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 Aircon Discussion V3, Home Appliance

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cherroy
post Dec 3 2015, 11:29 AM

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QUOTE(mujinkun @ Dec 3 2015, 11:23 AM)
Inverter on Non Inverter for Living room?

Please advise
*
It depends the usage.

If the living room is open space, and poor heat insulation, there won't be much difference between them.

But if the living room is small and more and less a closed space that cool air won't escape easily, inverter will save some electricity and provide a more stable coolness.



cherroy
post Dec 13 2015, 10:33 PM

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QUOTE(^Ware^wolf @ Dec 13 2015, 08:54 PM)
My sharp inverter condenser coil is dirty . Tried to pour water into condenser coil and a lot dirty water coming out . It's alright to pour water into condenser coil right ?
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It should be no issue, as long as not in touch with wiring side, as condenser coil is wet most of the time when operation.

But pouring water may not solve or help anything one, you need some pressured water or air blower to clean the dirt that attached to the coil.




cherroy
post Dec 14 2015, 09:29 AM

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QUOTE(keyser soze @ Dec 14 2015, 07:31 AM)
Evaporator coil only wet. Not condenser.
*
My mistake of mix up the term.


cherroy
post Dec 14 2015, 04:07 PM

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QUOTE(GUESS @ Dec 14 2015, 02:04 PM)
Salesperson avoid selling inverter models since they are sensitive to lighting which prone to damage electronics board. I am not sure how true is it.
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Inverter sensitive to lighting? means must be operated in dark? laugh.gif
Joking only.

Every electronic board also damage if there is lightning strike on it.

Inverter has an extra electronic board to control the DC motor as compared to non-inverter, that is.
So if when the board fail, then you will have a breakdown.

But to say avoid inverter due to it, is not making a lot of sense.

Unless the SA has experience a lot of similar breakdown on a particular model or batch of inverter, and advise according to it, then it is different story. But this is not about inverter vs non-inverter, but more be specific model or batch problem issue.

It is just like telling modern car has more electronic parts and more complex, hence buyer should avoid modern car as it prone to damage of electronic parts, so better buy a old carburetor engine car instead of electronic injection engine one.

cherroy
post Dec 15 2015, 10:55 PM

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QUOTE(agilen @ Dec 15 2015, 03:32 PM)
i did asked, my wire man (doing AC installation as well) said inverter not really cost saving, another (AC seller) said inverter PCB very expensive if broken. since i never use inverter model before very hard to justify. 

actually i wanted to get inverter model for rooms (use most) and non-inverter for living and dining.

then i should look for more option.
*
It depends how the air-cond is used.

If undersized aircond which typically in big living area or dining area (whereby you don't have good heat insulation, aka cool air always can escape elsewhere, the inverter saving won't be much.), and air-cond need to work nearly 100% most of the time, then inverter won't save too much one.

But for bedroom that is small, inverter able to work at partial load most of the time, then you will see the saving.

Yes, inverter PCB can be expensive, more than Rm600 per board for 2HP is last quotation made by the repairmen to my company.

My factory got use inverter and PLC board (for machine), they won't last forever, they have their own expectancy lifetime.
Same with our computer motherboard, some may spoil after sometimes.

Sometimes, if the compressor is placed in a more harsh condition, (raining sunshine, dusty etc) it may quicken the lifetime of an electronic board.

There is why we still have 2 type, if one type is way superior and more cost effective, the other will died down quickly one naturally by market force.
But it didn't happen, which mean both have it own market and advantage that people still look for.

cherroy
post Dec 18 2015, 04:10 PM

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QUOTE(jern25 @ Dec 18 2015, 03:40 PM)
hi all. i am now considering to install an aircond in my living room. this is the layout:

[attachmentid=5565258]

as per layout, i calculated the area is roughly around 204 sq.ft. so, im wondering, is 1HP is enough? i calculated the area need roughly 7,000 BTU. im not sure if it is correct or not. haha.

btw, where can i get good offering on discount with installation? im staying in Puchong btw.
*
2HP is recommend as the living hall and dining area has no partition, your cool air will escape away.

1HP is definitely not enough.
cherroy
post Jan 31 2016, 10:40 PM

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QUOTE(ivzh @ Jan 22 2016, 09:08 PM)
my new condo come with the standard piping for all room..
the room utilised most is living room and masterbed room.

having some dilemma here

-if using existing copper pipe, can i install a 1HP inverter for my masterbed room? high chance of gas leakage?

-my living room is open area with open kitchen concept. Require 2HP, inverter or non inverter? which one is more suitable ?

-will non-inverter phase out anytime soon? I know inverter is the new trend.. should i invest to change all my existing pipe? haha i worry if my AC break down in the future, and there is only inverter AC in market.. then i kena redo+conceal the new copper
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1. Not recommended.
2. Inverter won't save you much in such a condition.
3. Non-inverter will not phase out, but gas R22 will. But you don't worry something 5 to 10 years down the road issue. Technology is constant changing. In distance future there may be newer gas that more environmentally come out, so change all the piping again? biggrin.gif

If doing renovation now, then it is wise to choose the piping for R410A (so called "inverter" gas which in actual fact just a gas type, not related to inverter or non-inverter), but if the piping already pre-installed, then it depends on individual choice to redo now or later.
cherroy
post Feb 16 2016, 12:01 PM

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QUOTE(spreeeee @ Feb 15 2016, 05:29 PM)
single phase TNB, can install all the following:

3hp
1.5hp
1hp
1hp

total 4 airconds
*
You count total wattage used by the electrical appliance.

Typical most house with single phase is equiped with max consumption about 60A.

And you need to look for individual dedicated wire from the DB as well, typically a single line from DB, mostly use 18 or 20A rated wire whereby you can see CB rating of 20A to protect the overload.

Summarise,
no problem for single phase to install the 4 air-cond.
But you cannot loop it with single wire to supply the 4 air-cond.
You need at least 2 or 3 dedicated wire from DB to supply the current to the 4 air-cond.

cherroy
post May 4 2016, 12:49 PM

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QUOTE(dzs @ May 4 2016, 10:38 AM)
that means the inverter is more reliable than non inverter......
if running less than 8 hours....is it still use less power than non inverter.....
*

No such thing of only use more than 8 hours, then only inverter will save power.
Inverter will save power whenever condition permitted for its to run at partial load.

Just inverter cost is more expensive, hence if it is being used little only, then saving of electricity won't be exceeding the extra cost paying to the inverter, hence the myth of 8 hours being created.

Eg. you use 2 hours per day, potential average saving from inverter (which varied depended how it is used) let say
30%.

For 1 HP non-inverter - 0.75KW, 2 hours use 1.5KWH, so 30 days 45 KWH, if tariff is RM0.50/KWH then it consumes RM22.50 per month.

If change to inverter, you save 30%, aka around RM7, whole year, you save RM84, but inverter may cost more than RM300 as compared to non-inverter, hence there are people said, if use inverter for short hour, it doesn't save.

The risk of reliability part of inverter is on the inverter board (that convert AC to DC and control mechanism), which if spoilt can be quite costly.
cherroy
post May 4 2016, 01:08 PM

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QUOTE(Richard @ May 4 2016, 01:02 PM)
ok.. here's the thing with electrical/electronics reliability its heat that destroy the components(shortens its life)..

An inverter circuit cuts down your current draw meaning reduced heat losses, smaller cable..

Discrete electronic component are to control voltage/frequency/current and the 90% main failure is poor installation and low quality source material.. The other being poor design and where Made in China gets a bad name..

But seems like they improving due to to the copy/produce from brand name manufacturers.. which is a good thing as we all can buy German design Made in china goods.. lol
*
The major risk is potential harsh environment of the compressor like rain, heat as the circuit board is placed with the compressor side.
So placement of compressor can be a key factor as well as the quality of the board itself.

Inverter /= cut down current draw.
Inverter draws the same or full current when full blast time (which is identical to non-inverter), it is the ability to be under partial load afterwards, that cut down the current draw, which is the major different between inverter and non-inverter.

This post has been edited by cherroy: May 4 2016, 01:11 PM
cherroy
post May 4 2016, 01:55 PM

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QUOTE(Richard @ May 4 2016, 01:25 PM)
it's more the start/stop nature of the air con motor that differentiate an inverter unit cost savings to non-inverter..

An inverter only functions for starting a electrical motor with lower amps, lower torque and lower losses.. once on full load it has no relevance.. its out of the picture..

but for an aircon unit controlled via thermocouple (temperature sensor) an analogue device, that's where your inverter units gets back saving money matching power input to the load..

a conventional motor will stop/start .. there's no inbetween.. wasting heat during starts every single time..
*
I don't know how the newer inverter being designed nowadays, but inverter means AC to DC conversion.

Hence the inverter compressor is a DC motor , even with the full load, the inverter still need to function by converting the incoming supply of AC to DC, so that the motor can run.

We can't by pass the inverter (aka leave the inverter out of picture), and take in incoming AC current to run the motor.
cherroy
post May 4 2016, 05:41 PM

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QUOTE(TXSim @ May 4 2016, 04:42 PM)
Inverter is better.

During startup, non-inverter blow air on and off.

For inverter model. Continue to set temp.

Non-inverter air conditioner waste electricity during startup.
*
Inappropriate explanation. smile.gif

Non-inverter
Aircond start up, run 100%, blowing cold air non-stop until reach the pre-set temperature, then compressor off, until the temperature rise up again. Aka non-inverter work on the basis on and off the compressor which supply the coldness.

Inverter
Aircond start up, run 100%, temperature start to lower down, then it slow down the compressor motor as the "coldness" needed is reduced, the slowing down of motor through the inverter is the key saving feature.

On start up,
both will blow cold air at 100%, little difference between them (set aside the EER, higher BTU of inverter due to higher pressure use)

No such thing of "non-inverter waste electricity during start up", (if we set aside the BTU issue).
cherroy
post May 4 2016, 09:04 PM

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QUOTE(TXSim @ May 4 2016, 07:04 PM)
If you said I'm wrong.

Explain for supersound and I.

*
I don't see how my explanation is differ from your chart showed.

During start up aka when you turn on the air-cond time, both inverter and non-inverter will consume 100% of power to cool off the room, hence that's where I said no such thing of "waste electricity during start up.
Start up - when you turn on the air-cond time.

When temperature start to approaching to pre-set room temperature, then that's where the inverter start to vary its load, which is the major different compared to non-inverter.


cherroy
post May 4 2016, 09:10 PM

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QUOTE(swgiant @ May 4 2016, 07:57 PM)
why inverter aircond failure rate is higher than inverter refrigerator, especially inverter aircond's pcb ?
*
Air-cond may be more prompt to failure as compared to refrigerator, because air-cond work "harder" than refrigerator.

We seldom "hear" refrigerator running unless it is being opened time or only "hear" it to run for a long interval period.
While air-cond need to constant cool your room non-stop.
Most of the time, refrigerator is idle state, due to insulation of heat from outside.
Less work, less prompt to failure.

Somemore, refrigerator is positioning in the kitchen, while air-cond compressor generally is placed at outside that subjected to sun light heat, rain and a more harsh condition as compared.

This post has been edited by cherroy: May 4 2016, 09:13 PM
cherroy
post May 7 2016, 11:36 AM

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Please reminded that this is an air-cond related topic.

1. Please do not name calling or talk about specific forumer issue, even if the forumer may post different opinion, or wrong info. Just a counter post to correct the wrong info or any ill advice given will do and sufficient

2. Please do not abuse report button.
If cannot engage proper discussion on having different opinion on the issue, please stay away the heated debate.

3. Please do not use any foul word in the discussion, that may include calling other retard or whatever, which is deemed name calling already.

Further doing the same and ruin the topic (including abuse of report button), warning/suspension may be given by the moderating team.

Thank you.

cherroy
post May 9 2016, 05:10 PM

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QUOTE(kuai_chai @ May 9 2016, 01:50 PM)
Hi,
Inverter technology is it same as what they promoted 'Eco' mode?
If i buy an inverter but not using Eco mode, is it equivalent to non-inverter AC?
how different is the Eco mode in term of energy saving compared with non-Eco mode?
btw, switching on and off Eco mode will it shorten the lifespan of AC?
*
Those so called "eco mode" (which may vary from brand to brand), is extra feature incorporated, eg, sensor can sense little activity in the room, hence the "eco mode" power down the cooling effect to minimal of the inverter, which in return save your electricity bill.

Not using eco mode /= non-inverter

Inverter still functioning as normal even with eco mode switch off.

Inverter is similar non-inverter when you full blast the air-cond, where your room temperature fail to drop to desired due to open air space etc, whereby the inverter needs to run 100% all the time or no partial load achieved.

cherroy
post May 14 2016, 10:19 PM

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QUOTE(GamersFamilia @ May 14 2016, 11:50 AM)
meanwhile inverter must use inverter piping only , right ?
*
Nowadays, there are non-inverter using R410 as well already.
So the piping cannot be called "inverter piping".

It is about the thickness of the piping that cater fro R410 operating pressure which is higher than old R-22 which is commonly used in non-inverter previously.
cherroy
post May 16 2016, 10:43 PM

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QUOTE(Yishin @ May 16 2016, 09:25 PM)
I have heard some of my friends said their inverter give more saving while others say no. I think this all depend at what condition the aircon is operating most of the time.

On theory, inverter should save you electric bill under certain operating conditions.  The worst should be same as non-inverter. At least the comfort will be better off with inverter type as the hysteresis of the compressor switch on and off will create a big change in temperature (maybe 2 degree) which sometimes wake me up during the night, especially when the temperature is set at higher side. 

I still don't have inverter yet, but I will give it a try when I want to buy a new aircon next time. See if it really as claimed. Whether inverter or non-inverter,  the most important thing is you must have close to airtight room to save electric,  otherwise whatever you use it will be the same, waste energy, waste money.
*
Worst case scenario/condition of the room, inverter consumption similar to non-inverter.

Setting too low temperature, room open space etc, whereby it is difficult for inverter to achieve desired temperature will result in full blast of inverter. A full blast inverter, its electricity consumption is similar to non-inverter.

This is when (inverter consumption similar or not significant less compared to non-inverter), non-inverter has an advantage over inverter, whereby you paid lesser for non-inverter.

That's where people said, inverter is not "worthwhile" in certain condition or being used less time, as the saving won't able to recoup the extra cost paid to non-inverter.

cherroy
post Feb 19 2019, 10:46 AM

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QUOTE(thor74 @ Feb 15 2019, 08:54 PM)
Has anyone  checked his aircond unit’s temperature setting versus room temperature?

Why is it, when I set remote control with 25 deg, my room temperature is 21 degree?
Isn’t it overcooling, not energy saving and not environmentally friendly (if you convert each kw wasted with coal burning, CO2 emission by TNB).

*
You need to understand how air-cond works in the first place.

Air-cond cut in or cut out (non-inverter) or reduce rpm in inverter based on temperature input, and the input comes from the sensor/thermostat that generally located at the blower air-intake route or just before the cooling coil/after the filter.
If the sensor fail to sense below 25 deg, (when the remote is set at 25), then the air-cond will continue to blow cool air, until the sensor read 25c from the air.

So the room size, blower positioning, clogged filter and various factors that affecting the sensor reading will result in the air-cond may not cut out.
Air-cond rely on the cut it/cut out (or lower rpm for inverter) mechanism for the room temperature control.

It is not the like you set 25c, then the blower will exactly blow out 25c cool air.
The setting of 25c means the intention to cool the room air surrounding to reach 25c, while if you measure the temperature of the air just in front of the blower, it may read way below 25c.


cherroy
post Feb 19 2019, 11:04 AM

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QUOTE(DuitNow @ Feb 19 2019, 10:54 AM)
Can the sensor ever be faulty or malfunction?
*
Sensor faulty, PCB control board faulty also may result the compressor running non-stop.

But mostly incorrect cut in/out is more about surrounding air situation, positioning, clogged filter etc.

Eg.
Air-cond is positioning way above our head, you feel 21c sitting below it, but at air-cond intake (that sensor located) that few feet above you, the air temp may be 25c, especially if the wall is hot or roof is hot.

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