Yes. But it's hard to see the overall ranking that way. But since this thread is about architecture, you'll have to rank UM based upon architecture. Compared it to others in our region, I have no idea how good we are because each school has their own strengths and weaknesses. UM is extremely technical, less on conceptual. Of course in working life, the good money is on ideas and concept; hence people pay good money for those with really good ideas and concept.

Technicalities can be learnt later...or not. This is because an architect need not know all of these in detail and still be a good architect. However, the emphasis in UM is such that you'll know what is the amp that is required in a socket placed 300mm from the ground of a particular workstation designed for a disabled...well, you get the idea. Very detailed in technicalities. We are educated to be highly knowledgeable with things that other consultants do (M&E + C&S engineers, quantity surveyor, landscape & interior design, etc.)...not as good as they are, but know enough that we can command a strong prescence and leadership when dealing with them.

So, back to the question. How good are we compared to others? Well, we got LAM & PAM accreditation from their first visit. Also, we have RIBA accreditation that no other schools in Malaysia has. I don't know about our ASEAN region though. That should be able to tell how good we are.

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Added on April 26, 2007, 3:53 pmAnd in case anyone want to know, architecture is NOT for the weakhearted. It is HARDER than being a doctor or engineer. Don't take my word for it. Ask your friends or seniors or relatives that have gone through architecture.

Also, studyng architecture does not mean you are stuck with being architects or draughtsmen. You can also be involved in Allied and Related Industry (ARI) such as 3D artists, landscape designer, interior designer, being a developer or contractor, etc.

Several of my seniors became actors. There are many Asian and American actors and actresses that used to study architecture. Also, there are some who became game designers, graphic artists, insurance managers, financial consultants, event managers, etc. And they are successful in their own profession.

The reason why they became what they are, of which, are not related to architecture AND STILL BE SUCCESSFUL is because what this course has to offer. It is a comprehesive course in educating you about being a succesful person in life. I'm not saying other courses are not good, it's just that architecture gives you the whole scenarios within just one course.

Also, that would have to depend on where you study. If you study in UM, I can guarantee you 3 years of pain and sufferings for Part 1, and another 2 years for Part 2. These sufferings will educate you for your future. So, come to UM...if you dare....

This post has been edited by clayclws: Apr 26 2007, 03:53 PM

first of all, nobody said anything bad about UM.

what the interview system implies, as reiterated by USM interviewers is that, if they pass an interview session, it will override the courses without interviews. that would mean for example, if they passed UKM's interview (5th choice), it will override UM's application (1st choice).

now, that implies that UM has low priority over other schools with interviews. i'm trying to convince them that it is not so, and the USM people were wrong. ofcourse, there might be changes in the system, but i doubt that interviewed course will override the non-interviewed. well, atleast that's what PM saari and i derived at the end of our discussion few days back.

owh u know saari dontcha?



to compare:

UTM, USM and UiTM also received PAM/LAM accreditation on their first visit, back in the 80s.

UiTM applied for RIBA this year and failed. USM and UTM hasnt applied yet, as they dont seem to be bothered for RIBA, but they're going straight for UIA (union of international architects) accreditation instead.

how did UM managed to get RIBA so quickly? bcoz that's the main objective of the school when it was first conceived by prof ezrin (UM's FAB dean). even before the school opens, the entire staff consists of people who're eager for RIBA accreditation, and some of them have RIBA part 3 themselves. so the entire format is already geared to the system, hence when UM applied, it's a very short story.

why didnt other schools apply for RIBA as well?

i. bcoz we have different format. UTM follows bauhaus, UiTM follows american system and USM follows something that i cant remember what. UM geared itself immediately to RIBA, taking advantage of being a new school and having no preconceptions.

ii. RIBA requires A-levels/STPM intake. UTM and UiTM were taking SPM students before.

so it boils down to: does RIBA = better? well, amongst my friends, we do not think it's entirely true. but it does mean RIBA = international recognition. i mean, we've seen crappy RIBA schools producing crappy RIBA students in the UK. they're crap, but they have RIBA.

so RIBA doesnt mean that UM is one scale better than other schools in msia, but it does imply that UM is more internationally recognized than other schools. but then, UTM has more students and ex-students overseas than any other schools in msia.




my point here is, dear kids, if u wanna be an architect, choose a school that makes u one. UTM, UM, UiTM, USM, UIAM and LUCT all has part 1. UTM, UM, UiTM and USM has part 2. these schools will make an architect out of u immediately in msia. as i've shown in the first post, there are other ways too, some take slightly longer, some costs a fortune.

ur choice.

owh by the way, pain and suffering is everywhere in architecture. even in the worst schools...

This post has been edited by azarimy: Apr 26 2007, 04:45 PM

omg!!

So tough??!!!!!

I want to know, what is it that is hard? Can I get YOUR view?

Does it involve maths like hell.

Nice long winded post by Azarimy... nobody said UM was a crappy school man.

Nice to meet a UM B Arch undergraduate here... but keep the fan boyism to urself dude

hmmm... does it mean that after graduating from architecture i will turn to the dark side?



This post has been edited by xtracooljustin: Apr 26 2007, 06:25 PM

I guess some of my words seemed too unappropriate that I have been labelled a fanboy. Well, I won't go on about those. Sorry if you think I'm being too worked up in my own world. Take a look at the good points that I point out while you're at it, ok?

Anyway, how is studying architecture much harder than studying med (doctor)? Lots of ways. Even after graduating, your liabilities are more than a doctor's...but that doesn't necessarily mean you pay would be higher...most likely lower. Unless you are a Registered /Professional Architect and owns your own firm.

Medical (doctor) students do a lot of studying in the early years and more practical in the later years before specializing. Architectural students practically have to do everything since year 1.

I remember my first day in studio, we were asked to clear the studio, collect every waste that our seniors have left, and designed something out of them within 3 hours. There you go. No guide, no knowledge and plunged into the darkness. The same thing happens over and over again. You can never finish everything on time. Too many submission deadlines that you can't meet. Real world is similar.

You'll spend everyday on a monotonous tone. Wake up 6am. Eat breakfast and bath by 7am. Do studio work from 7am until 12pm. Bath and eat. Continue studio work; 1pm until 7pm. Bath and eat. Do studio work; 8pm until 2am. Supper. Sleep at 3am. Wake up 6am...and so on.

The workload is tremendous. Not only in studio work. There's other subjects as well. Things you can never learn in universities. You have to go out, look for outside architects, engineers, etc. to learn from them. Good thing about UM is that we are right smack in the urban area. We get outside architects to come easily and we can always look for them and other professionals easily. Such learning is important because the books and lecturers can only help you so far (not much actually). You can NEVER rely upon books and lecturers only. You'll fail in UM if you do so...I say UM because I know how it is here. I don't now about other university.

There is more to add but that's all I can think about right now. Oh, and yes I know PM Saari Omar. He's probably there with you in the UK. I know Prof Ezrin too. I probably don't know you, azarimy...but it's a small world after all What you said abotu us aiming straight for the RIBA...maybe that's what Saari told you. I don't know. Ezrin, Helena, and others seemed to be telling us other stories. Oh well...

Oh, I'm not promoting UM. I can say very well that we are not the best school of architecture in Malaysia. But the syllabus makes us very competitive. I won't go on about the comparison, lest I be called a fanboy again.

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Added on April 26, 2007, 6:34 pmOh, and one of my coursemate, her boyfriend was a medical student (was, because he already graduated) in UM. He said he had never experienced such pain and suffering (because he had to help her) in the medical course.

My friends in engineering faculty also concur.

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Added on April 26, 2007, 6:36 pmOh, just to rebut...why didn't UM get the accreditation back in the 80s? Cause UM's school of architecture is only officially formed in 1997...

This post has been edited by clayclws: Apr 26 2007, 06:36 PM

nothing wrong with fanboyism. atleast not through my glasses.

there's nothing wrong about UM being geared to RIBA too. i think it's an advantage for UM as a new school bcoz other older schools dont have that much of a choice, especially when the old-timers are still around. UM is very fortunate to have prof ezrin as the dean, as he is a very proactive man who shares his vision with his staffs and students. which is where we can now see UM is going.

i dont know much of what's going on in USM. but i know UTM is shifting its paradigm quite significantly, but a bit too late since most of those who would be fond of this new paradigm have already left the school - people like saari and nazyati (UM), asrul mahjuddin (UM/UPM), ramesh and zatur(LUCT) and some others in UIA and taylor's.

why now? bcoz most who're opposed to the paradigm shift are either retiring or already retired hehe.

UiTM are also struggling to keep up. they're changing their education format, which seems to be the only thing that's in the way of RIBA recognition. they didnt manage to get it this year, mainly becoz there are too small a student number around to give a good impression of the school (in the new curriculum).

UM is currently one of the leading architecture school in msia. but it's quite a waste since they only take a small number of students each year. come on! u guys have ur own multi-level carpark! make more room for the students aye? hahaha.



however, on the architecture is harder than medicine... well, i wouldnt say for sure. honestly, architecture was a walk in the park for me. but i know i'd struggle pretty much in medicine and law. then again, no one have actually studied medicine AND architecture in one life time. so until then, we would never REALLY know the answer.

we can ask people, but that wont prove anything much

Ezrin is no longer the dean. He's still with us though...Our faculty (FAB/FBE) will be having other departments (now 4..making way for others) or at least that's what we've been told. There's also budget to redesign a new building...or at least, that's what we heard. Our current building is every architect's scorn...a plain old JKR D+B. I don't know about what you've heard of UM...we used to have really good lecturers too (Heng, EK, Woods, Ahmad, etc.) Now they're gone. And since you know Saari, I won't add much into that

When people hear about architectural students from UM, their first impression is, "What? Never heard of UM architecture..." And when asked which school they think is best in architecture in Malaysia, "UiTM will be first (most of the time), UTM second and USM third..." So where is UM? "Hmm...never heard of UM," is the answer. Well, at least people in NUS and USC know us..guess we got a long way to go.

Anyway, I myself had "counselled" a few of my juniors about architecture. Most of them left for other courses (or universities) and some stayed (because they couldn't transfer). There are a few who dared to take up the challenge of continuing in UM...

Oh...and if anyone needs to know. The relationship between architectural students (no matter what race, junior/senior) is just INCREDIBLE (in UM lah...I didn't study elsewhere mah..turning on typical Malaysian-Chinese tone). How is incredible? Seniors always help juniors and vice versa...we always enjoy sports together, go mamak together, go movies together, go BBQ together, go trip together, everything together...die also together...haha! We spent so much time in studios together that the bond between architectural students (all over the world) are truly tight...like brothers and sisters...of course there is competition, but that's just normal amongst siblings, eh?

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Added on April 26, 2007, 8:02 pmOh, and if you need guidance on buying a desktop/laptop for architecture, I'm your man

This post has been edited by clayclws: Apr 26 2007, 08:02 PM

Well im an Architecture student at UTM and comparatively i havent promote UTM in da whole thread as much as u have in ur first few posts here I do not think our lifestyles differ much, but urs being better as ur in the capital... while i long to be back at my hometown, KL.

we ALL know that each universities has its own pros and cons. So for the benefit of those not in the know and those seeking information in LYN, we should try to be as general and as neutral as possible. I have always state my preferences of UM as a good choice of uni to forummers in LYN who chat wif me in MSN due to the nature of being in the capital.

We also have to bear in mind that sometimes our uni placement is beyond our control. We can only do so much, like putting a particular uni as first choice, doing well in da subsequent interviews... but ultimately which uni we go to is in the hands of those universities n MOHE.

Dun fret too much bout that fanboyism bro. All in da name of poking some fun.

Finally a UM architecture student here!!! Been seeking for one for so long... Please do hop in here as frequent as u can cos I might hv some questions that I need to ask u...

And I'm seeking for a nice lappie that is both sufficient and efficient to do the whole architecture course. So wat kind of specs do u recommend?

* Is GeForce Go 7400 able to run all the graphics rendering (be it intensive or light)? Or do we need better ones like Go 7600, ATI Radeon X1600 and above???

* Is 1GB Ram sufficient to run? Or do we need 2GB as a minimum?

* Harddisk space? Is 100 GB enuff (inclusive of other multimedia, gaming stuff)?

* R the softwares used compatible with the new Windows Vista? Or do we need to have Windows XP Pro to avoid incompatibility issues?

And pls recommend a few brands and lappie models too... THX.

This post has been edited by europology: Apr 27 2007, 12:01 AM

ok .
let me tell u ...
u need a laptop at least 5-6K to make it run smooth . or else kinda laggy when doing rendering .
one of my frined bought a 13K macbookpro ... very ncie . rendering are way way way much faster than windows .
i got another chap , got 1 fujitsu laptop and 1 macbook. his review , macbook do rendering way way way way way much faster .
u can consider it .

1G is too low . u need 2G if u want to support vista also with ur AutoCAD . HDD 100GB is almost ok .

But I'm not used to Mac although I've been dreaming of owning one. In fact, I've nvr used one b4! Getting used to it wud take a helluva long time. And I wud like to try Windows Vista. I think I'll still stick to Vista.

U mean Macbook is a lot faster than a Windows even if the Windows is sufficiently equipped?

Wat's urs? Can list down the brand, model and detailed specs? THX.

i am using desktop only ...
hehehe ...

the only problem is ACAD , MacBook OS cannot support .
photoshop and rendering , MAC rocks ...
it is like ... few times faster .

dont ask me , i also ask my frined one .
nowadays , MacBook can install dual-OS , u can run parallel if u like , but recommended one by one .

so wat's ur pc specs? is it fast doing rendering? got hangs and crashes or not?

well , i haven't really try that out .
used to use the Mac Desktop at my school ...
do my ACAD .
btw , what i recommend is at least 2G of ram , and external grahpic card .
possible u can try to buy a desktop . beacsue it is much more powerful than a lappie .

unless u want to compare a 5K desktop with a Mac .

if you ask those mac users , mac is a very user friendly thing . my frined said .. 'VERY VERY user frinedly' but layout is a bit different .

but u said acad is incompatible with mac? then how did u use it in ur scul's mac desktop?

btw, is it essential to own ur very own lappie or desktop for archi course? cos i dun think those who come from poorer backgrounds wud be able to afford it, since archi needs a rather powerful system to run graphics rendering.

well, it is highly recommended that u get ur own machine, laptop or desktop, as long as u dont have to share.

frankly, expert 3D users have a lot of tricks to minimize rendering time so that u can spend more time developing ur design. so the most powerful machine might not be relevant, unless it speeds up ur design process. i use a pretty basic setup, but with a few tweaks in the config, i could produce a full design from ground up within 2 days - complete with renderings.

a full hard-core setup is not exactly necessary. i usually get the best setup for 6 months ago, coz it costs ALOT cheaper than the best setup today. honestly, look at it: autocad or 3dsmax's core programme is not updated every 6 months. if 6 months ago other students were able to submit good designs, then speed is not an issue.

ok , to make sure it runs smooth , u need 2G of memory and ... ... add up . for a poorer student , it would be better for them to buy a desktop .
actually i have asked my seniors , laptop isn't a nessesary .

i dont mean u cannot really use the rendering with less powerful system. but that will make ur computer quite slow . especially if u are running vista , it is a super duper memory eating OS . if u want pure smoothness , u need to use a powerful system . my frined build hisown desktop for 2.5K . not so powerful , but almost good enough for all the application without lag .
my frined has a toshiba notebook , also can run .
the thing is , it might take 10-20seconds for the rendering in photoshop to be done in a normal spec . for MAC book or powerful system , it would take half the time .

of course , u cant compare with some 13K macbook which isbuild for grahpics . so ... get ready . a normal system will do . depends on ur budget .

you bought ur phone for almost 2K right? i dont think a desktop about 3K is aproblem for ya . try avoid Dell laptop if u ask me . if budget allows , go for Fujitshu ,Sony Vaio , ..if ok ok , u can go for lenovo ,toshiba , acer ...

well ACAD cannot run on mac . but it can run on Windows . My friend's laptop is running both OS parallel . with a tab to the key , it will switch from OS X to Windows . then do the work .

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Added on April 27, 2007, 3:22 amwelll
i would suggest
2G of RAM
standalone graphic card
intel C2D processor , or possible , use ur desktop now .. then year end buy the Quad Core .

This post has been edited by BridgestoneRE711: Apr 27 2007, 03:22 AM

i think that will imply in any school of architecture in Malaysia, since we probably living 24/7 in our own world of architecture until some other faculty student thought that architecture student are very "sombong"

erk, and for the pc spec issue, i think a mid-end rig are good enough if you are a budget tight person for doing presentation board, 3D modelling and 2D drawing...
just get yourself a pc rather than laptop, learn architecture the hard way dude...

This post has been edited by katunX: Apr 27 2007, 02:46 PM

Does anyone know where is UTM KL City Campus located? I'll be flying to KL tomorrow. Since I'll most probably stay at Bukit Bintang, I wanna know how long does it take to go to UTM City Campus. Any hotel nearby?

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Added on April 27, 2007, 3:30 pmI just came back from Penang on Wednesday. One of the interviewers asked me if I receive offer letters from both UTM and USM, which one will I go. Arghhh....such tricky question. I hesitated for a second or so and answered I'll go to UTM as the course offered is 5 years. Then they said in USM also 5 years bah. Arghhhh....speechless.
I guess I've ruined the interview. Duh~

This post has been edited by LeoDaVinci: Apr 27 2007, 03:30 PM

UTM KL located at Jalan Semarak, it should be near from Chow Kit or Kampung Bharu area and also near KLCC...there should be many hotels on this area...I'm not sure whether there is any hotel near Jalan Semarak itself..

This post has been edited by katunX: Apr 27 2007, 04:03 PM