To be fair to TS, I do see quite a lot of forummers hammering him.

Unit Trust as in most investment , one need to be well informed and be able to research well. Contrary to popular opinion eschewed by UT salemans, you need knowledge in investment strategy. Thats why quite a number of investors failed.

Now comes the million dollar question, if everyone is well versed in investing, then why not go for stocks itself, since they are well versed in research plus having good strategy. Most will answer that it is asset diversification strategy or something like it.

What needs to be addressed is since UT is popularly sold to layman without investment knowledge (plus icing the possible returns), some sort of independant grading should be done to access the investment houses funds that failed the masses. Its disheartening for those whose hard earned money went down the drain.

This post has been edited by magika: Oct 25 2014, 12:23 PM

To use an analogy...

Those who invest in stocks directly should be like semi-pro car racers, they know the advanced side of driving, mechanical parts of cars etc

Those who invest in unit trusts should be like normal drivers with REASONABLE DILIGENCE, i.e. you should know how to change car tyre, you know how to check oil level, you should know that hazard lights are only meant to be used when your car is stationary (and NOT when it's raining heavily!), when <!> light lights up on your dash you know it's brake system failure or you forgot to disengage your handbrake and you should AT LEAST know how to refuel your car etc

Those so-called "layman investors" who just take UT salesman sales pitch for it and just dump in money and expect it to perform with ZERO monitor and review are like lady drivers (pardon me for being sexist) who don't even know how to refuel their car and only know how to scream "ahhhhhhhh~!" in an emergency situation and ramming into the car in front instead of calmly pressing the brake and put their car to a full stop.

However, there IS some funds that require almost zero monitoring and review - Balanced Funds, you can actually invest regularly in those funds and with time (and I mean YEARS), results will show. There are numerous Malaysia Balanced Funds that outperformed EPF in the long run.

Just for reference:

2 year | 3 year | 5 year | 10 year (annualised return p.a.)

RHB-OSK Smart Balanced Fund
19.0% 17.8% 12.6% 14.0%

Affin Hwang Select Balanced Fund
7.0% 10.1% 10.5% 10.4%

"Lazy" investors should not buy into those sensationalised funds like China funds, Gold funds, Emerging Market funds and so on, those are not meant for passive investors.

This post has been edited by Pink Spider: Oct 25 2014, 12:55 PM

To put it in a nutshell, you must be savvy driver and savvy investor. So UT is mostly sold to those not so savvy investor, how. Not buyers beware clause again.

I do think TS opinion is valid as its meant for those not savvy into investment. However those replying are sifu grade investment gurus.


This post has been edited by magika: Oct 25 2014, 01:39 PM

Magika, i'm definitely no sifu though i know some stuff, via taking effort & time to learn & test & see.

The problem i have with attitude / thinking pattern like TS (not with TS yar, no probs with him/her per se):
1. They spend more time thinking or deciding on lunch / dinner / weekend getaway / remodeling the entertainment room
VS saving & investing

2. THEN they go blame the investment, trade, tool, fund houses, agents, brokers, etc
and absolve themselves from ANY responsibilities

3. Wouldn't a logical person spend more time getting info & deciding on bigger impact items?

Heck, some even spend more time per day thinking of what clothes to wear and executing their make-up / make-down regime
IF that's the case, please don't lay the blame & responsibility squarely on others / tools lor.
This is called SELF-INFLICTED PAIN - right or right?

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Oct 25 2014, 06:31 PM

It's the mentality here.

Before u commit yourself, u are required to read the prospectus and then DECLARE (hey, u sign something, right?) that u understood what u are investing in and the risks involved. But, how many of us (yeah, Malaysians!) actually read or even browse through the prospectus? UT agent is required by regulations to obtain your consent/declaration before they can allow u to invest.

Typical Malaysian seller/agent: "Sir, u sign here, here and here..."
Typical Malaysian buyer/investor: "..." *sign sign and sign*

Err...isn't it common sense that YOU SHOULD NOT SIGN ANY DOCUMENT THAT YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND?

You were given the chance to learn, but you refuse. It's like, u are a multi-billionaire buying a private jet. The jet vendor tells u that u need professional training to pilot it or if u lazy, engage someone to pilot it for u. Then u say, "no need lar, here's your cheque, now bust off!"

And u blame the jet vendor (IF u manage to stay alive ) after your jet crash landed at some deserted island...

I reiterate, if u refuse to put in some homework, YOU SHOULD NOT INVEST IN ANYTHING . If u lose money, it's your fault alone.

In a bullish i.e. up-up-up market, everyone is a master stock/property picker...no need study wan...

Oi Masta wongmunkeong u got quote the wrong post or not? Quote my post but reply to magika?

This post has been edited by Pink Spider: Oct 25 2014, 05:27 PM

I do understand what all of you are saying and I do respect all, your opinions, thats why I said investment sifu. Not everybody has the interest in researching and reading up investment literature, either you have the interest or you havent. However we have common interest and that is to make lots of money. If every print media plus every Tom, d*** and Harry saying that UT is the way for noobies to make money than that becomes vogue. If we need the knowledge in investment, then why do we need to pay fund managers for ?

Regarding reading up all the documents before signing up, I really respect some of you who can really understand and read thru all that has been stated. It also needs knowledge to ask all the right questions.

That said, my understanding of the issue at hand is that UT is not for noobies.

Yeah, ASK QUESTIONS. No need to know everything, basic understanding will do.

sumimasen... saya banyak masin
must be old age & shaky fingers/hands - clicked on the wrong post

Corrected - see, responsibility, respond & tada.. fixed
Blame blame blame

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Oct 25 2014, 06:32 PM

Then nothing is for noobies other than guaranteed & insured stuff like FD.

My bro / sis - are there still people out there thinking they can GET SOMETHING for nothing?
Not even taking the effort in understanding a tool?
Are they not even literate? or it's just that they are stupid & trust blindly?
OR... worse.. lazy and prefer to think about what's for lunch/dinner?
That is fine & dandy - if one were to admit responsibility for self-inflicted pains, then learn from it.
Blaming is so easy right? But what does it solve - how can we get better from it?

Knowledge in the tool is NOT the same as knowledge in investing.
I know how a hammer works and why i'll use it.
Doesn't mean i'll be a great carpenter or a great handy-man, right?

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Oct 25 2014, 06:32 PM

We are not dealing with a brainless tool like hammer, don't be narrow minded. Our tool here is a smart fund manager/bank that claims himself to be an expert with professional knowledge in managing investor's fund. If you happened to buy a defective car after careful research, do you blame yourself for being dummy or the car manufacturer for bad quality?

You are blaming that the 80% of EPF members who lose their money in unit trust is self inflicted due to their laziness in doing research and lack of UT knowledge. Does it make sense that all the 80% of EPF members blindly invest their hard earn money as they are iliterate and don't care about their hard earn money? People with logical thinking would think the other way, that is 80% of our Unit Trust funds in the market is crap and managed by inferior fund managers who are lazy to do proper research with bad strategy and wrong judgement. That's why we fall into this trap easily.

Why u want to invest in UT? Because you are lacking of stock industry knowledge and have no time to properly manage your money. So, to what extent should an investor do their research? How much is proper and enough? If we are able to do extensive research and become knowledgeable in the stock market and have time to monitor the stock market ourselves, then we should fire all the fund managers and save the fund management fee. This is a great idea!

We can read through as many brochures or prospectus or past performance history as we can, but how reliable and how realistic are these information that are usually attractive and promising? The fund house has no liability on the information given and no obligation to achieve the fund objective as stated in the prospectus! When you confront the fund house on why the fund performance deviates from its fund objective, they just put the blame on the market sentiment as a powerful excuse. They don't blame themselves for poor fund management. That's why investors are so vulnerable, because the law only protects the bank.

This is human nature. When you are weak, people take great advantage on you and your money. If I am a fund manager, I also tends to think this way: I earn my fat salary regardless of my performance, I am fully protected legally, I don't have to bear investor's losses, why headache so much doing research for other money, just simply choose a stocklah, if anything go wrong, just blame the stock market trend lor.

Look yourself in the mirror before using the word stupid. Stop c@cking if you can't say any good word!

I am not a believer of UT myself. I mostly invest myself on holding directly in stock market.

But I would not blame the UT manger for their bad performance. All investment has risk. If you can't accept that, don't invest

It is not correct to say that UT manager earn big fat salary irregardless of their performance. UT is a consumer products. If the UT cannot make money for the customers, eventually they will be eliminated in the business. They have a lot of pressure to perform and show to their potential customer to pull in new business. So, if every investor is like you, experiencing losses in the UT they manage, they will close shop very soon.

The fact that there are no UT manager close shop for decades showed that overwhelming majority of their customers are happy. You are just a handful of their customer who fall short of their expectation and whine on a forum

2 words - due diligence, especially for lazy & short sighted folks looking to get rich without any thought on the tools used.

BTW, tool = mutual fund. NOT the fund manager.

Equity mutual funds invest in stocks.
Stocks go up/down/left/right
So, mutual funds won't lose $? Greedy, Dumb + illogical

Since U know human nature - why not better the worse of human nature?
Fight greed with logic (and due diligence)
Fight stupidity with knowledge
OR perhaps lazy people prefer to sit on their dumb asses and just blame?

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Oct 26 2014, 12:18 PM

Folks,

Come on.....

Let's think outside the box for a moment,

Why be a gambler when you can own the casino??

If UT companies (casino) always make money regardless whether the UT buyers (gamblers) make money, won't it makes sense to invest on UT companies instead??

Now, I am not suggesting everyone to start buying stock in UT companies, but, just think outside the box for a while.

I invest on Public Bank. Bank always make money unless it makes political loan. Insurance company are highly profitable. And, UT company makes money. Public bank owned all 3. I do not know whether it still does. But, won't it makes sense for you to do this if this is what you found??

Dreamer

This post has been edited by dreamer101: Oct 26 2014, 12:21 PM

Yeah - and when PBank goes south, our little blamer will blame who?
Gov protects the blah blah... again.

Although i agree with U, the crux of the matter here is: It's the person, not the investment vehicle(s)

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Oct 26 2014, 12:26 PM

BINGO !

FYI, EPF also appoint many of those so-called rotten, cheating fund managers to manage EPF's investments

I would think that the issue at hand is overselling of UT which misrepresented the risk involved. Dwell on the issues at hand rather then labelled others for their losses. Dont sit snugly with your hands crossed, sniggering to yourself, give proactive solution or explaination acceptable to all. Some of those losers are succesful men in their own right.

wow

now the dreaming oldman also joined in

own the casino?

Genting makes a lot of money. But most are retained in the Group and to pay FAT directors and management salary. Shareholders? *middle finger*

Public Bank? Miserly dividends

U don't really "own" it unless u control the management

Yeah, those uncles at Genting VIP rooms are sucksexfool men alright, if not for them, Genting close shop already

Success breeds arrogance which is a magnet for stupidity sometimes.

"I'm a successful businessman, u don't teach me what is right and wrong! "

Alright then

Once a a rich friend of mine told me, it doesnt matter who songlap what, what matters is you get your proper dues.