hahaha if dr strange was dc movie it will get 29% instead of 92%...

if they're gonna use that in Infinity War i hope they're at least going to do it right!

Ending was nice with Thor. Lmao!

in the movie, the authorities named him as a suspect. black panther was the one who explicitly assumed he was guilty



think about it from a law enforcement perspective: you can't just dismiss a potential suspect just because of the possibility of a disguise. you still have to chase every lead to narrow down the list of suspects.

but the trouble is, that would require a longer time for tony to track down buck's location if zemo just sent the video straight to tony. if tony were to use his own resources, how long would that take? days? weeks? months?

by the time he would confront buck, tony would have ample time to collect his emotions and thoughts, think rationally, and possibly do the right thing. that was what zemo wanted to avoid. he wanted tony to react in a burst of emotion where even reasoning with tony wouldn't work. if zemo sent the vid too early, that crucial window to exploit his emotions would have been lost.



zemo was trying to make the most out of the ace in the hole. if it worked? great. if he failed? still can make it work. so why not try if you have the means and opportunity? i certainly would



i see the reg act is as a consequence of what came before, but it does help zemo's plans: the avengers' movements are, i imagine, top secret, so the signing of the accords is one of the few occasions where he would know there'd definitely be avengers and VIPs in one place, so bombing it would potentially kill two birds with one stone: trigger a huge manhunt for buck, and possibly kill some avengers.



i don't think that was part of his plans



buck was caught by someone other than tony. that's why zemo broke him out



it's a gamble, but we're talking about a super soldier here and, again, he's making the most out of the situation. bucky escapes alive? great, onto the next plan. bucky dies? great, one less superhuman freak.

Which is yet another bit of contrived movie logic, isn't it?

Chasing down a lead doesn't necessarily mean with violent force using a guy in a heli with a machine gun. That outright assumes guilt.

Tony tracked down Spiderman, didn't he? A guy with a lot of money and tech can track anyone down mighty fast.

Which is not needed, because "he killed my mum" is an illogical reaction. It just needed the video. If Tony was expected to go ballistic on watching the video, it would have happened without needing to frame Bucky for bombing the UN.

With what did he have the means? Special forces training from a small country? That would totally teach him how to build an ECM device single-handedly.

You would think that a van parked like that would have aroused suspicions before the meeting was even allowed to be held? No vehicle is allowed within a certain perimeter of a meeting of govt officials like the UN unless security knows exactly what it's in it. But Zemo was allowed to park one right there without raising any suspicion at all. Right...

And its like I said...framing Bucky based on visual evidence is seriously contrived. You have a tech to scan the face but not work out body height, build, and whether or not the metal arm is real? Convenient bit of failing on the software, no?

Whatever for? Just show the video since he's right there in front of Tony.

Which is...what plan exactly? Bucky dies, and there is no reason for Tony and Cap to fight anymore. There might be disagreements over the registration act (something Zemo has no control over) but there is little reason for them to confront each other violently anymore...unless he has some other contrived reason. So why even risk the possibility that Bucky might be killed by a 3rd party like Black Panther even?

movie logic? people make assumptions all the time in real life. human beings are flawed



i thought they started using deadly force after he resisted arrest?



now this part i didn't get. how DID tony find spidey?



i wouldn't say it's entirely illogical (because he DID kill his parents, just not of his own free will), but let's say it is:

i mentioned "emotional outburst" earlier. when people are emotional, reason tends to take a back seat. i too have said/done stupid things when i'm upset, even if the logical part of me knows what i'm doing is silly. maybe you're not like that, but not every one can be so calm under stress.



i think we both forgot something: zemo knew of the existence of the video, but he didn't actually have it at the start of the film: it was kept in the secret facility. so he needed to find bucky, who knows the location, first. so the bombing was a way to find him quickly.



innm he was also an intelligence officer. who knows what he was taught/learned himself. as he said, "... I have experience. And patience. A man can do anything if he has those." if he couldn't buy one off the black market, i'm sure he could find instructions on the internet



it was hidden in a press van (a common vehicle seen at such meetings) and discovered during the inspection, but by then it was too late.



and as I mentioned, the authorities still have to explore every lead and leave no stone unturned, even if some things don't match up. this happens in criminal investigations all the time. also, the video footage showed that disguised zemo's arms were hidden, so there's no way to tell for certain if there's a metal arm or not.



as above. he didn't have the video yet. i forgot that detail as well, sorry



true, there's no need for a violent confrontation anymore, but the ultimate aim is to cause a rift. just imagine, cap grieving over buck's death, but tony not willing to offer condolences. their relationship would be extremely strained and could ruin the group dynamics

in this tered dc vs marvel

No.. It's dr strange vs civil war

i'll give it a 6/10

it's not bad, but not my cup of tea

Not quite in that manner. You don't get to be a costumed vigilante by leaping to conclusions.

Going in prepped for deadly force is outright assumption of guilt. Following up a lead means sending someone to ask some questions.

One YouTube video and he knows who Spidey is.

One video of Bucky fleeing and he can't figure out its a fake Bucky. Nice.

Reason doesn't take a back seat to the point where you will use a super-powered suit to go kill someone. You might have done stupid things, but are they stupid on the level of trying to bash out someone's brains? Not to mention how does he go from talking about how powered individuals need to be reigned in and kept under control only to go ballistic himself.

I think you're also assuming that the film was kept in the facility instead of being part of the encrypted Hydra archives that were released to the public in Winter Soldier. Cap seems to know about the video and he does not know about the facility, so it must mean the video is not just stored at the facility.

So you're saying that Zemo lacks the ability to find Bucky by himself so he must engineer a bombing (which really shouldn't have worked) so that someone else flushes out Bucky for him without accidentally killing him (and thus risk losing access to the facility along with the main reason for Cap and Tony to fight), and than he has to take on a disguise to infiltrate a SHIELD facility where he expects to be able to interogate Bucky by himself with no other guards present (an expected and normal security precaution, which is strangely missing and not noticed by observers) just so he can use the control procedure without interference? His plan is riding on a lot of contrived situations that are not always in his control, isn't it?

I think it would have been easier for him to just find Bucky by himself...

One that can knock out your cell phone over a short distance? Sure.

One that can knock out a power grid? Yeah...no. Based on current tech, you need a small controlled nuclear blast. Marvel Universe? Stark could do it. Mr Fantastic probably could (but not in the Cineverse, cos different studio lol). Spidey? Smart guy that he is, this is beyond his ability and access to tech. The actual Helmut Zemo of the comics should also be able to obtain such a device. Mr ex-special forces soldier of some small fictional country Zemo? No chance.

No. That's now how security detail works at such events. Not anymore since the threat of terrorist bombings. Press vans and 3rd party vehicles are expected to arrive for inspection and background checks way before any UN conference even starts before they will be allowed into the perimeter. Once the deadline for that passes, NOTHING is allowed in anymore. You get there late, too fucking bad. You will simply not be allowed in.

So no...there is no such thing as a press van showing up unexpectedly or unnoticed. That just doesn't happen even in our world, and should be less likely to happen in their world. Its someone's job to notice. Heck, its the job of multiple people to notice, for precautions and check/balance.

To put it quite simply, Zemo was also relying on UN security being ridiculously super lax just for his bombing to work.

Not at Stark level tech, no. He can identify Spiderman from a video, he can't pick out a real or fake Bucky?

You really think Tony is that much of a bastard? Plus a strained group dynamic doesn't result in the group destroying each other which was what he objective was.

Oh, and let's just talk about how the fight at the airport, awesome as it was, is just so totally unnecessary when Tony could have just disabled the Quinjet from the start? He funded and built it. He lacks the ability to disable it from unauthorized access? Let's just assume for a moment he forgot this important safeguard...couldn't he like, just blast the thing from the start so that Cap and Bucky have nothing to fly? Not like he can't afford to build another. One of his suits alone costs more than a Quinjet. But oh, hey...let's fight it out and than only think of trying to knock out the jet at the last possible moment. Yeah...

but costumed vigilantes are still human, right?



he's a suspect, but also considered armed and dangerous. after all, there were crimes he DID commit as the winter soldier



but in order to determine it's a fake, one must have a reason to doubt it in the first place. to them, a known hydra agent blowing up a building was more likely than some guy disguising himself as one.



you may not react that way. but as someone who has anger issues, i can totally see myself doing that.



i thought it was encrypted shield archives? sure, hydra infiltrated shield, but their respective archives would not be the same as each other's.
and the vid was a VHS, was it not? also, i was under the impression that cap figured it out from secondary sources he uncovered during his search for bucky



it's a gamble, but to zemo it was worth taking. buck dying would require him to send his secondary sources to tony as the second-best option



i agree with you on this. they could have at least shown him overpowering some guards in the interrogation room.



yeah, assuming that there are no other brainy people in the world and a country can't get their hands on such EMP tech just because it's small...

i suspect the van was already cleared for entry beforehand and he then snuck the bomb in. but that's merely speculation on my part

was stark's tech used on the vid?

i wouldn't call him a bastard. i'd call him just a human being with weaknesses and flaws, just like the rest of us.

outright destroying? no. but i imagine a divided team won't do as well as a well-knit one, which makes them vulnerable when a big threat does come



i think tony didn't blow it up from the start because the jet was intended as a temporary holding cell in the event they managed to restrain them. i agree with the earlier point though. someone mentioned that having such features would slow down the start-up process which is undesirable in emergency situations, but i still think tony should've disabled it in some way or another.

guys, with Time stone taken into account, all that's left is the soul infinity stones am i rite??

and also, about the thor wanting 2 find odin thingy, will it have something to do with Thor Ragnarok?? because i doubt so since Hulk will be in it too

and 1 last thing that bugs me: doctor strange has his own power aside from the Eye of Agamotto, aka Time stones... suppose the MCU follow the comic story lines in which Thanos managed 2 collect all 6 of infinity stones and managed to be all-powerful, then how about Dr.Strange? surely Thanos must face 2 face with Dr in order to acquire it right since he's right now the Sorcerer Supreme, just like how Thanos have to defeat Vision in order to gain the Mind stone on the forehead of Vision...

can't wait to see how the Avengers Infinity Wars story will pan out...Thanos himself at base form is already powerful as it is, if combined all those 6 infinity stones together, damnnn.... how the whole MCU heroes gonna defeat him lol??

-yup.all infinity stone has been reveal

-maybe.because thor2 ending,the odin is actually Loki in disguise

maybe real odin hilang
maybe he hilang case ragnarok to happen

hence thor 3= raknarok

-maybe.maybe thanos need to defeat vision and dr strange.and thor .andd many others

complete the infinity gauntlet

then all the heroes rise from defeat,band together, fight again with thanos and defeat him

the avengers, will avenge

probably thats the flow of the story

This post has been edited by amon_meiz: Nov 1 2016, 10:51 PM

i see i see

and one more thing that's interesting here, it's an excerpt from a website revolving Avengers Infinity Wars that's intriguing to me:

~During the post-credits scene of Avengers: Age of Ultron (2015), Thanos grabs a Gem-less Infinity Gauntlet and says, "Fine, I'll do it myself." The Infinity Gauntlet has been seen in the Marvel Cinematic Universe before, as it can be seen being held in the weapons vault on Asgard in Thor (2011). In a recent interview with Kevin Fiege, he was asked if the post-credits scene in Age of Ultron (2015) was made to fix the continuity error of the Gauntlet being spotted in Thor (2011). He stated "no" as there is in fact more than one Infinity Gauntlet in the MCU.

and here's an interesting read about The 2 distinctive Infinity Gauntlets

Waiting for blu ray

A fan of Mads, Rachel and Bratt.

But not a fan of Benedict.

This post has been edited by Raikkonen: Nov 1 2016, 11:15 PM

As entertaining as this was, I think this can go on forever...

Thanos isn't merely powerful. He's also a crafty bugger. He and Dr Doom are among the few in the comicverse that are proficient in both tech and mystic arts.

Thanos doesn't have to defeat Strange to take the stone. He just need to distract for long enough for a macai to take it and Thanos is more than powerful enough to do that. Especially if he has the other stones to help too.

It would be interesting to see how the movie Infinity War pans out, but in the comcs...well, Thanos didn't exactly lose to the heros and gods assembled to face him but I'd rather not give away spoilers.

Infinity Gauntlet is worth reading. The follow up Infinity War and so forth...not so much...

it already did

tho i appreciate ur effort

keep bumping my thread

thanks bro

thanos = gornamu