Jan to April is considered peak period for most audit firm

HR may be free but the hiring manager in audit may be less so.

Better take CFA or FRM?

I am referring to budgeting and forecasting in general - which covers from very technical valuation to basic ones. CIMA mainly covers simple forecast and budgeting for manufacturing companies or normal companies if you want to compared to statistical and economic valuation covered in FRM. CFA takes a less statistical approach by focusing more on investment value / investment product such as calculating of stock value, bond value, derivatives,….

CIMA is management accounting. There is no management consulting involved in it. The closest should be MBA. There is little variation between CIMA and ACCA/CPA. CIMA focus more on the management accounting in the later stages whereas ACCA/CPA focus more on financial accounting. I think employer rarely cares in MYS whether you have CIMA / ACCA as long as your working experience is relevant.

There are 2 schools of thought on finance and accounting. First school view accounting separately from finance. The second views accounting as part of finance.

If you are from the 1st school or you plan to work with an organisation that has that view, stick with Big4 audit. Most PLC will require the submission of audited financial statement Most FM role requires financial reporting background (familiarity with accounting standards) while senior audit role within Big4 audit requires (ISA and IFRS). If you like financial reporting then both of this option opens to you. However, its harder for senior level staff from Big4 (M & above) to jump to PLC / MNC. For example Big4 can pay a senior manager 10k but PLC will be hesitant to pay that amount if that auditor only has audit background. Not to say impossible but difficult and heavy competition.

If you view accounting is part & parcel of finance (think of CFA program), then you will find accounting is a subset of a larger finance world. For example, take CF department in IB. One of the main roles in IPO is to prepare pro forma financials based on accountant report prepared by the auditor. It’s good if the CF people have accounting knowledge but not detrimental if they don’t. Same applies you want to join other fields in finance. Think of having audit background in Big4 as a passport to join many different industry. However, if you think it's an automatic passport then you will be sorely mistaken especially if you want to jump to a non-financial reporting field and expect a similar parity in salary and career development with exception to fields that are incidental to audit (Ie: internal audit and quality assurance)

If you want to have accounting knowledge, consider take accounting qualification (Ie: CPA, ACCA, ICAEW,..) or finance qualification that has accounting syllabus (CFA).

This post has been edited by Topace111: Apr 4 2017, 03:13 PM

That will be the initial thought. If you like financial reporting / audit related role, Big4 audit experience is very valuable to leverage. If for some reason you want to venture to other field, most probably you have to start from a lower position or pay. If not, just soldier on.

Take 3 weeks off and go holiday at Bahamas. Come back sure no more dilemma.

Most follow gen-x culture of work hard play hard. Play hard = life?

As almost everyone have a professional qualification, it's no longer a competitive edge, consider it a minimum social expectation. Want to climb far in audit? Just stay. Bosses treasure loyal staffs rather than those threaten to tender on a continuous basis.

Got cases where the role is AM but receive SM pay. There were some AM/M cannot get promoted for many years but become partner within few years after getting the cert. As long as it's not partner role, everything can be negotiated. Becoming partner is different story.

If got better offer, communicate and give deadline. If no action, take the better offer.

Just apply B4 first? You may have overestimated the filtering process. Most freshie start on even grounds. Normally take 6 months to 1 year to truly adjust and take-off. Don’t worry too much on transition part. I am not familiar what you mean by restriction? If you are referring to the fact that it’s hard to use ICAEW to apply to non-financial position then you are not wrong. However, I don’t see it being applicable when you want to apply to B4. Most don’t have professional papers in the first place. Those that do don’t stand out in specific way when you start working. The ability to pass a paper and ability to work are 2 different skills. Most employers will accept the former as barometer for the latter but it doesn’t mean good student = good staff.

Depends you are seeking money or mobility. For example, you might find that strategy manager earn more but there is only 1 opening compared to finance manager that has 5 opening. Maybe the question you should ask is, do you want to be a specialist or general

In my view, working experience beats paper qualification in most cases when comes to jobs (especially for experienced hire). Imagine if you are hiring a CEO, will you ask which university he came from? I think a degree / professional cert just shows that you can learn and graduated in a controlled environment. Hence, I agree that companies like Big4 treasures internship more than your paper qualification. This is based on the assumption where Big4 don’t simply accept interns and your internship is meaningful (not photocopy).

Higher qualification means nothing to the employer as there is no research indicates that the student can translate what he learn from textbook to work. I take ACCA professional paper for example in the following (syllabus might change during my time)

1) P1 Ethics: Ethics are moral code rather than skill
2) P2 reporting: You are not doing reporting but audit so unlikely you will need it but adequate understanding of dr & cr and what are console adjustments. And accounting standards.
3) P3 Business: Hardly ever used unless you are in management consulting side of Big4
4) P4 Finance: Irrelevant unless you in CF Big4
5) P5 PM: Unsure and never encounter
6) P6 Tax: As auditor you are not required but good if you familiar with deferred tax and tax comp
7) P7 Audit: Too theoretical

As you can see, even ACCA is hardly relevant? However, a high achiever normally are driven by their competitive nature and this is very good motivation if you want to survive in a place where people work until 2AM during peak period.

In my view, it’s much easier for HR to filter based on those that has completed prof qualification / degree than asking all the technical questions. I think it’s more important for fresh grad to display the ability and willingness to learn and work. As I see hundreds of people joining Big4 on yearly basis, HR is bogged down with application process compared to other company. Wouldn’t it be simpler just filter like who pass ACCA go to tray 1, foreign degree tray 2, local degree tray 3, …..

Unless your MNC is much more prestigious than Big4. Big4 is not the top of the pile imo.

You can try SME first then ask for MNC. If you want internal audit in banks, better get engaged with banking client. Banks very different compared to companies

Depends which school of thought. If you think its better to join your client, then you should apply for the relevant department that may have exposure to that client. You also stand higher chance if your client likes you.

If you adhere to the firm soft policy of trying not to join your client, then you will prefer not too have any exposure with that firm

For MNC, i think it's easier if you have been their external auditor / advisory before.

Getting interview yes, getting the job no (Hint: it depends on your interview performance). Giving you the interview may be just to "jaga muka". It will be a different story if your referral is a partner or tan sri.

If you find the interview question invasive, wait till you meet your audit partner and client. I know a Big4 partner that has zero qualm of grilling a staff in front of everybody at high pitch with language that even Gordon Ramsay is proud of. You may also get that a lot from client who generally viewed auditors as annoyance in Malaysia.

Yes, I think it’s better for them to filter out candidates that don’t fit their culture. It’s not a playground. Yes, they need a lot of people during peak period but they are not obliged to hire anybody. The cost of recruiting the wrong candidate is greater than having insufficient staff. At least the manager can blame lack of resources over mistakes.

Finishing your education is their lowest and minimum expectation. They don’t need to hire top graduates for the work they do (although they wanted to but they will lose these candidates to investment banks or consulting firms). Sometimes failure is justifiable and with legitimate reasons. Some of the best people I work with are not a top scorer. It requires different traits to be a good staff and a good education background (which signifies learning capabilities) is just one of them.

Another example is how well you learn in a non-controlled environment? For example, how you respond during crisis, how you multi-task, how you prioritise key deliverables, how you deal with clients that are not cooperative, how you deal with your supervisor who has a different style …. You don’t learn any of this in textbook. The closest is through interview questions. If you can’t convince them in the interview, what makes you think they are confident to hand the projects to you?

Don’t worry; no one is immune to mistakes. I have made similar ones. The important thing is to learn and improve on it.

I just remember telling HR, I will stay until whatever time they want to stay. Oh how the words bite me in the back.
I am unsure on the PWC thing though.