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cherroy
post Jun 22 2015, 08:01 AM

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QUOTE(kimsim @ Jun 22 2015, 07:51 AM)
Ya quite big of the area.

You might consider for 2hp at least, inverter can allow you turn on more often.. Rather than non inverter for 3 hours  only.
*
Non-inverter can turn on 3 hours only? laugh.gif


cherroy
post Jun 22 2015, 08:05 AM

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QUOTE(greyshadow @ Jun 21 2015, 12:32 PM)
I got this pana non-inverter 1hp aircon in my room, 8 years already

last year got repair once for the compressor, replaced the capacitor or transformer thingy, as the technician claim the compressor wasn't working
refilled the gas as well.

then last night again the same thing, not cold at all, at it's the the hottest night of the year! doh.gif

I'm guessing must be the compressor again doh.gif
now thinking should I fork out few hundred just to repair & service it
or should I just throw this 8 years old unit away and go grab a new inverter type? hmm.gif

do the aircon men accept the used units as trade in? hmm.gif
*
Sometimes, it is not worthwhile to fix old problematic appliances.

Labour cost may be expensive, as well as you don't have warranty that after the fix, it will not be problematic.
Fixing a compressor or replacing compressor may cost a couple of hundred buck already, unless it is just replacing inexpensive part like capacitor etc, which just a simple fix, then different story.


cherroy
post Jun 22 2015, 08:47 AM

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QUOTE(kimsim @ Jun 22 2015, 08:24 AM)
That is the common sense on ppls who ever installed non inverter for turn on 3 hours only for when is hot weather or for show only laugh.gif

For more ppls who ever used Aircon very often deffinelty go for inverter lah... Ha ha
*
Ten of thousand of offices, shops are using non-inverter air-cond for more than 8~10 hours out there.
So they turn on 3 hours?
or they are stupid to install non-inverter?
No
Why?

Because there won't be much saving by using inverter air-cond in those environmenet, as people go in and out frequently that resulted loss of cool air frequently, and the air-cond won't able to achieve desired temp like 23c, whereby the advantage of inverter air-cond won't be significant.

Despite pages and pages explaining how inverter works, and how the saving come from, it seems still can get a grasp of the understanding on the inverter mechanism.

Inverter /= automatic save current.
It depended on how it works, and being used.

Undersize air-cond, room that can't properly heat insulated, or loss of heat, aka cool air can't properly contained within the room, you won't see the saving from inverter.
As when inverter is full blast or running 100% time, the electricity consumption is as same as non-inverter.

Look at the label of electricity consumption of inverter compressor, the wattage needed by inverter is as same as non-inverter.
cherroy
post Jun 22 2015, 09:33 AM

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QUOTE(kimsim @ Jun 22 2015, 08:51 AM)
Office is never care about what Aircon are you usage since the air can keep that area as cold as possible.

Coz in office is earn money one.

Unlike home user may suffer on electric bill for monthly, nowadays everything has been increased, then still wanna worried about electric bill anymore..

laugh.gif

Different situation from ppls of views

You still never realized from non inverter change to inverter for monthly bills do you can save how much.
*
Offices space consume even more electricity, with most corporate environment are cost saving minded nowadays, every opportunity that they can save cost, they will do

That's why I said, still can't get a grasp how inverter works.

Inverter does save you electricity when being used in desired condition, but it is not "automatically" give you the saving.

Look at the label on the compressor or spec of inverter compressor, does it stated inverter compressor consume 30% or 50% less than non-inverter?
The answer is no.


cherroy
post Jun 22 2015, 09:48 AM

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QUOTE(kimsim @ Jun 22 2015, 09:31 AM)
Undersize air-cond, room that can't properly heat insulated, or loss of heat, aka cool air can't properly contained within the room, you won't see the saving from inverter.

As when inverter is full blast or running 100% time, the electricity consumption is as same as non-inverter.

A: as for inverter should draw much more power consumption than non inverter, cause from inverter is offer to variable speed & capacity of cooling.

Normal 1hp inverter can able to achieve from 8500-12000 max Btu, is depend your fan & temperature preset.

Look at the label of electricity consumption of inverter compressor, the wattage needed by inverter is as same as non-inverter.

A: inverter have part loan after the temperature reaching may runs lower or slower speed of outdoor unit, even at night time the noise also keep as low than day time.
*
Inverter still need to run at 100% to cool down the room when the room is not cold enough or far from the desired temperature.

Tell me, when the room temperature is 28c, while the preset temperature tell the air-cond to achieve 18c,
what the compressor will do?

Run at partial load? your room will forever not cool enough, as at partial load, the coolness delivered also becoming partial.
The compressor need to run at 100% rpm to cool down the room in this situation.
Run at 100% rpm --> electricity consumption is as same as non-inverter.




cherroy
post Jun 22 2015, 09:52 AM

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QUOTE(kimsim @ Jun 22 2015, 09:40 AM)
Just remember what I said inverter have part load.
Non inverter is fixed speed there is never reduce the power consumption an even the temperature pre-set are reached..

The only works as on & off, but for non inverter would more accurate on & off very often is due to raining day and night time after 2am to next morning.

When is day time from the non inverter is never works as on & off unless is set to 28C ha ha

Compare to 1hp below
If consider part load as low as 450w per hour vs fixed speed as normal input watt as 800w they Is between the big gap.
*
Another wrong understanding.

Non-inverter shut down the compressor when the preset temperature is reached, this is where the power consumption being reduced, but this is poor compared to inverter mechanism of reduce the rpm of the compressor.

Inverter doesn't run partial load all the time, it depended on the situation.
When inverter sense big difference between the room temperature vs its pre-set desired temperature, it needs to run at 100%.
cherroy
post Jun 22 2015, 10:11 AM

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QUOTE(kimsim @ Jun 22 2015, 09:57 AM)
Ok ok.. Nowadays still available for non inverter model..
Wait one more day is totally phase out then you would realize the inverter more accurate and works lower power consumption at all
*
The one doesn't realise the mechanism within youself, despite pages and pages and numerous of time other explaining.

Another wrong statement.

It is gas R-22 phase out, not non-inverter.
Non-inverter can work work in R410a gas as well, if manufacturer decided to design the non-inverter to work with the gas, air-cond just need a refrigerant to work with.

It is not inverter must use R410a, or non-inverter must use R-22, only they can work.
Refrigerant function is to "transport" the heat from the indoor to outdoor only.

Inverter and non-inverter is just about how compressor works.
Inverter use DC to control the compressor rpm, while non-inverter using AC, which cannot control the rpm.

Non-inverter is not banned, it is R-22 will be banned in the future.

Inverter does save electricity and work at lower power consumption, but it depends on what is the condition of the room.

That's why no manufacturers give accurate number how much inverter can save (they can only advertise save as much as 30% or 50% with a * behind,
because the saving variable depended on the room condition itself, which vary from one and another.


cherroy
post Jun 22 2015, 10:28 AM

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QUOTE(kimsim @ Jun 22 2015, 10:16 AM)
Simple tell u from non inverter 2hp easily clock higher power consumption than 2.5hp inverter unit.

Don't ask me why
*
Because you don't understand the working mechanism.
That's why you cannot answer, and tell people "don't ask me why".

cherroy
post Jun 22 2015, 10:44 AM

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QUOTE(kimsim @ Jun 22 2015, 10:34 AM)
Be coz you force the unit run in lower temperatures, when gas not enought please top up lah

In good condition Aircon of inverter you won't set lower to 24C, just gas not enough and feel warm then just keep like non inverter set to 23C at all

Different brands may different cooling, don't tell me your unit are Pana inverter, is the worst to compare even Daikin GA made in Malaysia brand
*
I really give up now... laugh.gif


cherroy
post Jun 22 2015, 11:09 AM

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QUOTE(kimsim @ Jun 22 2015, 10:56 AM)
Simple life you still dunno Aircon need to check gas presure meh?

Don't told me your Aircons is free for serving also self cleaning dust.
*
Now, I only know inverter save a lot of power, then rest, throw into drain already, don't need to know, don't ask me why. laugh.gif

cherroy
post Jun 22 2015, 11:11 AM

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QUOTE(leonhart88 @ Jun 22 2015, 11:10 AM)
any hotel or hospital room use inverter ma? they can save more than us.
*
They don't care one, they only care to make profit. laugh.gif
cherroy
post Jun 24 2015, 05:39 PM

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QUOTE(calvincty @ Jun 24 2015, 04:28 PM)
regarding the refrigerant R410A, is that special requirement on the piping (if I'm not going to use inverter aircon)?

I've asked so many times to the management office & project office of my new condo, no one can give me clear answer whether the pipe installed is able to cope with R410A aircon.

I read over the internet it seems R410A will output higher pressure to the pipe so if the piping is not strong enough that will cause leaking issue?

struggling now whether to get a R410A aircon and hopefully someone here can help me on that.
*
Sadly to say, most condo still come with concealed R22 piping, as far as I encountered.
So high probability yours one may be for R22.

It is not some "special piping" but thicker.

If the piping is catered for R22, then advisable to install R22 air-cond, if not remove it, or install a new piping.

Get installer to inspect the piping if cannot confirm the piping type.

This post has been edited by cherroy: Jun 24 2015, 05:46 PM
cherroy
post Jun 24 2015, 06:11 PM

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QUOTE(calvincty @ Jun 24 2015, 05:54 PM)
Instead the installer ask me to ask management, more accurate. Then management ask me to ask installer.. very bagus....
*
You are lucky not to hire this kind of installer.
Experienced installer should able to identify it easily through visibly and measurement of the pipe.

Management office only doing admin work on building management, they generally do not know technical stuff one.
You are better off to ask the developer engineer instead of management office personnel.
cherroy
post Jun 25 2015, 10:49 AM

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QUOTE(calvincty @ Jun 25 2015, 10:14 AM)
Developer engineer office has reverted to me that it can use R410A, then neightbour said he bring "aircon expert" to see the piping cannot use R410A.

Memang headache.
*
Can use is one matter.
While the pipe is purposely cater for R410a spec is another matter.

You don't ask the engineer can use or not.
You ask what is the spec of the pipe.
cherroy
post Jun 25 2015, 04:20 PM

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QUOTE(river.sand @ Jun 25 2015, 03:28 PM)
Stock market boring, so master cherroy now talks a/c liao  laugh.gif
I talked to the technician of condo contractor. He told me that the pipes can be used for both inverter and non-inverter types. (I suppose what he meant was R410 and R22). However, max for 'new gas' is 2.5 hp, while max for 'old gas' is 2.0 hp.

If pressure for R410 is higher, isn't that we should use smaller hp a/c  rclxub.gif
*
Pipe are all the same, just thickness, and diameter only.

The concern of pipe is about ability to withstand the higher pressure of R410a which operates about 1.6x R22, especially at joint part, as mentioned by forumer.

Smaller HP motor how to pump higher pressure? laugh.gif

cherroy
post Jun 26 2015, 10:51 AM

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QUOTE(kimsim @ Jun 26 2015, 07:43 AM)
Actually m'sian user almost claim inverter not saving energy at much.

Due to what reason?
Set too low Temperatures because the unit after installed never check gas pressure and tells the customer original gas from MFGs should be enought within 3m long piping and unnecessary for topping gas at all.
The bonus from who installed may save some extra gas here.

The next step from the user may claim the unit of inverter never as cold as non inverter right.
Cause non inverter from the installed they will doing the right thing and top up gas or check pressure before they leave, why ?
Answer here : cheap who care the gas on R22.

Everything if not right then you guys should claim the issue to installation and do the right thing before they handle for you.

From inverter the main setting was temperature n follow by fan speed.

(Inverter unit may not set as low as on 23C from the energy is quite similar to non inverter unit, that is why claim the inverter never save up at all)
*
Inverter or non-inverter, the procedure of installation is the same.
Installer has the habit of install wrongly on inverter but not in non-inverter?
R22 too cheap until full too much for customer?

What a statement made... laugh.gif

I only know every installer will check the gas pressure after they filled in the gas.

If like that, everyone install inverter one may be need to "scare" installer not doing the right thing during installation.
So better to install non-inverter so that eliminate the chance of wrong installation.

Previously say non-inverter cannot on more than 3 hours,
now inverter cannot set below 23c....
laugh.gif

Little saving is actually quite simple, because the inverter need to run 100% most of time due to the room condition.
Not that cold may because of at the particular time inverter is running at partial load, hence the coolness output also partial.

This post has been edited by cherroy: Jun 26 2015, 10:52 AM
cherroy
post Jun 26 2015, 04:24 PM

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QUOTE(kimsim @ Jun 26 2015, 11:03 AM)
How you know and do you monitor them when doing installation?
If you know Aircon deffinelty they can't cheat you.

Inverter vs non inverter the different between is an outdoor PCB to control temperature and fan motor & compressor runs less lost enegy, unlike non inverter may keep need 100% kick in after starting from temp reached period.
But inverter may run in part load to supply minimum presure to keep indoor cold as pre-set.

From inverter & non inverter should run in 100% when start up on compressor with full speed, if not how to called inverter faster cooling than non inverter.

Type of compressor from non inverter still keep on AC motor vs inverter All DC may reduce energy too

Noise wise non inverter would runing stronger vibration, unlike inverter DC motor will be generate less vibration at all.
*
wow,
I am quite amaze with the adding on further legendary comment.

Non-inverter ----> stronger vibration. laugh.gif

All proper compressor should have little vibration across, no manufacturer produces a compressor with "strong vibration" one.

Vibration normally caused by improper installation, particularly at mounting part. A wear bearing, fan blade broken causing imbalance etc also a factor causing vibration.
Vibration definitely is not because it is a non-inverter. laugh.gif

cherroy
post Jun 26 2015, 06:24 PM

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QUOTE(kimsim @ Jun 26 2015, 05:41 PM)
Daikin non inverter 1hp input watt 833w vs ME inverter 640w only, over here has saving 193w easily why still going for non inverter?
*
A brand 1 HP may not the same with B brand 1 HP, although both being labelled as 1 HP.

Just like Toyota 1.6 vs Proton 1.6, both also 1.6, but they used different engine hence the output and fuel consumption is not the same to start with.

Just like A brand 1 HP BTU may be 9000, while B brand 1 HP may be 11,000.

Nobody is against inverter nor saying inverter doesn't save electricity, but to say non-inverter --> more vibration is overboard already.
I never came across any inverter manufacturers made such a claim before. laugh.gif



cherroy
post Jun 26 2015, 06:37 PM

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QUOTE(kimsim @ Jun 26 2015, 06:28 PM)
Ok ok you win

Talks can be varies, when use is totally different.

Nowadays Toyota Altis 1.6L mana boreh flight with proton saga 1.6L in common road
*
I don't want to win anything, just want to correct some statement and understanding which is not right to start with. smile.gif



cherroy
post Jun 26 2015, 06:54 PM

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QUOTE(kimsim @ Jun 26 2015, 06:43 PM)
Different point of view..

Inverter is still most advance than non inverter never do the right thing on comfort level.

Even not green environment too
*
Inverter is not "advance" technology, DC motor and feedback loop to control the DC motor rpm exist even before I was born, just how they deploy in the air-conditioning system only.

The "green" actual term should be less polluting, not really that "green".
The real "green" is not using air-cond, back to natural condition.

There are too many marketing gimmick on "green" and "organic" already.

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