Greetings people !

Well , as you can see , i am trying to figure it out on how to sustain a Law Firm ?

In two years time , my wife's dad will be handing over his medium size Law firm to my wife.

The thing is , my wife is just an ordinary lawyer without any business orientate. So it leaves to me to handle the business. With my 6 years experience of Sales and marketing , can i succeed this ? I am in hospitality industry right now and basically its almost the same thing which is we sells services to customers.

I asked her on how did you father managed to find his clients ? She said the dad just waited for the clients to come by at the office and deal.. Her dad is doing so-so right now. Average 1-2 cases a month sometimes none.

Anyway , i am still blur on how to boost the sales figure for the business. We have enough staffs to work but no enough clients/case to deal.

Her parents are putting a big hope to me to handle the business since we are the first born child for both families and my wife has 4 younger siblings to take care of later.

The main question now is can i apply the same method on S/M for a Law firm ?

What strategy should i use ?

This post has been edited by CommonPeople: Feb 12 2015, 05:02 PM

1) is there are specialty for the law firm e.g. criminal, housing loan etc etc etc
2) try to get a partner who is more famous to help bring in more clients
3) copy "better call saul"

1) Make contacts with Housing Developers to handle the SPA work, etc

2) Make contacts with Banks to handle the Loan Agreement, etc

But wait, do you have Bumi Partner cos its requirement to be Panel on Bank

If the law firm do SPA and loan legal documents:
1) Get as much banker contact as u can
2) Become panel for bank
3) Ties up with developer for project
4) Provide competitive pricing and service so your customer will become returning customer

my2c

Hi bro ,

Current focused are conveyancing and frauds. My wife's plan is to focus on accidents and islamic banking.

As for me , i am planning to aim more on Animal Rights and Consumer Rights.

Are they the right cause bro ?

For second point , i have been thinking of that but does terms 'Partners' same as 'BOD's' ?

Animal Rights - What are you talking about bro. Must be practical. You wanna help Animal Lovers to sue ppl? MY and out Govt in general are not animal friendly

Consumer Rights - Tak Boleh Cari Makan. Already got Consumer Claims Tribunal. Won't work bro

Accident - Be Ambulance Chaser - also won't work in MY

Islamic Banking - May work but its confined to Big Firms like Wong & Partners, Allen & Gledhill , etc - you will not be able to compete plus do you have BUMI partner with the connections

Thanks for the tips bro.

Can i alliance myself with the government ? Like , be a panel for PDRM ? i have a lot of contacts for PDRM and KDN..

Newbie in business here. Sorry yea

what do you mean by panel for PDRM

You mean to handle potential cases of ppl suing the Insurance Company for more compensation

This is possible - but involves some element of corruption cos you need the Inspector / Sargent to recommend your firm

You need to pay the Sargent immediately buy you only get paid after you win the case

Could take month / years

Thanks for the replies bro.

As for Animal rights , i am looking for free publicity actually. You know.. Lots of animal lovers out there , jadi hero for them and become famous. Even it wont make much profit but at least the name of firm will be recognized. Just my plan thou..

We are bumis .. does that make any difference bro ? bumis or non ?

Also , since you just potong all my ideas..Any recommendation ?

deleted

This post has been edited by aromachong: Nov 1 2016, 05:15 PM

Corruptions..i hate that shit. Is there any legal way approach them ?

Hey bro, don't get me wrong. Am not potong your ideas

If I did not care, I won't bother to reply

To be on panel for Bank, some Banks requirement is to have 30% Bumi Partner - in compliance with NEP

If you're a Bumi Firm - it certainly helps

Its good if you have a Game Plan - Do CSR in form of Animal Rights to get contacts, etc

With Consume Claims Tribunal - don't need Lawyers to sue Retailers, etc

Not many people can afford Lawyers and besides, in a Civil suit, enforceability is always an issue. You can ask your wife, how to collect a Debt of RM10K when Bankruptcy is at RM30K

Your idea on Islamic Banking is good, but like I said, currently dominated by Bigger Law Firms

You can organise free seminars and invite Bankers to attend to generate publicity


Unless you sit there all day long. Not really corruption - just call it incentive. Many Lawyers are already doing that now.

How much do you need to share the RM200K with other parties such as ****, *****, etc

Censored to avoid me being charged with sedition

This post has been edited by cfa28: Feb 12 2015, 05:52 PM

Start a website, you don't need animals for publicity. If you need an area of focus. HR and company law is best. Lots of employers suing employees, and lots of disgruntled employees suing employers. Lots of employers who default on salaries, or fire unethically.

but its cheaper for employees to just to to the file a case in Ministry of Labour / Industrial Court

Don't really need a Lawyer right?

Depends on the amount and who's employing you. Also A lawyer can represent you at Industrial Court. Most people I know get Lawyers to represent them.. it's only at the mediation meeting you have to go yourself. Companies always get lawyers to act on their behalf in case of foot in mouth disease.

Much appreciated with the replies guys. Seriously you guys put faith in humanity.. You know la people now days dont really bother to help others.. Anyway i got to go right now since my works ends at 6pm. Will continue this interesting conversation tomorrow Around 10am-11am. Heck , who knows we can meet up and i belanja Makan in return teach me more about this ? hehe.. anyway thanks again.

What is Islamic banking? What are lawyers suppose to do?

It all boiled down to your connections. Word of mouth/networking etc.

Getting listed as the banks legal panel could be another option.

Islamic banking is about structuring a banking product so that it complied with Shariah principles.

Lawyers will need to structure the product, in addition to drafting of legal documents.

It's not as simple as it looks when you have to zoom in on specific terms, etc.

Get to know property agent.subsales is bigger pie compare primary market. Every subsale buyer will ask agent recommendation lawyer. One of them is me during. Even the vendor also use the same lawyer.

Hi sis ,

Agreed with your recommendation to target for labor laws but i think , just my personal opinion thou , that might only works if its in a dense area like klang valleys or etc.. the firm is in a medium size town something like batu pahat , taiping or Kuantan.. Correct me if im wrong..

Agreed with all the point you given.

Islamic banking dominated by bigger firms ? what if its in small-medium size town.. Will it be dominated by them too ?

I wanted to suggest my wife to do criminal since almost everyone said criminal its the most making money cases but im afraid of the post settlement.. you know la criminals relate to gangsters and all.. Plus , to me , a woman lawyer fighting for criminal cases doesnt seems so right... not being racist thou

A medium law firm, I'm sure your father-in-law has established a good client base and that includes panelship for most of the banks around. For a start, conveyancing and banking transactions are one of those easier ones u can get in. I presume your wife has experience in insurance litigation, it's possible to get some Plaintiff files. If you already have plenty of experience, can try getting into insurance companies' panel for defendant matters. Fees wise, more on volume.

For islamic banking, it really doesn't matter what kinda firm you are in. The concept is the same but maybe the name and structure wise has slight difference. Basically if your law firm has panelship for conventional bank, you are good for islamic bank. Just that maybe bigger loan amount requires higher tier law firms, what we call panel A.

Even if you don't have panelship for banks, fret not, you can apply for adhoc panelship. Requirements are pretty basic, minimum of 2 partners with 1million professional insurance coverage.

I'm not sure those who replied have experience in running or are they practising in a law firm. Some information given is not entirely accurate.

This post has been edited by chastise: Feb 13 2015, 04:06 PM

Now, when I say Islamic Banking, I am referring to more than just being the panel lawyer for the Islamic Housing Loans.

That one almost any Lawyer firm can do.

When I am talking about Islamic Banking, I am referring to Lawyers who are capable of coming out with new structures for Financing Products and in order to do this, you need resources like how places like Dubai, UAE, London, what sort of Islamic Products are being offered there.

Smaller firms will have not have resources.

Why not? Islamic banking is just syariah compliant banking products. What kinda resources are you referring to? Just need to understand how the structure works. Most are similar to conventional banking just different terms are used.

As long as your client wants you to do the deal, be it Islamic or conventional; you are in their higher tier panel (depending on the amount); and you have experience in Islamic banking (even if you don't as long as you have banking and finance experience, you can read it up. That's how lawyers learn anyway), it really doesn't matter.

If you don't mind me asking, are u a practising lawyer?

This post has been edited by chastise: Feb 14 2015, 01:25 PM

When a lawyer says that he / she specializes in tax, do you expect the lawyer to do just normal CKHT submission or do you expect the lawyer to be able to advice on how to structure the transaction to minimize the tax exposure. If the lawyer cannot do the later, he / she should not claim to be a tax lawyer.

The same goes for Islamic Banking, what does the lay man or general public expect this lawyer to do if the lawyer claims to specialise in Islamic Banking?

is is just normal Islamic Loans, conveyancing work, etc. If this is the case, it's just any normal lawyer can do. if someone wants to claim to be a specialist, one must be know more than other normal non specialist.

Anyway, I have given my views and I am not a Lawyer although my firms uses many Lawyers. I have met a number of Lawyers who claim to be specialist in

a) Tax
b) Insurance
c) Fund Raising
d) Conventional Banking
e) Fraud and due diligence

But not many Lawyers claim to specialise in Islamic Banking.

You don't have to agree with my interpretation of what a specialist is but please do ensure you have the necessary skills to call yourself "specialising in...." whatever field.


This post has been edited by cfa28: Feb 14 2015, 03:12 PM

Then probably you have not met with any yet. Every lawyer's path is different. You can't be generalising a lawyer working in a small firm has no experience in Islamic banking. What if that particular lawyer who opened his law firm has previously worked in pure banking and finance line?

Eg. Myself has been trained years in banking and finance (that includes Islamic banking, no not those housing loans type). Then moved into one of the big S firm non-lit dept doing transactions ranging from Islamic banking, corporate banking and finance, corporate advisory to simple conveyancing job. Now that I have my own practice, I do take up some civil and criminal lit matters in addition to my usual bread and butter. It's a matter of learning new stuffs.

Perhaps you really have to be in the industry to understand how to run a law firm.

This post has been edited by chastise: Feb 14 2015, 11:12 PM

Good that there is another experience lawyer in lowyat that I can summon next time.

Your expertise exceeds the normal conveyancing work.

Some of the experience was gained while working for bigger law firms.

No doubt you have your own practice but still the experience, knowledge and contact was gained from past bigger firms right?

TS wife father law firm appears to be the smaller standard conveyancing type.

Perhaps you can guide him where his wife can get the knowledge to specialise in areas such as Islamic Banking, etc.

This post has been edited by cfa28: Feb 15 2015, 12:42 AM

Experience yes but contacts, no. Knowledge, depending on individuals.

TS mentioned his FIL owns a medium sized law firm. That's about 10 LAs at least? Maybe I've missed it, but TS did not specifically mention which area the firm does.

Anyway legal works are not that hard to understand. Once you learn the concept everything else can be applied and re-apply to suit the transaction. In fact, I learned the most of my knowledge in corporate and islamic banking during my first few years in a medium sized firm.

Don't be surprised if a civil litigation lawyer can suddenly become an aviation lawyer in a week. What we do is read, understand, re-apply.

Well, i am no expert, but i think the fundamentals of S/M in any type of biz is merely the same. But the thing is, in a hospitality industry, ask yourself, what are your clients or customes seeking for? And what service are you giving them. So, it's the same in handling a law firm. Know what you are servicing, what are people searching in a law firm and write out a marketing strategy and plan.

The basics are the same... maybe the purpose is different. I believe you can do it bro!

p/s - Always start your tagline as "My expertise is to help people in...." Maybe 'to help you extend your mortgage...' or whatever...

deleted

This post has been edited by aromachong: Nov 1 2016, 05:14 PM

Was re-reading TS info on his FIL Law Firm again

TS, perhaps you can list out:

a) what sort of clients does your FIL do at the moment
b) How many qualified LA does his firm have
c) How many "legal clerks" does his firm have
d) Where exactly is his firm located

Since chastise is also a practising Lawyer, perhaps he/she can give you more insights

Is your firm doing conveycing or litigation or both? If conveycing, go and tie up with bankers and agents. I'm not going to tell you what to offer to them, at your firm's own discretion.

The next best thing is to panel with developers to be their SPA solicitors and hopefully loan documentations as well.

You have to really go out and maintain relationship with your prospects. Sit and wait for loan to come no longer works in today's market.

As of all, you need to ensure your wife is familiar in which field.

Secondly, you may consider your wife's dad field too. As you may consider to expand the business based on their expertise.

If you choose to start something which they are not familiar with, you need to standby at least 3years +- for them to catch up. So, why not just go into the field they familiar with? As lawyer is a professional field, not simply as just on marketing, get client then run it. Tons of liability might appear even after you close the case. Just as conveyancing, anything might appears, even after the case is closed such as fraud cases, fake title and etc...

I personally started my own partnership firm last year but fully focus on conveyancing. So could only able to share with you conveyancing related matters. Not proper for me to comment on others. Again, yes, you can treat legal firm and run it as a business but, plz take note on the liability accrued.

P/S: Looks like alot of experienced lawyer here! I am here stand to be corrected if any mistake/error on the info provided.

This post has been edited by Tavia88: Feb 18 2015, 09:54 AM

Hi there ,

Thank you for the replies.

Thats the thing , i am not too sure how is my father-in-law running his business , well i do know a lil bit about the office and all but not too detailed of it. Even my wife does not know that much either. This is the reason why i am so nervous about it.. Anyhow thanks for the tips and explanations.. There is a lot of new things i ve to learn..hank

Thanks again

Don't be surprised if a civil litigation lawyer can suddenly become an aviation lawyer in a week. What we do is read, understand, re-apply.

Agreed with that .. Back in uni life , used to helped my wife for exams..

Hi there !

Answers for :

A . I dont know that .. even my wife.. my FIL is a silent type of person.. we dont talk that much about the firm but all do we know that soon we ll take over his business..

B. This i know , Only 3 lawyers for now..

C. I asked this question before from my wife.. Total of 25 staffs in the office but not too sure how many LC thou..

D. Perak. 3 firms actually , ipoh , taiping and kuala kangsar

This post has been edited by CommonPeople: Feb 18 2015, 11:09 AM

Okay, you mean your FIL has 3-offices, one each in ipoh , taiping and kuala kangsar

So, when you mean 3 qualified Lawyers, this is for each office or combined offices.

Same goes for staff

How long as the qualified Lawyers been employed

Any risk that they don't like the new boss - your wife and leave with some clients and clerks?

Hi there ,

Thanks a lot for the explanation and tips given .

Great to hear you have started your own partnership firm , i hope i can do well too in the future.. If you dont mind im asking , any future focuses besides conveyancing ? thanks again for the clarification yea..

Good Morning bro , tak balik kampung or holiday ke ? hehhe

Anyway , Yea 3 offices but maybe , the ones in kuala kangsar will be closed soon due to internal probs.

About the lawyers , if im not mistaken , taiping 3 , ipoh 2 , KK 2..


Duration of employment.. i am not too sure about that.

Risk of loosing the staffs are quite high thou since they all are old people and maybe waayyyy too comfort with the current style of work.. i am considering to buang half of them in order to increase the productivity ..

Tak balik kampung cos orang KL

You must know that it is very HARD to actually sack someone in MY - especially since you are dealing with people who are conversant with Law.

You plus your wife really need to sit down with your FIL

Running any biz today is not the same as 20-years ago. Landscape, competition is very different.

You're from the F&B Line right, perhaps your wife can offer Legal Services to them such as

- Tenancy Agreement - with Landlord
- Contract Agreements - with suppliers
- HR Contracts - with staff

Kan .. i really have to sit down with him and have a intense talk. Before this , i thought managing an office would be easy and simple.. hahaha.

I am not from F&B line.. S/M for corporate hotel offices..

sorry, quite close lah

Use your contacts to get the Hotel contracts Legal Work

hahahah. Boleh ke bro approach just like that ? actually the whole topic was about this.. i am trying to know whether
can i approach clients with emails , portfolios , visits etc like what we always do in S/m..

Cause i asked my wife and she said law firm doesn't work that way.. lol.. idk..

This post has been edited by CommonPeople: Feb 18 2015, 11:54 AM

Not e-mails but visits with pitches and portfolios - YES

Big Legal Firms do that for Big Clients / Existing Clients - Talk about Firm Background, expertise, past portfolio etc

But not to sound too desperate lah

Pitch to Group Legal of the respective Firms,and also marketing departments like say Corporate Banking, Investment Banking, etc

Good way to create awarness is to offer "Free Legal Seminars" for prospective clients

Say - "Dispute and Arbitration process for Human Resources Department"

"Tenancy vs Lease - Pros and Cons" for Property Department / Legal Dept of the Hotel

Big Law Firms also do very Nice CV for their Partners / Lawyers

http://www.zicolaw.com/profile/david-lee-kim-meng/

http://www.lh-ag.com/s-saravana-kumar/

http://www.logan.com.my/html/people.html



This post has been edited by cfa28: Feb 18 2015, 12:13 PM

Oh yaaa? What is there to defeat ?

TS, you can start building your contacts by approaching friends and family. Make known to them that you are running a law firm. Then it will spread from there.

Don't worry if you aren't specialising in certain field. As long as you have interest in doing it, you can start somewhere and slowly learn more about it.

Being a lawyer is not about winning or losing (those who think that way prolly watched too much movies).

This post has been edited by chastise: Feb 18 2015, 03:57 PM

deleted

This post has been edited by aromachong: Nov 1 2016, 05:17 PM

are u one?

What does your wife do now?? Is she a practicing lawyer with another firm? If she is practicing, she should hop over to your fil's firm for the next few years, so she gets to know his clients etc. You're a long way from hiring and firing my friend. You will have to give those old staff compensation etc. You can't hypothetically deduce how to run a business you're not involved in.

This post has been edited by sarahdee: Feb 24 2015, 12:01 PM

Thanks again for the info bro..You really helped me a lot. I guess i need to read and study more about the whole thing..Cant simply tembak...Anyway , appreciated your help bro

Hi ,

Shes working in a corporate firm in the center of KL..

Hmm about firing them , i really really have to do something about that because they are old , slow and outdated. You know like an old computer ? haha . I just need a good fresh start for the company to have her glorious time once more..

Those that i did not replied your replies , thanks a lot for taking your time and efforts to read my silly topic. I really really appreciated with all the replies and hope i can learn something from that. Faith in Humanity Restored

TS, you really should have an intense talk with your wife and FIL. Running three firms at the same time is not easy if without expertise in management includes human management, accounts and admin.

If there are only three lawyers and three branches, I believe each branch will have a lawyer stationed there, am I right? If so, you need to know each branch's clients' portfolios.

First thing you need to make clear is what is your role in the firm. Who is going to take care admin, accounts and management? Do other partners of the firm agree with the arrangement or the lawyers in the firm are mere legal assistant?
Please take note that a law firm cannot use a "marketing officer".

With your background as S/M will definitely of help to your beloved wife. You may want to learn a little bit of law also. Suggest you to attend some seminars organised by the Perak Bar in relations to the field that you want. Further, enroll yourself to work in the firms to know more how a firm works. Without hands-on experience, it's very difficult for you to stand.

In conclusion:-
Identify your role in the firm and enroll yourself in seminars.

Dear Bro ,

Thanks for the information and advice. as for my role in the firms , my wife told me that i need to manage the managements site which are as you mentioned above. I do have a diploma in business management and hopefully the studies that ive learnt 10 years ago could be applied later .

Seminars ? it is a good idea thou. I have a thought of that actually.. Will try to take a look about that. I myself had bought some law books and had been searching around the net on how to manage/work a firm. No doubt its not as easy as it looks . Once again i would like to thank you for giving me such opinions.

As you have made clear in your position, will be easier to guide you.

You should read more books on practical side rather than substantive law (this applies for seminar too). For eg books like conveyancing practice rather than land law (I believe your wife would be a better guide than this forum as we can only give you some pointers). At the same time, pick up a conveyancing file from the firm and start from scratch to know the process (again, only your wife can be a better guide). Position yourself as a legal clerk first, learn the basic trades first. Then only start to market yourself and the firm. It's a service industry, people will return if your service if good. Even if you have connection or big big cable, you will still lose clients if your service is not up to their satisfaction.

As for management, same skills that you had learned from previous companies are applicable (eg office politics and control of wastage). In a law firm, more importantly is the file management and not office management (not to say the latter is not important, just that emphasis should place more on the former).

so, how is business bro?