and u have to wait 2 years for its performance as the gtx 970 how is not a diappoinment as its just about the same price?

u answer ur own question. its 1200 and perform as gtx 970 which is available 2 years ago. it doesnt change the market

i could get a used custom gtx 980(which is better) at 1300. or a used 970 at 1k +/-

ya its a new card but its a shitty reference with bad oc. custom will cost more

It doesn't change the market....yet here you are stating that you can get used GTX980 for RM1300 and GTX 970 for RM1000...
May I ask you one thing dear fellow LYN forumer, how much is the asking price of these used graphic cards used just a mere a month and a half ago?

I am a consumer, I don't give a fuck what or which company do as long as I benefit from either of them.
So please spare me these disappointments of yours and focus on the fact.

LOL you guys keep praising Nvidia's GTX 970.

Looks guys, GTX 970 is 2 years old, even 1 month ago still costs RM 1,700 and draws some 200W when in operation.

If RX480 is exactly like GTX 970 then I do understand your disappointment but this is not the case. It performs like GTX 970 at around 60% power consumption and at around 60% the price.

Another thing that you guys are doing wrong is you assume that all RX 480 is having power draw issue which is not the case.

This is unlike Nvidia's GTX 970 that's 3.5GB + 5GB confirmed for ALL of it.

Credit where it's due man. In every new generation of card there will be something that replaces the performance of another, RX 480 did just that with lower price and lower power draw.

Take the GTX 960 for example. It draws more power than RX 480, and performs like R9 380 and costs a bit more than the R9 380. With the RX 480, the GTX 960 doesn't even look attractive when priced at RM 800 range.

Anyway while you guys are insisting it's a disappointment, I will now go sulk at one corner because I am now not able to sell my GTX 960 / R9 390 for good price.

Funny right? RX 480 has accomplished something that till date not card has done, not even from Nvidia and yet people are just looking at performance aspect.

Like that we can say GTX 1070 also disappointment because that performance range was already accomplished by GTX 980 Ti.

the thing is, once the sellers of 970s caught wind of the 480's issues, what's stopping them from jacking up the price higher? Those who dont, kudos to them, but when the potential buyers dismisses the 480 due to its myriad of problems, what other options is there left? Save up another RM600 for 1070. Wait for 1060. Buy a 2 year old tech that is the same as what they expected from 480. Kinda harsh options if you ask me.

I was looking at the LYN garage sales, there were at one time selling at below RM1k, at RM950 obviously it was jumped upon and thread closed. Now? Even the cheapish Leadtek ones are asking for RM1050 used. Some even do a "PM me" too instead. Sellers knew they can push the card prices higher when can take advantage of the RX480 fiasco.

RX480 is the Maxwell of AMD. That excitement is one year back. It's like saying Proton Saga is good and efficient by Malaysian standards, when the rest of the world have moved on beyond wonky automatic windows and tin milo crumple bonanza.

That is true, but that price drop isnt SOLELY because RX480 came into the market, it happens on EVERY new graphics card launch. New cards gets priced in the price bracket where the card it is replacing/competing against is, and the old ones are pushed to EOL and drops in price further.

Every. Single. Time.

So because of that, it isn't something worth cheering about.

I'll give props to AMD if they actually stayed true to the USD199/239 price back here. Saying that AMD has no control over price here does not negate the fact that is no longer USD239 here, more closer to like USD300. And because of that, you get the 970 secondhand market pricing just meandering around where it is right now. Because at the current pricing of USD300/RM1249-1299, 970 secondhand sellers can still sell them at RM1000/1050 because of the RX480 problems now, and potential buyers looking to fill an empty PCIE slot, when the 970 price could have been lower, if the RX480 hadn't been riddled with problems, even at that RM1249/1299 pricetag.

Performance to watt, yes it can be said so.

But should look at it from the perspective that neither side has a card that provides this P:P:P ratio so far, at RM 1300 price point of course. The only other card with better P:P:P is GTX 1070.

I think this generation's launch (Pascal vs Polaris) is seen as such because the launch has gone askew from what was previously done before. Traditionally, AMD and Nvidia shows their higher end offerings first and then trickle down to their more mainstream and budget cards. This time, AMD went budget first, and Nvidia went higher end. That gap subconsciously made AMD look bad with the 480 being compared to the 970 because there are no Pascal equivalent yet. When 1060 launches, then the comparison to 970 will fade away.

And the 1070 is not exactly that far off out of reach, at RM1999. This Titan X equivalent was RM3000 and above before. If the RX480 was priced at RM850-950 where it should be, then it will look pretty massive to stretch your Ringgit to get the 1070. With the overbloated price of the current RX480 in the market, the 1070's RM1999 price looked reachable. And with the 1060 coming, and will probably slot nicely around RM1500, and where's the appeal of RX480 once that happens?

Like I said, please, please spare me of you and that other forumer disappointments.
I am not interested on talking about any of these cards in particular, I am only interested on talking about the effect of these cards on the markets, the context of these conversation and argument.

Should I BEG you to spare me from all these nonsense, out of context blurb you're spouting?

You've SPECULATED that GTX 970 owners will start to haggle for higher price but how can they do that when a NEW GTX 970 can be acquired for less than RM1200? If you want a better cooler splurge a bit more for Palit Jetstream for RM1350, NEW. There's a couple more choices that can be bought if you can stretch your budget a bit.

Soon the market will be filled with amazing lineups from both side, GTX 1060 from Nvidia, partner boards for RX 480 and AMD RX 470 that is expected to offer an even better price/perf than RX 480.
Manufactures are already anticipating these and starting to rebate the distributor, and soon, we, as a fellow customer, will reap a benefit out of these healthy rivalry.

Not a speculation when it already happened.

https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...ts+GTX970+RM950

An RM950 970 was sold previous and now it has risen above RM1000 because of the RX480 mess. So spare me your conjectures as well. They dont need to haggle, AMD's RX480 mess has done that for them. Potential buyer says, I offer you RM950, seller says nope, I want RM1xxx. Buyer say he go for RX480. Seller says okay. Buyer saw RX480, and now stuck, wanna take the risk with all those mess, or go back to the current 970 sellers with their RM1xxx priced secondhand cards.

I dont give a fuck about you vulturing about market pricing, it is how you surmised that is solely because of RX480's doing. Because that is far from what historically it was: every new launch, old cards drops price. So what if 2 months ago it was 1300 and now it's 1000? Oh it's because of the 480 came out? It's bound to happen to all graphics cards secondhand market price the longer you wait, to the point the new cards come in and replaces the old ones. Wait even longer? Price drop even further, whooptie-fucking-doo. Not even the epiphany level revelation worth mentioning. If price is your sole currency and not performance (or its disappointment against what it should be priced as rather than what it is right priced right now), then by all means, wait even longer.

This post has been edited by stringfellow: Jul 5 2016, 05:04 AM

Ehh but you know, the RX 480 (at RM 1,299) and GTX 1070 (at RM 1,999) have similar price to performance ratio. That's the good part.

It's just unfortunate that AMD didn't price it lower, and by the looks of it RX 480 won't be holding the ground well once GTX 1060 appears.

While I like the RX 480, I'm afraid that the power draw issue would likely result in many [WTS] in Garage Sales section.

What is done, is done. AMD had all the cards in their hand before the launch, and they could turn this launch into the best launch for budget mainstream card ever everywhere,.........aaaaaaaaand they chose only to deal a good hand in the US. Unless they can issue refund back to owners now to get that "better value RM850-950" deal them Americans are getting now, the RX480 card will forever be marred and looked upon as "neither here, not there, just somewhere in between". Like I said many times in the other thread, people are more forgiving when it's cheaper. With this card that is "neither here nor there", and not exactly cheap to boot, there will be folks who felt like they didnt get the deal that they should have gotten.

A mere RM50 difference is negligible.
Like what @Matrix stated a couple page back, he got a GTX 970 for a GOOD DEAL at RM1200 a couple month ago.
Right not that is considered as a rip off.

Like I said before, distributor already significantly dropped the price of 9xx series lineup a couple of days ago (maybe last week, only noticed it on Monday).
A NEW GTX 970 can be bought as low as RM1200

RX 480 opened the channel for sub RM1k price for used GTX 970, and these new price cut will normalize these price even further.
You will have a VERY hard time selling GTX 970 for anything above RM1k, unles of course it was a super special edition or something.

Also, nice imagination you got there, not sure how it would fare well in a proper argument tho.

But that is EXACTLY what happened.
Even the mere reveal of it stirred the used market price.
Seen it happened right before my eyes because of my 'vulture' habit, and I take that as a compliment thank you.

I already stated it happen before no? During HD4850/4870 laucnh.

If you have been monitoring used price market over the last 5 years and through 3 gens then you know that this kind of thing have not happen, at least not in this scale, at least not in Malaysia.
For years the new GPU have worse or same price/perf, at least in Malaysia mind you, than the current options on the market.
Old gpu pricing have been dropping in a steady manner, with the new lineup have almost no effect to the markets.



It is not until AMD new aggressive price with RX 480 that bring a massive step down in the mid range segment when it comes to price/perf.

Or course~
Longer? Maybe because I don't expect GTX 1060 to have the same effect as what RX 480 has brought to us, but it'll sure be a firm yardstick, a reference that would stabilize the current market after the issue with RX 480 that raised the market price by RM50 (which is like you said, whooptie-fucking-dog).
Be I am sure that RX 470 will be quite a competitor.

Aaaahhh I am so happy with these release~

Dude, my contention with your claim is that you are basing on these price drops SOLELY on RX480's presence, when this is not something that hadn't happened before. Trying to raise the status of the RX480 to that level means nothing when every freaking new releases does the same bloody thing!. You can analyse all you want about market price and all, but price drops when new cards come out isnt anything new. And the RX480's appearance dropping market prices does not warrant any special mention because every freaking card before this does the same song and dance as well.

I'm inclined to think you're pretty young and new for not noticing that trend, but that goes across as something insulting.

Long story short, RX480 is nothing special. Price drops are normal when new cards comes out. I can dial back time and state every AMD previous releases as "special" in that case since every price drop that happens when AMD card drops is sung and praised as a "seismic event".

Not surprised though, people these days celebrate mediocrity. When there's little to cheer about, cheer what's left there is to cheer and make a mountain of a molehill of that achievement.

And I quoting myself in another post:

In the last 5 years we have a STEADY DECLINE in market price.
In the last 5 years a launch of new gpu lineup HAVE NOT GIVE THE MARKET PRICE ANY SIGNIFICANT CHANGE.
I have linked up you the review of GTX 970, its launch price and how it barely effect the price and performance ratio of the current market.

It is not until the launch of RX 480 that we got an almost 40% of value drop in the segment this card compete, a significant, dramatic drop for the market.

What is your argument against these fact? Nothing! Absolutely NOTHING.
No CHART, no DATA.

You keep attacking this card as if you have personal vendetta at it, as if this card is an individual that you must devalue despite its apparent contribution to the market, and by extension us consumer.

Why? Why do you hate this GPU soo much, soo hard that you refuse to admit a FACT that you have yet refuted.

...and QUOTING YOURSELF? Really? You're one heck of a fellow I tell ya that.

This post has been edited by missingNo: Jul 5 2016, 06:49 AM

that quote is in another post that I posted, hence "quoting myself", while the content of that quote is from another forum. Nice try.

Sure, let's celebrate the 40% market value drop of a GPU that is one to two years late. If this GPU was there when 980 and 970 came out, then it's significant. At the point in time when this came out, (now), it's not headline news anymore, it's in the classified section.

I've mentioned it earlier, it's only trump card is its price, but even that is "neither here nor there", price being inflated to what its current market price is. I also mentioned that I'll give it props it is due for, if it arrived at its intended price of RM850-950, but at what it is right now, it's riding too close to the next tier card, or even its upcoming competitor, the 1060.

You look at it from the price angle, I look at it arriving too little too late.

Nvidia took the fast route, got there efficiently and spent tons on getting there, they pass the cost to end user. AMD took the slow route, got there in a terribly inefficient way and spent less to get there, saving it for end user but arrive late. Depending on how you like your speed of tech is, you pick. To some, the entry fee to "get there" is the barrier itself, so they have no choice but to choose AMD. Those who want them, and want them now when it's available, can stray from the slow route AMD chose and spend a little bit more to "get there" faster.

This post has been edited by stringfellow: Jul 5 2016, 07:04 AM

Yeah, I think that is worth celebrating no?
You finally admit what I have been trying to point out, thank you.

Also, FYI GTX 970 have not dropped that far from launch price ever since it was launched.
So yeah, it took a slapping from this tiny little GPU for it to drop significantly after 2 years of dominating the market.

Lets thanks RX 480 for that, at least give it a pat in the back will ya?

Sure, it's worth celebrating, if you have not tasted what the RX480 can do 2 years back. Entry fee higher back then, have to wait 2 years now to taste what it is. Budget gamer category.

Look at it from the enthusiast point of view. Not super enthusiast that splurges on 980Ti or Titan X. Just enthusiast who had cash to spend on 970 2 years back. It is NOT a tall order to be able to afford the 970, 349USD. Price in RM locally fluctuates too wildly to rely as a steady reference between the devaluation of RM what it was previously and what it is now, so I'm gonna take the USD as the barometer.

Someone with a USD349 in his pocket 2 years ago have tasted what someone with a USD239 in his pocket now. The difference, USD110 is the price Nvidia users pay to be 2 years ahead of what AMD users are using now. That is where all my points are from, you pay USD110 to be ahead by 2 years. A performance that has been tasted 2 years ahead, isn't something worth celebrating now. It is only worth celebrating now if you have never tasted that performance 2 years ago, and can only taste it now because "the barrier", that performance entry fee, has dropped from USD349 to USD239. For that, I echo your sentiment. But for the lot of Nvidia users who make up the majority that had the 970 2 years back, it's nothing to shout about. Cool and awesome, the fraction of people that gets "left behind" now can finally get onto the performance "bus" and see what they missed, but the people who had been ahead, stays ahead, but at that price difference they paid for. In the case of 970 and 480, it's USD110.

Choice. At that point in time, users are faced with a choice. Pay that USD110 premium now, and hop onto that bandwagon now and experience it 2 years early, or choose not to pay that premium and get to experience it later. Some folks are okay with that USD110 premium to get ahead, some dont. Those who do (and there are lots of them, the 970 is a bestselling card) has 2 years head start ahead of those who decline to pay that premium 2 years early, and can only experience it now in the form of RX480.

Now you get why I said there's no big deal about it? It is a big deal if you declined to take up the premium of USD110 2 years ago. But the experience that used to cost USD349 2 years ago, becomes common and cheaper now, that at USD239, it's mostly "meh" to those who had taken the option to pay the premium and experience it early. Take it that USD110 is the price they pay to experience it earlier. Like movie tickets, release day movie tickets costs RM18 and no concession tickets for early bird special or half price on certain dates, UNTIL the movie grow stale and gone into the smaller theatre hall. Sure, you get to watch Star Wars Episode VII for RM7 when others get to watch it a month earlier at RM18-20. That's a big price difference. But only the ticket purchaser decides if it is worth watching it early, or if he wants to save and/or can only watch it when it's cheap. Guess where the bulk of money for movie box-office are made from?

So, me here, giving this RX480 a pat in the back, is like me congratulating someone who gets to watch Episode VII one month later. He gets to watch it cheap, but that's only because he can only get to see it while it's cheap. Others had watched it earlier, and the price to see it on release day is not CRAZY expensive either, unlike watching in GOLD CLASS cinema hall. See how anticlimactic that is?

If the release price figure for the 970 is not accurate, then replace them with whatever's accurate. The sentiment remains.

This post has been edited by stringfellow: Jul 5 2016, 07:50 AM

https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/3983179/all

RM1999. And yes, it matches 980Ti in some cases, and beats it in others.

This post has been edited by stringfellow: Jul 5 2016, 08:18 AM