I get what you mean, but I got 1 question, how do I deal with those who scold me when I guide/suggest/teach them what to do?

Remember that its not your place to guide/suggest/teach to start with?

There's nothing you can do about it, just play better.

If you don't mind being criticized, post 1 replay of a game that you felt unfair because victory were taken away from you by your teammates.

Why is it not? Assuming that you're playing a team game, wouldn't it be helpful to tell your teammates their blindspots so that as a team you can improve?

When I play with higher skilled players, I always listen to their advice if they back it up with good reasoning.

1. You're in the same match, i.e. similar MMR. You're just as bad as each other. The sooner you accept this, the better off you'll be.
2. You may be open to advice, but they may not. Most people don't like being given advice. Focus on your own improvement, not theirs.

+1 to this. I keep seeing people keep suggesting things and think their advice is the best. When others disagree, start blaming and demoralize the whole team.

1 is only partially valid IMO. It could be the fact that someone who was calibrated with low solo MMR decided to play a whole bunch of ranked team games with higher skilled players and learned alot from them. Or it could also be that you have more technical knowledge of the game but you're terrible at making plays)

While I agree with 2, I don't see this means that we shouldn't be helping one another improve our game since it's a team game?

I mean here's a sample scenario:

You're playing a game against an Ogre Magi, Vengeful Spirit and a farmed tinker. The carry of your team, a terrorblade, decides to skip his BKB to farm a straight skadi. Let's say he has only bought an orb of venom and has 3k in his inventory, would it really be wrong to tell him that he should get a BKB first on the basis of the enemy having so many magic disables and a tinker with a huge nuke.

Is it really wrong to tell him to get a BKB on the basis of how the enemy team has so much magical nukes and that he wouldn't be able to pull of his sunder?

I'd concede that I wouldn't give advice in a non-ranked game because of the nature of how Malaysian culture is a culture that isn't to open criticism to begin with so it's probably not worth the effort. But wouldn't it be helpful to promote a culture of being open within the local dota community?

Technical knowledge means jack squat if you don't have the mechanical skills to back it up. I'm a perfect example of this - over 10 years of playing DotA, 8 of which were a mix of competing and coaching. The end result - an MMR of 4k. My ex-WCG mates have roughly the same rating as well. Your MMR is a measure of consistency, nothing more.

This is a forum, so you're free to share etc. People come here to ask questions, hence they're generally more open to receiving comments/advice/criticism. In-game however, I find this to be quite the opposite. People hate being told what to do, even if it's nothing more than a mild suggestion. If you need proof of this in action, try play 10 games where you just mute everyone else the second the game starts. Understand that you may have good intentions, but the individual response to it varies. It goes without saying that the majority of the player base in this region behaves like an autistic teenager with rage issues.

exactly my point(MMR is only a measure of consistency, not knowledge). You might have the knowledge equivalent to a competitive tier player but you might be in low mmr because of your consistency. Which means that you DO know better than your teammates in your games.

It's like how people always say that Puppey has the brains but he's not a really clutch player.



but you're right, people in forums come to seek advice while in game, at the heat of the moment perhaps, people just don't listen.

However, after listening to Aui's vlog on pub mentality, I realized that by actually being extremely friendly with "advice", it tends to help the team alot as a whole. I see this in players like EE and Dendi when they stream occasionally, they tend to only say things which they see to be helpful to the team and say it in a very not-condescending manner.

Here's my rant.....

“Think for yourself and let others enjoy the privilege of doing so too.”
― Voltaire

My pub teammates owe me nothing, likewise i owe them nothing. They have no right to tell me how to play my game. Listening to random teammates is the worst thing you can do if you want to improve. 99.9% of them are wrong, their advice doesn't make any sense. They overestimate their understanding of the game. They don't respect their opponent intelligence. They think they're the only one who's capable of making logical decision.

When i watch tournament broadcast, those commentators annoy me. Why?, because they don't have a f***ing clue about the game. Most of the time, their game analysis are plain wrong. Random advice from pub teammates? Please..... don't...... even......

This post has been edited by Kaizer96: Dec 13 2014, 07:50 PM

I think if Voltaire played Dota, he would've disagreed with you haha.


I think something important here to understand that not all advice are equal in meaning. Of course if your teammate tells you to do something unreasonable, you're obliged not to listen to it. Just like how you're not obliged to listen to ALL of your parents advise right?

I'm not saying that we should always take advice, but at least be open and throw away that tempting attitude to think that we are pro-er than all our teammates and that we know more than they do in all aspects of the game.


Here's one of Aui_2000's videos where he analyzes random pub high ranked games and gives his comments on it; note what he says about how we need to help each other as a team :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlESqh35wdA

also, his VLOG on pub mentality

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_nNSkIzl-o

Of course i try to communicate and relay information to my teammates during the game. I won't force it if they don't want to listen, because i expect the same treatment from them. Sometimes what might seems common sense to you seems absurd to others. That what i meant when i said we need to tolerate each other.

I remember one game where i play mid, this one support can't stop b****ing about me. It happened when he rotated to mid, he then pinged me to kill opponent mid. I ignored him, and because of that he flamed and mocked me throughout the game. Well i can understand him, because at first glance it might seem like a free kill. He was probably so frustrated, he can't understand why this mid player ignored such an obvious free kill.

It was a free kill btw, anyone in his position would get frustrated too. But here's my reasoning for ignoring him; i see both support missing from our opponent safelane. I decided to respect our opponent and not gamble on the kill. We could have gone and killed that mid and escaped without a scratch, but that's not my style. Never ever disrespect your opponent. In that situation right or wrong is just a matter of perspective. People tend to judge who's right or wrong based on result. Our difference in mmr? almost 1000.

Think again, would people listen and watch that video if its not Aui_2000, but some random dota player on the internet? Probably not. I've seen Meracle, Yamateh and Jed getting flamed by their entire teammates in pub. Did you know that Jed a 7k player gets verbally abused by his pub teammates on frequent basis? Why? because everybody think they're entitled to express their opinion, and anyone who disagrees will be branded as someone who can't be criticized. When 4 players who're clearly on the wrong side disagree with you, not even your 10k mmr will save you from the flame/abuse.

haha I'm advocating for a system where we ought to give and accept criticism constructively. And truth is objective even in dota, someone is right and someone is wrong. It's not always clear cut (like in your case since that decision making was based on your opponents movements), but there are many things that are quite clear cut i.e. best item choices for the current game, whether you should afk farm after you've 5 man wipe with them having no buyback and stuff like that.

And of course, constructive criticism isn't flaming and whining about someone: Aui's argument is quite solid here IMO, he's saying that since you're all in the same mmr, the pinoy guy you're flaming as a noob might have better mechanical skill than you since you might have the advantage of teamwork. Everyone has different strengths that help them reach the mmr that they are at hence flaming isn't helpful at all.


What you say is true too, the fact is that everyone is behind a screen in Dota and decides that they are the best player in the world, and this means random flaming and egoistic criticism than doesn't tend to be the most reasonable and helpful. But if the community treats dota more like a game of 5v5 basketball, things would be much better since there'll be less ego involved and more objective reasoning.

just my 0.02

These problems aren't limited to online games. Ever play football/basketball with that one friend who thinks he's better than he actually is?

Oh my god man... the mid thingy is very similar to my yesterday's game. That guy flame me throughout and I didn't even give a damn about that. Anyway, I'm starting to do that what you guys have suggested/guided/taught me. I'm still figuring out how to climb MMR. Won 6 matches and lost 5 matches yesterday, almost no difference.

It's recommended to take a break between games to stretch and relax your eyes. Also, it's never a good idea to play directly after a loss.

+25 mmr.

Theoretically if you can produce the same result every day, you'll gain 750 mmr in one month.

Lol ppl in this game really hate one each other..good ppl salute when feed ppl will scold u like hell..rport this report that LOL

Mine opposite. Play 9 win 4.

By the way, check this shit out:
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1090550198

Played against my own friend (TA). He played mid and beat the Ember flat in the early game. Eventually we lose because AM gets out of control. Now here comes the best part - he PMs me saying "Such is life." What nice friends I have.

try to play different role, especial >>SUPPORT << ,rumor 10 people only 8 people as support in current mmr, 2k-4k