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 USA Stock Discussion v8, Brexit: What happens now?

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AVFAN
post Apr 17 2020, 12:24 PM

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QUOTE(cybermaster98 @ Apr 17 2020, 12:08 PM)
I know we are all confused with the stock market movement this past 2 weeks. Let me put this into perspective.

Positive news driving the US stock market up now is:

1) US Federal Reserve stimulus plans
2) Trump opening up economy early
3) Potential new drug for Covid (not vaccine)
4) Daily infection rate in US is stable

Potential negative news (not happened yet):

1) Worse than expected impact to Q1 & Q2 corporate earnings
2) Unemployment rate >30% (current 22%)
3) Worsening of pandemic once lockdown is removed
4) Crude oil prices drop <$16

The positive news is already happening while the negative news hasnt happened yet.

So of course stock market will go up. Its driven by current sentiment and the current sentiment is positive.

Simple logic.
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yep.... all the big shocker -ve news are out, pretty much absorbed.... will need new big shockers to bring big angry bear. biggrin.gif

meanwhile, with so much cash lying around, every small bit of +ve news will cause market to rally... becos people are dying to go back in! laugh.gif


crude... think little chance for WTI to go above $20 for some weeks/months.

unless the usual hiccups occur... terror bombings, big storms shutting down production, war skirmishes somewhere....

on the other hand, some opec+ members may cheat and not keep quota... even more crude flooding the market.
AVFAN
post Apr 17 2020, 12:38 PM

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QUOTE(Raymond_ACCA @ Apr 17 2020, 12:30 PM)
Most major banks reported a 30++% increase in their investment trading revenue. When everyone is waiting for the dip.. the dip might not happen as money keep flowing to the stock market. These money are fresh funds where even those who never invested before are starting to invest in the US stock market.

Although that being said:
"Anecdotal reports, while encouraging, do not provide the statistical power necessary to determine the safety and efficacy profile of remdesivir as a treatment for Covid-19,"

The term anecdotal itself looks like a pump and dump scheme  blink.gif . Trade with caution..
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at the end of the day, the price of an equity "should" be based on the earnings.

however, these are strange special days with so much cash old n new... they have to go somewhere.

perhaps we might get to a situation where the price of a stock can be v high even if it has negative earnings.

not that far fetched actually since some bonds are already giving negative yields.

i.e., not so much to get a return but to protect against a bigger loss in net present value terms.

This post has been edited by AVFAN: Apr 17 2020, 12:40 PM
AVFAN
post Apr 17 2020, 08:25 PM

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QUOTE(ChAOoz @ Apr 17 2020, 08:10 PM)
Long Term QE effect: Inflation on broad basket of item as value of money goes down.

Short Term QE effect: Inflating asset class, as this is where the money flow in the fastest

If we have learned something from last financial crisis is that free, cheap and easy money will always flow into equities first and subsequently other asset class. Last round of QE already benefited asset holder so much, if we din't take advantage of Global QE 2.0 we would be a fool.

If you look closely, equities has already become even more inflated. AAPL has gone back to their dec 19 highs as if the covid19 and china/US retail store shutdown never happened. So in value wise, AAPL has actually become more expensive. Their market cap remain at dec 19 level, but their profit definitely not comparable. Forward PE has definitely gone up by a fair margin.

But the bargain hunter within me cannot buy it even though I know helicopter money is inflating it to infinity and beyond. Oh well, lets hope market gets rational soon and we see a correction nearer to the true value. Or either QR out and people got shock. Fighting my FOMO to wait for either one to materialized.
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but u c... that's the problem...

we know something is not right but it may not surface in the next 3, 5, 10 years.

what is going on is basically a postponement of some big problem into the future.

then again, people alive today aren't that interested in a time when they are r dead (or in a hospital tongue.gif ).

here, watch this - the 4th wave:
https://www.cnbc.com/video/2020/03/26/is-a-...sis-coming.html

AVFAN
post Apr 20 2020, 10:46 PM

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QUOTE(Chengi @ Apr 20 2020, 06:23 PM)
i'm actually thinking of starting a new thread with a friend to provide our view on any instrument but I am not sure when i want to start.
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i think u shud go ahead and start a new thread - dedicated to charts, serious chart talk.

QUOTE(cybermaster98 @ Apr 20 2020, 10:10 PM)
So if i want to buy WTI how do i go about doing it?
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USO.
https://www.investopedia.com/articles/marke...est-oil-uso.asp
AVFAN
post Apr 20 2020, 11:42 PM

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HEY GUYS, EBOUGH.

PLEASE MOVE YR QUARRELS TO ANOTHER THREAD.

WE ARE NOT INTERESTED.

PLEASE SHOW SOME ETIQUETTE.
AVFAN
post Apr 21 2020, 12:11 AM

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QUOTE(yok70 @ Apr 21 2020, 12:07 AM)
i was confused too before, but after the explanations from teachers here, i think i understand it now.
the answer to your question is, NO. The idea is this. All ETFs that trace oil futures, when they need to renew contracts, they will spend a few days to do the switch. ie, as for today is April, they need to switch from holding May contracts into holding June contracts. They sell May contracts, and use the money to buy June contracts. You see, they won't make profit by switching into June contracts just because June contracts price are higher. In fact, they need to sell more contracts to buy less contracts because of the price spread.
Please correct me if i was wrong.  notworthy.gif
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essentially correct.

keep in mind when u buy say, USO, u are buying the units of the USO etf; u r not directly buying any oil contract with a price.

the value of the ETF remains unchanged at the time/point it crosses over from month A to month B.

This post has been edited by AVFAN: Apr 21 2020, 12:12 AM
AVFAN
post Apr 21 2020, 12:17 AM

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QUOTE(cybermaster98 @ Apr 21 2020, 12:15 AM)
Did WTI crude oil just drop to $8.80??
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yes, spot price.
AVFAN
post Apr 21 2020, 12:24 AM

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QUOTE(foofoosasa @ Apr 21 2020, 12:19 AM)
according to some analyst will drop to $2. hmm.gif  hmm.gif ......
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possible, maybe even negative!

becos there storage space is running out.


the saudis must be amused now... the shale producers will have to shut down at this time.


AVFAN
post Apr 21 2020, 12:41 AM

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QUOTE(foofoosasa @ Apr 21 2020, 12:35 AM)
anyway despite WTI spot price drop like more than 50%, dow jones still like standing still. weird....
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it's only WTI.... landlocked, cannot go to sea for storage.

brent is still $27... can store the crude in sea tankers... until all full!!

situation may be just temp... as everyone's dumping the contracts, unable to take delivery.
AVFAN
post Apr 21 2020, 12:58 AM

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QUOTE(cybermaster98 @ Apr 21 2020, 12:44 AM)
So when do you think it will start impacting the stock market or the O&G stocks?
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O&G stocks are already hit... i think worse to come.

at this time, i think the broader market is decoupled from oil; all eyes fixated on covid19 cure/vaccine.

and mr trump has planned to re-open the economy, right?!

but i am skeptical it will all return to normal so soon.



add... WTI now $5.50.

This post has been edited by AVFAN: Apr 21 2020, 01:02 AM
AVFAN
post Apr 21 2020, 01:08 AM

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live in 3 mins... oil ETF.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/20/watch-now-e...idend-etfs.html
AVFAN
post Apr 21 2020, 01:31 AM

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QUOTE(cybermaster98 @ Apr 21 2020, 01:23 AM)
Im still skeptical as to why there is no broad based impact to the US stock market with WTI now at $2.80. S&P500 is only down 0.80%. Do they see something we dont?
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wait till wed, we will see what WTI will become after the may contracts expire.

from the short live video i just watched, USO has 25% interest in these contracts but is not relevant becos it rolled over to jun and jul 2 weeks ago.

it is the rest that are now dumping as expiry nears. and this dumping will cease tmr.

as USO lost <8% today, i wud expect WTI to be around $21-22 later in the week vis-avis brent at $26 or so.
AVFAN
post Apr 21 2020, 01:45 AM

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QUOTE(yok70 @ Apr 21 2020, 01:41 AM)
The WTI May contract will expired tomorrow before or after market opens?
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end of today.

now at $1.04.

u want cheap crude, buy now, take it, put in yr backyard? biggrin.gif

transport cost will kill u...

This post has been edited by AVFAN: Apr 21 2020, 01:47 AM
AVFAN
post Apr 21 2020, 12:10 PM

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QUOTE(joeblow @ Apr 21 2020, 02:22 AM)
Never bought USO ETF via IB before. Any experts here? Just look for USO under ETF and buy? What's the fee like? Thanks.
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sure u can like any other counter.
u can even short it normally but under extreme conditions, short selling may not not allowed at certain times.
fee is among the low... $1 per buy/sell.
take note current USO is in june, jul futures. the june one will expire on may 19 but will roll over 2 weeks before that.
USO has been practicing this for some time now.

QUOTE(joeblow @ Apr 21 2020, 02:31 AM)
Ya I guess I am blinded by greed. Just checked, costs about same as stocks. Max 0.1% of value. Correct me if I am wrong, this ETF trades on the oil price futures right? Meaning profit and loss based on the value of oil? Higher oil price means higher profit or is it determined by the managers of the fund when they price in the expected contracts price for eg June?
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b4 u trade, gotta read up how it works... esp on contango and backwardation.
currently in big contango, i.e. spot price much cheaper than futures.

This post has been edited by AVFAN: Apr 21 2020, 12:14 PM
AVFAN
post Apr 21 2020, 12:47 PM

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almost like a thriller...

QUOTE
Oil Spirals Below Zero in ‘Devastating Day’ for Global Industry

..U.S. crude futures plunged below zero on Monday for first time
..Rout will send a deflationary wave through the global economy
..West Texas Intermediate futures have been the benchmark for America’s oil industry for decades, seeing the market through booms, busts, wars and financial crises, but no single event holds a candle to this. By the end of trading, the contract had slumped from $17.85 a barrel to minus $37.63.
..The largest crude ETF, known as the U.S. Oil Fund, received billions of dollars in fresh funds in recent weeks, accumulating a fifth of all the outstanding contracts in the May futures contract. But last week, it rolled its position into the June contract, and evaporated from May. Without the fund, the contract was abandoned to the the forces of physical supply and demand.
..Prices rebounded back above zero on Tuesday, but still were trading at just $1.38 a barrel at 12:21 p.m. Singapore time.
..The contract settled at minus $37.63, a drop of $55.90. And there’s still another day of trading to come before it finally expires.
“The May crude oil contract is going out not with a whimper, but a primal scream,”

..Many refineries and pipeline companies told producers on Monday that they would only take their oil if they were paid.
..Trump responded to the negative prices at a White House press conference Monday with plans to fill the spare space in the Strategic Petroleum Reserve and by saying he would look into a proposal to stop shipments of Saudi Arabian oil that are currently en route to the U.S.

user posted image

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/202...nd=premium-asia


AVFAN
post Apr 21 2020, 12:49 PM

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QUOTE(yok70 @ Apr 21 2020, 01:41 AM)
The WTI May contract will expired tomorrow before or after market opens?
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my bad... looks like one more day, today.
AVFAN
post Apr 21 2020, 09:43 PM

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mr trump now has his chance to save usoil - ban all incl saudi imports, shut down shale, throw in 1 trillion n buy up all the excess crude.

will/can he do it?! tongue.gif

AVFAN
post Apr 21 2020, 09:57 PM

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QUOTE(yok70 @ Apr 21 2020, 09:49 PM)
interesting suggestion!

USO stops moving? halt?
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think some glitch or circuit breaker kicked in.

back now.

overall market still strong, no panic.

maybe trun green later, u never know!
AVFAN
post Apr 22 2020, 12:33 AM

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oh boy... WTI is falling off the cliff again.

june futures now -44% in just half a session!

USO 2.60

at this rate, -ve prices will deja vu by friday.

if u r holding USO by then, will u need to pay extra to sell it?!!

This post has been edited by AVFAN: Apr 22 2020, 12:34 AM
AVFAN
post Apr 22 2020, 12:49 AM

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QUOTE(Raymond_ACCA @ Apr 22 2020, 12:43 AM)
What's the risk of the fund closing?
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no idea.

m glad i cut loss last night.

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