I've heard a friend rave about "Electones". Are those keyboards and are they any good?

Edit: Double post.

This post has been edited by changhao: Dec 9 2006, 03:26 PM

Electones are the high-end stuff and comes complete with pedals and the stand to makes it looks like a piano, and all the bells and whistle.

For beginners, i suppose u don't really need electones.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electone

This post has been edited by Matrix: Dec 12 2006, 09:13 AM

since u can alredi play the guitar, u should have some knowledge of how chords/keys works. can just learn the keyboard by yourself. nowadays with site like youtube, theres alot of vids for beginners on learning keyboards. its not that difficult, get some chord/music charts, and start messing about. this way might look abit unsystematic, but hey no one will influence your musical skills. its all you. :-)

That depends on personal opinions, keyboard/piano is harder to master (Piano are much much more powerful than the guitar)... Anyway, to start, yes, is very easy... and keyboard and piano are not much different except the key touch and some other minor differences, the way to play is the same, just the feel and touch is different.

To learn the piano or keyboard, it's better to buy a piano/digital piano because it will actually train your fingers and you'll actually learn faster... the sound is also very important, you'll be amazed how well you can capture the tunes/play better when the sounds are better... In a Piano/Digital Piano, the sounds are usually better than the keyboard.

I started with a 61-keys keyboard, that time I don't know much about these stuffs, I just wanna get something cheap for my lessons... later I found out the keys are not enough, the sounds are not satisfying, when I played on the digital piano in during the lessons, I can't play so well even tough I've practice enough, and catching the melody/etc is much easier when in the lesson with digital piano... the feel is very different... After I bought the digital piano, I improve so much and so fast, and the moment I touch back my keyboard, I feel it's so plastic and feels like a toy...

Anyway, as for the classes, I suggest you go for the "PLAY BY EAR" course... They have 3 levels in total and by the time you finish LEVEL 1, you're approximately Grade 5 of normal Piano lessons... There's only 20 lessons in LEVEL 1, which would take up to 6 months (or you can take it easy with 2 lessons each month up to 1 year). Actually this is NOT just learning the piano, it's learning THE ART OF MAKING MUSIC using the piano. You DON'T actually learn NOTES, you learn how to listen to a song, play it by ear, learn how to catch/build the chords, create your own style, etc... What do they mean by art of making music? In normal piano lessons, you're actually learning HOW TO play the piano and master it, in this, you're actually learning how to create music and also learning the piano since you're using it... which means, you can apply the theory/knowledge you learn on almost every instrument, you just need to know HOW to play them.

I'm still a student, currently undergoing Level 2, and I still can't read notes... but so far, I'm able to play the songs I want by ear and create the chords from the melody itself, some may not 100% accurate to the song but some chords are NOT fixed and you can also play the song very differently depending on the styles you apply.

Last time before I took the lessons, I was able to catch the melody by hearing to a song, but never understand what is a chord or the left hand part, I took up this lessons cause it's "PLAY BY EAR". If you can play by ear naturally, you should check out this course. One thing about this course is... it's a fast course, which means, you have to really work for it and train,... unless you are very familiar with the piano/keyboard....

Check:
http://www.playbyear.com.my
You call up to check for their presentation, they have students over 80 years of age as well... there's even a lady, forgot who is that, some datin I think, completed and graduated from Level 2 of the course... They even have blind students. On November last year, they have the blind students showing off on stage. The fees I would say it's very cheap since you don't need long time to learn... For each level is 2K+...

I would not suggest you getting a keyboard actually, but if you insist on getting one, try to get at least 76-keys, it shouldn't cost more than 2K for a decent one anyway. Since you have more budget, you should check out 88-keys Digital Piano with Weigthed Keys. Go test those keyboards/pianos before you buy to make sure you like how it feels/the touch and the sounds... Also, do check for the functions/rythms/etc.. which you require. (For "Play By Ear", the rythmn is quite important or very, but I never really used it cause my Level 1 "Coach" (that's what they call) never use it.).

If you wanna check more on digital pianos and keyboard, you can check Roland US website, but their instruments are NOT cheap...
http://www.rolandus.com
Navigate to each product, usually you will see there're videos for it and you can see what it can do. For Digital Piano, you can check out the HP series or KR Series, the KR Series is more expensive and there're tons of videos for it. For Keyboards, you can check out the Arranger series, check out EXR series, those are great Arranger Keyboards but they're expensive and there's only 1 or 2 videos (There's a cheap model, around 3K, I forgot the model name, it's quite new and has lotsa features too...). Finally, I personally like the STAGE PIANO RD-700SX, check out the videos... the cheaper version would be RD-300SX but it's quite a big difference for me.

Anyway, I'm not suggesting you to buy Roland since you're budget is low, just informing you about the website as it provides tons of videos/demos on the products, which other makes really lacks... If you're looking for latest features, etc... you can check Casio, it's very cheap and very up to date, just check their website and you can find their piano/keyboard have a lot of features, and they usually have learning functions too...

For sounds and touch/feel, you should try them out yourself, everyone has their own opinions on each make.

Lastly, good luck and all the best!

I don't think you can devote time to music if you have something else on the side.

I as a student find myself stuck between books and music (saxophone, piano, turntables).. and have neglected music all together to devote myself full time on books.

It requires a lot of time and dedication.

play by ear very interesting.... where u attend the class nowadays? i assume u already in level 3 now?

Completed level 2 but not up to level 2 standard I suppose cause can't play that well (comparing to what they show me what I'll achieve after Level 2), need more practice and fingering... In level 2, it's more about bass, accompaniments and playing styles (e.g. latin, jazz, etc). Biggest problem is to learn to freely control both hands,... also the legs for the sustain.

For level 3, it's more advance and harder to play, so I think I should get very used to the piano first and also good 2 hand coordination before I move on, level 3 is now split into 2 level, so there's 40 classes.

Anyway, the most important thing is, being able to listen to a song, and create (get the melody. get/create the chords) and play it on the piano. You learn to listen and feel the song and play it instead of playing by reading notes. You should already learn that in Level 1.

Levels? Not grade?

Which music school you study?

he is mentioning about school "play by ear" lesson...

Andy~ so which branch you attend the class? i wish to join too? and you clear about the fees and schedule? mind to share?

2k per year or month for "Play By Ear Classes"?

suddenly i feel like playing piano again..... i'm gonna go play my sister's keyboards

I attend the one @ subang, the last 2 classes they shifted to USJ Taipan,... very jam.... =O and no parking...

The fees as I know of is a one time payment, but I heard some student have some different arrangement on the payments.

As for the schedule, you are free to arrange with your teacher (they're called Music Coach instead, because they're like a coaching, guiding you). For Level 1 and Level 2, there're 20 classes for each level, for Level 3, it's split into 2 sub-levels, 20 classes each, total 40 classes. For each Level, you have 1 year to complete, so you can do it slowly or fast, it's up to you, most importantly, you can keep up and have enough practice. If you're already very familiar with the keyboard/piano, then you should be able to progress very fast.

Per level (which is 1 year, but actually 20 classes).... If per month, I straight open my own! =P
It's not exactly 2k, it's 2k++, not sure about the exact amount, but if you divide it, its roughly 100++ per class, since there's 20 classes. By the way, there's only 3 levels for the normal classes, there're other types of piano classes towards profesional playing. Basically, level 1 is good enough for playing for fun/hobby. Level 2 you'll learn about accompaniments (backups), different playing styles (jazz, latin, etc) which is very tough, especially to me, requires very good 2 hand coordination, timing and accuracy (it'll be beneficial/easier if you can play the keyboard/piano well). Level 3 I'm not exactly sure, but it's more advanced, such as, how to add additional chords/keys to make the song more alive, filling-in those "missing" part of a song, etc...

Hope the info is clear, for more information you can visit the website or call up for inquiry:
http://www.playbyear.com.my

about RM100+ per class? how many hour it will takes? think its more expensive than normal one. which is about RM100 per month but only 4 times, about RM25perclass, but only 1/2 hour la. if 20 times only RM500. right? but ofcoz i believe there is different la...

If you can't handle the "play by ear" class, then you're wasted.

Means, when teacher teach, you need to help yourself as well.

That's why their called coach, they're guiding you... But there's *money back guarantee*, of course, as usual terms and conditions apply, where if they feel you really have no musical talent (you already tried and follow exactly), then you get refund within few classes.

Anyway, it also depends on the music coach, they should help and guide you well and some good one might give extra classes or make sure you understand and get it correct. In latter classes of the 20 classes, it might get tough for few topics and 45 minutes isn't enough since you'll be performing previous lessons in the first few minutes. So, it's up to the music coach if they're willing to give some extra time required is necessary.

Lastly, the students should work hard and practice as well, especially those who have no piano/keyboard background and are struggling to even play the piano, so obviously they'll be slow.. It's not like conventiona piano lesson where you spend a few classes just to play the few note, etc... In play by ear, in the first lesson you're already learning music. There're exercises like scales which requires the student to practice by their own... So for beginners, I would suggest not to rush it, maybe 2 weeks per classes, and take to time to practice, 1-2 hour per day, more if possible or the day you're more free. 1-2 hour may seem very long, but when you're hooked to the piano, it's really very short.

By the way, for each level, you don't just learn the songs provided, you're also allow to choose your own song to play, and the coach will guide you how to create the song completely by ear, or how to create the chords with just the melody. They will also let you create your own style of playing the song instead of following the original.

In play by ear 2, you'll learn different styles (Jazz, Latin), which you will APPLY it to any suitable song. You're not just learning to play jazz/latin/etc song, but also how to convert/apply those style to any suitable song. But, it's really tough, cause most of these styles emphasizes on the bass, your left hand will be playing the bass, while your right hand will be playing the melody, you'll need good 2 hand coordination.

It is better to go for proper class, rushing isn't good (just my opinion).

Haha, that's one funny quote,... how old are you btw?

Anyway, do you know that normal piano lessons are the "Classical" music path? You're learning classical music, and you're spending way too much time on learning many unnecessary or simple things, some music school will shorten those, etc.

Well, my point is, there's always MANY ways to do things including learning, this is NOT rushing, that's why I say, you can take it slow, two weeks per class, heck you can adjust yourself, for easier lessons, you might only need little practice. Do you think what you're learning in school now is NOT simplified version? We're humans and we're always moving forward and advancing and simplifiying our life, make learning faster, etc... Be open and try to differentiate between "short-cut" path and simplified path... Many people can't accept these simplified or easier learning methods by simply accusing them as short-cut, etc...

Anyway, if you've been a teacher or teach before, any subject, you should know you can either teach the old traditional way, which usually takes a very long time, or you can find ways to make your student understand faster, etc.

For the "Play By Ear", there're teaching you creating music by your feeling and ear using the piano, the natural way, music is NOT paper, is your feeling and hearing... It's simply teaches you to understand what is music, how to create music, etc... You usually don't learn or understand it in conventional piano classes untill after Grade 5 mostly...

Before you judge something, try to understand what it does and how it works, this course is very straightforward and easy to understand, even old people can pickup easily, the oldest student if I'm not wrong is 80+, and got one Datin completed Level 2, fyi. Kids understand and can create and play the piano really really well within 2 years of classes usually (for Kids, they have 40 classes per level due to more attention needed). It's simply the same theory and technique when you self-learn, the founder/creator of this "Play By Ear" is a self-taught musician, he created all these simplified methods (e.g. formula for calculating MAJOR chords = R+4+3) and techniques, and he can play up to 9 instruments if I'm not wrong.

By the way, there're NOT just "Play By Ear", there're so many simplified courses out there on the internet, and it's not something NEW anyway. But if you plan to learn classical, then you're adviced to follow the conventional piano classes which will take years... Classical is a slow and tough path, if you can keep up and stay it's good, but don't one day say, "this is not what I wanted"... which happens to many who don't understand before taking up the courses, which is one major reason why they drop out of piano classes.

Try looking up Scott Houston "The Piano Guy", he has one book and video which teach you the simple methods of learning the piano... In the video, he also ask the question "Who wants to learn to play songs like the latest pop songs, christmas songs, etc?" and "Who wants to learn the classical music?"... obviously you know the results, and he also mentioned that many people didn't understand what the conventional piano lessons does and goes for it, and they're thrown book by book, playing "DO RE MI" for a few classes, and they can't even play the song they wanted after a long period of time... Watch the video, it's interesting and funny.. He also mentioned "Lead Sheet" (some called it fake sheet because they thought it's fake), if you don't know what it is, it's simply a song sheet without the bass clef, which many conventional piano players got confused and cannot play... In simplified methods, usually, they're using Lead Sheet mainly because they understand how music works, they can even come up with chords given the melody. For me, one drawback is I didn't learn to read notes, so I can't read notes, but even if I can, I can sight play, so this is one drawback/weakness with this course but doesn't mean one cannot learns it, just that I don't bother learning sight-playing as I don't use notes/sheet. I'm not really can't read notes, I know the "FACE" thingy, but I can't read it as fast. For notes/sheet usually I'll use to double-check for whether I got the correct chords, but you have to understand also that not all chords are fixed. I don't you don't take this as boasting, just sharing the information of what you can achieve from these courses, in fact, I'm considered not so good at it, if you compare it with the music coach, they can easily catch the chords and very fast, very impressive to even see. And don't say "because they're the teacher/music coach ma", most of them were students, many start from 0 or beginning, so some might only be few years or more exprience with the piano. Like my Level 2 music coach, which is only about 3 years in piano, but can play extremely well.

Lastly, altough all this *might* sound interesting and/or easy and intimidating... it's still important to understand and know that, which I've mentioned, you're required to work hard and practice as well and don't rush it... If you need more time to practice, do so,... it's important that you understand and can keep up... Also, it does not mean no students will drop out / lost interest from these course, just less and depends on whether they know what they wanted and willing to work for it... For normal piano classes, you need to work hard as well, doesn't mean for normal it's slower then you can take it easy...



This post has been edited by Andy214: Jul 18 2007, 10:31 AM

it is never too late to start. however, first you have to realise what kind of music you want to play. classical or contemporary. classical is difficult to master and needs longer time. not recommended for older ppl.

if you prefer the modern music, then contemporary is the way to go. it is easier to understand and learn. also you'll be trained to play by ear and break free from the musical scores. by the time you've mastered it, you don't need a music sheet to play everytime. this is the best path to choose if you like to play out the tunes you've just heard from the radio.

get a decent keyboard with at least touch response or better with weighted keys. Yamaha and Casio are good to start with. Yamaha, go for PSR or DGX series. Casio, go for WK3500 and above series