The trend would also be crazy coding interview tests that everyone must do regardless of experience.


Interview process has gone down the drain nowadays and your portfolio/experience are no longer important to many of these companies.

Everyone gets lumped into fresh grad category. Every tom d*** harry company thinks they're the next google/facebook/microsoft so they copy their hiring routines.


Then they complain why they cannot find anyone at all.

I cant agree more with you... You are totally damned right. I have a skill, I
have an experience, I can talk about on how I developed my previous things
using what kind of technology and programming language, even communicate
in excellent way... But still, during interview they will ask you about CSS
and array... Dear God.

-- Mohammad Shahrul --

Unless your portfolio and experience consists of open source code, it doesn't tell me whether you can code because I haven't actually seen that code.

For all I know, you could be really good at talking and debating about code, but can't actually do it. A coding test removes this doubt.

CD portfolio or even open source code is not enough. They claim that you could've taken it from other people.


The problem with coding tests is they test things that you have not used since uni or college and these tests are done on the white board, no PC.

That's why such hiring practices are sorely broken.

If an interviewer cannot properly tell then obviously they are not good enough to do proper hiring.

This post has been edited by RiddleMeThat: Aug 16 2014, 07:18 PM

Before i hire people base on how they talk...
Good programmer shy ..not talk much.
Bad programmmer talk a lot how he.she achive and respect and said all people depend on him.if not company fail bungkus
Code monkey programmmer talk how thix x framework y framework
*** other people might hired diffirent way

Famous q fabonoci ??? Wtf is that if write in paper i dono. I just knew business logic and how it implement in the system

trust me, its seriously easy to tell if the person had taken code from somebody else and claimed it on their own when you question them on the work that they show to you.

The problem is when the interviewer don't even bother to test you on your own code and insist you do their parlor tricks on the whiteboard or paper and other cs stuff you forgotten after leaving uni for over 10 years.

They all want the easy way out then complain they can't find good programmers.

Every company wants or thinks they're the next google/facebook/twitter and copy these company's hiring methods.

I always read about companies complaining about our grads and programmers in Malaysia but I never see a proper counter article to these companies claims.

It's always one sided in the news.

But to be honest, most of the stuff required by companies are actually not taught in schools/uni (node.js, ruby on rails etc). Those who put some time to learn those new technologies are usually hardcore that learn by using materials online (stackoverflow, github, bitbucket etc).

In this case, is it fair to say 'good artist copy, great artist steal'? - it's okay to learn from other people's code, and then improve on it?

At any point, how to prove one's worth? Not everyone is a genius.

well as far as I'm concerned, if its the company's own interview process that's having issues, then its their own loss after all.

but from what I've seen, most of the complaints has been about the fresh grads, of which far less than 10 years has passed since they last looked at the CS stuff in uni. not about people who had left uni for over 10 years.

besides, you should at least remember the more important CS stuff that you've learnt anyways.

RiddleMeThat, u are totally wrong, those cs algorithm tasks needed to get tested on the spot, to identify the candidate how good their problem solving skill and logic is. those cs stuffs and algorithm logic are extremely important in business world.
you can code this and create this, it doesn't mean u can solve some problems.
RiddleMeThat, i guess u are quite comfort on what u doing? not much challenging tasks been given in your job?

try interview at Jobstreet, see whether u can pass their test, all written in paper and explain how it works to interviewer and tell them why this way is better and faster on the spot.

It depends... if you are testing someone's rote memorization, yeah you could a question like "write me an A* search on the board".

The approach I take to the code test is to give the candidate a fresh Ubuntu laptop and a paragraph describing the problem (in plain english) and examples. He is allowed to install whatever he wants, refer to any material, and code in any language, limited to 1 hour.

What I'm testing is whether he can: 1) understand the problem, 2) write code, 3) solve the problem.

The problem with people like you is you've never been on the end trying to hire people and lack the experience to evaluate candidates based on other factors and not hardcore technical skills. If you cannot smell bs without a coding test, you're unfit to be an interviewer, period.

I've coded much more complicated routines than ever needed in apps. I've done all those data structures and I find they're not really needed in many of the stuff we do nowadays unless you're doing OS level stuff like SQL server engines, writing OS, compilers, image manipulation software, or even develop games which I used to do. Heck, I don't even bother to remember off the hat code worth over 5 years ago I did last time unless I go back to refresh all those linked list, stacks and others I implemented for a game.

My most challenging code recently deal with queues, stacks and recursion and even that I don't bother to memorize what I did. It's a game related mobile project, but less challenging than my x86 assembly code project 10 years ago.

If I were much younger I would probably use these tests when looking for candidates in such field but I realized I am arrogant and unrealistic to do so, causing me to miss out way too many more competent candidates than necessary to fill the tasks at hand.

I realized that most interviewers who use irrelevant interviewing techniques..

1. Lack understanding of the position hiring for.

2. Has some sort of ego/insecurity/inferiority complex issues that they need to project/bully candidates.

3. Are put in as a shortcut way to get programmers which they could work with instead of what's good for the whole team, maybe because they're so sick of interviewing candidates they just use tests instead of actually talking to every one of them instead.


Never ever put a pure technical/programmer to interview candidates. They're more likely to have extreme bias purely based on that area only and because of their lack of business acumen, people soft skills and foresight, they will not be able to identify the best fit candidate. Fear of competition is also a reason why a programmer may deliberately reject someone better than them for promotion competition so they might deliberately pass on the better candidate.

When my ex-boss forced me to interview all potential candidates, I never make them do coding tests because it was unnecessary. I can easily spot their ability asking them to explain things or data structures. I don't like wasting time making them write code because that environment is not the same as actual working environment.

But i'll always give priority to those who can show me what they did before instead of those who expect me to view their grades.

Coding tests waste their time and my time. I don't even need those to evaluate fresh grads.

Note: I split this discussion thread from the one asking about trends in programming languages.

Usually, I did pass the programming, SQL, iq test. But then, I never pass the HR. I wonder what HR really wants. I guess my attitude is a problem. haha. So far the coding tests are ok. It's not too deep ( no linked list, heap/stack ). To have a hard coding test ( like Google, Facebook ) is ok too, if only your company does need that kind of implementation. Even Google has improved their interview/coding test, so I guess it depends on what kind of company are we talking about

p/s: I'm still jobless. lol

my coding test is on how to improve search in database using algorithm...
pure plain algorithm that execute below 0.2 ms


yeah, im talking on big o notation shit that pass on algorithm with sorting improvement...

I'm fine with coding tests. If couldn't code the problem they gave me, then I know what I'm lacking in. It's a good thing, since I studied programming myself.

I agree with your 1) and 2) but mind you, these issues are not limited to just technical people.

It largely boils down to the organisation culture and how the managers handle such cases as well, that causes the extreme bias that you mentioned.

I've seen an organisation where they had failed to get any vendors to get involved in a project they're wanting to do as the managers reacted in quite an allergic manner when told that the overall architecture of what they're wanting to do simply won't work, so decided to hire their own in house developers for it. its been a few years but yet still failed to hire anybody for it till now because:
- fresh graduates do not have what they expect
- the more experienced people will just take a look at the job ad and can tell that its going to be hell and therefore won't apply

I guess you guys have more software development experience than me. Anyway, I would like share my humble opinion.

RiddleMeThat and wKkaY have their standpoint.

Before interview session, an interviewer should have a clear mind of candidates' requirements. If I were interviewer, I would evaluate candidates in 3 ways:

1. I give them a complex problem. I would like to see how candidates view, analyse, and solve a problem. The solution can be done in any form (explanation, pseudocode, coding).

2. The candidates with a few years of programming experience suppose to have deep understanding in a least one server side scripting language and a few client side scripting/markup languages (web dev for example). I would give them a test to solve a simple problem within a timeline. Candidates are allowed to write in any programming languages. I would like to see how they implement a solution. Design pattern, algorithm and efficiency of their code are evaluated.

3. I would have a chat with candidates' about their daily routines, hobbies, etc. I would like to work together with people who always see the bright side even facing critical problem in tight timeline. Great people is optimistic and "bright".

My interview approach looks like a lot of "steps". The hiring process is crucial because every people (every role) in a team plays important role especially your goal is to develop really great stuffs. You know what I mean.

My thought might be wrong. Any suggestions are welcome! Thank you for your time.

How crazy? Implement a facebook clone in an interview and expected salary 2k?


>>Interview process has gone down the drain nowadays and your portfolio/experience are no longer important to many of these companies.
Seen before candidates with portfolio/'experience' as thick as an encyclopedia and code with 100% global variables?



This post has been edited by dstl1128: Aug 18 2014, 10:46 AM