Hi, I am at a loss at the moment as I go to the gym about 5 days a week and am watching my diet, staying within 1200 calories. In the past it's been heaps easy for me to lose weight just by watching what I eat, no exercise at all. Now I exercise and watch my diet but it's been a little over a month and only 2kg lost! I am 5'7" and 81.5kg now. I came across this workout and was wondering if it will be any good. Any comments highly welcomed and appreciated. Thank you!

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/wotw12.htm

r u a woman?
ur calorie seems too low

That's very low even for a woman.

I'd die of hunger. LOL.

Even my BMR rate is like 1800-1900 and I'm a girl.

Yes I am. I only started calorie counting 4 days ago. Before that I avoided carbs apart from some fruits but wasn't that helpful so I decided to restrict myself with the calories.

what is your bmr rate?
just reduce 200 - 300 cal from your rate

Estimates:
TDEE 2209
BMR 1607

Comments on the workout?

BMR is the total calorie needed per day even without exercise. You are not supposed to go below BMR. Take your TDEE and minus from there instead. You are still losing weight arent you? Why worry? Are u setting your goals too high ie losing > 10kg per month?

I am hoping to lose 1kg a week. Now i am at a rate of about 200g if at all, a week. I just don't understand why it isn't working. The moment I go about 1700 calories I start gaining weight. It doesn't make any sense at all because I've read many threads basically pointing to weight loss as calories in < calories burned. I am going under AND I don't up my calories on training days either.

1. Have you diet before this? What kind of diet you went through?

2. You are losing weight. Why the fuss? 1kg per week is fine as the ideal weekly weight loss is about 0.5kg to 1kg. Either increase deficit or increase workout intensity. Use TDEE to count your calorie deficit. Not BMR.

3. How accurate are you in deciding your food kcal? Do you weight them or guesstimation?

200g a week? how do u even measure 200g? if its over a month, even 1kg is hard to measure as most scales arent 100% accurate...but perhaps +/- 500gms.
even then 1kg is around 7000cals, which is around 233cal deficit a day.

if u want to lose 1kg a week, so 4kg a month, means u need to be at deficit of around 900-1000 cals a day.
that means lots of cardio, so assuming ur intake calculation is correct, it probably means u are over-estimating the output of the exercise u are doing.

This post has been edited by Everdying: Sep 7 2016, 10:05 AM

Just wondering. You say your weight isn't going down much, and you go to the gym 5 days a week. Maybe its because the weight lost by losing fat, is replaced by the weight gained by muscles?

Noticed any changes in your body measurements?

1. over-estimating calorie output (just imagine the effort you need to run say 10km - 500kcal, and the effort you spend on gym
2. only do cardio (leads to muscle loss, you'll still see your weight drops)
3. water loss
4. eat below BMR > starvation mode
5. you hit plateau

1. I went through quite a bit of diet in the past, always lose a good number and then throughout the years because of stress and other issues put them back again. I lost 23kg in about 4 months not doing any exercise at all, just watching food a year ago. I've gained about 10kg back since then which is why I wanted to change it, but this time including gym.

2. I am losing barely any weight at all. Regarding workout, that's why I shared the link to ask for comments but so far nobody has commented on it.

3. I weigh everything I eat. I used to eat fruits but now limit either 1 plum or 100g watermelon. Also my mum cooks my food so I weigh all the ingredients separately before she cooks.

I am sorry I don't know how to do multiple quotes so will have to reply one by one.

I measure every morning on a digital scale and also at the gym. Went from 81.6kg to 81.4kg this week.

I have a personal trainer and I spend an hour at the gym, no matter cardio or weights, not including warmup and stretching time after. My trainer is also frustrated because I am not losing weight and he thinks it's my diet because he sees me train at the gym.

I thought that too but I looked up and it said muscle gained in a month for a female only about 250g to 500g. Measurements haven't changed although muscle feels harder than it used to be.

1. I don't know how much it is on weights days but on cardio days about 800-900 calories which I see on the screen.
2. Weights too.
3. I drink about 1.5L of green tea (2 tea bags in massive tin cup) and 1.5L plain water daily. That should be enough, no?
4. Eat above and gain weight. I'm scared now. Maybe the weight gain is temporary and I need to do it for longer. Will try for a week see how it goes.
5. After a month ish? Is it possible?

Thank you everyone for replying. Can someone also please have a look at the workout on the link and let me know what you think? Thank you!

same thing, not all digital scales are 100% accurate.
i have one of those omron ones, specs clearly state +/- 600gms accuracy.

1. Like the one you only eat 1 meal per day or FRUITS-only diet? Starve-like diets?

2. There is no best workout to lose fat. Hence, no one touches on it.

3. I don't know why you drink so much Lolol. I barely drink 2L per day. IIRC, recommended water intake is about 2L/daily.

4. Yes, I understand but you must eat according to your TDEE, not below BMR. You are spoiling your metabolic rate.

screen? treadmill?
what are u doing to burn that much? or is the screen inaccurate?

I believe u need to shift yr focus on monthly week lost instead of weekly or daily. Fluctuations occurs every single day. Be consistent in yr nutrition n training. I will somehow say long term (say a month or two) on 1200 calories wrecked yr body metabolic rate. A sudden shift from say 2000 calorie n no exercise to 1200 calorie n 5 days gym will for sure help initially then plauteau. It may seem like a counter movement, but i suggest yo up yr calories, reduce gym days. Reset for a week or two then slowly add up again. Fat loss is a very dynamic process. Make sure in yr arsenal an array of tools. When one work, keep going till plateau or slows down, then add another strategy.

Example: reduce calorie 200 n cardio once a week. Plateau, reduce to 300 n up cardio twice a week. Plateau, calorie stays the same, one liss n one hiit. Variation of arsenal available is necessary to acheive yr goals. Going too fast too furious n u will run out of arsenal very soon. Take it from a guy (me) who had lost 25kg this past 6 months n keeping it off till now.

Ps: workout u mentioned are normal, i say select any that you can adhere to.

I thought if I based the measurements at the same time on the same machine then it would be alright. Like if it is out by 600g then it'll be consistently out by 600g, no?

Also regarding the calories, it's about 650 calories for 30 mins on cardio wave machine and 200 calories on cross trainer. Sometimes I get bored of cross trainer so I mix it up with bike or full incline speed walking but I always start with cardio wave machine because it burns the most calories per minute for me. Trainer wants me to burn at least 1000 calories every cardio session so he already isn't satisfied with what I am doing.

I may suggest trying intermittent fasting too. I had great result losing 3kg in 8 weeks. Mind you, im cutting from <15% body fat to roughly 11-12% where 4 packs is visible.

1. Yes I had ones like that before but the 23kg weightloss was based on low carb diet. Well I started with mindful eating and always had one glass of water before I eat so I ate whatever I wanted but only until I am full. I still ate ice cream. Eventually ice cream portion becomes smaller and smaller to the point where it disappeared and only ate healthy, whole food. I made sure to have at least 30g protein per meal but I never calculated calories.

2. I used to drink 5L a day so this is a reduction already.

3. Thank you, I will now do it for a week see how it goes.

possibly, but 600gms is too minute and not worth the time to really measure.
one can lose 2kg just in water from body...or 300gms just from going to toilet

as for calories...i think that machine is grossly over-estimating.
u should get / borrow a HRM from someone, preferably from garmin or mio, then see what it says in terms of calories burnt.

Thank you so much. At the moment I am really scared to gain weight so I am not willing to let go of gym days but will try upping my food intake. If that doesn't work then I will reset and follow your advice. I appreciate it though, so thank you again.

Hmm....maybe that's it. I'll get one and report back when I do. Thank you.

Recently saw this video.

Hope it's helpful.



This post has been edited by Raikkonen: Sep 7 2016, 11:59 AM

Reads the title and it's scooby, lol no thanks.

Cardio is just a tool nothing else.

well depends on what you do in the gym and what your goal(s) is/are.

and dont be too rigid with what the scale reads.

Can anyone tell me the normal daily calorie intake for 25 yr old man to keep the weight?

Sometimes when u weight daily, the difference you see might be just water loss from body so it's no accurate. It's better to weight yourself like once every 2 weeks or once a month.

Example, on the same day I weight at morning is xx KG but when I weight at night it's XX+2 KG. I was thinking how the hell I can gain 2KG in just 1 day @@

You are a fking grown man. Still need spoon feeding. Everyone has a different maintenance TDEE.

Go Google TDEE calculator.

weight is not accurate measure of fitness.

the more muscle u build, the heavier u will weigh.

Huh? Since when 1 pound of muscle is heavier than 1 pound of fat?

Eat above BMR will not make you gain weight, eat above TDEE will.
BMR = energy that keep you alive
TDEE = BMR + energy used for exercise, walk, run, move

WTF?!!
Your TDEE is 2209 and BMR is 1607 and you eat only 1200
1200 - 1000(cardio) = 200, 200 is the energy you have to keep yourself alive and you need at least 1607 daily.
Wonder how you're still alive
Do you actually get your number correct?

Since never, who told you that?

This post has been edited by helven: Sep 8 2016, 06:30 PM

Thats exaggerating

Human can survive 2 weeks with no food just water

No body will die on 1200 calories.

Understand the law of diminishing point, you wont lose weight steadily 1kg every single week. It will get harder as you lose more weight even if you done everything right which is impossible because everything, EVERY calculation regarding calories are just closest estimation at best, from the amount of calories you burn, to the amount of calories you eat, are all close estimation and no 100% accurate, and also many factors to count in like your metabolism, body type, current muscle mass, fat mass etc etc etc.

Cardio?

Jogging for 1 hour, 2-3 times a week helps.



Be patient.

Take it slow.

There's no shortcut.

2kg in a month is a lot but as long as it does not harm your health, it's ok.

0.500 grams - 1kg a month is good enough.

This post has been edited by Raikkonen: Sep 11 2016, 01:16 PM

Dude. Just a Figure of speech alright. Seriously. Face palm.

That is true but I weigh myself every day at the same time under as close a condition as I can make it. I also stop my food intake at the same time each day. Once you weigh yourself consistently for a few months you start to have a feeling for what your body is like. I am not saying it's good though. It is definitely something I am trying to make myself do less. Almost like an addiction really.

You're talking to someone who used to withdraw from water and food completely for 3 days for a stupid reason. Also when I used to dance, my partner once complained that I was too fat so I made a deal with him that I lose weight and he learns his steps correctly. Lost about 10 kilo in a month, surviving on nothing but one carton of milo a day, those like 250ml ones. On top of that I was jogging on treadmill 30 mins a day and practising dance 4 hours minimum. Fainted once on the treadmill. So yes, if I survived that I think I can survive being on 1200 calories.

I understand. It's just frustrating because I am at the start and so little progress so I am worried it will get even slower.

UPDATE

It's been about a little over a week since I started having 1700 calories and 4 days since IF. Can I just say I feel so much more alive? I didn't realise how dead I was, being on 1200 calories. The first few days were great, I went from 81.5kg to 79.9kg in about 3 days. Stayed there for a couple of days then went to 80.6kg for another 2 days. The next day I got frustrated as I was gaining weight and earlier during the day I did like 2x10 of chest press, chest fly, tricep pullover, hammer curl, tricep kickback, bicep curl and shoulder press all with dumbbells and got so tired I could barely finish my shoulder press. I just couldn't do anything else after that. I felt rather bad and that night ate heaps. That was 2 days ago. I haven't weighed myself properly since so I don't know what it is now. Normally when I weigh myself in the evening about 7pm, I will weigh about 1kg heavier than I do the next morning so I can sort of predict it. I just weighed myself and it said 80.6kg. Also I only did upper body workout this week as I injured my knee, which totally sucks. Not sure if it helps but current stats:

170cm
80.6kg
35.6% body fat
TDEE 2209
BMR 1607

This post has been edited by laucy.my: Sep 15 2016, 08:58 PM

Also, I have got some questions. I find it rather difficult to hit my protein without going over on either carbs or fat. Currently hoping to fit macros as
85g Carbs
170g Protein
76g Fat
Most days I get about 130g protein and I would have maxed out on the calories already. Help?


How much chicken is in 2 servings of chicken breast at a chicken rice stall?

Mum is finding it hard to cook for me as she has to measure things for me and I don't have time to cook so some days I find myself at KFC because I can measure the calories and macros easier but of course it is not ideal. Mum also doesn't allow me to eat chap fan because she thinks they are really unhygienic. Any suggestions on this? Maybe a healthier place I could go to which isn't chap fan or KFC?

Also I see a lot of people stressing over wholemeal bread over here. Did you know that it is not possible to have the bread you're used to having if it really was made with 100% wholemeal flour? It'll be like rock. Super dense and not fluffy. The average wholemeal bread only has 1/3 wholemeal flour, unless they put some chemicals in it or whatsoever to make it like normal bread, I don't know.

Stick with 130g protein, thats good enough unless you are on steroid that you nead heaps of protein. You are on a cut anyway so that much protein you wont make much muscle anyway on such low calories, those protein are just gonna be consume as energy.


I have lost considerable weight on whole meal bread diet, as long as you are watching your calories intake and eat whole foods. Make your whole meal bread sandwich with cucumber, lettuce, tomatoes, capcicum, eggs, chicken or tuna.

85g carbs is too low... Yr metabolism will slow down for sure over time. Yr gym training will suffer, not to mention u will have mood swing. Remember yr in for the long run n such nutrition may not be sustainable.

this :



You are going to destroy your body by deficit so much under your BMR. Even you are losing weight, most probably you have damaged your body / internal organ due to malnutrition. That's nothing to be proud off.

And you didn't lost weight on the scale even u starve so much, high possible your system is messed up. You said drink 3L of liquid per day, maybe your body is not passing the liquid out properly, hence the weight.

I would strongly recommend you go get everything back to correct way, take it slowly and stop weighting every day, just weight 2/3 times a week will do. Body weight fluctuate everyday, due to liquid and glycogen stored in muscle.

This post has been edited by DonLeeMax: Sep 27 2016, 10:25 AM

Took your advice. Changed to 130g and feeling much happier that I am able to hit it more consistently. Thank you

My BMR is now 1479. I've been hovering around 78kg and 79kg for almost 2 weeks, still not really knowing what to do since I've changed a few things but no results. I found this article rather interesting though http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/starvation-mode/ let me know what you think.

I think it's unlikely that I count my food wrong but I'll try be more careful now see if it's different.

There is no way you can NOT lose fat on 1200 cals and below for a female. No way. I know, because having coached female clients, the laws of thermodynamics still apply.

It's either under reporting calories

or

water retention which can mask fat loss/weight loss.

Water retention is highly unlikely if the carbs are low... Unless sodium intake is high? Weight loss is not a linear trend either. There will be plateau...somewhere somehow... My weight plateau for abt a month before going down again... Not too concern as thr key is to be consistent

Wrong. Don't underestimate the effects of chronic cortisol elevation. Especially in women. Cortisol, renin angiotensin system, water retention. Women as light as 40-45kg can experience fluctuations of 4-5 kgs even.

I did, but it was extremely slow. Lost a bit more when I bumped up to 1700 cal and started IF, so now averaging around 1300-1400 cal. The strange thing is that when I didn't workout I'd lose weight just by watching food (hurt knee 2 weeks ago) but since I went back to the gym weight stays put or goes up. Is there anything that can be done about water retention if that's the problem?

Yes. Stop doing IF, stop getting stressed, stop obsessing and stop going so low cals.

Yes boss! Probs can't help the stress bit but will stop IF, go back to 1700 cals and limit obsession ok?

Since DL brought up a few term which caught my attention, anyone mind to explain these in layman term, I googled, but I don't understand what they say.

These what I understand, please correct me if I'm wrong.
Cortisol - base on my understanding it is a kind of stress hormone which slows down the fat burning, high stress = high cortisol level = slow fat burning. Does this affect women the most? Or men are equally affected by this issue too?
chronic cortisol elevationrenin - too technical, I don't understand, someone please explain?
angiotensin system - too technical, I don't understand, someone please explain?
water retention - out body try to retain the water, I'm not sure why is it but base on what I know, salt is one of the popular cause https://authoritynutrition.com/6-ways-to-re...ater-retention/

This post has been edited by helven: Sep 30 2016, 11:45 AM

https://adrenalfatigue.org/cortisol-adrenal-function/

Angiotensin renin in layman terms regulate yr blood pressure, uptake/excretion of sodium & potassium from yr body. It is technical. Lol

This post has been edited by bafukie: Sep 30 2016, 01:52 PM

Chronic cortisol Elevation = Long term elevation of cortisol ? (Chronic = usually refers to "long periods of time" when diagnosing diseases in contrast to "Acute" which usually means otherwise)

Water retention , probably related to RAAS (Renin angiotensin-aldosterone system) due to re-absorption of sodium from the kidney into the circulation which causes water to "follow" (layman term explanation lol), or it could be other factors. RAAS affects alot more than just sodium blood concentration, BP , etc....Here's a brief diagram

This post has been edited by kshen: Oct 2 2016, 07:43 PM

Weight loss is soooo simple and this thread has tuned into some advance medical bio science class.... dafuk?

U know u look like a duck when commenting on weight loss when yrself does not haf the experience going through nor helping others with success

I can gain and loss how much weight I want whenever I wan, or take my bodyfat from 15% to 10% and back to 15 whenever I want.
I also helped people lose weight before.

Laucy,
Maybe go to https://www.t-nation.com/ and read a few articles? There are some good contributors especially relevant to female there.
There is really no short cut on body transformation, it's gonna take time.
Good luck.