Hey to all who thinks UM is a lousier/crappier school compared to others, I can say whole heartedly that you are extremely wrong. I'm Part 2 Architectural Undergraduate from UM and UM is the ONLY architectural school in Malaysia to be acreditted by RIBA. Think about that. Other schools have applied and they have failed the accreditation. UM applied only ONCE and we got it there and then.

Also, the last PAM Awards, our seniors dominated the awards. Of course the bosses received the awards instead of them (because they are still Part 2) but some of them received the awards themselves. One example is the highest award that was given that night.

So, think about that.

Yes. But it's hard to see the overall ranking that way. But since this thread is about architecture, you'll have to rank UM based upon architecture. Compared it to others in our region, I have no idea how good we are because each school has their own strengths and weaknesses. UM is extremely technical, less on conceptual. Of course in working life, the good money is on ideas and concept; hence people pay good money for those with really good ideas and concept.

Technicalities can be learnt later...or not. This is because an architect need not know all of these in detail and still be a good architect. However, the emphasis in UM is such that you'll know what is the amp that is required in a socket placed 300mm from the ground of a particular workstation designed for a disabled...well, you get the idea. Very detailed in technicalities. We are educated to be highly knowledgeable with things that other consultants do (M&E + C&S engineers, quantity surveyor, landscape & interior design, etc.)...not as good as they are, but know enough that we can command a strong prescence and leadership when dealing with them.

So, back to the question. How good are we compared to others? Well, we got LAM & PAM accreditation from their first visit. Also, we have RIBA accreditation that no other schools in Malaysia has. I don't know about our ASEAN region though. That should be able to tell how good we are.

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Added on April 26, 2007, 3:53 pmAnd in case anyone want to know, architecture is NOT for the weakhearted. It is HARDER than being a doctor or engineer. Don't take my word for it. Ask your friends or seniors or relatives that have gone through architecture.

Also, studyng architecture does not mean you are stuck with being architects or draughtsmen. You can also be involved in Allied and Related Industry (ARI) such as 3D artists, landscape designer, interior designer, being a developer or contractor, etc.

Several of my seniors became actors. There are many Asian and American actors and actresses that used to study architecture. Also, there are some who became game designers, graphic artists, insurance managers, financial consultants, event managers, etc. And they are successful in their own profession.

The reason why they became what they are, of which, are not related to architecture AND STILL BE SUCCESSFUL is because what this course has to offer. It is a comprehesive course in educating you about being a succesful person in life. I'm not saying other courses are not good, it's just that architecture gives you the whole scenarios within just one course.

Also, that would have to depend on where you study. If you study in UM, I can guarantee you 3 years of pain and sufferings for Part 1, and another 2 years for Part 2. These sufferings will educate you for your future. So, come to UM...if you dare....

This post has been edited by clayclws: Apr 26 2007, 03:53 PM

I guess some of my words seemed too unappropriate that I have been labelled a fanboy. Well, I won't go on about those. Sorry if you think I'm being too worked up in my own world. Take a look at the good points that I point out while you're at it, ok?

Anyway, how is studying architecture much harder than studying med (doctor)? Lots of ways. Even after graduating, your liabilities are more than a doctor's...but that doesn't necessarily mean you pay would be higher...most likely lower. Unless you are a Registered /Professional Architect and owns your own firm.

Medical (doctor) students do a lot of studying in the early years and more practical in the later years before specializing. Architectural students practically have to do everything since year 1.

I remember my first day in studio, we were asked to clear the studio, collect every waste that our seniors have left, and designed something out of them within 3 hours. There you go. No guide, no knowledge and plunged into the darkness. The same thing happens over and over again. You can never finish everything on time. Too many submission deadlines that you can't meet. Real world is similar.

You'll spend everyday on a monotonous tone. Wake up 6am. Eat breakfast and bath by 7am. Do studio work from 7am until 12pm. Bath and eat. Continue studio work; 1pm until 7pm. Bath and eat. Do studio work; 8pm until 2am. Supper. Sleep at 3am. Wake up 6am...and so on.

The workload is tremendous. Not only in studio work. There's other subjects as well. Things you can never learn in universities. You have to go out, look for outside architects, engineers, etc. to learn from them. Good thing about UM is that we are right smack in the urban area. We get outside architects to come easily and we can always look for them and other professionals easily. Such learning is important because the books and lecturers can only help you so far (not much actually). You can NEVER rely upon books and lecturers only. You'll fail in UM if you do so...I say UM because I know how it is here. I don't now about other university.

There is more to add but that's all I can think about right now. Oh, and yes I know PM Saari Omar. He's probably there with you in the UK. I know Prof Ezrin too. I probably don't know you, azarimy...but it's a small world after all What you said abotu us aiming straight for the RIBA...maybe that's what Saari told you. I don't know. Ezrin, Helena, and others seemed to be telling us other stories. Oh well...

Oh, I'm not promoting UM. I can say very well that we are not the best school of architecture in Malaysia. But the syllabus makes us very competitive. I won't go on about the comparison, lest I be called a fanboy again.

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Added on April 26, 2007, 6:34 pmOh, and one of my coursemate, her boyfriend was a medical student (was, because he already graduated) in UM. He said he had never experienced such pain and suffering (because he had to help her) in the medical course.

My friends in engineering faculty also concur.

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Added on April 26, 2007, 6:36 pmOh, just to rebut...why didn't UM get the accreditation back in the 80s? Cause UM's school of architecture is only officially formed in 1997...

This post has been edited by clayclws: Apr 26 2007, 06:36 PM

Ezrin is no longer the dean. He's still with us though...Our faculty (FAB/FBE) will be having other departments (now 4..making way for others) or at least that's what we've been told. There's also budget to redesign a new building...or at least, that's what we heard. Our current building is every architect's scorn...a plain old JKR D+B. I don't know about what you've heard of UM...we used to have really good lecturers too (Heng, EK, Woods, Ahmad, etc.) Now they're gone. And since you know Saari, I won't add much into that

When people hear about architectural students from UM, their first impression is, "What? Never heard of UM architecture..." And when asked which school they think is best in architecture in Malaysia, "UiTM will be first (most of the time), UTM second and USM third..." So where is UM? "Hmm...never heard of UM," is the answer. Well, at least people in NUS and USC know us..guess we got a long way to go.

Anyway, I myself had "counselled" a few of my juniors about architecture. Most of them left for other courses (or universities) and some stayed (because they couldn't transfer). There are a few who dared to take up the challenge of continuing in UM...

Oh...and if anyone needs to know. The relationship between architectural students (no matter what race, junior/senior) is just INCREDIBLE (in UM lah...I didn't study elsewhere mah..turning on typical Malaysian-Chinese tone). How is incredible? Seniors always help juniors and vice versa...we always enjoy sports together, go mamak together, go movies together, go BBQ together, go trip together, everything together...die also together...haha! We spent so much time in studios together that the bond between architectural students (all over the world) are truly tight...like brothers and sisters...of course there is competition, but that's just normal amongst siblings, eh?

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Added on April 26, 2007, 8:02 pmOh, and if you need guidance on buying a desktop/laptop for architecture, I'm your man

This post has been edited by clayclws: Apr 26 2007, 08:02 PM

Just finished my exam. Sorry for not posting replies bout the computer stuffs...but seems like BridgestoneRE711 already answered them.

You know...the weird thing about technology...when UM started the school, everyone did manual. Then people start using computer and everyone goes "WOW". Real world uses lots of those as well, so it became the focus of the students. Then, everyone starts using computer and neglect manual. Then, someone uses manual, and everyone goes "WOW"...but of course the practicing world outside still relies heavily on computers.

Well, even if you're good at computer, design doesn't come from the cursor and screen. It comes from the mind and the hand manifest them the quickest and prettiest...For people seriously thinking of taking up architecture...brush up on your sketching skills

Hmm, people that I know of usually use Acer, Dell, HP and some well-to-do lads use Sony. No Mac users here so far. I don't have a laptop, so I am not sure what is best.

However, I have researched laptops for my friends. Dell is cheap...and yes, the parts are cheap as well. Meaning they offer the best value for money but the motherboard, the built quality, the material and the design are really not "up-to-par". Their warranty is the best though. Then again, it's best to buy a laptop whereby you don't need to claim the warranty...EVER!

I would suggest you get HP or if you have the moolah, use a Sony or Mac. Somehow using graphic softwares such as Photoshop, Maya and FormZ work faster on Mac rather than on Windows. This is mainly due to the OpenGL support by Mac...as far as I know.

I use a desktop...built myself. So...no brand.

Exam? Lots of type. Architecture related ones are essays. As for design, it's presentation. You don't sit for exam, but you are "tested" for your final presentation of a particular project. Howeve, every Uni has their own ways of "testing" you design. In UM, your attendance, class participation and design developments during pin-ups and interim crits are also considered.

I have to warn though, design is a VERY SUBJECTIVE manner. And it is usually up to the Studio Coordinator (Head of Studio) and Studio Masters (other studio lecturers) to mark you. Portfolio may also affect your marks. Hence, the credibility and transperancy of the marking is essentially VERY IMPORTANT. However, don't expect fairness at all times. Life is not fair after all. I don't need to go on further about this. You'll discover for yourself how cruel architecture is sometimes

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Added on April 30, 2007, 1:01 amOh, btw, I use AutoCAD, Photoshop and 3dsmax most of the time. I'm learning SketchUp for now.

I use WinXP and will not change to Vista until the Vista graphic drivers support OpenGL...or at least support the functions within it. So new latop buyers, you may want to buy a laptop with WinXP instead of Vista...then again, it's all up to you.

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Added on April 30, 2007, 1:04 amOh, good try on the sketch. At least you drew something that is lively. Not just building. There's some human aspect to it.

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Added on April 30, 2007, 1:11 amGeForce Go 7400 is good enough. Some of my friends run on built-in Intel GMAs.

1GB is sufficient if you are using WInXP. If Vista, I recommend 2GB. I personally use 2GB on WinXP. Extra RAM always come in handy for graphic softwares. If I can get my hands on more RAM, I surely would. But WinXP 32bit cannot support 4GB properlly. I will not use Vista...or 64bit...yet.

Harddisk. I personally use 80GB. All other stuffs I backup into DVDs. I would suggest you get around 240GB for desktop or 120GB for laptop if you have the money. If not, 80GB is sufficient.

I suggest WinXP instead of Vista due to many issues: drivers, software incompatibilities, requirement of newest software (more money to be spent...if you are using original softwares).

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Added on April 30, 2007, 1:17 amIssues about theft...ALWAYS BACKUP YOUR PROJECTS!!! Theft happens all the time. If ever I see those thieves, I'll run them down with my car. They don't know how important those things in the laptops are.

I personally have never been a victim, but 2 of my 5th year (final year) seniors got unlucky...and they were in the midst of finalizing their design for presentation...sigh.

Oh, another note for upcoming architecture undergraduates...read. Read a lot on architecture...read newspapers...read real life issues. Don't play games, don't read fashion magazines...Improve your English and brush up on your confidence for presentation.

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Added on April 30, 2007, 1:18 amOh, a question for you azarimy...what is the best possible way to get employed in the UK? I really want (read: desperate!!!) to experience a different perspective.

This post has been edited by clayclws: Apr 30 2007, 01:18 AM

Graphic intensive softwares...yes, but they are not 3D games. The most important factors for those kind of softwares (in order of importance) are:

1. Processor
2. RAM
3. Graphics card
4. Harddisk space

Don't buy what you don't need. My friends have laptops equipped with GMA950 and desktop equipped with even more antique GMAs...and they run fine. But I wouldn't recommend it. Get NVIDA or ATI if possible. I would recommend NVIDIA over ATI because NVIDIA has better optimized cards and drivers for OpenGL execution.

At least the RIBA accreditation is something I don't have to worry about. Then again, there's the ARB exams. Several of my seniors went to the UK to work too. Some of them got ARB Part 3 already, and some still washing dishes in McDonald's while working part time with lesser known firms.

I guess the best way is to study masters there eh? Hmm...more studies...

Professional Masters accreditated as RIBA/ARB Part 3? Wow, what university offers that? They have any requirement brochure or anything to refer to?

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Added on May 3, 2007, 11:56 pmJust want to ask, anyone here has any suggestion for a final year design thesis?

This post has been edited by clayclws: May 3 2007, 11:56 PM

Those softwares, you'll only learn a bit in UM. But since you are going to UTM, it doesn't matter to you anyway

But you'll learn mostly from your peers, seniors (respect them!) and of course, part time jobs and/or industrial training. I myself learn the most from training (I trained in lots of firms, mostly part time) and self exploration. Explore during your holidays, get used to it. The greatest thing about learning those softwares in Malaysia is that...well, you can get them "easily"...I don't dare to elaborate more...I think you understand.

Oh, several of my seniors mentioned that firms from other countries with low piracy rates (USA, Europe, etc.) love students (read: workers) from Asia (including Malaysia) because we know how to use every single software they throw at us...

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Added on May 6, 2007, 12:22 amHey thanks Mr Azari Mat Yasir for the brochure. Very enlightening.

One of my friend in UTM, a girl, should be entering 5th year when semester starts (forgot her name - used to work with her in Hijjas), suggested looking in Tanggam for final year design thesis...I can't find any...care to direct? Thanks.

This post has been edited by clayclws: May 6 2007, 12:22 AM

Nope. I know some lecturers and architects that are handicapped. As long as you're good at design, it's fine. Site analyses, observations, defects listing, disputes, certifications, etc. can be done by other qualified personnels.

Hate Crew...you won't last a semester in Architecture without passion for designing structures (I prefer to use the term structures instead of buildings as bridges, follies, gardens are not buildings - heck, gardens are not even structures...)


Yes. Passion keeps you on. The questions that my employers (work as trainee in several firms) always ask is, "Why do you take up Architecture?" or "Why do you want to be an Architect?" There is no correct answer but one of my boss did mentioned that he took up architecture because he wants to build better living structures for mankind...guess that's a good answer.

Long time haven't check up this post. Been stuck in studio working all day and night on Parliament Design Thesis.

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Added on December 14, 2007, 7:16 pmPlanning is part of Architecture. But there is a profession called Planners as well...that seems to be striving very hard to wrestle control upon many aspects of planning responsibilities (legally) from the traditional architect's scope of work, such as a registered planner is required to plan a piece of land that is more than 5 acres.

Overseas...it is different from country to country. I myself have not worked anywhere away from Malaysia, so I can't enlighten you KVReninem on that matter.

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Added on December 14, 2007, 7:19 pmBenjamin911, I hope you are ready for Architecture. Architecture may seem glamourous when compared to Doctors, Dentists, Lawyers, Accountants, Engineers, etc. but it is one heck of a profession. There are many aspects of architecture that you may not like. Best way to understand is find a senior or a friend that can show you how architecture is. If you one us to fill you in, it's going to be a little bit difficult without seeing first hand what you'll be doing and studying as an architect.

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Added on December 14, 2007, 7:22 pmHey, most of us are like that. Plan, plan and plan but didn't think much of the elevations. In the end, use the "form-follows-function" excuse Haha~! Don't know bout you, but I did that once Gotta learn to draw sections and elevations at the same time. Find it hard? Use SketchUp

This post has been edited by clayclws: Dec 14 2007, 07:22 PM

Hey...how you'd know where I'm from? Nice to meet someone whom I may or may not know...haha~!

"Practice" is a big word.

If you complete the architecture program in LUCT (not sure if you need to be sent to Curtin in Australia), you qualify for Part 2...as long as you finish their twinning/partnering program with Curtin. So, you don't need to sit for any Part 2 exam in Malaysia, if you want to qualify to sit for Part 3 exams.

If you don't get any Part 1 or Part 2 in Malaysia, you can still work here. Only when you get Part 3 would you be eligible to call yourself a Registered/Professional Architect. But to get Part 3, you must finish part 1 first, then Part 2...

Practice...as we see it, means being able to open up your own firm, use the designation Registered\Professional Architect, sign drawings, etc. all that requires Part 3. Getting Part 1 & 2 directly through accredited schools or passing you exams makes you eligible to take Part 3 exam. In short, you must have Part 1 & 2 to take Part 3. But of course there are other requirements you need to meet before getting Part 3.

So can you "practice" architecture after completing Part 1 & 2 exams? NO.

But you can work for architectural firms as an architect, designer, etc. One of the director in HKAS has no Part 1 or 2 or 3, and yet, he earns 5 digits monthly for being a great designer. One of GDP's head huncho does not have Part 3 and yet he is an architect. The same goes for ZLG. You can even open up your own design consultancy firm without using the term Registered\Professional Architect. My seniors are just an example. Of course, I'm not recommending these practices...

This post has been edited by clayclws: Dec 15 2007, 01:18 AM

Benjamin911, you can graduate from accredited schools and get Part 1 & 2. You can graduate from non-accredited schools and sit for the Part 1 & 2 exams later. When you get Part 2, you can call yourself an Architect, LEGALLY. Note that Part 2 enables you to design and already be registered with LAM and PAM but you cannot do other stuffs like signing the drawings, be a principle of an Architectural Firm, etc.

When you don't have any of those, you can still work with firms that acknowledge your skills, and you can still be a designer but cannot call yourself an Architect, LEGALLY. You can tell your friends, spouse, children, etc. that you're an Architect but you can NEVER EVER put that designation on your name card or you firm or letterhead or whatever that is black & white.

To be a Registered/Professional Architect that can do everything LEGALLY, you need Part 1 - so you can proceed to Part 2 - which in turn, will make you eligible to get Part 3. Only with Part 3 will you be called a Registered/Professional Architect. You will be Registered with the Board (LAM) and Association (PAM) as well.

About Taylor's College...I have no idea about their courses. If you are going to Private Colleges, I would recommend LUCT. They are very good at design and seem to very conceptually driven - something that most firms look for. Their buildability scores are not that good though. That's why they are not accredited for Part 2...at least that's what I was told.

***Malaysia is the only country so far that I know that requires the registration of both the Board and Association...other countries require you to only register with the Board...Association is not compulsory***

Yes you do need to sit for part 2 exams because LUCT is only accredited for their Part 1. UNLESS you take their twinning/partnering program with Curtin, of which, enables you to qualify Part 1 & 2 under Curtin University, of which, is accredited by LAM and PAM. Note that you are getting your degree from Curtin and not LUCT that way...this is what I understand from my friend who studied there, Kelvin Lam (hey KVReninem, remember him as well?).

Taylor, on their own, is not accredited. But their twinning/partnering program with University of Melbourne will allow undrgraduates to get the Part 1 & 2 as University of Melbourne is accredited by LAM and PAM, and your degrees will be from University of Melbourne. You need to go to Melbourne for this. You really sure about it? Maybe you should go RMIT instead.

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Added on December 15, 2007, 7:34 pmCorrect me if I'm mistaken azarimy.

This post has been edited by clayclws: Dec 15 2007, 07:34 PM

Recognized means you are acknowledged to have acquired the skills, and are eligible to take the exam.

Accredited means you are acknowledged to have acquired the skills, and are automatically qualified for Part 1 and/or 2 respectively.

No harm. Yes. But you still need to sit for the exam. Accredited schools automatically qualify you without needing to sit for exam.

RMIT...Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology. Was the best in Architecture within Australia, and was amongst the top in the world. Don't know how it fare currently though.