can elaborate more on the low profile part?

mainly because they adopt standard layout for the keys.
but also because they build quality ones (but for the LED quality, it's rather subjective.)

nice dolch on filco

ducky zero better
but filco better-est

i never own any 60% keyboard before. but i think they are damn nice and cute to own one!

terima kasih skye, got my JTK keycaps
they is damn the awesome at such good price!

where is your location?

dedicated media button is very important?
how about needing to press fn + <another key> to get your media functions?

so far i've one in mind which is CM Quickfire XTI.
a new mkb by CM.

a quick search from garage sales shows the price is RM545-RM599

https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...l=quickfire+xti
https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopic=3576332&hl=xti

comes with a dual led keyboard of blue+red.

ntw got o-ring somemore?

i don't think the switch will rosak due to water since the switch itself is all mechanical parts.
what really rosak is most probably due to the pcb.
i hope you got leave it to really dry before plugging in to the usb port.

always follow your finger/feeling, by that i mean you have to try novatouch with your own fingers before making that decision

u dun care about the review first, unless they say something about the board died few days after using.
if you like it, then you buy it.

that's how i got into mkb as well.
i imagine how the keys will feel like based on gif image.
thought i would love brown switch. but once i tried my hands on blue, insta buy.

honestly, i was expecting those gaming kind of design, but i was surprised!
how much you got them for and where?

Taobao
here you go. you are welcome.

^^true story bro

that moment when you are no longer a noob in purchasing stuff outside of malaysia, your wallet cries. deep.

i think the general "hate" towards razer (and other gaming brand keyboard makers) is due to the following:-

#1) they are not using standard layout. (same goes to the other famous brand names that is not using standard layout such as Corsair, Logitech, Steelseries..)

#2) the quality build is not on par with the money you are paying. (though it's a bit subjective on this, despite them using cheaper quality stuff, they find ways to make it look or feel quality.)

#3) they use cheap products (eg, using Kailh switch maker for their new series, Kailh previously has notorious reputation of inconsistency and stem breaking issue.) and market them as top quality products and all the FANBOYS worships it.

#4) because of the FANBOYS and #1, there's fragmentation among mkb users with standard layout and non-standard layout, group buys for keycaps are a tad difficult to reach MOQ or reach high volume for cheaper cost.

Standard Layout and Non-Standard Layout

Standard Layout


Standard Winkeyless or WKL layout


"Gaming" or Non-standard layout


Example of a keycaps groupbuy


Most of the newer keycaps set from groupbuys will allow a non-standard layout to change all the keys except for the spacebar.
still waiting for the day where 6.5u and 6u spacebars are included in every groupbuy.

however, do note that this is only important to those who likes to change keycaps. if you won't get bored with the same original keycaps even after the wasd's font fades away, or don't mind changing a keycaps set with an unmatching spacebar, or don't mind using the universal black translucent keycaps from maxkeyboard.com. (i haven't update myself on the availability of universal keycaps, this is the only company i know who sells a full universal aftermarket keycaps set.)

IMHO, if razer uses standard layout for their keyboards, you'll see more razer mkb users here.
that will be true for me, because if razer actually uses standard layout, my first mkb would've been a razer and not ducky shine 2. #ConfessionOfAMKBUser
this is my own opinion towards why i didn't choose/like razer's keyboard (or any other gaming keyboard), it may or may not be the same for others.

i did manage to try razer bw chroma with razer's green switch aka razer new clicky switch. i was actually quite excited to try it out when i was handed that board for cable repair.
there's still inconsistency across the whole board but that's not too bad. only thing that bothers me is the mushy clickiness, but i think that's a sacrifice in order for a lower actuation point.
having said all that, i'm still eager to try out razer's orange switch

davey.havoc

1) Rip off or not, but most groupbuys for keycaps in GH, DT, MD, China forums, Korean forums, they all have supported layout for Wk and Wkl, hence they are dubbed as Standard Layout since it's easily available from most keycaps gb.
Wkl (Winkeyless) comes about because most of the older vintage mechanical keyboards uses that layout. For example, the infamous IBM Model M and some Cherry vintage boards. The early adopters of mkb likes the look of the vintage wkl keyboards and hence they have made it into standard due to popular demands and the availability from big keycaps manufacturers such as SP and GMK.
Initially the groupbuys for keycaps starts with Standard Wk layout, thanks to Moogle, and later on, thanks to Tsangan, somehow because of him we have Wkl kits available in groupbuys and now we can see most of the current groupbuys have Wkl kit included by default.

I have no comment on the Infinity keyboard as I didn't follow the start and progress of it at all, but I think it's a good step towards a globalisation standard for future keycaps groupbuys!

2) Yes, quality is subjective since it's a hit and miss for anything that is manufactured through mass production. 2 keyboards of the same make doesn't necessarily means they have the same quality. This applies to reputable keyboard maker such as Filco and Ducky as well, their products too have defects. I personally didn't own a Razer keyboard before, but this information is what I have seen across a few forums and reviews from users, the complains ranging from key chatter, dead led, malfunction board, and to the rubberized surface finishing starts to peel off. Kailh switch already has bad reputation from the start with it's switch being inconsistent and the stem easily breaking apart. To hear them making switch for razer's new line up is too much for some people, but to be honest I have yet to hear such horror stories from the "new razer" switch. I guess they have up the quality this time around.

3) I agree with you on this, they deserve the credit for the marketing hype they have created.
I guess this can be quite related to the eternal battle between Android and Apple, lol!

4) I have explained some of it in #1. Wkl kit/layout was introduced not long after Wk standards have been made into regular groupbuy. Most people who joins the groupbuy buys the Wkl kit as well even if they are not using it, because this makes it easier to resell them as it covers for both Wk and Wkl users. So there's really no problem or fragmentation for Wk and Wkl.

For the gaming layout mkb users, they can't really change the full keycaps because there's no 6u or 6.5u spacebars included in groupbuys, YET.
This will discourage them from buying/joining the groupbuys because they can't get a fitting spacebar for the colour theme of the keycaps groupbuy unless they don't mind having an odd looking spacebar. Due to this, it reduces the number of potential groupbuy participants as there is a lot of gaming mkb out there.

About the god tailo sifu thing, lol! There's fanboys everywhere. At the moment, the Koreans have the best custom keyboard designers, so their custom keyboard are very expensive and rare due to them making it limited editions. Some of the rare boards are extremely difficult to get even if you can pay for it as they make it exclusive only for Koreans. (If there's anything I dislike about Koreans, it's the way they make keyboards rare, exclusive and expensive, and also kimchi.)

I did mentioned though that changing keycaps is only important to those who likes to change keycaps, so yes, not everyone give two hoots about changing keycaps. Maybe only if their spacebar and wasd legend starts to fade/peel off like this, then they might consider.



Personally, this is a deal breaker to me if I want to ensure my keyboard's longevity or 2nd hand resale value but I'm sure not everyone agrees with me.
Also, I like to have different look on my keyboard by changing the keycaps, which is a wallet breaker thing

Some of the points is what I gathered from various forums and reviews, not entirely from myself. I'm just interpreting and consolidating the information that I've seen so far, with some of my own thoughts into it as well.

to be fair, i didn't browse much on Md's keycaps groupbuy recently. my wallet is broke at the moment.
i've looked at the link you provided for the joker theme and the otaku theme.
it feels a bit of a blast into the past lol! that looks more or less like what GH's groupbuy is a couple of years ago!
i remember that i tried to avoid the path of Wkl as it means having to spend more on keycaps....ugh!
you just made me realized, i haven't seen much SP's groupbuy in Gh anymore, i think PMK and MD is the preferred medium for SP's keycaps.
but now i get it why you don't see wkl as standard..haha!

the wkl kit always have lower order because of the expensive price tag and there's without any doubt more standard wk user compared to wkl user.
i usually see moq of 25 or 50 for wkl kit. i don't recall seeing anyone setting 100 moq for wkl kit.
some groupbuy organizers in GH attempt to make it easier for everyone by including wkl kit into the base tkl kit.

SA Retro
Taihao GB

also, all of GMK's and cherry profile PBT dyesub keycaps comes in full set for standard 104 + wkl.

one word of caution, lurk GH at your own risk...or in this case, your wallet's risk.
2 reasons.
1) the groupbuys in gh will make your wallet bleed
2) some of the groupbuys in gh will make your wallet bleed without receiving your end product.

be cautious of popular groupbuy as of recently, they are taking groupbuy participants as donors.
they will delay you for 1-2 years. replacing your missing keys take just as long.
i'm trying my best to be patient with them until i receive all my sets, and then i'm not joining the gb organized by them any more unless there's more rules to make the groupbuy organizers more responsible.

EDIT:
oh, i doubt it's finger nail scratching, but there's other example of worn out keycaps which you can Google.


This post has been edited by justnits: Dec 7 2015, 08:58 AM