I'm not saying that people should stick ONLY with PM, don't get me wrong bro..
I believe non of my posts asked people not to choose other fund managers but only PM..
I'm just saying through what other forumers and I have experienced with PM funds, not just by rumours..
I'm just asking him for clarification, since he's saying he's not getting satisfactory returns..
If what he says is really true, then I could learn something too right..?
Cheers bro..

Based on what I can see, if you invested anytime between 02-Jan-03 and 02-Jan-04 until 18-Oct-07, your average profit should be at least 95.80% (annualised 23.95%)..
How come you're saying that you have only profited about 56%..?
I don't quite understand, unless PM did something on the charts to make their funds look better..
Even by looking at Lipper, you'll see these funds growing more than 50% on average for the last 3 years..
Have you still been keeping these funds, or did you redeem early..?
I'm not to say that you're wrong, but did you miss out something in your calculation..?
Did you include the distributions/splits by these funds (they have announced a few distributions already)..

for Small Cap, i started investing since 2000 and the rest around 2003..
not too sure. i am checkign with my agent. she have not replied my email

It's better to check the returns from their systems..
It includes all the profits from distributions/splits, thus more accurate..
Distributions will greatly affect the prices of funds, especially for you who have invested for so long..
Hope you get your reply soon and you can share with us the results..

yep

Profit taking can mean 2 things
1st...u take out all
2nd...u take back your capital...left your profit there to grow some more. So if losses occurs, it is on ur profit, coz u ady take back your capital, so u wont feel the pain. If it grows higher...better, coz ur 'profit' are making more 'profit'.

Swicthing fees (PMutual) are based on number of transaction made, not based on your units. Everytime time you switch, RM25 transaction fees r needed. (there are few exceptions, pls look back a few pages where i hv posted the fees of switching)

(a)
ok...let say initially u bought your fund at RM0.25/unit. assume you put in RM10, 000
No. of units = Rm10k / 0.25 = 40000units

(b)
Your units price shoot up until RM0.30/unit....then market starts to go down, u manage to switch 35,000 units out at the price of RM0.30.

( c)
So, units left in account is 5000 units (with cost price of 25 cents each)

(d)
Price drop until 0.27...then u switch in to buy back. Let say u only switch in RM5000
no of units = Rm5000 / 0.27 = 18518.5 units

(e) Total units you have = 5000 units (previous) + 18518.5 units (new switch in) = 23,518.5 units

Total capital pumped in = (5000 units X RM0.25) + RM5000 = RM6250

Average cost per unit = RM6250 / 23, 518.5 units = RM 0.2657/units

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If u switched out all...then buy back in at 0.27...your cost price will be 0.27/units lor.
So, it does helps to average down cost/unit if your initial buy is at low price.

Keep in mind that this is just simple calculation, I did not includes service charges & switching fees into the calculation.

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If anyone have better and easier way to explain this please share with us

This post has been edited by kingkong81: Oct 19 2007, 07:40 PM

Oic~~I understand now...thanks!!!

ic ic....i get what u mean now by lowering the cost price. yippee~~

Sorry sorry, another question...(the last i promise >.< ya muz feel tat i very fan now >.< )
In this case, average unit cost is reduced. may i know what are the pros for lower average unit cost? (sorry another noobie question >.<) Coz if I act according to the 2nd scenario (switch all out & buy back at 0.27), wouldn't i earn more and have more units in my hands even if the average unit cost is higher?

Scenario 1
Starting modal= RM10,000
Initial fund price= RM0.25/unit
Initial no of units=10k/0.25=40,000units

NAV increase to 0.30, switched 35,000 units out=RM 10,500 at hand
5000 units left, price drop to 0.27= RM 1350

So my nett assets worth will be Rm10,500 + RM 1350= RM11850

Let's say I switch back in RM5000 at 0.27= 18518.5 units
with RM5500 left in hand.

So total I got 18518.5 + 5000 (previous) = 23,518.5 units plus RM5500 left in hand
Average cost per unit = [(5000 x RM0.25) + RM5000]/ 23,518.5 = RM 0.2657/unit

Scenario 2
Starting modal= RM10,000
Initial fund price= RM0.25/unit
Initial no of units=10k/0.25=40,000units

NAV increase to 0.30, switched 40,000 units out=RM 12,000 at hand (nett assets worth)
0 units left

price drops to 0.27

Let's say I switch back in RM6500 at 0.27= 24074.1 units
with RM5500 left in hand.

So total I got 24074.1 units plus RM 5500 left in hand
Average cost per unit = RM 0.27/unit


Can count like that ka? haha....I simply count according to my logic, dunno correct or not~ Pls tell mi if i count wrongly >.< (me study science one, dunno how to do accounting at all )

So assuming my twisted logic ( ) is correct, in scenario 2 even though the average unit cost is higher, but in the end the nett assets is worth more (RM12k agaisnt RM11850) and the no of units also more (24074.1 units agaisnt 23,518.5 units). Would it be more profitable to follow scenario 2? or is there any special reason for lowering average unit cost?

arigatou~~~

I called her. she said it is possible that she switch some of the profit to Bond. she will send me a details statement soon. I remembered signing some forms for switching. Hopefully i did not wrongly sign anything. is there anyway i can track my recored from the time i started investing (year 2000 till now) liek going to thier office and request for a statement?

war is bond? haha... beside bond n fund stil gt wat thing?

Have you heard of buy Low sell High??? The concept is almost the same, we try to buy at low price (accumulate more units at lower price), i.e. and try to lower our cost per unit as much as possible, so when the price go up, our profit margin will be high.

I would not say you are totally wrong in your calculation...it you are considering the total net worth of your cash + investment mayb you have a point there.

But, what we are looking at is not the money/net worth at that time only...we aim at gaining more in longer term

you see...in scenario 1, your average cost price is at 0.2657...Scenario 2, avg cost price is 0.27

then consider this scenario...after switching in back at 0.27, the market soar, and the price go up to RM0.35/unit

wat is the simple return for scenario 1 and 2?

Scenario 1 = [(0.35-0.2657)/0.2657 ] x 100%= 31.73%

Scenario 2 = [(0.35-0.27)/0.27 ] x 100%= 29.63%

Difference = 2.1%

so, u see the difference? so, scenario 1 will be more profitable than scenario 2

then again, these are juz examples, remember u hv to take into account of service charge & switching fees

nobody answer my question 1... T.T

if i intend to start to invest 1k in PM.. wat fund u all wil recommend?

PSEASF?

basically bond don't have equity exposure

It depends on what're you looking for? Purely equity? Purely bond? Mixture of both (balanced fund)? Income fund (dividend fund)? Cash or money market fund? Local funds (like PRSF)? Off-shore funds (like Far-East series, Asian series, China series and ASEAN series)?

PSEASF is an off-shore (more exposure in ASEAN markets), equity fund. Read its prospectus to understand more.

I think you can request for a reprint of your statements, but need to pay..
It's going to be hell if you have not been doing proper portfolio management for these 4 years, but it's still manageable if you spend some time on it..

Yatta~ Suddenly I get what u mean....thanks a lot!!! U're really helpful de

In scenario 2, i think u actually earn more in terms of total nett worth than scenario 1 IF THE MARKET SOARS ..although if count percentage scenario 1 seems more profitable, but this is only taking into account the 2nd round of buying/selling.... In scenario 2, I end up with more units, so if market soars, i earn more in the end compared to scenario 1 (in ratio to the initial capital invested).

But if market drops & i dun manage to pull out my capital in time, I will lose more in scenario 2 than scenario 1.

So leaving behind some units to lower average cost price is to reduce my risk...lower risk means less returns too.

Correct kah if I understand it this way sifu?

(PS: U own the Ignis Max Factory ver. in ur signature kah?!?!?! WOW!!! That's the best ver!!!! I want~~~~ Could only afford the Alter ver....not so nice.....sobs.... )

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Added on October 20, 2007, 3:21 pm



From my limited knowledge....I think bond is like loaning out a huge sum of money by an institution for the borrower to do anything with the money, eg do business. When a fixed date/maturity date reaches (normally a few years), the borrower have to return back the borrowed sum plus a fixed interest (no matter how well the business of the borrower is doing...). So bonds are very safe and very low risk. But low returns also coz the interest is fixed.

So if invest in bond funds is quite safe, but yield lower returns (unless the fund also invests quite a high percentage on equities).

Equity funds normally invests mostly in stock market, so there is a higher possibility to earn more, but high risk to lose money also.

Hope I didn't give out any wrong info My juz newbie pls correct me if wrong...paiseh. >.< There are many financial sifus here can ask them more

Hope it helped

This post has been edited by chidori_nep: Oct 20 2007, 03:23 PM

yeah.. i am learning the hard way now. previosuly i just let my agent run the show. it was only recently i realize how much i have in PM and its time for me to take charge.. hope to learn form you guyss

If your agent has the time to run your show, then you can feel relieved but if your agent is not doing any monitoring, guess you have to DIY.

For me, I prefer DIY, even for UT which is managed by fund managers..
We need to make our own decisions so we will not blame anyone when it goes wrong..
If we let our agents do it, we might blame them if things go wrong..

In addition to that, imagine when you ask your agent to switch and he didn't. Rugi...

So I prefer to DIY too

So this Monday you are really plannign to shift your equity to bond is it?

You are learning fast

To me, leaving some low-priced (low-cost) units behind is more to lower my average cost during 2nd buy in...this is in order to maximize my return when the markets rebound. The risk is still there, if market continues to drop lower than my cost price, the units left behind are actually making losses now...so, it is still a bit risky.

So, both methods have its pro & cons...depends on which you prefer more...

There still lots of things to learn...i'm still learning everyday as well...

(P/S: Yep...Max Fact Ignis is the first PVC figurine that i bought...really a nice figurine. Adding Yamato Non-non to my collection soon... )

dzi921 has already switched his using TeleMutual.

I don't think I'll go for any switching for the mean time.