC Fresh Funds.

You have the choice of not having a SA if you decide to OTC withdraw profit and principal on maturity, or choose to auto rollover with add-on profit to principal.

If you choose your profit to be creditted monthly or on maturity, then you must have a savings account for Bank Muamalat to do that for you. This is what the T&C means from the customer angle of SA.

I would like to add more for this competitive rate and monthly profit, but unfortunately am scraping up the money to place in EPF at the end of January 2024. If extend again beyond January, probably likely put in more.

This post has been edited by oldkiasu: Jan 8 2024, 10:21 PM

Oops typo. Thanks for the fast correction

The unpleasant fact is that Ambank is also practicing the 366 divisor for the IBD falling within 2024 leap year. Next month you should get even less as there will not be any IBD in 2023.
Yes it is also happening to my Ambank FD.

First time you do FD with banks like Maybank, MBSB, Ambank over leap year interest calculations? It is an old situation from many years ago.

You collected your interest in mid January 2024. So part of the interest was calculated for the days in Dec 2023 and part was calculated in January 2024. You get more per day in 2023 and less per day in 2024. The formula for such FD had been explained many times before and it has nothing to do with 1 sen or waste ot time. This had always been something to explain to suspicious FD customers by bank staff and fund staff about cheating and taking advantage. All done by the computer brush-off by bank staff is plain stupid and bad customer relationship.

4 main points for newbies to this kind of FD.

1) Totally had no experience and ignorant, and do not appreciate the importance of the formula and its impact on monthly interests payments and payment on maturity. Thus blindly accepting the FD and not knowing what FD interest they are buying into. The formula is Principal x Rate x Days in Leap Year / 36600 + Principal x Rate x Days in Non-Leap Year / 36500.

2) The other problem is do not know how to calculate the number of days for the leap year and the non-leap year. Calculation is always to and from New Year Day 1 Jan if use a spreadsheet..

3) Lack of common arithmetic sense by saying 1 year interest should be the same, which proves has no clue as to the effect of the 365 and 366 divisors.

4) CORRECTION Refer to point 3 above;- The only placement date ED, where you should receive the same nominal interest for 1 year is if you manage to place on 1st January eg 4% of principal 100,000 gets 4,000. However, whether this is even possible to do outside eFD depends on the day it falls on and the impact of the day of MD on transfers out. The actual interest due for all other placement day ED depends on calculating using the 365/366 formula for the particular ED. You are not advised nor encouraged to place on the 1st of January in a leap year for any bank FD using 365/366 divisor method. (Sorry about this, cannot advise or encourage but just note that it means a NO NO. to other implied course of action. This point 4) should be read as when therre is an exception to pont 3 above. Not better or worse actions.


Actually it would make more sense if the banks using this 365/366 divisor system illustrate the 1) and 2) problems with examples in their T&C or FD materials if they had nothing to hide. Usually banks fail to stress the 1 January thus still leaving doubts behind.

This post has been edited by oldkiasu: Jan 21 2024, 03:45 PM

Ambank had promo for 4.3 % for 12 months and 4.5 % for 18 months.
The loss depends on what date the FD is placed for the December 2023 to January 2024 monthly payment.
For pocket change of RM 100k, the loss/reduction per 31 day month is RM 1.00 to RM 1.04 respectively.
For 30 days it is 97 sens to RM 1.01 respectively.

This post has been edited by oldkiasu: Jan 20 2024, 08:39 PM

Ist January 2024 already over. Su the next one is 1st January 2028.
Anyway 1st January is a public holiday and it is impossible to place OTC.
As to the question, can we hope or plan for placing eFD on 1st January 2028?
This actually is a guess that some of these 365/366 divisor banks will have a competitive eFD promo rate running to welcome the leap year.



This post has been edited by oldkiasu: Jan 21 2024, 07:55 AM

Usually not worth the travelling cost for OTC FD unless always spend 1st January in one of those states or stay there. For RM 100k, the loss is only about 3 sen per day So why not stay and place on 2nd January 2028 or even earlier in 2027 if same promo available. Not to forget some banks being particularly troublesome about where you work or stay, and home branch uplift rules and maximum transfer rules and non-availability of transfer methods for big principals and class of banks affecting services. It all boils down to the practical nitty gritty of being able to shift funds and whether source and target banks are opened. Of course, we know that some interstate migrant people like to put joint FD with their parent in one of those states.

Also we need to check the day- 1 January 2028 is a Saturday. But what if bank in state is closed Friday and Saturday, never mind do not observe NYD as PH? Luckily a one year maturity on 1 January 2029 is on a Monday, so no problem with source and target banks being open and working for transfers.

The questions about inter state and inter-nation FD for funding parents or children is one of the major bank issues, but purposely to hop over to a bank in the town next door in a different stete is usually not discussed much except for those living close to border and where a promo is only available in the bank in neighbouring state but no such bank branch in hometown/village.

This post has been edited by oldkiasu: Jan 21 2024, 02:42 PM

You do not wait for Saturday 1 January 2028 of course. What extra RM 31/yr? I apologise my writing so bad to lead to such expectations.

This post has been edited by oldkiasu: Jan 21 2024, 03:54 PM