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> Proton IRIZ has 8 HPF parts, Preve have 12, polo, audi a4 has 5 - 9

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TSruffstuff
post Aug 28 2014, 11:40 AM, updated 12y ago

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TANJUNG MALIM 27 Ogos - Proton Holdings Bhd. (Proton), akan memulakan ujian pengeluaran model terbaharunya dengan nama gelaran PCC di kilangnya di sini dalam masa terdekat.

Timbalan Ketua Pegawai Eksekutifnya, Khairudin Datuk Yusoff berkata, ujian pengeluaran itu akan memastikan PCC berada di semua bilik pameran Proton sebelum model itu dilancarkan tidak lama lagi.

Beliau berkata, kilang Proton di Tanjung Malim merupakan kilang berkonsepkan pintar dan kini telah bersedia untuk memulakan pengeluaran pertama PCC.

Katanya, enjin untuk PCC akan dipasang di Shah Alam sebelum dihantar semula ke Tanjung Malim untuk pengeluaran sepenuhnya model tersebut.

"Kilang di Tanjung Malim ini sebenarnya mengeluarkan model Persona pada tahun 2007, model Gen 2 untuk eksport pada 2004, model Preve (2012), Suprima S (2013) dan yang terbaharu model PCC pada tahun ini,'' katanya pada sidang akhbar di majlis lawatan media ke kilang Proton di sini hari ini.

Kilang Proton di Tanjung Malim dikhususkan untuk pengeluaran model generasi baharu yang dibuka pada tahun 2004 dengan kos sebanyak RM1.8 bilion di kawasan seluas 512 hektar.

Pelaburan untuk fasa pertama membabitkan kos sebanyak RM1.52 bilion dan mampu mengeluarkan 150,000 buah kereta setahun dengan 2,442 orang pekerja.

Khairudin berkata, proses pengeluaran di kilang itu mengandungi lima bahagian iaitu enjin dan mesin transmisi, stamping, pemasangan badan kereta, mengecat, kemasan dan pemasangan akhir.

"Kilang ini menggunakan 205 robot dan berupaya mengeluarkan tiga platform kenderaan yang berbeza serta mampu mengeluarkan sembilan jenis model pada satu-satu masa,'' kata beliau.

Jelasnya, kilang di Tanjung Malim mempunyai keupayaan tinggi mengeluarkan PCC yang mempunyai ciri-ciri keselamatan terbaik dalam model segmen B.

Beliau turut memberitahu keupayaan kilang itu untuk menggunakan teknologi dari Jerman iaitu teknologi pembentukan panas (HPF) untuk model-model Preve, Suprima S dan PCC.

Teknologi itu katanya, dirintis oleh Proton dan merupakan syarikat automotif yang pertama di ASEAN dan biasanya digunakan untuk kereta-kereta buatan Eropah seperti Volkswagen, BMW, Ford dan lain-lain.

HPF itu akan menguatkan kerangka dan membantu menghasilkan penjimatan minyak tanpa mengurangkan ciri-ciri keselamatannya. PCC dilengkapi dengan lapan komponen HPF.




Artikel Penuh: http://www.utusan.com.my/utusan/Korporat/2...u#ixzz3BednbH7d
© Utusan Melayu (M) Bhd

--------------------

"For a simple comparison, Proton pointed out that the Volkswagen Polo, Audi A4 and BMW 5 Series use five, nine and 13 HPF parts respectively, while both the Preve and Suprima S have 12 each (the red bits below). Japanese automakers, on the other hand, have not adopted such a technique."

As for comparison Proton Preve/suprima s have 12 HPF parts. Perodua AXIA i don't know. Zero kot.

This post has been edited by ruffstuff: Aug 28 2014, 03:20 PM
blah2blah
post Aug 28 2014, 11:43 AM

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no matter what they build, still a proton
TSruffstuff
post Aug 28 2014, 11:44 AM

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QUOTE(andrewcha @ Aug 28 2014, 11:43 AM)
no matter what they build, still a proton
*
Wow. I thought at first they building honda. Thank you mr obvious.
SUSblinkxox
post Aug 28 2014, 11:44 AM

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doesnt matter. fc still rike 2.0
Boy96
post Aug 28 2014, 11:45 AM

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QUOTE(Joe Kreutz @ Aug 28 2014, 11:44 AM)
What is hpf?? Hpf stands for.......??
*
Hot press forming
TSruffstuff
post Aug 28 2014, 11:45 AM

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QUOTE(Joe Kreutz @ Aug 28 2014, 11:44 AM)
What is hpf?? Hpf stands for.......??
*
hot press forming metal. I think only few countries has this factory. And proton have one.
Cheesenium
post Aug 28 2014, 11:46 AM

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I actually hope that this will be a decent car.

Is it really that hard to have proton to build decent cars?
napoli26
post Aug 28 2014, 11:47 AM

kena toto 6/58
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protong n mas.... sama nasib
WannaGetBuffed
post Aug 28 2014, 11:47 AM

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price x leh lawan, now lawan parts. lawak betoi
ledtechn
post Aug 28 2014, 11:47 AM

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High tech factory but DPU can consider high. Talojik ini machiam.

This post has been edited by ledtechn: Aug 28 2014, 11:50 AM
Xefron
post Aug 28 2014, 11:48 AM

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if new engine pickup like i10 or Vios.i go buy.no need top speed.
marsupilami
post Aug 28 2014, 11:50 AM

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proton should go

MAS should stay


maraippo
post Aug 28 2014, 11:54 AM

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both should stay...u think gomen willing to let go income from car taxes and duties even if proton no longer in business? easy money for gomen lah. they wont take it off
SUSGoldenHorn
post Aug 28 2014, 11:58 AM

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QUOTE(Xefron @ Aug 28 2014, 11:48 AM)
if new engine pickup like i10 or Vios.i go buy.no need top speed.
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Lolololololololol

phunkydude
post Aug 28 2014, 12:02 PM

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QUOTE(ruffstuff @ Aug 28 2014, 11:45 AM)
hot press forming metal.  I think only few countries has this factory. And proton have one.
*
how does that lead to penjimatan minyak?

lighter chassis?
shadow910512
post Aug 28 2014, 12:05 PM

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hopefully they would solve its biggest problem

RELIABILITY, or
FC, or
PRICE owait
ry8128
post Aug 28 2014, 12:10 PM

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Preve/suprima got 12 parts but still same shit.. Low sales in Malaysia and other countries, drink petrol like drink water.. Penjimatan minyak? Haha..
SUSblinkxox
post Aug 28 2014, 12:11 PM

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i pray one day plotong will tutup kedai n sell their manufacturing plant to foreign automakers
SUSashcrimson
post Aug 28 2014, 12:16 PM

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QUOTE(Cheesenium @ Aug 28 2014, 12:46 PM)
I actually hope that this will be a decent car.

Is it really that hard to have proton to build decent cars?
*
since persona, proton cars are considered ok already... b4 that gen2 tiara was like... doh.gif

QUOTE(Xefron @ Aug 28 2014, 12:48 PM)
if new engine pickup like i10 or Vios.i go buy.no need top speed.
*
vios? pickup? seriously? laugh.gif
mukhlisz
post Aug 28 2014, 12:18 PM

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hope Proton release the crash test videos
SUSweyyt
post Aug 28 2014, 12:20 PM

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gt ANCAP 5 star?
Cheesenium
post Aug 28 2014, 12:23 PM

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QUOTE(ashcrimson @ Aug 28 2014, 12:16 PM)
since persona, proton cars are considered ok already... b4 that gen2 tiara was like... doh.gif
vios? pickup? seriously? laugh.gif
*
I actually like Persona's design. It is not as butt ugly like some other Proton cars like Juara, Savvy and Suprima.

I just hope they do more quality cars. Is it so hard to make Malaysian cars that I can be proud off? Than saying:"Kesian, why you buy a Savvy?" when you see one on the road in Australia. doh.gif
pml_318
post Aug 28 2014, 12:26 PM

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proton perodua & naza should leave, all other manufacturers should come in laugh.gif
Xefron
post Aug 28 2014, 12:27 PM

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QUOTE(ashcrimson @ Aug 28 2014, 12:16 PM)
since persona, proton cars are considered ok already... b4 that gen2 tiara was like... doh.gif
vios? pickup? seriously? laugh.gif
*
i mean not like 0-100km/h under 7s. driveable around 2K-2.5K RPM.

macam pro got torque dip.

Manlet
post Aug 28 2014, 12:29 PM

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Ford is kete europah meh

I tot ford is grom GM is from amerika
krizalid88
post Aug 28 2014, 12:39 PM

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as usual, thread with proton title will see toyoi inside with his facts..wait..facts?
fatani
post Aug 28 2014, 12:40 PM

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QUOTE(Toyoi @ Aug 28 2014, 11:36 AM)
Sikap sombong, riak will not give you big sales. Let rakyat pick which car best value for money, whether Axia or Erotica™.

Prevek, Suprimak™ should be No.1 sedan/hatch in Australia by now if really jagoh global car...

Australia Top 10 Best-selling Vehicles – 2014 to date (Jan - July 2014)
Toyota Corolla – 25,966
Mazda 3 – 25,945
Toyota HiLux – 22,300
Holden Commodore – 18,824
Hyundai i30 – 18,126
Ford Ranger – 15,466
Mitsubishi Triton – 13,039
Mazda CX-5 – 12,901
Volkswagen Golf (including Cabriolet) – 12,094
Toyota Camry – 11,923

proven Jagoh Global normally selected in MegaFactories episode by NatGeo channel...

Lexus LFA / Megafactories (National Geographic)
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mana kilang perotdua Toyoi? tak masuk Megafactories ker?
Arvinaaaaa
post Aug 28 2014, 12:47 PM

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QUOTE(andrewcha @ Aug 28 2014, 11:43 AM)
no matter what they build, still a proton
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dayum, i thought they building ferrari..
thanks bro for informing us
Piros
post Aug 28 2014, 12:49 PM

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QUOTE(andrewcha @ Aug 28 2014, 11:43 AM)
no matter what they build, still a proton
*
Really? shocking.gif I thought they are building Koenigsegg.

Thanks for informing us bro.
JoLee
post Aug 28 2014, 12:51 PM

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Bodoh, it doesn't mean that having a high-tech kilang will give you a high quality car or even a well designed car. Bolehland is pro in building big things but lacking in the human capability or even the maintenance
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post Aug 28 2014, 12:52 PM

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QUOTE(andrewcha @ Aug 28 2014, 11:43 AM)
no matter what they build, still a proton
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oh fak? shocking.gif I thought they are building Bentley.

Thanks for informing us bro.
fatani
post Aug 28 2014, 01:02 PM

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QUOTE(Toyoi @ Aug 28 2014, 11:55 AM)
Perodua tak pernah mimpi hoo-ha jadi jagoh global, cukuplah tolong rakyat buka kilang baru kasi peluang kerja, bikin & jual kereta jimat minyak...

buat aper masuk Megafactories kalau kilang separuh penuh tarak pasang kereta..?? malu lah satu youtube tengok
*
tolong toyota jual rebadge small car jer sebenar kejanya..sedan ke atas UMW dah sapu..murah pebenda myvavik sampai 50k.
krizalid88
post Aug 28 2014, 01:04 PM

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QUOTE(Toyoi @ Aug 28 2014, 12:55 PM)
Perodua tak pernah mimpi hoo-ha jadi jagoh global, cukuplah tolong rakyat buka kilang baru kasi peluang kerja, bikin & jual kereta jimat minyak...

buat aper masuk Megafactories kalau kilang separuh penuh tarak pasang kereta..?? malu lah satu youtube tengok
*
hahahahahahaa

hahahahahahaa


hahahahahahaa
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post Aug 28 2014, 01:05 PM

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QUOTE(weyyt @ Aug 28 2014, 12:20 PM)
gt ANCAP 5 star?
*
Got la... ANCAP 5 star Preve and suprima and upcoming PCC...

Real crash test...

Judge your self base on these pic the 5 car crashed in a row last week... Chevolet Optra got crashed by BMW 5series then Honda City then Proton Preve last Proton Inspira ...



» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

SUSaaaeye
post Aug 28 2014, 01:06 PM

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QUOTE(blinkxox @ Aug 28 2014, 12:11 PM)
i pray one day plotong will tutup kedai n sell their manufacturing plant to foreign automakers
*
I pray one day plotong will know how to make good quality products and know how to fully utilise the infrastructures given which at least make us proud to foreign automakers..
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post Aug 28 2014, 01:06 PM

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QUOTE(moviefans25 @ Aug 28 2014, 01:05 PM)
Got la... ANCAP 5 star Preve and suprima and upcoming PCC...
*
rclxms.gif thumbup.gif
Pain4UrsinZ
post Aug 28 2014, 01:18 PM

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QUOTE(ruffstuff @ Aug 28 2014, 11:45 AM)
hot press forming metal.  I think only few countries has this factory. And proton have one.
*
Atom stronger ?
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post Aug 28 2014, 02:47 PM

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QUOTE(moviefans25 @ Aug 28 2014, 01:05 PM)
Got la... ANCAP 5 star Preve and suprima and upcoming PCC...

Real crash test...

Judge your self base on these pic the 5 car crashed in a row last week... Chevolet Optra got crashed by BMW 5series then Honda City then Proton Preve last Proton Inspira ...
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

*
dafuq kind of crash test is this? lol
ry8128
post Aug 28 2014, 02:50 PM

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This shows how shallow thinkin Proton supporters are.. With this hpf thing, they def Proton and think it's gonna be world class.. Lmao..


TSruffstuff
post Aug 28 2014, 03:09 PM

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QUOTE(ry8128 @ Aug 28 2014, 02:50 PM)
This shows how shallow thinkin Proton supporters are.. With this hpf thing, they def Proton and think it's gonna be world class.. Lmao..
*
yes. Without HPF, proton can be high class too. LMAO.

Everything Proton do, all just rubish by the bashers. yawn.gif
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post Aug 28 2014, 03:14 PM

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QUOTE(shadow910512 @ Aug 28 2014, 12:05 PM)
hopefully they would solve its biggest problem

RELIABILITY, or
FC, or
PRICE owait
*
that OR is too much... sweat.gif
TSruffstuff
post Aug 28 2014, 03:19 PM

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"For a simple comparison, Proton pointed out that the Volkswagen Polo, Audi A4 and BMW 5 Series use five, nine and 13 HPF parts respectively, while both the Preve and Suprima S have 12 each (the red bits below). Japanese automakers, on the other hand, have not adopted such a technique."

Read more: http://paultan.org/2014/08/28/proton-pcc-t.../#ixzz3BfXJETYJ
superb999
post Aug 28 2014, 03:23 PM

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Why is it so hard for proton to understand the recipe of success? Malaysian dont care about safety. See the highest selling car, safe or not? Doesnt matter at all
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post Aug 28 2014, 03:23 PM

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kamounnn
i wanna see final product!
mid of sept soft launch?
TSruffstuff
post Aug 28 2014, 03:25 PM

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QUOTE(superb999 @ Aug 28 2014, 03:23 PM)
Why is it so hard for proton to understand the recipe of success? Malaysian dont care about safety. See the highest selling car, safe or not? Doesnt matter at all
*
you are definetly wrong. People care most safety on Proton cars, but when it comes to other cars, they don't care. laugh.gif

fantasy1989
post Aug 28 2014, 03:27 PM

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is time to buy new car laugh.gif
MasBoleh!
post Aug 28 2014, 03:31 PM

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QUOTE(fantasy1989 @ Aug 28 2014, 03:27 PM)
is time to buy new car laugh.gif
*
you baru je beli peugeot so fast wanna buy new car? shocking.gif
TSruffstuff
post Aug 28 2014, 03:42 PM

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QUOTE(Toyoi @ Aug 28 2014, 03:34 PM)
see, blame rakyat again.

there are over 130 other countries for Potong to conquer. go sell over there lah, why depend on local rakyat that no longer trust Potong.
*
Because our rakyat love china cars.
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post Aug 28 2014, 03:43 PM

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QUOTE(Toyoi @ Aug 28 2014, 03:34 PM)
see, blame rakyat again.

there are over 130 other countries for Potong to conquer. go sell over there lah, why depend on local rakyat that no longer trust Potong.
*
AGREED...
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post Aug 28 2014, 03:48 PM

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QUOTE(MasBoleh! @ Aug 28 2014, 03:31 PM)
you baru je beli peugeot so fast wanna buy new car?  shocking.gif
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cakap je biggrin.gif ..tengok mood and the price 1st
zarakiken
post Aug 28 2014, 03:50 PM

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ya ya ya... proton this proton that... even proton is gone there is no guaranty that the car prices will go down...

Also Japan cars also got problem la... sometime more problem also... but no people complain because of ego... because keep saying japs cars are the best... but bila rosak diam diam aje...

my company got 3 people drive vios... but every time i can see them complain car got problem... and also the car also not so old only 4 years only... so how to explain this arr...? god car wor...
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post Aug 28 2014, 03:50 PM

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TSruffstuff
post Aug 28 2014, 03:52 PM

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QUOTE(bigmac999 @ Aug 28 2014, 03:50 PM)
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Which proton you have? The one without HPF?
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post Aug 28 2014, 03:52 PM

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HPF for steel? i think a lot of car many move to aluminium already... and luxury makers are going for carbon fibre
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post Aug 28 2014, 03:52 PM

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QUOTE(ruffstuff @ Aug 28 2014, 03:42 PM)
Because our rakyat love china cars.
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Ok proton, go make new sub brand and rebadge china cars.
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post Aug 28 2014, 03:54 PM

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QUOTE(alaskanbunny @ Aug 28 2014, 03:52 PM)
HPF for steel? i think a lot of car many move to aluminium already... and luxury makers are going for carbon fibre
*
Axia also aluminum woo.
MasBoleh!
post Aug 28 2014, 03:55 PM

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QUOTE(fantasy1989 @ Aug 28 2014, 03:48 PM)
cakap je  biggrin.gif ..tengok mood and the price 1st
*
lol hand itchy wanna trade in 3 years Persona ke? tongue.gif
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post Aug 28 2014, 03:56 PM

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QUOTE(MasBoleh! @ Aug 28 2014, 03:55 PM)
lol hand itchy wanna trade in 3 years Persona ke? tongue.gif
*
nope..buy thinking to buy extra ..persona just want to renew insurance ..not worth if sell it

This post has been edited by fantasy1989: Aug 28 2014, 03:57 PM
kitzai
post Aug 28 2014, 03:57 PM

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japan none because they do not need HPF to make milo tin
MasBoleh!
post Aug 28 2014, 03:57 PM

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QUOTE(fantasy1989 @ Aug 28 2014, 03:56 PM)
nope..buy thinking to buy extra ..persona just want to renew insurance ..not worth if sell it
*
Fuiyo.... notworthy.gif notworthy.gif notworthy.gif
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post Aug 28 2014, 03:57 PM

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is this count, Discovery Channel : how do they do it : Proton Factory


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post Aug 28 2014, 03:59 PM

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QUOTE(MasBoleh! @ Aug 28 2014, 03:57 PM)
Fuiyo....  notworthy.gif  notworthy.gif  notworthy.gif
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planning only la biggrin.gif biggrin.gif
MasBoleh!
post Aug 28 2014, 04:02 PM

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QUOTE(fantasy1989 @ Aug 28 2014, 03:59 PM)
planning only la  biggrin.gif  biggrin.gif
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Everything also start from planning tongue.gif like software methodology's requirement stage hehe
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QUOTE(MasBoleh! @ Aug 28 2014, 04:02 PM)
Everything also start from planning tongue.gif like software methodology's requirement stage hehe
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nod.gif nod.gif nod.gif nod.gif
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post Aug 28 2014, 04:11 PM

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QUOTE(ruffstuff @ Aug 28 2014, 03:09 PM)
yes.  Without HPF, proton can be high class too.  LMAO.

Everything Proton do, all just rubish by the bashers.  yawn.gif
*
delusional.. rclxub.gif

acterly overseas people find proton rubbish..
zabanya
post Aug 28 2014, 04:12 PM

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QUOTE(Toyoi @ Aug 28 2014, 03:34 PM)
see, blame rakyat again.

there are over 130 other countries for Potong to conquer. go sell over there lah, why depend on local rakyat that no longer trust Potong.
*
this, everything also rakyat is at fault
if potong make such a good quality car, why would rakyat opt to other brand right
TSruffstuff
post Aug 28 2014, 04:13 PM

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QUOTE(zabanya @ Aug 28 2014, 04:12 PM)
this, everything also rakyat is at fault
if potong make such a good quality car, why would rakyat opt to other brand right
*
PCC quality or not?
JackXxX
post Aug 28 2014, 04:14 PM

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It's gonna launch on the 16th of September. Not that far away anymore.
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post Aug 28 2014, 04:16 PM

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QUOTE(ruffstuff @ Aug 28 2014, 04:13 PM)
PCC quality or not?
*
I got high hope on this car.
ar188
post Aug 28 2014, 04:16 PM

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QUOTE(fantasy1989 @ Aug 28 2014, 03:56 PM)
nope..buy thinking to buy extra ..persona just want to renew insurance ..not worth if sell it
*
your title: race rosak repair? laugh.gif laugh.gif
ry8128
post Aug 28 2014, 04:23 PM

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QUOTE(ruffstuff @ Aug 28 2014, 03:09 PM)
yes.  Without HPF, proton can be high class too.  LMAO.

Everything Proton do, all just rubish by the bashers.  yawn.gif
*
Kesian, so desperate..

If really proton is good and we Malaysians are just stupid bashers, proton should have success at other countries.. By too bad it's not the case..

Why? It's common sense bro, not a rocket science.. So I believe fanboy like u should und too smile.gif
buysellaccount
post Aug 28 2014, 04:23 PM

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they dun need a better car. they need a better marketing dept.
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post Aug 28 2014, 04:30 PM

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QUOTE(ar188 @ Aug 28 2014, 04:16 PM)
your title: race rosak repair?  laugh.gif  laugh.gif
*
dunno put what name then saja put lo

but race = see mood laugh.gif ..always corner 80

rosak = havent ..so no repair

just normal balancing/alignment every 8k and engine oil yada yada service

This post has been edited by fantasy1989: Aug 28 2014, 04:31 PM
TSruffstuff
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QUOTE(ry8128 @ Aug 28 2014, 04:23 PM)
Kesian, so desperate..

If really proton is good and we Malaysians are just stupid bashers, proton should have success at other countries.. By too bad it's not the case..

Why? It's common sense bro, not a rocket science.. So I believe fanboy like u should und too smile.gif
*
the thing is basher is bashing. They NEVER acknowledge any improvement or effort from Proton when they actually did. HPF investment is part of their effort which i think a major thing. There only few HPF facilities in the world. HPF is new for Proton. Thus i give them credit.

There is a difference between blind bashing and criticizing. And of course there is also blind supporters who support and buy Proton because of national pride. At the early stage of Proton, people buy because of this alone. Now, hardcore UMNO pun ludah kat Proton.

This post has been edited by ruffstuff: Aug 28 2014, 04:45 PM
SUSalaskanbunny
post Aug 28 2014, 04:40 PM

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QUOTE(ruffstuff @ Aug 28 2014, 03:54 PM)
Axia also aluminum woo.
*
protong guna hpf besi sekuat tin flex.gif
SamsengFan
post Aug 28 2014, 04:43 PM

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From the title

my conclusion is

HPF has nothing to do with a success of a car brand.
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QUOTE(ruffstuff @ Aug 28 2014, 04:30 PM)
the thing is basher is bashing. They NEVER acknowledge any improvement or effort from Proton when they actually did.  HPF investment is part of their effort which i think a major thing.  There only few HPF facilities in the world. HPF is new for Proton. Thus i give them credit.

There is a difference between blind bashing and criticizing.  And of course there is also blind supporters who support and buy Proton because of national pride. At the early stage of Proton, people buy because of this alone.  New hardcore UMNO pun ludah kat Proton.
*
HPF awesum bero!!

Mantap

cantek!!!!

Manyak baguih!!!
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post Aug 28 2014, 04:45 PM

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QUOTE(SamsengFan @ Aug 28 2014, 04:44 PM)
HPF awesum bero!!

Mantap

cantek!!!!

Manyak baguih!!!
*
thumbup.gif
kepong87
post Aug 28 2014, 04:50 PM

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QC is a big problem for proton.
some cars are well-built, some are not.
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QUOTE(Toyoi @ Aug 28 2014, 04:57 PM)
Volvo the world's strongest safest cars also tarak hoo-ha bising2 pun

that's difference of being delusional vs. humble
*
Who say volvo tarak hoo-ha..
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QUOTE(Toyoi @ Aug 28 2014, 04:57 PM)
Volvo the world's strongest safest cars also tarak hoo-ha bising2 pun

that's difference of being delusional vs. humble
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Proton ho ha.. still people don't know. All rubbish. rolleyes.gif
zarakiken
post Aug 28 2014, 05:17 PM

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QUOTE(Toyoi @ Aug 28 2014, 04:57 PM)
Volvo the world's strongest safest cars also tarak hoo-ha bising2 pun

that's difference of being delusional vs. humble
*
No lo... Volvo ada advert on his safety lo... just not air in malaysia only...
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post Aug 28 2014, 05:29 PM

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QUOTE(Toyoi @ Aug 28 2014, 04:57 PM)
Volvo the world's strongest safest cars also tarak hoo-ha bising2 pun

that's difference of being delusional vs. humble
*
Information that given out to public for them to aware of what Proton can bring is not "hoo-haaa"

Hoo haaa is when Proton themselves say something like this:

"oi oi ini banyak bagus mari beli mari murah kalau tak beli u rugi, kalau saya jual saya untung incek pun untung in kereta sangat bagus, dia tahan lasak 5 star ancap. hoo haaaa"

But Proton didnt do this, it's the people in forum/FB only. And what is the function of online forum BTW? If you know this answer then you will know that comments in forum/FB were not represent Proton themselves

This post has been edited by maxizanc: Aug 28 2014, 05:30 PM
ar188
post Aug 28 2014, 05:37 PM

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QUOTE(ruffstuff @ Aug 28 2014, 04:30 PM)
the thing is basher is bashing. They NEVER acknowledge any improvement or effort from Proton when they actually did.  HPF investment is part of their effort which i think a major thing.  There only few HPF facilities in the world. HPF is new for Proton. Thus i give them credit.

There is a difference between blind bashing and criticizing.  And of course there is also blind supporters who support and buy Proton because of national pride. At the early stage of Proton, people buy because of this alone.  Now, hardcore UMNO pun ludah kat Proton.
*
who care about support or not.. u supposed to do your own thing despite all odds and prove what u did was right via profit and sales figures , domestically and export..
HPF is just a process.. if you can get a strong cabin cage via conventional method so be it.. make sure you use HPF and Ultra high tensile steel with the end effect of having high safety score and also save fuel.. it's not about the strongest cabin frame, but end up every other performance and financial parameter is below average.

This post has been edited by ar188: Aug 28 2014, 05:38 PM
iconia17
post Aug 28 2014, 05:54 PM

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QUOTE(ar188 @ Aug 28 2014, 04:11 PM)
delusional..  rclxub.gif

acterly overseas people find proton rubbish..
*
Im starting to think that your line of work is closely related to perodua.lol

Good money eh?

This post has been edited by iconia17: Aug 28 2014, 05:56 PM
ar188
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QUOTE(iconia17 @ Aug 28 2014, 05:54 PM)
Im starting to think that your line of work is closely related to perodua.lol

Good money eh?
*
was in automotive, now in electronics.. biggrin.gif
bengang13
post Aug 28 2014, 06:02 PM

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is this why they are asking for 1,700,000,000 ?
taga
post Aug 28 2014, 06:02 PM

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proton sudah nama busuk
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post Aug 28 2014, 10:14 PM

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This post has been edited by mat79: Aug 28 2014, 10:17 PM
mat79
post Aug 28 2014, 10:15 PM

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i think prtn only ask for rnd imbursement from rnd grant,if allowed,n the rnd isnt more than 500 mill,n even bfore,the rnd grand is just around 10% of total rnd.

the 1.7 bill is just rumours from unknown party n prtn already denied it.

in 2012,if.not.mistaken,this thing happened,but with prtn asked petronas 3 billions,but in the end,prtn.buying petronas engineering dept.n paying money to petronas.

haishhh
SUSJames Bum
post Aug 28 2014, 10:31 PM

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QUOTE(andrewcha @ Aug 28 2014, 11:43 AM)
no matter what they build, still a proton
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A Proton engineer once told me it's all about brand perception.... put a BMW engine in a Proton people will still call it Proton but put Proton engine in BMW people will call it a BMW... of course provided no one knows about the engine change la
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QUOTE(James Bum @ Aug 28 2014, 10:31 PM)
A Proton engineer once told me it's all about brand perception.... put a BMW engine in a Proton people will still call it Proton but put Proton engine in BMW people will call it a BMW... of course provided no one knows about the engine change la
*
proton engineer ada hati nak burukkan nama bmw engineer.



carrera_gt
post Aug 28 2014, 11:23 PM

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Proton, pls make sport car thumbup.gif
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post Aug 29 2014, 12:09 AM

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QUOTE(James Bum @ Aug 28 2014, 11:31 PM)
A Proton engineer once told me it's all about brand perception.... put a BMW engine in a Proton people will still call it Proton but put Proton engine in BMW people will call it a BMW... of course provided no one knows about the engine change la
*
Proton engineer at least ada value...have experience in car and engine building... What about perodua engineer...takkan design bumper jer...
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post Aug 29 2014, 12:10 AM

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QUOTE(max_cavalera @ Aug 29 2014, 12:09 AM)
Proton engineer at least ada value...have experience in car and engine building... What about perodua engineer...takkan design bumper jer...
*
Perodua engineer pun bawak kereta proton baiii
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post Aug 29 2014, 12:11 AM

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proton can build a nice body, but lousy parts & accessories = lousy car.
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post Aug 31 2014, 06:37 PM

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QUOTE(max_cavalera @ Aug 29 2014, 12:09 AM)
Proton engineer at least ada value...have experience in car and engine building... What about perodua engineer...takkan design bumper jer...
*
tak boleh cakap cam tu bai... kita kena tgk kat overall bigger picture

buat kilang kereta ni sebenarnya utk apa? utk untung kan? walaupun P2 engineers just redesigned some models from daihatsu at least their cars are sell able and they are giving the consumers what they want sbb tu la dia market leader utk Msia local manufacturer for several years dah ni... ko design la keta camana canggih pun boleh terbang ke apa ke tapi kalau xleh nak jual atau org tak nak beli x guna jugak

Contoh cam Gen.2... mmg la designnya quite nice and sporty IMHO tapi x ramai org nak... lepas redesign jd Persona baru sales pick-up... kenape? sbb Gen.2 time tu design utk puaskan tengku mahaleel yg mmg taste ke arah sporty punya keta tp itu bukannye what consumer wants...paham x?

And lg satu kalau proton nak design apa keta dia nak pun aku x kisah asalkan dia x affect consumers... ini tak... rugi pastu kena gomen bail-out or gomen kena buat policy supaya kita nak tak nak kena beli keta dia and mcm2 lg... Lg satu P2 ni banding ngan Proton, xde byk support dia dpt... aku rasa gomen takkan bail out P2 kalau dia nak bangkrupt
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QUOTE(James Bum @ Aug 31 2014, 06:37 PM)
tak boleh cakap cam tu bai... kita kena tgk kat overall bigger picture

buat kilang kereta ni sebenarnya utk apa? utk untung kan? walaupun P2 engineers just redesigned some models from daihatsu at least their cars are sell able and they are giving the consumers what they want sbb tu la dia market leader utk Msia local manufacturer for several years dah ni... ko design la keta camana canggih pun boleh terbang ke apa ke tapi kalau xleh nak jual atau org tak nak beli x guna jugak

Contoh cam Gen.2... mmg la designnya quite nice and sporty IMHO tapi x ramai org nak... lepas redesign jd Persona baru sales pick-up... kenape? sbb Gen.2 time tu design utk puaskan tengku mahaleel yg mmg taste ke arah sporty punya keta tp itu bukannye what consumer wants...paham x?

And lg satu kalau proton nak design apa keta dia nak pun aku x kisah asalkan dia x affect consumers... ini tak... rugi pastu kena gomen bail-out or gomen kena buat policy supaya kita nak tak nak kena beli keta dia and mcm2 lg... Lg satu P2 ni banding ngan Proton, xde byk support dia dpt... aku rasa gomen takkan bail out P2 kalau dia nak bangkrupt
*
Perodua is more like ambik kesempatan to be 'national' car. They get the same treatment like national car, but none of their R&D came from local engineer. So apa tujuan sebenar penubuhan Perodua? Kalau nak menyemarakkan auto engineering dkt malaysia aku tak kisah. Tapi ini dah 20 tahun. Kalau ada engineer tempatan dekat perodua yang cuba2 design kereta, lepas tu tunjuk dekat orang jepun, paling kuat pun kena puji. Tak penah jadi kenyataan. Company jepun ni menangguk di air keruh. National car status, tapi jual Axia lagi mahal dari jual Daihatsu Ayla dekat indonesia. Padahal dah dapat EEV semua bagai.

Gen2 not because design bro. DPU on gentoo and waja is bad.
SUSJames Bum
post Aug 31 2014, 07:18 PM

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QUOTE(ruffstuff @ Aug 31 2014, 06:59 PM)
Perodua is more like ambik kesempatan to be 'national' car.  They get the same treatment like national car, but none of their R&D came from local engineer. So apa tujuan sebenar penubuhan Perodua?  Kalau nak menyemarakkan auto engineering dkt malaysia aku tak kisah. Tapi ini dah 20 tahun.  Kalau ada engineer tempatan dekat perodua yang cuba2 design kereta, lepas tu tunjuk dekat orang jepun, paling kuat pun kena puji. Tak penah jadi kenyataan. Company jepun ni menangguk di air keruh. National car status, tapi jual Axia lagi mahal dari jual Daihatsu Ayla dekat indonesia. Padahal dah dapat EEV semua bagai.

Gen2 not because design bro.  DPU on gentoo and waja is bad.
*
Ko kena ingat P2 ni kalau pape berlaku kemungkinan utk DRB or Khazanah utk bail out diaorg amat tipis... diaorg on their own. So rather then risk making losses (mana ada bizness nak buat rugi?) diaorg buat la rebadge... and kalau diaorg x amik kesempatan to be national car maka bodoh la diaorg. Tujuan sebenar P2 adalah utk buat untung, pasal menyemarakkan auto engineering tu aku not sure... Ya proton pun menyemarakkan auto engineering tapi sampai ke level mana?

Lg satu P2 ni dah provide pekerjaan utk about 5,000 ppl of our local people.... and true some may not learn very deep automotive know-how tapi diorg gain elsewhere through Japanese production system and quality control yg diajar oleh Jepun2 tersebut. Dan mereka yg belajar ilmu2 ini semua mungkin akan spred ke other industries and inadvertently improve the country's overall manufacturing system... byk concept2 Jepun dan Daihatsu/ Toyota yg diaorg dah belajar

Gen.2 and brother dia time tu Neo both pasal design... diaorg tak buat market survey yg keta sporty or 2 door dah xde org minat kecuali CEO yg minat motorsports
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QUOTE(James Bum @ Aug 31 2014, 07:18 PM)
Ko kena ingat P2 ni kalau pape berlaku kemungkinan utk DRB or Khazanah utk bail out diaorg amat tipis... diaorg on their own. So rather then risk making losses (mana ada bizness nak buat rugi?) diaorg buat la rebadge... and kalau diaorg x amik kesempatan to be national car maka bodoh la diaorg. Tujuan sebenar P2 adalah utk buat untung, pasal menyemarakkan auto engineering tu aku not sure... Ya proton pun menyemarakkan auto engineering tapi sampai ke level mana?

Lg satu P2 ni dah provide pekerjaan utk about 5,000 ppl of our local people.... and true some may not learn very deep automotive know-how tapi diorg gain elsewhere through Japanese production system and quality control yg diajar oleh Jepun2 tersebut. Dan mereka yg belajar ilmu2 ini semua mungkin akan spred ke other industries and inadvertently improve the country's overall manufacturing system... byk concept2 Jepun dan Daihatsu/ Toyota yg diaorg dah belajar

Gen.2 and brother dia time tu Neo both pasal design... diaorg tak buat market survey yg keta sporty or 2 door dah xde org minat kecuali CEO yg minat motorsports
*
Sampai ke level mana? Sampai level sekarang. Proton masih baru tapi dah banyak benda diorang belajar buat sendiri. Perodua? Ingat senang nak buat kereta?

Sebab itu tak perlu ada Perodua. Biar je UMW bawak datang kereta daihatsu toyota. Buat ape olok2 national car. Dekat indon dapat branding ori, lagi murah dekat sini dapat branding Perodua, lagi mahal.

Bila Perodua start buat kereta sendiri, aku akan sokong walaupun teruk macam mana first born diorang. Dari situ kita belajar.
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post Aug 31 2014, 07:53 PM

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Drb bukan gomen wei. Ada 50k staff makan gaji ngan drb including proton. Perodua ada 5k. Sekarang bawak semua supplier jepun bunuh loval supplier, habis cita2 supplier p2 nak supply toyota thailand ngan indon. Pelamin anganku musnah. Pastu dapat incentive eev. Kereta 1.0 bagi super low spec jugak, harga lebih kurang and then cold storage staff ramai2 and bawak jepun daihatsu yg kilang tutup bagi kerja kat malaysia duduk times square ramai2. Yg untung jepun yg sakit local. Yg barua ada lah dapat tempias bonus + alpha.
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QUOTE(max_cavalera @ Aug 29 2014, 12:09 AM)
Proton engineer at least ada value...have experience in car and engine building... What about perodua engineer...takkan design bumper jer...
*
rnd department and mfg department tak sama
kaizoku30
post Aug 31 2014, 07:59 PM

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sekali belajar, sudah 30 tahun, meanwhile kia
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post Aug 31 2014, 08:00 PM

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QUOTE
Proton also shared images of the car's dashboard display, which shows new features such as Bluetooth and an integrated map system in a built-in dashboard touchscreen display.

"It functions as a WiFi hotspot, so you and your passengers can catch up on all those social media updates," added the national carmaker.


wub.gif wub.gif wub.gif
yokoloco
post Aug 31 2014, 08:02 PM

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QUOTE(max_cavalera @ Aug 29 2014, 12:09 AM)
Proton engineer at least ada value...have experience in car and engine building... What about perodua engineer...takkan design bumper jer...
*
oh. didnt realized perodua had any engineers. lol. smile.gif
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QUOTE(kaizoku30 @ Aug 31 2014, 07:59 PM)
sekali belajar, sudah 30 tahun, meanwhile kia
*
Proton start doing car 15 years ago. Not 30.
SUSJames Bum
post Aug 31 2014, 08:35 PM

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QUOTE(ruffstuff @ Aug 31 2014, 07:23 PM)
Sampai ke level mana?  Sampai level sekarang. Proton masih baru tapi dah banyak benda diorang belajar buat sendiri.  Perodua?  Ingat senang nak buat kereta?

Sebab itu tak perlu ada Perodua.  Biar je UMW bawak datang kereta daihatsu toyota. Buat ape olok2 national car.  Dekat indon dapat branding ori, lagi murah dekat sini dapat branding Perodua, lagi mahal. 

Bila Perodua start buat kereta sendiri, aku akan sokong walaupun teruk macam mana first born diorang. Dari situ kita belajar.
*
Proton pun start dengan rebadge MMC cars... who are we to say that P2 will not design their own cars?

QUOTE(ruffstuff @ Aug 31 2014, 08:18 PM)
Proton start doing car 15 years ago.  Not 30.
*
In between LG designed BLM, rebadged Lancer to Inspira and latest the Accordana?
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post Aug 31 2014, 08:43 PM

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HPF untuk buat tin milo
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post Aug 31 2014, 08:47 PM

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QUOTE(James Bum @ Aug 31 2014, 09:35 PM)
Proton pun start dengan rebadge MMC cars... who are we to say that P2 will not design their own cars?
In between LG designed BLM, rebadged Lancer to Inspira and latest the Accordana?
*
perodua engineer spotted...
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QUOTE(James Bum @ Aug 31 2014, 08:35 PM)
Proton pun start dengan rebadge MMC cars... who are we to say that P2 will not design their own cars?


In between LG designed BLM, rebadged Lancer to Inspira and latest the Accordana?
*
21 years and counting. Still rebadging. As long as Daihatsu/Toyota won't teach local Perodua to design cars, then never.

They rebadge, and they also built their own car. See, when Proton rebadge suddenly not ok. When Perodua rebadge ohh that's fine. Anyway both doing rebadge, i don't endorse. The current rebadge such as Inspira and Accord is stupid. The accord make more business sense(platform sharing for real Perdana replacement), the current accord rebadge is still stupid. Building own D segment, with low volumes is not going to be profitable. They need to focus on volume market first, after that get back to D segment.

BTW, P2-30A also LG-CNS as the consultation firm.

This post has been edited by ruffstuff: Aug 31 2014, 08:51 PM
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QUOTE(BlackPen @ Aug 31 2014, 08:43 PM)
HPF untuk buat tin milo
*
HPF is not tin milo. Heh, you don't even care if Proton car is tin milo or not. As long as not Proton, tin coke pun ok.
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QUOTE(ruffstuff @ Aug 31 2014, 09:47 PM)
21 years and counting. Still rebadging.  As long as Daihatsu/Toyota won't teach local Perodua to design cars, then never.

They rebadge, and they also built their own car.  See, when Proton rebadge suddenly not ok. When Perodua rebadge ohh that's fine.  Anyway both doing rebadge, i don't endorse.  The current rebadge such as Inspira and Accord is stupid.  The accord make more business sense(platform sharing for real Perdana replacement), the current accord rebadge is still stupid. Building own D segment, with low volumes is not going to be profitable.  They need to focus on volume market first, after that get back to D segment.

BTW, P2-30A also LG-CNS as the consultation firm.
*
its what the rakyat wants...our ppl no need learn new technology...just import them all.... laugh.gif


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post Aug 31 2014, 08:52 PM

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QUOTE(ruffstuff @ Aug 31 2014, 08:47 PM)
21 years and counting. Still rebadging.  As long as Daihatsu/Toyota won't teach local Perodua to design cars, then never.

They rebadge, and they also built their own car.  See, when Proton rebadge suddenly not ok. When Perodua rebadge ohh that's fine.  Anyway both doing rebadge, i don't endorse.  The current rebadge such as Inspira and Accord is stupid.  The accord make more business sense(platform sharing for real Perdana replacement), the current accord rebadge is still stupid. Building own D segment, with low volumes is not going to be profitable.  They need to focus on volume market first, after that get back to D segment.

BTW, P2-30A also LG-CNS as the consultation firm.
*
Should add 21 years of profit and counting.
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post Aug 31 2014, 08:52 PM

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QUOTE(ruffstuff @ Aug 31 2014, 08:47 PM)
21 years and counting. Still rebadging.  As long as Daihatsu/Toyota won't teach local Perodua to design cars, then never.

They rebadge, and they also built their own car.  See, when Proton rebadge suddenly not ok. When Perodua rebadge ohh that's fine.  Anyway both doing rebadge, i don't endorse.  The current rebadge such as Inspira and Accord is stupid.  The accord make more business sense(platform sharing for real Perdana replacement), the current accord rebadge is still stupid. Building own D segment, with low volumes is not going to be profitable.  They need to focus on volume market first, after that get back to D segment.

BTW, P2-30A also LG-CNS as the consultation firm.
*
iinm accordana is not for consumer purchase

This post has been edited by ichi_24: Aug 31 2014, 08:53 PM
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QUOTE(andrewcha @ Aug 28 2014, 11:43 AM)
no matter what they build, still a proton
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aku nak tengok berapa lama Syed Mokhtar nak pegang company proton ni.
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QUOTE(max_cavalera @ Aug 31 2014, 08:51 PM)
its what the rakyat wants...our ppl no need learn new technology...just import them all....  laugh.gif
*
kadang kadang yang aku kesian engineer yang kerja kat dalam proton tu. ada design cantik . idea bernas tapi disebabkan orang atasan kata TAK NAK / TAK BOLEH / TAK LULUS / kos tinggi bla bla bla . kesudahan habis macam tu.

part yang paling best orang atasan proton pun xde pandu kereta Proton ni sendiri. diorang pandu brand lain.
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QUOTE(James Bum @ Aug 31 2014, 08:52 PM)
Should add 21 years of profit and counting.
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Profit goes to jepun. I don't care. We need local engineering. Perodua supposed to help Proton, in this case help local talent. Local engineer bersaing sesama sendiri, baru best. Rugila belajar universiti, cita2 masa kecil nak buat kereta.. alih2 buat bumper je.
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QUOTE(ruffstuff @ Aug 31 2014, 08:47 PM)
21 years and counting. Still rebadging.  As long as Daihatsu/Toyota won't teach local Perodua to design cars, then never.

They rebadge, and they also built their own car.  See, when Proton rebadge suddenly not ok. When Perodua rebadge ohh that's fine.  Anyway both doing rebadge, i don't endorse.  The current rebadge such as Inspira and Accord is stupid.  The accord make more business sense(platform sharing for real Perdana replacement), the current accord rebadge is still stupid. Building own D segment, with low volumes is not going to be profitable.  They need to focus on volume market first, after that get back to D segment.

BTW, P2-30A also LG-CNS as the consultation firm.
*
i think your brain not alright..

so you saying what proton is doing like 10k cars per month and losing money, is the right direction compared to entire thai and indonesia automotive industry over 2million vehicles ...
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QUOTE(K.I.T.T @ Aug 31 2014, 08:57 PM)
kadang kadang yang aku kesian engineer yang kerja kat dalam proton tu. ada design cantik . idea bernas tapi disebabkan orang atasan kata TAK NAK / TAK BOLEH / TAK LULUS / kos tinggi bla bla bla . kesudahan habis macam tu.

part yang paling best orang atasan proton pun xde pandu kereta Proton ni sendiri. diorang pandu brand lain.
*
Sebab cost dan harga jualan. Strategi sebelum ni jual kereta segmen C pada harga B. Segmen B, harga A. Ada target harga. Nak buat macam2 memang tak boleh. But now, new strategy. Segmen B, harga pun segmen B, but still affordable. So lot of thing made it to the final production on PCC. The price, definitely higher than previos Proton on same segment. Even though, this PCC is new segment for Proton.
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QUOTE(ruffstuff @ Aug 31 2014, 08:59 PM)
Profit goes to jepun. I don't care.  We need local engineering. Perodua supposed to help Proton, in this case help local talent.  Local engineer bersaing sesama sendiri, baru best.  Rugila belajar universiti, cita2 masa kecil nak buat kereta.. alih2 buat bumper je.
*
there are many types of engineering, dont do automotive doesnt mean cannot excel in other engineering fields..
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QUOTE(ruffstuff @ Aug 31 2014, 08:50 PM)
HPF is not tin milo.  Heh, you don't even care if Proton car is tin milo or not.  As long as not Proton, tin coke pun ok.
*
i mean use HPF to make tin milo whistling.gif later buy problem have windows problem not good la whistling.gif
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QUOTE(ruffstuff @ Aug 31 2014, 08:18 PM)
Proton start doing car 15 years ago.  Not 30.
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the prob is with the proton engine, if they cannot make good engine transmission, please buy from other manufacture, jaguar did that land rover did that and the list goes on, dont blame people for buying perodua for teh better engine.
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QUOTE(ar188 @ Aug 31 2014, 09:03 PM)
i think your brain not alright..

so you saying what proton is doing like 10k cars per month and losing money, is the right direction compared to  entire thai and indonesia automotive industry over 2million vehicles ...
*
Need to cater both. Business and engineering talent. We still learning. At least we learn and practise. If it takes another 20 years so be it. If the purpose is right, even though lot of shortcoming, that's the challenge. Cannot quit. But too bad, during this process, there is few yang ambil kesempatan nak untung cepat. This where Proton did wrong. When people supporting the purpose of having local automative engineering on the early stage, few ambil kesempatan. Back then people buy proton just for national pride. Now fikir seratus kali to buy proton. Before buying proton, all things kena check. Even all checked, still buy non Proton. As long as not proton.
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QUOTE(ruffstuff @ Aug 31 2014, 09:09 PM)
Need to cater both. Business and engineering talent.  We still learning.  At least we learn and practise. If it takes another 20 years so be it. If the purpose is right, even though lot of shortcoming, that's the challenge.  Cannot quit. But too bad, during this process, there is few yang ambil kesempatan nak untung cepat. This where Proton did wrong.  When people supporting the purpose of having local automative engineering on the early stage, few ambil kesempatan.  Back then people buy proton just for national pride.  Now fikir seratus kali to buy proton. Before buying proton, all things kena check. Even all checked, still buy non Proton. As long as not proton.
*
if you take 20years to learn it means no talent la.. doh.gif in real world, no one wait for you to make mistakes and learn the slow way.. either you catch up and try to survive, earning yearly profit or sink and drown when u finish up your capital reserves...
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QUOTE(kaizoku30 @ Aug 31 2014, 09:08 PM)
the prob is with the proton engine, if they cannot make good engine transmission, please buy from other manufacture, jaguar did that land rover did that and the list goes on, dont blame people for buying perodua for teh better engine.
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transmission, they buy from europe.. that cvt ...
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post Aug 31 2014, 09:15 PM

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QUOTE(ar188 @ Aug 31 2014, 09:12 PM)
if you take 20years to learn it means no talent la..  doh.gif  in real world, no one wait for you to make mistakes and learn the slow way.. either you catch up and try to survive, earning yearly profit or sink and drown when u finish up your capital reserves...
*
20 years also learn but kenot practise. It either you quit, let Jepun do it. No need to say still learn, and get biasiswa.
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post Aug 31 2014, 09:17 PM

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QUOTE(ruffstuff @ Aug 31 2014, 09:15 PM)
20 years also learn but kenot practise. It either you quit, let Jepun do it.  No need to say still learn, and get biasiswa.
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at the end of the road, it doesnt look too rosy.. you need more than usd1bil to make a competitive B/C segment global car.. so got or not this money?
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QUOTE(ar188 @ Aug 31 2014, 09:17 PM)
at the end of the road, it doesnt look too rosy.. you need more than usd1bil to make a competitive B/C segment global car.. so got or not this money?
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Tun already asked 1.7 billion.
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post Aug 31 2014, 09:24 PM

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QUOTE(ruffstuff @ Aug 31 2014, 09:18 PM)
Tun already asked 1.7 billion.
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see can get or not?
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post Aug 31 2014, 09:26 PM

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QUOTE(ar188 @ Aug 31 2014, 09:24 PM)
see can get or not?
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get or not, will not announce la. brows.gif

This post has been edited by ruffstuff: Aug 31 2014, 09:27 PM
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QUOTE(ruffstuff @ Aug 31 2014, 09:03 PM)
Sebab cost dan harga jualan.  Strategi sebelum ni jual kereta segmen C pada harga B. Segmen B, harga A. Ada target harga. Nak buat macam2 memang tak boleh.  But now, new strategy. Segmen B, harga pun segmen B, but still affordable. So lot of thing made it to the final production on PCC. The price, definitely higher than previos Proton on same segment. Even though, this PCC is new segment for Proton.
*
aku rasa PCC ni untung sebijik x banyak. tapi pasal market tu market Perodua dah pegang selama ni brows.gif so kerja tu agak mudah dan senang.

kalau ko tanya aku tindakan Proton terjun buat segmen kereta macam ni hanya akan "membunuh" Proton tu sendiri dalam tempoh 5 tahun akan datang.
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post Aug 31 2014, 09:49 PM

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QUOTE(K.I.T.T @ Aug 31 2014, 09:36 PM)
aku rasa PCC ni untung sebijik x banyak. tapi pasal market tu market Perodua dah pegang selama ni  brows.gif so kerja tu agak mudah dan senang.

kalau ko tanya aku tindakan Proton terjun buat segmen kereta macam ni hanya akan "membunuh" Proton tu sendiri dalam tempoh 5 tahun akan datang.
*
save this and get back in 5 yrs time. Apa yang membunuh? It is good to be competitive. And PCC is new platform for 2 other models. So it is not just entering segment, but to spawn for other model as well, the Saga 3.
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post Aug 31 2014, 09:54 PM

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does it blend?
how is it blend.
compare to auidi?
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post Aug 31 2014, 09:56 PM

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QUOTE(issedadecy @ Aug 31 2014, 09:54 PM)
does it blend?
how is it blend.
compare to auidi?
*
kenot. Even if bomba want to cut the part with their tool kenot. Proton already informed bomba to not cut the steel where HPF located if accident happened.
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QUOTE(Cheesenium @ Aug 28 2014, 11:46 AM)
I actually hope that this will be a decent car.

Is it really that hard to have proton to build decent cars?
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Supply chain in Malaysia is really horrible...our suppliers in Malaysia or use bangga la standard one....my friend used to work in one supplier...really shitbrix standards..all songlap.
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post Aug 31 2014, 10:00 PM

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QUOTE(ruffstuff @ Aug 31 2014, 09:56 PM)
kenot.  Even if bomba want to cut the part with their tool kenot.  Proton already informed bomba to not cut the steel where HPF located if accident happened.
*
so it cannot blend, they already failed at presenting people about their technology. laugh.gif
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QUOTE(issedadecy @ Aug 31 2014, 10:00 PM)
so it cannot blend, they already failed at presenting people about their technology. laugh.gif
*
if can blend, then the tech is fail.
Try blend your didi in your blendtec blender see can blend or not. Present your tech.

This post has been edited by ruffstuff: Aug 31 2014, 10:04 PM
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post Aug 31 2014, 10:10 PM

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QUOTE(ruffstuff @ Aug 31 2014, 09:49 PM)
save this and get back in 5 yrs time.  Apa yang membunuh?  It is good to be competitive.  And PCC is new platform for 2 other models.  So it is not just entering segment, but to spawn for other model as well, the Saga 3.
*
PROTON its a "cheap" manufacture. whatever segment PROTON enter sure release "cheap" car. same thing happend when 1st PROTON enter market with 1st Proton SAGA. that time Proton SAGA "cheapest" car in malaysia that time. but after 20 years this cheapest car become secondhand and can get at RM 1k price. but same time PROTON still like that. with kind of rebadge. and plus nowdays Korean car and China car entering market and get place from our malaysians.

unless this new PROTON car built with self destructed (Suka suka terbakar. suka suka excident insuran also cant do anything ) make it non-repairable make it expensive to keep then PROTON can win market!

but yang aku tahu kat Malaysia ni selagi kereta tu boleh pakai. mereka akan pakai.

kalau ko x faham jugak ko tengok industri IT. ko tengok industri IT rosak macam mana.

This post has been edited by K.I.T.T: Aug 31 2014, 10:17 PM
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post Aug 31 2014, 10:13 PM

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QUOTE(ruffstuff @ Aug 31 2014, 10:03 PM)
if can blend, then the tech is fail.
Try blend your didi in your blendtec blender see can blend or not.  Present your tech.
*
whistling.gif so it is designed to not blend together and to detach itself when using, sound like very exciting.
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QUOTE(K.I.T.T @ Aug 31 2014, 10:10 PM)
PROTON its a "cheap" manufacture. whatever segment PROTON enter sure release "cheap" car. same thing happend when 1st PROTON enter market with 1st Proton SAGA. that time Proton SAGA "cheapest" car in malaysia that time. but after 20 years this cheapest car become secondhand and  can get at RM 1k price. but same time PROTON still like that. with kind of rebadge. and plus nowdays Korean car and China car entering market and get place from our malaysians.

unless this new PROTON car built with self destructed (Suka suka terbakar. suka suka excident insuran also cant do anything ) make it non-repairable make it expensive to keep then PROTON can win market!

but yang aku tahu kat Malaysia ni selagi kereta tu boleh pakai. mereka akan pakai.
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you don't make any sense.


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post Aug 31 2014, 10:18 PM

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QUOTE(issedadecy @ Aug 31 2014, 10:13 PM)
whistling.gif so it is designed to not blend together and to detach itself when using, sound like very exciting.
*
what is so exciting?
ar188
post Aug 31 2014, 10:19 PM

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QUOTE(ruffstuff @ Aug 31 2014, 10:17 PM)
you don't make any sense.
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sounds like you lor.. biggrin.gif every day HPF.
pls dont confuse HPF with ultra high strength steel.. one is a forming process (HPF) to get UHSS results for certain areas on the frame, you think automakers no use UHSS parts meh?
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post Aug 31 2014, 10:21 PM

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QUOTE(ruffstuff @ Aug 31 2014, 10:17 PM)
you don't make any sense.
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xpe. aku x salahkan ko kerana ko x faham. tapi macam aku cakap 5 tahun akan datang. ko tengok dan lihat. sama ada PROTON time tu LAGI BAGUS atau LEBIH TERUK daripada apa yang ada sekarang.

aku still dengan keputusan aku. smile.gif
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post Aug 31 2014, 10:23 PM

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Kereta belum keluar, sudah bersilat sekampung
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post Aug 31 2014, 10:29 PM

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QUOTE(ar188 @ Aug 31 2014, 10:19 PM)
sounds like you lor.. biggrin.gif every day HPF.
  pls dont confuse HPF with ultra high strength steel.. one is a forming process (HPF) to get UHSS results for certain areas on the frame, you think automakers no use UHSS parts meh?
*
UHSS, but most did not get into the HPF process. Proton before preve already use UHSS.
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post Aug 31 2014, 10:34 PM

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QUOTE(ruffstuff @ Aug 31 2014, 10:29 PM)
UHSS, but most did not get into the HPF process. Proton before preve already use UHSS.
*
so why do you need HPF? cos its just a method to form steel high strength steel (HSS) to become ultra HSS la..

deswai i say why you keep harping about HPF... no logic
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post Aug 31 2014, 10:50 PM

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QUOTE(K.I.T.T @ Aug 31 2014, 10:21 PM)
xpe.  aku x salahkan ko kerana ko x faham. tapi macam aku cakap 5 tahun akan datang. ko tengok dan lihat. sama ada PROTON time tu LAGI BAGUS atau LEBIH TERUK daripada apa yang ada sekarang.

aku still dengan keputusan aku.  smile.gif
*
I like the way you wrote with confidence!

Theres still many unknown factors as at now, ie car prices, spec, etc...

Down the road, its up to how Proton improve their after sales service... 3 years free maintainence included... a lot of areas Proton need to catch up peope expectation!
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post Aug 31 2014, 10:51 PM

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QUOTE(ruffstuff @ Aug 31 2014, 10:18 PM)
what is so exciting?
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more exciting than riding roller coaster.
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post Aug 31 2014, 10:53 PM

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U suka u beli u tak suka u jangan beli. Its as simple as that. No one is putting a gun on your head forcing you to buy
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QUOTE(vin_ann @ Aug 31 2014, 10:50 PM)
I like the way you wrote with confidence!

Theres still many unknown factors as at now, ie car prices, spec, etc...

Down the road, its up to how Proton improve their after sales service... 3 years free maintainence included... a lot of areas Proton need to catch up peope expectation!
*
thanks bro. blush.gif

macam my sister. buy Proton Savvy hutang bank 9 tahun. now kereta still hutang lagi but secondhand can get RM 9999 for Proton Savvy

i still remember my sis car 2 minggu late than my car. my car its a myvi. i am repeat MYVI its a same YEAR manufacturing and both of car its A NEW. i am also paying 9 years my sis also 9 years. but ....

myvi resale value still OK. siap kira balik ada untung RM 2k blink.gif drool.gif but my sis car....... doh.gif


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post Aug 31 2014, 11:47 PM

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Open the market, let the manufacturer set the price war, then we can talk a loud about Proton car if they win.
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post Aug 31 2014, 11:50 PM

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QUOTE(ry8128 @ Aug 28 2014, 12:10 PM)
Preve/suprima got 12 parts but still same shit.. Low sales in Malaysia and other countries, drink petrol like drink water.. Penjimatan minyak? Haha..
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U drive one? hmm.gif
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post Aug 31 2014, 11:54 PM

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QUOTE(shamsul_LP @ Aug 31 2014, 11:50 PM)
U drive one? hmm.gif
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Drive one, no.. Sit in one, yes.. Fuel consumption terribly bad, as my friend own a preve..
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post Aug 31 2014, 11:56 PM

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QUOTE(ry8128 @ Aug 31 2014, 11:54 PM)
Drive one, no.. Sit in one, yes.. Fuel consumption terribly bad, as my friend own a preve..
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user posted image
above poster's car.. biggrin.gif
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post Sep 1 2014, 12:02 AM

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QUOTE(K.I.T.T @ Aug 31 2014, 11:43 PM)
thanks bro. blush.gif

macam my sister. buy Proton Savvy hutang bank 9 tahun. now kereta still hutang lagi but secondhand can get RM 9999 for Proton Savvy 

i still remember my sis car 2 minggu late than my car. my car its a myvi. i am repeat MYVI its a same YEAR manufacturing and both of car its A NEW. i am also paying 9 years my sis also 9 years. but ....

myvi resale value still OK. siap kira balik ada untung RM 2k  blink.gif  drool.gif  but my sis car....... doh.gif
*
Have u try carbase.my under paultan? My 2007 Myvi show have RM26,900 second hand market value.

Not sure how accurate it be. Theres statement saying actual may vary btw 2k to 5k.
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QUOTE(ar188 @ Aug 31 2014, 11:56 PM)
user posted image
above poster's car.. biggrin.gif
*
12.6l/100km = rm0.26/km.. Hmm, more/less same with my friend de.. he normally pump rm60, can move 230-250km like this..
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post Sep 1 2014, 12:09 AM

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QUOTE(ry8128 @ Sep 1 2014, 12:08 AM)
12.6l/100km = rm0.26/km.. Hmm, more/less same with my friend de.. he normally pump rm60, can move 230-250km like this..
*
2L cars also dun drink so much
krizalid88
post Sep 1 2014, 07:21 AM

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u guise when peugeot consume more fuel than suprima u guise never komplen 1
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QUOTE(krizalid88 @ Sep 1 2014, 07:21 AM)
u guise when peugeot consume more fuel than suprima u guise never komplen 1
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Peugeot refinement level is higher class already. I remember when i test drove the suprima, suddenly the rpm shoot up. Then i realise it was for the engine braking for a small downhill. The problem is, i was already on a flat road. There is kinda delay in that engine braking. I think the cheaper saga flx/sv is more refine in this aspect.

This post has been edited by ledtechn: Sep 1 2014, 07:40 AM
pg84
post Sep 1 2014, 07:35 AM

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QUOTE(krizalid88 @ Sep 1 2014, 07:21 AM)
u guise when peugeot consume more fuel than suprima u guise never komplen 1
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My peugeot is kinda fuel efficient...
Avex
post Sep 1 2014, 08:04 AM

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With that so called gadgets and tech Proton putting in, won't come to a surprise that it will be RM50k region. Why not just go for a Jap car already by topping up.
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post Sep 1 2014, 08:13 AM

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QUOTE(krizalid88 @ Sep 1 2014, 07:21 AM)
u guise when peugeot consume more fuel than suprima u guise never komplen 1
*
it depend on my kaki (508 can reach 10.8L/100km above for pure city drive if got hamtam pedal) pure highway will get around 6.1L/100km ..but persona kaki lembut or hamtam also not much different[maybe just different 0.2L ..f*** it ..so kasi hamtam je laugh.gif baru syok (persona is city car ..so dont have highway FC ..but iinm is around 7.6~8.2L/100km

today my persona celebrate 50k mileage liao

is time to change transmission oil sweat.gif

This post has been edited by fantasy1989: Sep 1 2014, 08:24 AM
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post Sep 1 2014, 08:21 AM

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QUOTE(Avex @ Sep 1 2014, 08:04 AM)
With that so called gadgets and tech Proton putting in, won't come to a surprise that it will be RM50k region. Why not just go for a Jap car already by topping up.
*
any japs car in 50k?

by topping up? mainstream n good specs japs car close to 80k [come with mid range safety feature]

50k + top up 30k(sudah how many percent?)

This post has been edited by fantasy1989: Sep 1 2014, 08:23 AM
Avex
post Sep 1 2014, 08:25 AM

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QUOTE(fantasy1989 @ Sep 1 2014, 08:21 AM)
any japs car in 50k?

by topping up? mainstream n good specs japs car close to 80k [come with mid range safety feature]

50k + top up 30k(sudah how many percent?)
*
RM50k is around mid spec for this Proton model. The high end spec would even reach RM60k, with that better to topup and get a Jap car.
Jap car manufacturer have and again proven reliability track record

This post has been edited by Avex: Sep 1 2014, 08:27 AM
fantasy1989
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QUOTE(Avex @ Sep 1 2014, 08:25 AM)
RM50k is around mid spec for this Proton model. The high end spec would even reach RM60k
*
maivi [ japs DNA] extim pun 62k biggrin.gif
SUSJames Bum
post Sep 1 2014, 08:28 AM

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QUOTE(ruffstuff @ Aug 31 2014, 08:59 PM)
Profit goes to jepun. I don't care.  We need local engineering. Perodua supposed to help Proton, in this case help local talent.  Local engineer bersaing sesama sendiri, baru best.  Rugila belajar universiti, cita2 masa kecil nak buat kereta.. alih2 buat bumper je.
*
You don't care but how about the 5000 local people employed by this Japanese company feeding their family? If it's another company say Daihatsu and they don't have a national car status they may hire foreigners at the assembly line... that means around 3-4k jobs loss to foreigners

There's another car assembly company near P2 that has foreigners at the assembly line. I don't want to give names but if you know automotive well enough you should know which company is that
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post Sep 1 2014, 08:32 AM

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QUOTE(James Bum @ Sep 1 2014, 08:28 AM)
You don't care but how about the 5000 local people employed by this Japanese company feeding their family? If it's another company say Daihatsu and they don't have a national car status they may hire foreigners at the assembly line... that means around 3-4k jobs loss to foreigners

There's another car assembly company near P2 that has foreigners at the assembly line. I don't want to give names but if you know automotive well enough you should know which company is that
*
The difference in that is Bolehland government policies. Right now cheap foreign labour can be hired easily in manufacturing industries.
SUSJames Bum
post Sep 1 2014, 08:34 AM

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QUOTE(ruffstuff @ Aug 31 2014, 10:29 PM)
UHSS, but most did not get into the HPF process. Proton before preve already use UHSS.
*
All the forming done by Proton or another company? Do you really have inside knowledge or merely repeating stuffs that are already out in the net?

Do you know P2 supply parts to Proton too? Do you know which part?
SUSfingercrackg
post Sep 1 2014, 08:48 AM

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shud sell the shares to VW....
saw what happpened to bugatti, ducati, audi once bought buy VW..

at one time...audi resale value bladi horrible....
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QUOTE(ar188 @ Aug 31 2014, 10:34 PM)
so why do you need HPF? cos its just a method to form steel high strength steel (HSS) to become ultra HSS la..

deswai i say why you keep harping about HPF... no logic
*
Conventional method does not guarantee 90% part accuracy. HPF will maintain part accuracy, BIW, without need to increase metal thickness.

QUOTE(James Bum @ Sep 1 2014, 08:28 AM)
You don't care but how about the 5000 local people employed by this Japanese company feeding their family? If it's another company say Daihatsu and they don't have a national car status they may hire foreigners at the assembly line... that means around 3-4k jobs loss to foreigners

There's another car assembly company near P2 that has foreigners at the assembly line. I don't want to give names but if you know automotive well enough you should know which company is that
*
So the other company is Daihatsu? Toyota?

QUOTE(James Bum @ Sep 1 2014, 08:34 AM)
All the forming done by Proton or another company? Do you really have inside knowledge or merely repeating stuffs that are already out in the net?

Do you know P2 supply parts to Proton too? Do you know which part?
*
Proton already acquired the share of the stamping company. P2 supply campro engine part to Proton. So? This how the industry works. No complain.

We are talking about P2 is not doing anything to improve engineering talent, despite being 'national car' status. That is why Tun M being sour towards Perodua because they moved away from the original purpose of being the second national car company. I don't think he will allowed Perodua existed, if he knew the Japanese is taking over Perodua.

So when Perodua start build their own car, i will support them. Local engineering, and bagi makan 5k local workers.
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post Sep 1 2014, 09:24 AM

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QUOTE(ruffstuff @ Sep 1 2014, 09:05 AM)
Conventional method does not guarantee 90% part accuracy. HPF will maintain part accuracy, BIW, without need to increase metal thickness.
So the other company is Daihatsu? Toyota?
Proton already acquired the share of the stamping company. P2 supply campro engine part to Proton.  So? This how the industry works. No complain.

We are talking about P2 is not doing anything to improve engineering talent, despite being 'national car' status. That is why Tun M being sour towards Perodua because they moved away from the original purpose of being the second national car company.  I don't think he will allowed Perodua existed, if he knew the Japanese is taking over Perodua.

So when Perodua start build their own car, i will support them. Local engineering, and bagi makan 5k local workers.
*
The other company is TCMA of course. Even though proton has already acquired miyazu's share, the mold design, technology up to production is done by miyazu... proton merely receives the parts. What proton did was outsourcing the process and production to them just like buying parts from vendors. Where's the tech transfer? The tech is still from Japan and this is like repeat of MMC days.

Vice versa Japanese taking over P2 that's how the industry works too.

I think mahathir is just being an old sour grape cos P2 has kicked proton in the nuts in terms of sales and profit. He failed to see that this is not north korea where you can dictate what car people should drive. People have free will and will choose what car they want.

The people will also not allow proton to exist if we knew what the protectionist policies it would result in to gain favor on proton side.

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QUOTE(James Bum @ Sep 1 2014, 09:24 AM)
The other company is TCMA of course. Even though proton has already acquired miyazu's share, the mold design, technology up to production is done by miyazu... proton merely receives the parts. What proton did was outsourcing the process and production to them just like buying parts from vendors. Where's the tech transfer? The tech is still from Japan and this is like repeat of MMC days.

Vice versa Japanese taking over P2 that's how the industry works too.

I think mahathir is just being an old sour grape cos P2 has kicked proton in the nuts in terms of sales and profit. He failed to see that this is not north korea where you can dictate what car people should drive. People have free will and will choose what car they want.

The people will also not allow proton to exist if we knew what the protectionist policies it would result in to gain favor on proton side.
*
lol, protected by government. But untung goes to japanese. brows.gif

Anyway, that is the reason why they bought the company. To acquired the tech. doh.gif
SUSasynchronous
post Sep 1 2014, 09:34 AM

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Weird. I dont see this kind of noise in volkswagon 'dsg appreciation' thread. Oh wait, if dsg designed by proton oni got v2, v3
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post Sep 1 2014, 09:35 AM

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lol u guys still complaining FC
even obese old auto persona can challenge with saga for that
ar188
post Sep 1 2014, 09:38 AM

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QUOTE(ruffstuff @ Sep 1 2014, 09:05 AM)
Conventional method does not guarantee 90% part accuracy. HPF will maintain part accuracy, BIW, without need to increase metal thickness.
bodoh nia.. conventional method or not.. part accuracy and tolerance according to spec la.. if out of spec considered reject, am sure the japs can adhere to spec better than you can..
and besides thickness and such, we measure by the final product, frame that is strong, light and save fuel.. something proton hasnt learnt to do yet.
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post Sep 1 2014, 09:40 AM

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QUOTE(ruffstuff @ Sep 1 2014, 09:30 AM)
lol, protected by government. But untung goes to japanese. brows.gif

Anyway, that is the reason why they bought the company. To acquired the tech.  doh.gif
*
your brain in long kang or what? untung go to people who do work well and pay gov for tax..then u jelly

if rugi alot in local company then you happy ? biggrin.gif
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post Sep 1 2014, 09:45 AM

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QUOTE(ar188 @ Sep 1 2014, 09:40 AM)
your brain in long kang or what? untung go to people who do work well and pay gov for tax..then u jelly

if rugi alot in local company then you happy ? biggrin.gif
*
if perodua rugi also i happy. At least they try build own cars. If untung lagi happy lah. Perodua punya service baguih. Mesti untung buat kereta sendiri.
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post Sep 1 2014, 09:48 AM

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QUOTE(ruffstuff @ Sep 1 2014, 09:45 AM)
if perodua rugi also i happy. At least they try build own cars. If untung lagi happy lah. Perodua punya service baguih.  Mesti untung buat kereta sendiri.
*
why need to build own cars but only at 10k per month cos no one overseas wanna buy? hmm.gif u dont like meh if our industry like indo+thai make 2mil cars per year for export?
iconia17
post Sep 1 2014, 09:49 AM

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lel when everyone want to be salesman only. thats why its hard for malaysia to move up the value chain.

real 3rd world country mindset.

and people say our graduate is useless bla bla bla when the platform for them to achieve their potential is limited.

This post has been edited by iconia17: Sep 1 2014, 09:52 AM
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post Sep 1 2014, 09:50 AM

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QUOTE(ar188 @ Sep 1 2014, 09:48 AM)
why need to build own cars but only at 10k per month cos no one overseas wanna buy? hmm.gif  u dont like meh if our industry like indo+thai make 2mil cars per year for export?
*
no like. Build own cars i like.
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post Sep 1 2014, 09:51 AM

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QUOTE(ruffstuff @ Sep 1 2014, 09:50 AM)
no like.  Build own cars i like.
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then prepare to bleed.. even lotus cant do it..u think u can meh?
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QUOTE(ar188 @ Sep 1 2014, 09:51 AM)
then prepare to bleed.. even lotus cant do it..u think u can meh?
*
lotus build sports car lah. That is why fail. But proton build normal cars, but sales number like sports car. Proton+Lotus tech transfer.
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post Sep 1 2014, 09:53 AM

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QUOTE(ruffstuff @ Sep 1 2014, 09:52 AM)
lotus build sports car lah. That is why fail.  But proton build normal cars, but sales number like sports car. Proton+Lotus tech transfer.
*
normal cars more difficult to built la.. even lotus uses toyota engine and gearboxes..
SUSJames Bum
post Sep 1 2014, 10:04 AM

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QUOTE(ruffstuff @ Sep 1 2014, 09:30 AM)
lol, protected by government. But untung goes to japanese.  brows.gif

Anyway, that is the reason why they bought the company. To acquired the tech.  doh.gif
*
Untung goes to people who are smart, that is how business works. Those who rugi but complain well... keep on rugi la lol

Acquire the tech? Miyazu is still the one designing, maintaining and running the whole stamping production... if Proton already acquire the tech they would have done all these by themselves. In a sense P2 is also acquiring the tech from Daihatsu no? So what's the difference? P2 acquire tech from Daihatsu but let them design most of the vehicle, Proton acquire tech from Miyzau and let them do most of the jobs

P2 with annual vehicle production of about almost 200K is employing about 5K direct employees at it's manufacturing plant. If we were to have an open market like our Thai neighbors and produce about 1.5million vehicles you're looking at additional almost 40K of direct jobs just from the car companies themselves and this does not include the additional jobs created from parts suppliers/ vendors.

That's a whole lot of jobs rather than just the 10K jobs from Proton which at the same time is bleeding debt
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post Sep 1 2014, 10:10 AM

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QUOTE(James Bum @ Sep 1 2014, 10:04 AM)
Untung goes to people who are smart, that is how business works. Those who rugi but complain well... keep on rugi la lol

Acquire the tech? Miyazu is still the one designing, maintaining and running the whole stamping production... if Proton already acquire the tech they would have done all these by themselves. In a sense P2 is also acquiring the tech from Daihatsu no? So what's the difference? P2 acquire tech from Daihatsu but let them design most of the vehicle, Proton acquire tech from Miyzau and let them do most of the jobs

P2 with annual vehicle production of about almost 200K is employing about 5K direct employees at it's manufacturing plant. If we were to have an open market like our Thai neighbors and produce about 1.5million vehicles you're looking at additional almost 40K of direct jobs just from the car companies themselves and this does not include the additional jobs created from parts suppliers/ vendors.

That's a whole lot of jobs rather than just the 10K jobs from Proton which at the same time is bleeding debt
*
lol

you own the tech. You have access to the design etc. Ok lah, later all the engineer cabut, see proton can do hpf stamping or not. I think proton will start producing tin milo back. rolleyes.gif
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post Sep 1 2014, 10:11 AM

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QUOTE(ruffstuff @ Sep 1 2014, 10:10 AM)
lol 

you own the tech. You have access to the design etc.  Ok lah, later all the engineer cabut, see proton can do hpf stamping or not.  I think proton will start producing tin milo back.  rolleyes.gif
*
bodoh nia... if own the tech, worker cabuts, suddenly you forgot how to make the products anymore.. memang no ISO standard.. laugh.gif
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post Sep 1 2014, 10:12 AM

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QUOTE(ar188 @ Sep 1 2014, 10:11 AM)
bodoh nia... if own the tech, worker cabuts, suddenly you forgot how to make the products anymore.. memang no ISO standard.. laugh.gif
*
of course lah. Later proton car the only car with hpf that scored 1 star ncap.
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post Sep 1 2014, 10:14 AM

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QUOTE(ruffstuff @ Sep 1 2014, 10:10 AM)
lol 

you own the tech. You have access to the design etc.  Ok lah, later all the engineer cabut, see proton can do hpf stamping or not.  I think proton will start producing tin milo back.  rolleyes.gif
*
Proton can be profitable if they do cars that people wants i.e. Saga, Persona, Exora and if the pricing is right. Not sure about PCC yet... if under 40K it should do well if above that it will be difficult

Proton shouldn't do cars that can't sell just so they could thump their chest to show how advanced their cars is... Preve, Suprima, Neo all these should have been out.
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post Sep 1 2014, 10:15 AM

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And owning the tech can only get you to some point... you need to advance the tech so we'll see if Proton capitalize from this newly acquired tech
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post Sep 1 2014, 12:17 PM

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QUOTE(ruffstuff @ Sep 1 2014, 09:05 AM)
Conventional method does not guarantee 90% part accuracy. HPF will maintain part accuracy, BIW, without need to increase metal thickness.
*
QUOTE(ruffstuff @ Sep 1 2014, 10:10 AM)
lol 

you own the tech. You have access to the design etc.  Ok lah, later all the engineer cabut, see proton can do hpf stamping or not.  I think proton will start producing tin milo back.  rolleyes.gif
*
QUOTE(ruffstuff @ Sep 1 2014, 10:12 AM)
of course lah. Later proton car the only car with hpf that scored 1 star ncap.
*
Seriously, u better stop posting.. U really sounds like a retarded guy with those comment (or on a softer side, like a tin kosong)..


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post Sep 1 2014, 12:25 PM

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QUOTE(ry8128 @ Sep 1 2014, 12:17 PM)
Seriously, u better stop posting.. U really sounds like a retarded guy with those comment (or on a softer side, like a tin kosong)..
*
tin kosong with hpf method thumbup.gif
MjMax15
post Sep 1 2014, 12:26 PM

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when this car launch?
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post Sep 1 2014, 12:45 PM

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QUOTE(ruffstuff @ Aug 28 2014, 11:45 AM)
hot press forming metal.  I think only few countries has this factory. And proton have one.
*
Hot press forming is a cheaper method of production. Cold forming is better in terms overall strength since you dont change the molecular structure of the metal unlike hot forming.
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QUOTE(ar188 @ Sep 1 2014, 10:11 AM)
bodoh nia... if own the tech, worker cabuts, suddenly you forgot how to make the products anymore.. memang no ISO standard.. laugh.gif
*
Alot of companies konon have ISO standards, but its just a front since all companies what to be certified and recognized as ISO compliant to either meet regulatory requirements or meet customers requirements or expectations.

Alot of them dont actually follow the ISO standards put forth closely, when it comes to audit time, they will try to cover what the audit covers and no more.
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post Sep 1 2014, 01:38 PM

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Protong cars nowadays quality consider ok, compare to perodua or even some honda/toyota thing like vios and city and etc milo tin. But the design in both looks and performance are at least 4 generations behind.
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post Sep 1 2014, 03:10 PM

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QUOTE(crapp0 @ Sep 1 2014, 12:49 PM)
Alot of companies konon have ISO standards, but its just a front since all companies what to be certified and recognized as ISO compliant to either meet regulatory requirements or meet customers requirements or expectations.

Alot of them dont actually follow the ISO standards put forth closely, when it comes to audit time, they will try to cover what the audit covers and no more.
*
so whats the issue, cover ngam ngam to fulfill the audit means the ISO still in place la..
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QUOTE(ar188 @ Sep 1 2014, 03:10 PM)
so whats the issue, cover ngam ngam to fulfill the audit means the ISO still in place la..
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ISO is actually your own commitment to quality and excellence. Even if you meet the audits findings, the poor quality is reflected in your work everyday, or your products...
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QUOTE(crapp0 @ Sep 1 2014, 03:12 PM)
ISO is actually your own commitment to quality and excellence. Even if you meet the audits findings, the poor quality is reflected in your work everyday, or your products...
*
nah.. here is the quote, if you dont understand the requirement, there is nothing else to explain.
low end product also can have ISO, while it doesnt mean, if meet already will become high end excellent product

QUOTE
The ISO 9000 family of quality management systems standards is designed to help organizations ensure that they meet the needs of customers and other stakeholders while meeting statutory and regulatory requirements related to a product.


This post has been edited by ar188: Sep 1 2014, 03:17 PM
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post Sep 1 2014, 04:05 PM

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QUOTE(ar188 @ Sep 1 2014, 03:17 PM)
nah.. here is the quote, if you dont understand the requirement, there is nothing else to explain.
low end product also can have ISO, while it doesnt mean, if meet already will become high end excellent product
*
Im not talking necessarily about items but also on companies which according to their company policy will only do business with other companies which are ISO compliant.

Say i meet ISO standards 9001:2008, that relates to QMS but it doesnt necesarily apply directly to my products, just my organization.

If you want excellent products, choose companies which are certified six sigma which have a product defective percentage of 0.00034% in their products.

Most likely proton ISO audits are "Ali baba" style.

This post has been edited by crapp0: Sep 1 2014, 04:06 PM
SUSJames Bum
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QUOTE(crapp0 @ Sep 1 2014, 04:05 PM)
Im not talking necessarily about items but also on companies which according to their company policy will only do business with other companies which are ISO compliant.

Say i meet ISO standards 9001:2008, that relates to QMS but it doesnt necesarily apply directly to my products, just my organization.

If you want excellent products, choose companies which are certified six sigma which have a product defective percentage of 0.00034% in their products.

Most likely proton ISO audits are "Ali baba" style.
*
Car manufacturers prefer to use TS16949
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post Sep 1 2014, 04:20 PM

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QUOTE(James Bum @ Sep 1 2014, 04:13 PM)
Car manufacturers prefer to use TS16949
*
If malaysia follow ISO/TS16949. Why is it korean or japanese which most likely follow the same standards produce better made cars than malaysia?

something must have gotten wrong along the way.

This post has been edited by crapp0: Sep 1 2014, 04:20 PM
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post Sep 1 2014, 04:25 PM

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QUOTE(crapp0 @ Sep 1 2014, 04:05 PM)
Im not talking necessarily about items but also on companies which according to their company policy will only do business with other companies which are ISO compliant.

Say i meet ISO standards 9001:2008, that relates to QMS but it doesnt necesarily apply directly to my products, just my organization.

If you want excellent products, choose companies which are certified six sigma which have a product defective percentage of 0.00034% in their products.

Most likely proton ISO audits are "Ali baba" style.
*
can you name which several six sigma automotive manufacturer which seems to have very low defective products??
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QUOTE(ruffstuff @ Sep 1 2014, 12:25 PM)
tin kosong with hpf method  thumbup.gif
*
I'm not familiar with HPF method but with advances in material, tool and dies, machines, tool coatings, forming process simulation and etc cold forming also has its advantage.

Material wise though Japanese companies doesn't use HPF method (not that I'm aware of) they have started to shift away from 440Mpa steel to higher tensile but thinner 590Mpa, 780Mpa and beyond (I have to check with Nippon Steel & Sumitomo Metal, I heard they are making 900++ and 1000++ Mpa steel). Some are also experimenting with dual phase material (high tensile with high elongation to achieve high fatigue life)

Tool materials and coatings, advances has enable cold forming press to use more exotic materials that was previously unavailable... high speed steel up to HRC65, tungsten carbide etc. and coatings such as TiCN and TiAlN or even diamond coatings has enabled pressing out very high tensile and high abrasion material

Forming process simulation I've seen Posco in Korea (Proton's major steel supplier) is starting hidro forming which unlike both cold forming and HPF introduces very little residual stress onto material after forming and able to form complex shapes.

Forming process simulations the Japanese are now doing flow forming which is to form a uniform thickness sheet metal into a part with various degree of thickness. The material thickness could be altered during forming so that desired area with high loading has more material thickness while other areas that are not critical can be made thinner.

Another tech which I can't remember the name is joining 2 materials with different thickness via seam welding before press forming. It is kinda like flow forming except the material has already been "prepared" before forming process rather than during the actual process
SUSeuthanasia
post Sep 1 2014, 04:34 PM

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I own an Exora. I had my fare share of Proton criticism. But the Exora Bold is the best handling MPV money can buy. It handles like a gem. Only downside is of course the 1.6T engine which guzzles petrol like no tomorrow. But not so much worse than say 308 1.6T which i owned before this. Bought the car, soundproof it and wahlah, an Estima contender. My 2 sens.
SUSJames Bum
post Sep 1 2014, 04:39 PM

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QUOTE(crapp0 @ Sep 1 2014, 04:20 PM)
If malaysia follow ISO/TS16949. Why is it korean or japanese which most likely follow the same standards produce better made cars than malaysia?

something must have gotten wrong along the way.
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Most Japanese car manufacturers don't strictly follow TS16949, they have their own sets of development procedures. Of course most of these development procedures overlap or has common elements with 16949.

Actually it's not the standard's problem... the standard is meant to be a guideline. It is up to car manufacturers themselves to set the bar high. I give you a real life example:

When developing a part, vendors are given a spec drawing or design requirements and we must design the parts to fulfill all the items in that requirement.

Proton: Spec requirement is only 1 or 2 pages

Japanese car makers: Spec is 20 pages

You see, I will fullfill both TS16949 requirements during audit by fulfilling all requirements from customers. Since Proton's requirement is not that much I could fulfill them easier. It doesnt mean the oart is not good or no quality it's just less refined than it's japanese counterpart.... for example it maybe heavier
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post Sep 1 2014, 04:41 PM

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QUOTE(euthanasia @ Sep 1 2014, 04:34 PM)
I own an Exora. I had my fare share of Proton criticism. But the Exora Bold is the best handling MPV money can buy. It handles like a gem. Only downside is of course the 1.6T engine which guzzles petrol like no tomorrow. But not so much worse than say 308 1.6T which i owned before this. Bought the car, soundproof it and wahlah, an Estima contender. My 2 sens.
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I think it's a good car too. IMHO Proton can make cars but most importantly they should focus on making sellable cars such as Exora, Saga and Persona
crapp0
post Sep 1 2014, 05:07 PM

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QUOTE(ar188 @ Sep 1 2014, 04:25 PM)
can you name which several six sigma automotive manufacturer which seems to have very low defective products??
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They should strive to be better than the current situation, sometimes its not the destination but the journey which is more important.
crapp0
post Sep 1 2014, 05:09 PM

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QUOTE(James Bum @ Sep 1 2014, 04:41 PM)
I think it's a good car too. IMHO Proton can make cars but most importantly they should focus on making sellable cars such as Exora, Saga and Persona
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They can make sellable cars by rehashing the same basic model over and over again like they did with the old saga.
krizalid88
post Sep 1 2014, 05:10 PM

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QUOTE(crapp0 @ Sep 1 2014, 04:05 PM)
Im not talking necessarily about items but also on companies which according to their company policy will only do business with other companies which are ISO compliant.

Say i meet ISO standards 9001:2008, that relates to QMS but it doesnt necesarily apply directly to my products, just my organization.

If you want excellent products, choose companies which are certified six sigma which have a product defective percentage of 0.00034% in their products.

Most likely proton ISO audits are "Ali baba" style.
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six sigma is not suitable for low production volume & SME.. plus it's too complicated & require large manpower to manage. that's why most of the OEMs prefer 3 sigma (even with 3 sigma oso they hard to achieve) or what people call it as toyota production system/lean production system. like toyota they have toyota production system/TPS, perodua with lean production system, proton/HICOM with HICOM manufacturing system/HMS..

bear in mind, proton did not do the audit.. it was done by the certification body like KIWA, TUV etc

QUOTE(James Bum @ Sep 1 2014, 04:13 PM)
Car manufacturers prefer to use TS16949
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actually NOT a car manufacturers.. it's actually vendors that must comply with ISO/TS especially tier 1 while tier 2 is not compulsory to comply. enough with iso 9001 only.

QUOTE(crapp0 @ Sep 1 2014, 04:20 PM)
If malaysia follow ISO/TS16949. Why is it korean or japanese which most likely follow the same standards produce better made cars than malaysia?

something must have gotten wrong along the way.
*
japanese mostly never force their vendor to comply with ISO/TS.. they have their own standard like Japanese Standard/JS or like germany they prefer vendor with VDA 6.3 (process) and 6.5 (product) which are likely above ISO/TS standard.. different OEMs have their own standard to follow. ISO/TS is just an international global standard for all automotive vendors.

This post has been edited by krizalid88: Sep 1 2014, 05:13 PM
crapp0
post Sep 1 2014, 05:15 PM

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QUOTE(krizalid88 @ Sep 1 2014, 05:10 PM)
six sigma is not suitable for low production volume & SME.. plus it's too complicated & require large manpower to manage. that's why most of the OEMs prefer 3 sigma (even with 3 sigma oso they hard to achieve) or what people call it as toyota production system/lean production system. like toyota they have toyota production system/TPS, perodua with lean production system, proton/HICOM with HICOM manufacturing system/HMS..
actually NOT a car manufacturers.. it's actually vendors that must comply with ISO/TS especially tier 1 while tier 2 is not compulsory to comply. enough with iso 9001 only.
japanese mostly never force their vendor to comply with ISO/TS.. they have their own standard like Japanese Standard/JS or like germany they prefer vendor with VDA 6.3 (process) and 6.5 (product) which are likely above ISO/TS standard.. different OEMs have their own standard to follow. ISO/TS is just an international global standard for all automotive vendors.
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Thx for the info.

Maybe you could anwer why is the fit and finish as well as the quality of materials in the cabin of proton cars usually feel as if their made with cheap materials.

Could it be proton finds the lowest bidder for their components and awards them to the OEM contracts without ensuring some form of quality or standard is met?
krizalid88
post Sep 1 2014, 05:23 PM

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QUOTE(crapp0 @ Sep 1 2014, 05:15 PM)
Thx for the info.

Maybe you could anwer why is the fit and finish as well as the quality of materials in the cabin of proton cars usually feel as if their made with cheap materials.

Could it be proton finds the lowest bidder for their components and awards them to the OEM contracts without ensuring some form of quality or standard is met?
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U know that the amount allowed for vendor to cover Sales, General, Administration (SGA), Profit & Materials Handling for each part they produce for proton is only 2.5% of the Total Part Price..?

But for other OEMs like Perodua, Toyota or Honda, the amount is between 11% & 12.3% of the Total Part Price..?

how to survive with 2.5%?

so now u know why every car produced by different OEMs has different quality even though produced by the same vendors.

This post has been edited by krizalid88: Sep 1 2014, 05:23 PM
SUSJames Bum
post Sep 1 2014, 05:33 PM

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QUOTE(krizalid88 @ Sep 1 2014, 05:10 PM)
six sigma is not suitable for low production volume & SME.. plus it's too complicated & require large manpower to manage. that's why most of the OEMs prefer 3 sigma (even with 3 sigma oso they hard to achieve) or what people call it as toyota production system/lean production system. like toyota they have toyota production system/TPS, perodua with lean production system, proton/HICOM with HICOM manufacturing system/HMS..

bear in mind, proton did not do the audit.. it was done by the certification body like KIWA, TUV etc
actually NOT a car manufacturers.. it's actually vendors that must comply with ISO/TS especially tier 1 while tier 2 is not compulsory to comply. enough with iso 9001 only.
japanese mostly never force their vendor to comply with ISO/TS.. they have their own standard like Japanese Standard/JS or like germany they prefer vendor with VDA 6.3 (process) and 6.5 (product) which are likely above ISO/TS standard.. different OEMs have their own standard to follow. ISO/TS is just an international global standard for all automotive vendors.
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I meant to type car manufacturers prefer vendors to have TS accreditation... just didn't type out all due to view on phone

Proton do audit vendors it's just not as comprehensive as ISO/TS cert. body... they do a yearly MPA audit

This post has been edited by James Bum: Sep 1 2014, 05:35 PM
crapp0
post Sep 1 2014, 05:34 PM

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QUOTE(krizalid88 @ Sep 1 2014, 05:23 PM)
U know that the amount allowed for vendor to cover Sales, General, Administration (SGA), Profit & Materials Handling for each part they produce for proton is only 2.5% of the Total Part Price..?

But for other OEMs like Perodua, Toyota or Honda, the amount is between 11% & 12.3% of the Total Part Price..?

how to survive with 2.5%?

so now u know why every car produced by different OEMs has different quality even though produced by the same vendors.
*
And yet they still want to manufacture for proton. Not good for company reputation and they earn less on every component.

The question now is, why bother?
krizalid88
post Sep 1 2014, 05:36 PM

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QUOTE(crapp0 @ Sep 1 2014, 05:34 PM)
And yet they still want to manufacture for proton. Not good for company reputation and they earn less on every component.

The question now is, why bother?
*
u as a businessman still want to sell your products eventhough profit margin very low to keep ur reputation rite? u want people see ur company no customer?
SUSJames Bum
post Sep 1 2014, 05:37 PM

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QUOTE(crapp0 @ Sep 1 2014, 05:34 PM)
And yet they still want to manufacture for proton. Not good for company reputation and they earn less on every component.

The question now is, why bother?
*
Certain Proton models have volume... such as the Saga... and some of the parts are carry over from previous models which can be used for newer models hence vendors save on R&D costs, tool costs etc. Saga with it's large volume is quite good even if margin is less
crapp0
post Sep 1 2014, 05:41 PM

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QUOTE(krizalid88 @ Sep 1 2014, 05:36 PM)
u as a businessman still want to sell your products eventhough profit margin very low to keep ur reputation rite? u want people see ur company no customer?
*
My previous company used to think like that, even if margins are low, unwilling to switch, most likely due to being complacent and fear of losing ones reputation.

But now things are on the uptrend since my former colleague told me that management decided to push into new markets and let go of old contacts in order to forge new relations with bigger clients who have deeper pockets, it wasnt easy but they managed to pull it off.
SUSeuthanasia
post Sep 1 2014, 07:21 PM

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QUOTE(James Bum @ Sep 1 2014, 04:41 PM)
I think it's a good car too. IMHO Proton can make cars but most importantly they should focus on making sellable cars such as Exora, Saga and Persona
*
Too bad they had lousy vendors for their interior parts. Good news for the Iriz, they sacked alot last minute and change. Hopefully we getting soft touch for the dash. High time.
SUSJames Bum
post Sep 1 2014, 08:23 PM

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QUOTE(euthanasia @ Sep 1 2014, 07:21 PM)
Too bad they had lousy vendors for their interior parts. Good news for the Iriz, they sacked alot last minute and change. Hopefully we getting soft touch for the dash. High time.
*
Making changes last minute is kind of a no-no for new car development. Has the new parts gone through the necessary testings and buy-off? I hope the first batch won't be test rats

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