woooooooo,fresh here......y butterfly dman difficult 1........
izit pattern is important??

Not so much pattern, as the rhythm.. when to pull, when to kick, yaddaa yadaaa

Yes, rhythm is more important. You get the rhythm wrong, very difficult. Had a hard time having my coach correct my rhythm for me.

Damn...I still can't do the flip perfectly...

I saw someone do the flip from side to side. Wondering this is better or the upside down turn...

What do you mean side to side? Gravity plays a part as to which method is more efficient.

Side to side means, the flip is be done the half way only...Means it's actually: Touch the wall, and then turn your body on the surface of the water (not the flip we mentioning, just merely the swim forth and back process). But now I saw her do that in water, looks like a up down flip but actually it's a side to side flip...

By the way I have difficulty to roll my body to do the full flip. Sometimes can sometimes can't. And sometimes I may need to use my hands to aid for my body to do a roll...

Oh, I see. That is not a flip at all. It's just a turn. Nothing special about it, just a stop/go.

Ok, need to clarify some terms here. I am not sure what you mean by roll, because you don't roll your body to do a flip turn. A roll is is a rotation on the body's longitudinal axis. Same as how an airplane rolls. If you look at an airplane from the front, a roll is when the plane 'rotates' in a clockwise or anti-clockwise motion.

So, I guess you're having some trouble flipping. Usually, one hand is used for the final pull into the approach, then you have to time the kick and (body) tuck correctly so you can somersault. It's a chained series of motions, so pull, then kick, then into the tuck and flip.

Yes I can do the moves for pull, when I was starting to flip, I can't really turn my body fully. Most of the time half way (head down side and legs hang half way). To complete the other half move, I need to use my hands to crawl in the water so that I have force to flip my body...

Sometimes, I can do the flip perfectly surprisingly. It must be something wrong I can't figure out myself. It may because of I lost the direction when doing flips... I'm not sure...

Hmmm... I see... Has anyone taught you or shown you how to do it before?

Anyway, the flip is the same as any somersault. There will come a point when you will have to flip your legs back to complete the momentum. So, there is a kick to start it off, then a pull back (of the legs) to complete it. There are two parts to generation the motion/momentum.

I see....Maybe this is the point. No...No one shows me. I'll try your theory when I'm free...Thanks

Haha! I see... Well, get skysherly to arrange a swim, and if we both turn up, I'll show you...

where's /when's the next swim... will consider making a trip all the way down to 3K..

I found it out already Success rate is 90% now, the 10% is sometimes the timing to do flipping incorrect...

What did you find out?!? Tell lah!!! What? Where? How?

The flip la what else haha, this in the only thing I need to learn in swimming (and back stroke, which I don't have much interest).

The small kick really useful to help your body flipped. Cool...~~

I know it's the flip turn, but wanted to know what you found out

So I guess it was the little kick to start off the flip? Good, good... Well done!

Ya, it's huge difference with and without kick...if you want, just try without kick, you'll feel what I felt before. Hang upside down in the pool, haha...

Haha! I can do it with or without a kick. I have decades of swimming plus competitive experience

You mean handstand in the pool, then rotate? HAHAHAHA!

you guys/gals only frequent 3k? i dont have a swimcap so i dont go there

shah alam's indoor dont require swimcaps for shorthair like mine and i usually have the whole pool to myself during lunch hours. hehe.

who else frequents KJ? i usually go there after work on weds, if not SA during lunch